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View Full Version : What if someone started an Armored Car Company to sell Large Capacity Magazines?


lowracer
02-06-2009, 1:14 PM
What I can't figure is why someone hasn't started up an Armored Car Company expressly for the purpose of selling large capacity mags in CA?

Roll those armored cars stuffed to the gills with large capacity mags up to every gun show. Roll the armored cars to the bank afterwards, loaded with cash.

You could stop at grocery stores and other shops on the way to the bank and help them with transporting their money to the bank as well.

But you'd make most of your money selling large capacity mags, legally.

12020 (a) Any person in this state who does any of the following is punishable by imprisonment in a county jail not exceeding one year or in the state prison:
(2) Commencing January 1, 2000, manufactures or causes to be manufactured, imports into the state, keeps for sale, or offers or exposes for sale, or who gives, or lends, any large-capacity magazine.
(b) Subdivision (a) does not apply to any of the following:
(27) The sale of, giving of, lending of, importation into this state of, or purchase of, any large-capacity magazine, to or by entities that operate armored vehicle businesses pursuant to the laws of this state.

sintax
02-06-2009, 1:17 PM
did you forget its illegal to sell standard cap mags in CA?

Cypren
02-06-2009, 1:20 PM
Two words: legal fees.

The state would immediately prosecute for a huge list of felonies (every mag you sold would be one, plus they'd tack on fraud, conspiracy, and a bunch of other charges) and in the unlikely event that they lost at trial, they would appeal all the way to the Supreme Court if necessary, costing you hundreds of thousands of dollars while sitting in jail for a protracted legal battle. And there's a pretty good chance the courts would rule in their favor, saying that despite the fact that the law says you can sell them, the clear intent was that they were not to be sold to civilians.

4thSeal
02-06-2009, 1:20 PM
It is not illegal for armored car companies to sell high capacity magazines...

least that is what I had read somewhere...

ke6guj
02-06-2009, 1:26 PM
who knows, if Nordyke doesn't pan out, we might just find out.

DedEye
02-06-2009, 1:28 PM
did you forget its illegal to sell standard cap mags in CA?

Not for an armored car company.

What I can't figure is why someone hasn't started up an Armored Car Company expressly for the purpose of selling large capacity mags in CA?

Roll those armored cars stuffed to the gills with large capacity mags up to every gun show. Roll the armored cars to the bank afterwards, loaded with cash.

You could stop at grocery stores and other shops on the way to the bank and help them with transporting their money to the bank as well.

But you'd make most of your money selling large capacity mags, legally.

The armored car company has to be an actual, operating armored car company.

Give it two weeks.

SwissFluCase
02-06-2009, 1:36 PM
What I can't figure is why someone hasn't started up an Armored Car Company expressly for the purpose of selling large capacity mags in CA?

Roll those armored cars stuffed to the gills with large capacity mags up to every gun show. Roll the armored cars to the bank afterwards, loaded with cash.

You could stop at grocery stores and other shops on the way to the bank and help them with transporting their money to the bank as well.

But you'd make most of your money selling large capacity mags, legally.

Will the armored car play a little jingle as it rolls down the street, and have a clown on top?


"Oooh! Oooh! Oooh! The Mag Man is coming!"

Regards,


SwissFluCase

rayra
02-06-2009, 1:37 PM
what are you, kids? Just who do you imagine they'd be selling to? Not the private retail market, that's illegal in this state.
Their only legit customers would be govt / LEO.

ke6guj
02-06-2009, 1:41 PM
No, the point of the armored car business is that the PC does not appear to limit Large Capacity Magazine sales to/from an armored car company. If that is the case, then they would be able to sell to the public.

7x57
02-06-2009, 1:41 PM
All the Right People seem to think this is not worth it because Nordyke is likely to not only fix the problem for real, but be faster and so on. But....

Supposing this was done, I am quite sure that selling them like ice-cream off a truck is exactly the way to get a judge to interpret away the letter of the law. Instead of being over-eager gunnies, these things always seem to go step-by-step. Let me try to think of a way:

First, create your company, and operate it just like all the other companies for a while. Establish a track record of being a legitimate, profitable business.

Then sell hi-caps to LEO's. This isn't so likely to raise eyebrows, but you're establishing that you can do this as part of your business.

Then, perhaps sell hi-cap mags to your employees. That is obviously business related, and you're selling them instead of having them use company mags to save money. Establish that this is within the law.

Then perhaps sell to employees of the companies you do business with. I'm not sure if ordinary security guards can get them other ways, but if not sell to them. Or sell to jewelers; they are presumably *not* under any exemption, but could arguably need them. Note that these are in some way related to your business; you are offering an additional service, a value-add, and doing so to people who can use them. You could even insist they have a CCW so as to mollify DAs who may accept a need that the local Sheriff recognizes in another way. Again, establish this as a legitimate and legal activity.

And so on, until you have solid legal precedent before selling to a random civilian.

Now, assuming such a thing works, how long is it going to take? Quite a while? Maybe better to wait for Nordyke and challenge directly, huh?

I assume that is why the Right People are not trying this avenue yet, so far as I know.

7x57

ke6guj
02-06-2009, 1:43 PM
Right, everything I've heard is tht they are waiting for other stuff like Nordyke to get ruled on, and if in the end, the large cap mag ban is not lifted, then Operation Armored Car Magazine Sales goes into effect. :D

DedEye
02-06-2009, 1:44 PM
what are you, kids? Just who do you imagine they'd be selling to? Not the private retail market, that's illegal in this state.
Their only legit customers would be govt / LEO.

Reading is fundamental.

sorensen440
02-06-2009, 1:45 PM
what are you, kids? Just who do you imagine they'd be selling to? Not the private retail market, that's illegal in this state.
Their only legit customers would be govt / LEO.
That's incorrect
If you re-read the law they are exempt from the buying and the selling period.
It is what they call a loophole :D

SwissFluCase
02-06-2009, 1:48 PM
Supposing this was done, I am quite sure that selling them like ice-cream off a truck is exactly the way to get a judge to interpret away the letter of the law. Instead of being over-eager gunnies, these things always seem to go step-by-step.

Yes I know... Though I don't think a judge would be able to shut it down, you can bet the legistature would jump on it. The media would scream "loophole!".

However, I just couldn't resist the visual.

Regards,


SwissFluCase

sorensen440
02-06-2009, 1:52 PM
Yes I know... Though I don't think a judge would be able to shut it down, you can bet the legistature would jump on it. The media would scream "loophole!".

However, I just couldn't resist the visual.

Regards,


SwissFluCase
Its possible that the loophole might get closed but not before we could load up the new generation with 10+ rnd magazines

B.D.Dubloon
02-06-2009, 1:53 PM
Good luck, but I don't think that loophole would be big enough to fit through.

That's incorrect
If you re-read the law they are exempt from the buying and the selling period.
It is what they call a loophole :D

gunn
02-06-2009, 1:54 PM
FWIW, the cheapest armored delivery vehicle (vs. armord pimptastic escalade) I could find on the internet was for $23K.

http://www.securityprousa.com/armoredgmcvan.html
Armored GMC Van
$23,900.00

Legal issues aside, that's a lot of mags to sell in order to make up that cash.
From what I've read, the first step after convincing yourself that this is a good idea, you will need to convince the California Highway Patrol and Public Utilities Commission to give you a license.

Good luck with that.
-g

elSquid
02-06-2009, 2:02 PM
Legal issues aside, that's a lot of mags to sell in order to make up that cash.

If the company sold at twice normal MSRP they'd have a pretty decent margin. I'd happily pay that price, and I could see myself spending 1 to 2K on magazines.

-- Michael

mvpatriot
02-06-2009, 2:03 PM
what are you, kids? Just who do you imagine they'd be selling to? Not the private retail market, that's illegal in this state.
Their only legit customers would be govt / LEO.

Thats classic :eek: Please read the PC before dishing out intended insults.

DedEye
02-06-2009, 2:04 PM
I've added an excerpt from the penal code to my original post. The operative verbiage (please note: I am not a lawyer) seems to be:

Yeah, it's been discussed a lot.

SwissFluCase
02-06-2009, 2:06 PM
Yeah, it's been discussed a lot.

So, ummm... any plans to become, oh, I don't know... The Bad Humor Man? :reddevil:

Regards,


SwissFluCase

mvpatriot
02-06-2009, 2:09 PM
Bad Humor Man.... hahaha kinda reminds of Cheech and Chongs Nice Dreams but with hicaps! :43:

gn3hz3ku1*
02-06-2009, 2:11 PM
then can i start a LLC to purchse these mags from this armored car company then pass ownership of the LLC to my family?

sorensen440
02-06-2009, 2:22 PM
Good luck, but I don't think that loophole would be big enough to fit through.
Have you read it ?
Its pretty clear that armored cars are exempt from buying as well as selling

DedEye
02-06-2009, 2:27 PM
So, ummm... any plans to become, oh, I don't know... The Bad Humor Man? :reddevil:

Regards,


SwissFluCase

Like I said, give it two weeks.

wash
02-06-2009, 2:43 PM
Why buy an armored car?

I would do an Animal House and make a replica "death car".

All you need is a beat up 1965 Lincoln Continental, some plate steel and spray paint.

hoffmang
02-06-2009, 2:45 PM
If you employ the search function you will find that the entirety of using an armored car to sell large-capacity magazines (even equipped with the ice cream truck music) has been fully hashed out.

The law says that armored vehicle businesses can sell large-capacity magazines to anyone.

-Gene

bwiese
02-06-2009, 2:45 PM
It's doable but may not be necessary (and thus wasted resources).

Do remember that the armored car service should be a fully licensed, legit biz w/real armored cars, legit non-magazine customers. and staffed by folks with current guard cards.

Nevertheless, if we do do it I have promised to provide a bell from an ice cream truck for the armored car(s).

And it would probably be the first-ever armored car service with lawyers in the passenger seats.

DarkHorse
02-06-2009, 2:51 PM
FWIW, the cheapest armored delivery vehicle (vs. armord pimptastic escalade) I could find on the internet was for $23K.

http://www.securityprousa.com/armoredgmcvan.html
Armored GMC Van
$23,900.00

Legal issues aside, that's a lot of mags to sell in order to make up that cash.
From what I've read, the first step after convincing yourself that this is a good idea, you will need to convince the California Highway Patrol and Public Utilities Commission to give you a license.

Good luck with that.
-g

If you ran a legitimate armored car company, I think you could make up $23K quickly enough to not be a factor. The selling of standard-cap mags would simply be another service which your company would provide. You wouldn't necessarily have to sell the mags out of the back of the AC, although that would be fun to watch. Theoretically speaking, of course.:D

woodey
02-06-2009, 2:53 PM
It might be easyer looking for an armered car service on the brink of bankrupcy. Have him start a side line business.

SwissFluCase
02-06-2009, 2:56 PM
Now this is why I like this board. Hack that law like a pimply faced youth hacks a computer!

I'll buy from the Bad Humor Man, and I'll put some money up for the defense.

Regards,


SwissFluCase

dustoff31
02-06-2009, 3:50 PM
Fun to think about, but financially unfeasable to set up a legit, fully licensed, bonded, and insured company to sell magazines.

Besides, how long do you think it would take the bozos in Sac to amend the law? A couple of days maybe? Remember, it would be something they want to do.

jaymz
02-06-2009, 4:01 PM
23 grand? That's all? Heck, if every Calguns member (over 21k last I looked) gave a buck and some change, we'd be there!:D

Ford8N
02-06-2009, 4:10 PM
What was the reasoning to just allow armored car companies to sell hi cap magazines? Was this some political give and take?

aplinker
02-06-2009, 4:10 PM
23 grand? That's all? Heck, if every Calguns member (over 21k last I looked) gave a buck and some change, we'd be there!:D

You don't need to "buy," just lease it for as long as needed.

There are additional costs, as well. The biggest would be lawyers and payroll for real guards.

Other complications include running it as a legit armored car service.

It's not as easy as proposed. I remember making this pic about 2yrs ago...
http://i187.photobucket.com/albums/x82/uclaplinker/hi-cap-scream-truck.jpg

kermit
02-06-2009, 4:28 PM
I didn't see the phrase "armored vehicle businesses pursuant to the laws
of this state" defined. Everyone assumes it is an armor car service, but what about the people who make or drive armored limos or HumVees?

luvtolean
02-06-2009, 4:28 PM
And it would probably be the first-ever armored car service with lawyers in the passenger seats.

:43:

Classic.

Jicko
02-06-2009, 4:30 PM
what are you, kids? Just who do you imagine they'd be selling to? Not the private retail market, that's illegal in this state.
Their only legit customers would be govt / LEO.

That's actually... not true....

DDT
02-06-2009, 4:50 PM
Why do you need an armored car for an armored car service? Just start it in Alameda county. If you can have a gun show without guns surely the county attorney would understand an armored car company without an armored car.

But if you really want to spend $23K on an armored car might as well go up to $24K and get this one: http://tinyurl.com/buzm8r

Librarian
02-06-2009, 5:14 PM
Now this is why I like this board. Hack that law like a pimply faced youth hacks a computer!

I'll buy from the Bad Humor Man, and I'll put some money up for the defense.

Regards,


SwissFluCase

It's a Youth Fund Raiser - door-to-door magazine sales.

wolf13
02-06-2009, 5:22 PM
Why do you need an armored car for an armored car service? Just start it in Alameda county. If you can have a gun show without guns surely the county attorney would understand an armored car company without an armored car.

But if you really want to spend $23K on an armored car might as well go up to $24K and get this one: http://tinyurl.com/buzm8r

Sig worthy. Can I use it?

Jicko
02-06-2009, 5:23 PM
CA PC 12020 (a) (2) prohibits the make/import/sale/give/lend of hi-cap mag


(2) Commencing January 1, 2000, manufactures or causes to be manufactured, imports into the state, keeps for sale, or offers or exposes for sale, or who gives, or lends, any large-capacity magazine.



CA PC 12020 (b) gives exception to 12020 (a)


(b) Subdivision (a) does not apply to any of the following:



and CA PC 12020 (b) (27) list that an "armored vehicle businesses" is exempt from 12020 (a)


(27) The sale of, giving of, lending of, importation into this state of, or purchase of, any large-capacity magazine, to or by entities that operate armored vehicle businesses pursuant to the laws of this state.



http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/dwcl/12020.php



sintax, cypren, ke6guj, rayra : OK!?!?!?

Midian
02-06-2009, 5:30 PM
I have to ask, and I'm sure it's been asked before.

This The Right People thing.

What does that mean, exactly?

Jicko
02-06-2009, 5:32 PM
I have to ask, and I'm sure it's been asked before.

This The Right People thing.

What does that mean, exactly?


Don't ask.... don't tell....

:eek:

JDoe
02-06-2009, 5:35 PM
Do we have the Cali PC definition of "armored vehicle businesses" yet?

Midian
02-06-2009, 5:41 PM
The Right People - the law firm of Trutanich

Is that about right?

sorensen440
02-06-2009, 5:43 PM
The Right People - the law firm of Trutanich

Is that about right?
Yes

DedEye
02-06-2009, 5:52 PM
The Right People - the law firm of Trutanich

Is that about right?

Them, the board of CGF, and others.

Glock22Fan
02-06-2009, 6:03 PM
23 grand? That's all? Heck, if every Calguns member (over 21k last I looked) gave a buck and some change, we'd be there!:D

Well, I saw Burn Notice (yes, I know it's a load of brown smelly stuff) the other day and apparently you can make an armored car out of an old wreck lined with telephone directories.

I wonder if we could sue the tv company if it didn't work as advertised?

lioneaglegriffin
02-06-2009, 6:21 PM
Well, I saw Burn Notice (yes, I know it's a load of brown smelly stuff) the other day and apparently you can make an armored car out of an old wreck lined with telephone directories.

I wonder if we could sue the tv company if it didn't work as advertised?

well if you watch youtube you could see that phonebooks do stop bullets. but as far as caliber goes.... i dunno i would think something large would make it through. maybe something from a highpowered rifle. i.e bolt gun or .50cal semi

Librarian
02-06-2009, 6:37 PM
Do we have the Cali PC definition of "armored vehicle businesses" yet?

No. No such thing.

CHP has a .PDF doc about it here (http://www.chp.ca.gov/publications/pdf/chp863.pdf).

We know that DMV wants to issue some kind of license (http://www.dmv.ca.gov/pubs/vctop/d02/vc2510.htm) for vehicles.

We know that the employees driving/moving valuables usually need guard cards (http://www.bsis.ca.gov/), and if you want them armed, they need the firearms training and the exposed firearm permit.

We know such a business has to follow standard business licensing, for the county or city in which it is located.

We know that such a business would actually have to try to provide whatever customary services an armored car business provides - but business success is not a requirement. 1111. General Requirements.
General requirements for issuance or renewal of an armored car license are as follows:
(a) Eligibility for License. A license to operate privately owned armored cars may be issued only to:
(1) Persons or firms regularly hired to transport money or other valuables that require special security

.22guy
02-06-2009, 6:39 PM
what are you, kids? Just who do you imagine they'd be selling to? Not the private retail market, that's illegal in this state.
Their only legit customers would be govt / LEO.

Is this the way some people talked about OLL's a few years ago? Unfortunately, I wasn't around for that, but this is what I imagine some people saying then....

DedEye
02-06-2009, 6:55 PM
Is this the way some people talked about OLL's a few years ago? Unfortunately, I wasn't around for that, but this is what I imagine some people saying then....

You can safely ignore 90% of what he says. You won't be missing much.

lioneaglegriffin
02-06-2009, 7:02 PM
You can safely ignore 90% of what he says. You won't be missing much.

lol :D if you say so comrade.

foxtrotuniformlima
02-06-2009, 7:07 PM
If you employ the search function you will find that the entirety of using an armored car to sell large-capacity magazines (even equipped with the ice cream truck music) has been fully hashed out.

The law says that armored vehicle businesses can sell large-capacity magazines to anyone.

-Gene

And can anyone buy them ?

DedEye
02-06-2009, 7:31 PM
And can anyone buy them ?

Do you see anything in PC12020(a)(2) saying you can't?

wildhawker
02-06-2009, 7:38 PM
23 grand? That's all? Heck, if every Calguns member (over 21k last I looked) gave a buck and some change, we'd be there!:D

If we all gave a buck and some change, we'd have a pretty good post-Nordyke offensive fund as well.

I love the spirit of giving, we just need to stay focused and take the long view.

foxtrotuniformlima
02-06-2009, 8:03 PM
Do you see anything in PC12020(a)(2) saying you can't?

I guess not but my search-fu is not strong when used on legal documents.

I know it is not illegal to possses them.

So what stops us from buying all the individual parts and assembling them ? Would that be considered manufacturing ?

aplinker
02-06-2009, 8:16 PM
I guess not but my search-fu is not strong when used on legal documents.

I know it is not illegal to possses them.

So what stops us from buying all the individual parts and assembling them ? Would that be considered manufacturing ?

:yes:

SwissFluCase
02-06-2009, 8:23 PM
It's a Youth Fund Raiser - door-to-door magazine sales.

"Excuse me sir, would you like to support my school"?

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2069/2674671288_432e625a13_o.jpg

Don't blame me. I entered "ice cream truck guns" into google, and that's what I got. :eek:

Regards,


SwissFluCase

Librarian
02-06-2009, 8:32 PM
I guess not but my search-fu is not strong when used on legal documents.

I know it is not illegal to possses them.

So what stops us from buying all the individual parts and assembling them ? Would that be considered manufacturing ?
Yes, maybe, perhaps.

There's an untested possibility that the precise language of the places in PC that refer to manufacturers indicates that's 'manufacture for sale'.

Since that's untested, I wouldn't want to be the first to do that without a good attorney on retainer. And maybe a psychiatrist.

foxtrotuniformlima
02-06-2009, 8:34 PM
But an Armored Car Company can buy a case of Glock mags from Georgia or AR15 mags from Colorado and sell them to us one at a time ?

I wonder if the DOJ will give us a letter stating that is OK ?

bwiese
02-06-2009, 8:43 PM
But an Armored Car Company can buy a case of Glock mags from Georgia or AR15 mags from Colorado and sell them to us one at a time ?

I wonder if the DOJ will give us a letter stating that is OK ?

Probably not, but the BoF is getting pretty irrelevant.

7x57
02-06-2009, 8:43 PM
Yes I know... Though I don't think a judge would be able to shut it down,


Why not? If texts do not have fixed, discoverable meanings, as the ideology and religion of the Left avers, then there are no limits. I realize it's almost unimaginable, but just to stretch a point and exaggerate for effect, a court could even hold that the commerce clause is actually a magic wish-granting genie that means anything that an eager president or congress needs it to mean and applies to anything they need it to apply to.

OK, OK, that's *too* silly...could never happen...wait a minute...:kest:


you can bet the legistature would jump on it. The media would scream "loophole!".


Naturally. Although, if the goal were to just run with the ball until tackled, one would unleash the neighborhood magazine truck about five minutes after the close of a legislative session. Too bad they'd have to wait until the next year....

But seriously, I would not be surprised if a judge just invented something lame. It seems to be the purpose of law school to teach lame invention.

7x57

7x57
02-06-2009, 8:45 PM
FWIW, the cheapest armored delivery vehicle (vs. armord pimptastic escalade) I could find on the internet was for $23K.


Hey! And just what is wrong with an armored pimptastic escalade, anyway?!?

7x57

7x57
02-06-2009, 8:49 PM
And it would probably be the first-ever armored car service with lawyers in the passenger seats.

OK, that's it. Now we *have* to do it.

So does the "I get the top bunk" comment in Don Kilmer's .sig refer to some sort of sleeping arrangement in the back of the armored car, possibly for use while on the run--Blues Brothers style, of course--from the law? I guess more likely he means in jail. :chris:

7x57

7x57
02-06-2009, 8:54 PM
It's a Youth Fund Raiser - door-to-door magazine sales.

Nice. Say, can I get a magazine subscription? Maybe a 30-rounder a month for the gun of my choice? Or maybe it's like the book of the month club: "each month, you'll receive(*) a standard capacity magazine for a new firearm or cartridge. If you wish to keep it and use it as an excuse to your wife to buy a new gun, simply do nothing--you will be billed automatically. On the other hand, if you do not wish to keep it, simply put it in the envelope provided and return it."

* I choose to ignore any language about "importing into the state" for the sake of satire.

7x57

Linh
02-06-2009, 8:57 PM
Even if someone was willing to do all that it cost a lot of money way more than getting an armored vehicle. Like insurances and bonds etc.....

Then someone is gonna get arrested for sure and they'll have to explain it all. Hope they'll have lots and lots of money to defend themselves.

Lawyers would love this. Whether you win or lose they still get paid lots of money and they aren't the ones going to jail you are.

If owning a normal cap magazine is that important then you should either move to another state or contribute lots of money to a organization or be eligalbe to own normal cap ie...gun store/LE or own your own armored car company lol.

hoffmang
02-06-2009, 9:54 PM
Then someone is gonna get arrested for sure and they'll have to explain it all. Hope they'll have lots and lots of money to defend themselves.


The reason Bill mentions that there will be a lawyer in the passenger seat is because he'll be carry the briefcase full of $50K in cash to bail the armored vehicle business owners out that night.

This has all been thought all the way through. It's not yet time. And for those asking, yes - all the right people have been fully briefed on it.

-Gene

PIRATE14
02-06-2009, 9:58 PM
The reason Bill mentions that there will be a lawyer in the passenger seat is because he'll be carry the briefcase full of $50K in cash to bail the armored vehicle business owners out that night.

This has all been thought all the way through. It's not yet time. And for those asking, yes - all the right people have been fully briefed on it.

-Gene

Ya....I'd pay to see this one.....

lioneaglegriffin
02-06-2009, 10:00 PM
The reason Bill mentions that there will be a lawyer in the passenger seat is because he'll be carry the briefcase full of $50K in cash to bail the armored vehicle business owners out that night.

This has all been thought all the way through. It's not yet time. And for those asking, yes - all the right people have been fully briefed on it.

-Gene

the hardest part of chess is thinking ahead, the most fun part of chess is taking the crown. :thumbsup:

fd15k
02-06-2009, 10:05 PM
Just make sure every CG member gets alerted when it's time to buy their very nice brand new Standard Capacity mags :43:

SwissFluCase
02-06-2009, 10:08 PM
The reason Bill mentions that there will be a lawyer in the passenger seat is because he'll be carry the briefcase full of $50K in cash to bail the armored vehicle business owners out that night.

This has all been thought all the way through. It's not yet time. And for those asking, yes - all the right people have been fully briefed on it.

-Gene

Phew! I read that as "...the briefcase full of MP5K..." the first time! :eek:

Bedtime for me.

This is so weird. Let me know what I can do to help, if anything. Until then, I'll send more money.

Regards,


SwissFluCase

nick
02-06-2009, 10:18 PM
Phew! I read that as "...the briefcase full of MP5K..." the first time! :eek:

Bedtime for me.

This is so weird. Let me know what I can do to help, if anything. Until then, I'll send more money.

Regards,


SwissFluCase

It's notabout you being sleepy,it's just that you've been on Calguns for too long :D

7x57
02-06-2009, 10:22 PM
Phew! I read that as "...the briefcase full of MP5K..." the first time! :eek:


Now that's riding shotgun. Or submachine gun. Can you ride submachine gun? Can you yell "I call submachine gun!" if you want to have the briefcase with the MP5 this time?

Inquiring minds want to know--which pretty much proves that it *is* indeed bedtime. :-)

7x57

SwissFluCase
02-06-2009, 10:25 PM
Now that's riding shotgun. Or submachine gun. Can you ride submachine gun? Can you yell "I call submachine gun!" if you want to have the briefcase with the MP5 this time?

Inquiring minds want to know--which pretty much proves that it *is* indeed bedtime. :-)

7x57

Shotgun = front passenger seat.
Submachinegun = trunk or rear facing bench. :43:

Regards,


SwissFluCase

nick
02-06-2009, 10:26 PM
You can't have an MP5 unless you work for Nansy Pelosi, but if you do, you're not supposed to have it. Catch-22.

DDT
02-07-2009, 1:41 AM
Sig worthy. Can I use it?

of course

wash
02-07-2009, 5:07 PM
How do I get on the list to know the location of the first stop?

vrand
02-07-2009, 6:18 PM
And it would probably be the first-ever armored car service with lawyers in the passenger seats.

:laugh::laugh::laugh:

:thumbsup:

bohoki
02-07-2009, 8:56 PM
hmm you probably dont even need to own a armored car to be in buisness

you could just subcontract out the armored car deliveries to another company in fact with subsidy of the magazine sales profits you could probably subcontract out at a loss just to get contracts

Rukus
02-10-2009, 2:24 PM
I think the real issue shouldn't be about starting up an armored car business, but rather approaching an established armored car business. Present it as a way for additional revenue to be made. Like it was mentioned before, they could charge double and people would pay for them.....So does anyone know a "gun friendly" armored car business?

7x57
02-10-2009, 2:29 PM
I think the real issue shouldn't be about starting up an armored car business, but rather approaching an established armored car business. Present it as a way for additional revenue to be made. Like it was mentioned before, they could charge double and people would pay for them.....So does anyone know a "gun friendly" armored car business?

I imagine that doing this would be the equivalent of putting on a turkey suit and strutting around going "gobble gobble" during turkey season. I would expect difficulty in renewing your license and all sorts of stuff. An existing business would be foolish to take that risk, as it is someone's (several someones') rice bowl. If my family depended on it, I would certainly keep my 2A activity separate.

It needs to be done by people who care more about the 2A than about the business.

But again, it seems that it is not time to try this--better to wait and see if we can attack the ban in court first. This is sort of a reserve "plan B."

7x57

tortoisethunder
02-14-2009, 10:02 PM
I think we need to start by suing the state of california for our right to have "standard capacity magazines". We should start by saying CA is taking our right to have a standard 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, etc. round magazine as original design provided by the manufacturer of the gun.

This would be like buying a Ford F250 and ONLY being able to have a V6 because the V8 or V10 is too powerful for people in this state. If we take a stand like this maybe we can show the closed minded our point?

Maybe we can get Gun manufactures to help? It is there original design. Their cost has to be greater do to the special magazine and parts they have to re-design? JUST A THOUGHT?

7x57
02-14-2009, 10:56 PM
This would be like buying a Ford F250 and ONLY being able to have a V6 because the V8 or V10 is too powerful for people in this state. If we take a stand like this maybe we can show the closed minded our point?


You have failed to grasp the nature of reality. If you bring that up to the wrong people, you will not get your standard-cap magazines. However, CA *will* start forbidding the larger engines, because they are less environmentally friendly.

They might name the bill after you, though, as you're the one who suggested that they get involved in your engine choices. Good times.

7x57

shark92651
02-24-2009, 8:30 PM
Ok, thanks probably to this thread, I just had a customer email me claiming he works for an armored car company and wants to know if I will sell him some high-caps. So, what's the real story on this? Does he have to be an owner of the company or what?

hoffmang
02-24-2009, 8:34 PM
Ok, thanks probably to this thread, I just had a customer email me claiming he works for an armored car company and wants to know if I will sell him some high-caps. So, what's the real story on this? Does he have to be an owner of the company or what?

You have to sell the large capacity magazine to the actual armored car company. They can give lend it to him.

-Gene

bohoki
02-24-2009, 9:21 PM
This would be like buying a Ford F250 and ONLY being able to have a V6 because the V8 or V10 is too powerful for people in this state. If we take a stand like this maybe we can show the closed minded our point?

that is an incorrect analogy

california doesn't ban the power they ban the quantity it would be more like if they said you can only have a 10 gallon tank because you drive to long without stopping

outersquare
02-24-2009, 10:04 PM
lies, they would ban high cap gas tanks because you could run over more people and get away with it.
3 gals max, so you cannot run to mexico

erblo
02-25-2009, 6:27 PM
1111. General Requirements.
General requirements for issuance or renewal of an armored car license are as follows:
(a) Eligibility for License. A license to operate privately owned armored cars may be issued only to:
(1) Persons or firms regularly hired to transport money or other valuables that require special security

Would firearms be considered "valuables that require special security"?

It seems like there are people here that transport firearms right? Maybe this could be a sister company for one of the gun stores, to transport merchandise?

What is the definition of an armored car? Can't you just use a van? It'll stop a .22 right?

I'd definitely pay good money for some high caps.

bigcalidave
03-15-2009, 9:55 PM
It looks like a $10 license from the CHP... This is a great idea. Hell, I've got nothing to lose right now. It does say you have to be regularly operating in the armored car business... Real question I have is where can I get 100,000 high cap magazines in VERY short order? Because if you're gonna do it, it's not gonna last long. Might as well do as much as possible in the first few weeks...

hoffmang
03-15-2009, 10:11 PM
It looks like a $10 license from the CHP... This is a great idea. Hell, I've got nothing to lose right now. It does say you have to be regularly operating in the armored car business... Real question I have is where can I get 100,000 high cap magazines in VERY short order? Because if you're gonna do it, it's not gonna last long. Might as well do as much as possible in the first few weeks...

Be careful. The startup costs are quite a bit more. You need to incorporate, get your guard card, buy/lease an armored vehicle, and find a real customer or two before you can just start selling large-caps off your armored vehicle at gun shows.

When I ran the numbers it looked to me like you need about $25K to $50K depending on exact choices. You'll also need to be able to have retainer ready and bail ready (unless you don't mind sitting in jail for a few days.)

If you're really game, some of us can help with certain of the latter parts.

-Gene

zachary2287
03-15-2009, 10:45 PM
As far as acquiring customers for our Armored Car Business I bet there are some OLL friendly FFLs that may need to acquire armored car services due to the drastic surge in firearms sales since the election.

Hiring employees: I have security experience and have actually been thinking about applying to some armored transport companies. You won't have to pay me.

Will work for mags!

bigcalidave
03-15-2009, 11:12 PM
I'm sure plenty of businesses would be happy to use an armored car service that charged a minimal fee instead of having their employees take money to the bank on their own ;) Has nothing to do with the intent of the business owners, just offer a low cost service. Also, where does it say you have to buy or lease an armored vehicle. Why not build one? I've had high SPL (car stereo) vehicles which were WELL armored... I have access to some vehicles which would be easy to up-armor... :)

bigcalidave
03-15-2009, 11:16 PM
By the way Gene, You have done wonders for the rights of the citizens of California, and everything you do is appreciated. This is a serious consideration at this point, and has been for quite a few months since I first read those provisions. Recent interest (and employment status) may turn this into a possibility. Since the demand is obviously VERY high, I think that establishing a retainer would take very little time.
I previously held a guard card (about 10 years ago) those are easy to get. I've incorporated and ran a small business before, again, not too much effort. Establishing a regular route of customers for my single armored vehicle would be fairly quick and easy... My major concern would be the jail time, haven't done that one... I guess the real major concern would be if a business like this and the probable negative repercussions and court case would be beneficial to the fight for the rights of Californians or if it would cast a negative appearance in the media and public eye. You would be the apparent figurehead to bring that last question to.

sorensen440
03-15-2009, 11:18 PM
I suspect the real problem short of the $$ would be finding enough mags at this time to make it worth while

bigcalidave
03-15-2009, 11:25 PM
Definitely a concern, would any distributors care to contact me about availability and if they would even be willing to sell large quantities of mags to a licensed, established armored car company?

tiki
03-16-2009, 6:59 AM
Someone is selling 100 30 round mags on gunbroker. I would have included the link but I am on my mobile device right now.

Untamed1972
03-16-2009, 7:44 AM
I only read the first 5 or 6 pages so excuse if I repeat something someone already said. Now granted there are many applications for Hi-Cap mags (ie pistols, rifles like M1's or Kel-Tec and so on)

But when it comes to you OLL.....even with a Mag Lock attaching a mag with more then a 10rd mag still makes it an illegal assualt weapon does it not?

383green
03-16-2009, 8:12 AM
But when it comes to you OLL.....even with a Mag Lock attaching a mag with more then a 10rd mag still makes it an illegal assualt weapon does it not?

With a mag lock (such as the Bullet Button), the magazine must have a capacity of no more than 10 rounds.

However, it is legal to use a larger magazine in a rifle that does not have a magazine lock (that is, it has the capacity to accept a detachable magazine), if the rifle does not have any of the restricted features (such as a pistol grip, collapsible stock, flash hider, etc.). An OLL rifle can be built this way using one of the non-pistol-grip stock furniture sets available on the market, such as the MonsterMan Grip.

Please take a look at the assault weapon identification flow chart (]http://www.calguns.net/caawid/flowchart.pdf[/URL) to learn more about the two basic kinds of legal OLL configurations (either fixed-magazine or featureless), as well as pictures of a couple of the non-pistol-grip stocks available.

Untamed1972
03-16-2009, 3:06 PM
Roger that on the MM grip. I knew that....just forgot to include that in my list of exceptions. BTW.....how does it feel to shoot one with the MM grip? Looks more awkward than anything to me? Would rather go with pistol grip and BB myself I think.

383green
03-16-2009, 3:11 PM
I've never handled either a MonsterMan grip or a U15 stock, personally.

CAL.BAR
03-16-2009, 3:13 PM
I suspect the real problem short of the $$ would be finding enough mags at this time to make it worth while

+1 right there - how many people with no evil feature builds are there out there to want high cap mags? How many mags can you sell 1 thousan - ten thousand? and the profit on that? Can't be very much vs. the obvious legal risks. You know it's a matter of time until you get sued or the whole in the law changes.

Untamed1972
03-16-2009, 3:36 PM
+1 right there - how many people with no evil feature builds are there out there to want high cap mags? How many mags can you sell 1 thousan - ten thousand? and the profit on that? Can't be very much vs. the obvious legal risks. You know it's a matter of time until you get sued or the whole in the law changes.

Well there is still a market for pistol mags......plenty of legal pistols in this state that might like to have some hi-caps to go with them. Does seem like a very odd loophole though and suprised no existing company hasn't tried to capitolize on it yet.

dmckean44
03-04-2013, 11:28 AM
I'm still waiting for the Calguns Armored Car service to start selling at gun shows.

bodger
03-04-2013, 12:15 PM
I have to ask, and I'm sure it's been asked before.

This The Right People thing.

What does that mean, exactly?

Don't ask.... don't tell....

:eek:

First rule of The Right People......

Maestro Pistolero
03-04-2013, 12:21 PM
Have we learned nothing? How long would it take for the legislature to amend that law if some armored car company started selling in magazines in bulk to the general population? A week?, A month?

YubaRiver
03-04-2013, 12:24 PM
I wonder if the Magpul Unimog could be armored?

http://www.magpul.com/magpul-sponsors-truck-in-breslau-rallye-june-26-july2.html

Exile Machine
03-04-2013, 12:27 PM
Dang this is an old thread. (BTW "lowracer" was my personal account here before I started Exile Machine).
-Mark

dmckean44
03-04-2013, 12:33 PM
Have we learned nothing? How long would it take for the legislature to amend that law if some armored car company started selling in magazines in bulk to the general population? A week?, A month?

It would probably take close to year which would give us all plenty of time to stock up on new standard capacity mags. We'd obviously want to time it when there's not a panic and standard capacity mags are widely available.

chillincody
03-04-2013, 12:37 PM
umm i fill dumb for asking this but what is Nordyke again ??? I have abad memory and cant for the life of me remember what it is

JDay
03-04-2013, 12:39 PM
:beatdeadhorse5:

dmckean44
03-04-2013, 12:53 PM
It's not beating a dead horse, it's a known loophole and we should be exploiting it. If they're going to come at us from every angle, we should be doing the same to them.

JDay
03-04-2013, 12:59 PM
It's not beating a dead horse, it's a known loophole and we should be exploiting it. If they're going to come at us from every angle, we should be doing the same to them.

This has been discussed on here numerous times, a simple search will show you that.

OleCuss
03-04-2013, 1:00 PM
All that expense and regulatory hassle only to be shut down by the government before you sold two PDMs?

It's not going to happen.

chillincody
03-04-2013, 1:01 PM
It's not beating a dead horse, it's a known loophole and we should be exploiting it. If they're going to come at us from every angle, we should be doing the same to them.

:facepalm: only its not a loophole its the law calling something that is law a loophole is what the antis do to win a arguement to make it sound as if we are tweaking the law to our favor when in fact we are following the law as they wrote it so please please stop calling it a freakin loophole

bruss01
03-04-2013, 1:04 PM
Really eager to hear more on this...

dmckean44
03-04-2013, 1:18 PM
:facepalm: only its not a loophole its the law calling something that is law a loophole is what the antis do to win a arguement to make it sound as if we are tweaking the law to our favor when in fact we are following the law as they wrote it so please please stop calling it a freakin loophole

Doesn't matter, if these were tax laws for rich bankers we'd be calling them loopholes. It is what is is.

dmckean44
03-04-2013, 1:21 PM
That company could make a great business out of buying people's rebuild kits and selling them finished mags.

But what do I know....

The law only exempts armored car companies from the sale of, giving of, lending of, importation into this state of, or purchase of, any large-capacity magazine. So no manufacturing.

Tincon
03-04-2013, 1:46 PM
I'm still waiting for the Calguns Armored Car service to start selling at gun shows.

And you will be waiting forever, because contrary to what Gene has said for years, this isn't legal. The language of the PC could be interpreted to exempt armored car operators from magazine sale restrictions, but it will not be interpreted that way because it would contradict the clear and express intent of the legislature in enacting the law.

dmckean44
03-04-2013, 2:24 PM
And you will be waiting forever, because contrary to what Gene has said for years, this isn't legal. The language of the PC could be interpreted to exempt armored car operators from magazine sale restrictions, but it will not be interpreted that way because it would contradict the clear and express intent of the legislature in enacting the law.

So do magazine locks but they've done fine in court.

Tincon
03-04-2013, 2:38 PM
So do magazine locks but they've done fine in court.

Actually, they are very different.

Intent of legislature of exempting gun which require use of a tool to release the magazine from certain AW restrictions: use of a tool makes the gun "less dangerous" and therefore not subject to restriction.

Intent covers all guns which require tools to release magazine.

Intent of legislature of exempting armored car carriers from certain magazine sales restrictions: armored car employees have a significant need to use larger magazines for their job and are generally subject to strict background checks, and should therefore be exempt.

Intent only covers sales to certain persons, related to armored car business.

CSACANNONEER
03-04-2013, 2:47 PM
Sorry, I do not see intent either spelled out or implied in the law.


It is nice to see that a mere 4 years after this thread started, the OP has done a great job helping to keep those of us still behind enemy lines supplied.

Tincon
03-04-2013, 3:06 PM
Sorry, I do not see intent either spelled out or implied in the law.


Note the internal inconsistency between (27) and (28). Why does the law give them specific permission to lend to employees if they can already lend (or sell) to anyone?

dmckean44
03-04-2013, 3:19 PM
It seems spelled out pretty clear to me, how else would you interpret it? Who else would their customers be? Law enforcement already has it's own exclusion.

nastyhabts26
03-04-2013, 3:42 PM
I fail to see the logic in this idea.
Now covertly selling hi cap mags from an ice cream truck now you got an idea!!
Little sally and tommy getting a big stick and a beta mag for Mom!!:eek:

tophatjones
03-04-2013, 4:57 PM
Pertaining to rifles, original intent was essentially to ban all SAs not named Garand and SKS. The legislature in 2000 couldn't have predicted the invention of maglocks. Only through victories in court (such as Harriot vs King county) and the continued efforts of the CGF have BBs become commonplace and generally accepted.

http://oag.ca.gov/sites/all/files/pdfs/firearms/regs/fsor.pdf

Actually, they are very different.

Intent of legislature of exempting gun which require use of a tool to release the magazine from certain AW restrictions: use of a tool makes the gun "less dangerous" and therefore not subject to restriction.

Intent covers all guns which require tools to release magazine.

Intent of legislature of exempting armored car carriers from certain magazine sales restrictions: armored car employees have a significant need to use larger magazines for their job and are generally subject to strict background checks, and should therefore be exempt.

Intent only covers sales to certain persons, related to armored car business.

Tincon
03-04-2013, 5:05 PM
Pertaining to rifles, original intent was essentially to ban all SAs not named Garand and SKS.

A slight rephrasing: The legislative intent was to exempt guns with features similar to the Garand and SKS from a SA ban. This is what they did, and whether they like it or not, our BB equipped rifles share the same feature that exempt the Garand and SKS. Now maybe they only wanted to exempt the Garand and SKS, not similar guns, but then they could have tried to do so by name. So this argument is not very strong.

On the other hand, the intent behind the large-cap mag ban is much less nuanced.

But hey if I'm wrong then you could make a huge amount of money with an armored car company... As a matter of fact, why don't you bug CGF to do it since they keep saying it is legal. I'm willing to bet that won't ever happen though.

bohoki
03-04-2013, 5:17 PM
yea you can explain you need the armored car to keep your magazines from being stolen

dmckean44
03-04-2013, 8:38 PM
yea you can explain you need the armored car to keep your magazines from being stolen

great idea

mag360
03-04-2013, 9:27 PM
If the armored car company sells a person a magazine, is there a requirement for the person to retain paperwork of said transaction?

foreppin916
03-04-2013, 10:29 PM
why would you make a company to sell standard capacity magazines when you can just sell repair kits legally to the same people that can buy them already assembled?What I can't figure is why someone hasn't started up an Armored Car Company expressly for the purpose of selling large capacity mags in CA?

Roll those armored cars stuffed to the gills with large capacity mags up to every gun show. Roll the armored cars to the bank afterwards, loaded with cash.

You could stop at grocery stores and other shops on the way to the bank and help them with transporting their money to the bank as well.

But you'd make most of your money selling large capacity mags, legally.

AceHound
03-04-2013, 11:23 PM
we need more armored car services, considering all the high cap mags out there

Tmckinney
03-05-2013, 7:14 AM
Not the time to be discussing badly written legislation

Scarecrow Repair
03-05-2013, 8:48 AM
And you will be waiting forever, because contrary to what Gene has said for years, this isn't legal. The language of the PC could be interpreted to exempt armored car operators from magazine sale restrictions, but it will not be interpreted that way because it would contradict the clear and express intent of the legislature in enacting the law.

Your crystal ball in working condition, I see. Everyone else is in error for reading the plain language of the law itself, while your crystal ball enables you to foresee that judges will fail to read that plain language.

Your subsequent prognostications don't improve matters any.

curtisfong
03-05-2013, 8:50 AM
contrary to what Gene has said for years

Gene's method had/has nothing to do with armored car companies. You really almost had me convinced, but there is a pattern to your posts that make me distrust you.

it will not be interpreted that way because it would contradict the clear and express intent of the legislature in enacting the law.

No, it will not be interpreted that way because the court system in CA is corrupt when it comes to the 2A.

DrDavid
03-05-2013, 8:51 AM
If you employ the search function you will find that the entirety of using an armored car to sell large-capacity magazines (even equipped with the ice cream truck music) has been fully hashed out.

The law says that armored vehicle businesses can sell large-capacity magazines to anyone.

-Gene

Wats the definition of an armored car? If I put a piece of Kevlar on my Accord, does that count?

dmckean44
03-05-2013, 8:59 AM
I'm thinking I'll give the armored truck some rockwell axles and a zombie apocalypse paint job. It'd double as a kick *** SHTF vehicle.

curtisfong
03-05-2013, 11:03 AM
IMO the reason the armored car exemption is considered a bad idea is because it is one that could easily be addressed by legislation were people to start to use it widely.

Not to mention the fact that the corrupt CA courts are likely to ignore the letter of the law and cause problems for you if you tried it.

dmckean44
03-05-2013, 11:09 AM
But in the mean time it would allow the state to restock itself with mags.

Bhobbs
03-05-2013, 11:43 AM
I'm still waiting on Gene's work around that is 100% legal an unstoppable by the antis. From the sound if it, that is our best bet to getting legal hi caps.

mag360
03-05-2013, 12:29 PM
but what if the armored car company already sold people the mags!?

Tincon
03-05-2013, 1:53 PM
I'm still waiting on Gene's work around that is 100% legal an unstoppable by the antis. From the sound if it, that is our best bet to getting legal hi caps.

Don't hold your breath.

disintelligentsia
03-05-2013, 1:55 PM
My $.02 is that if and when a case came before the courts, that the court would look at the total revenue of the "armored vehicle business" and if the revenue from selling mags was greater than that derived from the use of armored vehicles, the court would by judicial construction, find that it was not an armored vehicle business but a arms sale business with an incidental or ancillary side in armored vehicles.

Tincon
03-05-2013, 2:09 PM
My $.02 is that if and when a case came before the courts, that the court would look at the total revenue of the "armored vehicle business" and if the revenue from selling mags was greater than that derived from the use of armored vehicles, the court would by judicial construction, find that it was not an armored vehicle business but a arms sale business with an incidental or ancillary side in armored vehicles.

It isn't a mystery under CA what an Armored car operator is, they have licenses. If you are licensed as a Armored car operator, you are a Armored car operator. The problem is in the felony sale of large capacity magazines.

dmckean44
03-05-2013, 2:11 PM
It isn't a mystery under CA what an Armored car operator is, they have licenses. If you are licensed as a Armored car operator, you are a Armored car operator. The problem is in the felony sale of large capacity magazines.

How would it be a felony sale when they're exempted from the law??

Tincon
03-05-2013, 2:23 PM
How would it be a felony sale when they're exempted from the law??

Because of the way courts interpret statutes (not always literally). It has been thoroughly explained elsewhere.

Alan Block
03-05-2013, 3:23 PM
Ok, Granted its legal to sell a magazine. Is it legal to purchase one?

bohoki
03-05-2013, 3:54 PM
But in the mean time it would allow the state to restock itself with mags.

yep if one could buy a 20 round saiga drum they could use it

but its kind of hard saying you found it in a storage auction cause they never have any of those its always those m16 mags

Corsair415
03-05-2013, 6:36 PM
This has been discussed on here numerous times, a simple search will show you that.It seems that a simple search may have been what brought this thread to life.

OleCuss
03-05-2013, 6:45 PM
Ok, Granted its legal to sell a magazine. Is it legal to purchase one?

I consider this to be an interesting question.

But first, unless you meet one of the exceptions, it is not legal to sell a greater than ten round magazine (PDM).

Whether or not it is legal to be the purchaser is more complex. The most obvious code does not say that it is illegal to buy a PDM (Personal Defense Magazine). But if you were the buyer you might be construed to have conspired with the seller to commit a felony - or to have aided and abetted?

There may be a definitive answer to the question - but I suspect it would be from a future court case. I don't want to be the test case.

Tincon
03-05-2013, 6:52 PM
But if you were the buyer you might be construed to have conspired with the seller to commit a felony - or to have aided and abetted?

Well, if it were legal to sell, what would the felony be? Of course, this is academic since it IS illegal to sell (to the general public). There is however, no state law I am aware of prohibiting the purchase (or possession) or the magazine where the sale was legal.

Scarecrow Repair
03-05-2013, 6:54 PM
Ok, Granted its legal to sell a magazine. Is it legal to purchase one?

Entirely, regardless of whether the seller is committing a crime, other than being charged with a conspiracy for not ratting out the seller.

mcmikeblues7
03-05-2013, 6:59 PM
23 grand? That's all? Heck, if every Calguns member (over 21k last I looked) gave a buck and some change, we'd be there!:D

Ya, and if every gun owner was a member of the NRA we wouldn't even need to have this discussion.

smle-man
03-05-2013, 7:32 PM
All the Right People seem to think this is not worth it because Nordyke is likely to not only fix the problem for real, but be faster and so on. But....

Supposing this was done, I am quite sure that selling them like ice-cream off a truck is exactly the way to get a judge to interpret away the letter of the law. Instead of being over-eager gunnies, these things always seem to go step-by-step. Let me try to think of a way:

First, create your company, and operate it just like all the other companies for a while. Establish a track record of being a legitimate, profitable business.

Then sell hi-caps to LEO's. This isn't so likely to raise eyebrows, but you're establishing that you can do this as part of your business.

Then, perhaps sell hi-cap mags to your employees. That is obviously business related, and you're selling them instead of having them use company mags to save money. Establish that this is within the law.

Then perhaps sell to employees of the companies you do business with. I'm not sure if ordinary security guards can get them other ways, but if not sell to them. Or sell to jewelers; they are presumably *not* under any exemption, but could arguably need them. Note that these are in some way related to your business; you are offering an additional service, a value-add, and doing so to people who can use them. You could even insist they have a CCW so as to mollify DAs who may accept a need that the local Sheriff recognizes in another way. Again, establish this as a legitimate and legal activity.

And so on, until you have solid legal precedent before selling to a random civilian.

Now, assuming such a thing works, how long is it going to take? Quite a while? Maybe better to wait for Nordyke and challenge directly, huh?

I assume that is why the Right People are not trying this avenue yet, so far as I know.

7x57

Having been employed in the cash in transit (armored car) business in CA for 22 years all I can say is you better have a heckofa profit margin on those magazines because nobody's making much money being in the business here. Plus you have to be licensed by the CHP amongst other agencies and I doubt you'll be in business long with your business model.

Good luck with it though.

OleCuss
03-05-2013, 7:32 PM
Well, if it were legal to sell, what would the felony be? Of course, this is academic since it IS illegal to sell (to the general public). There is however, no state law I am aware of prohibiting the purchase (or possession) or the magazine where the sale was legal.

Sorry, I feel like I'm missing something. . .

Your post feels like you are trying to correct something I wrote, but I don't see where you contradicted what I wrote, added a nuance or additional fact.

I may be a little dense tonight so I appreciate your help on this.

Tincon
03-05-2013, 7:39 PM
Sorry, I feel like I'm missing something. . .

Your post feels like you are trying to correct something I wrote, but I don't see where you contradicted what I wrote, added a nuance or additional fact.

I may be a little dense tonight so I appreciate your help on this.

We are probably saying the same thing. If there were no law against selling (there is), then buying would be ok, as there is currently no law against buying and there would be no criminal conspiracy. As things are though, buying from an illegal seller would probably be a crime.

FABIO GETS GOOSED!!!
03-05-2013, 8:15 PM
Having been employed in the cash in transit (armored car) business in CA for 22 years all I can say is you better have a heckofa profit margin on those magazines because nobody's making much money being in the business here.

Out of curiosity, in those 22 years have you ever heard of an armored vehicle business selling magazines?

bohoki
03-05-2013, 8:21 PM
Out of curiosity, in those 22 years have you ever heard of an armored vehicle business selling magazines?

well if you lose the ones they issue you
you are billed for them its technically buying them i think

FABIO GETS GOOSED!!!
03-05-2013, 8:23 PM
well if you lose the ones they issue you
you are billed for them its technically buying them i think

You are talking about an armored vehicle employee reimbursing the company for losing a magazine the company loaned to the employee?

DrDavid
03-05-2013, 8:24 PM
Out of curiosity, in those 22 years have you ever heard of an armored vehicle business selling magazines?

I'd be willing to bet that if there WAS an armored vehicle business which was selling high-cap magazines, they'd be making a whole lot money than they'd make as a simple courier for money-bags.... Just saying..

FABIO GETS GOOSED!!!
03-05-2013, 8:29 PM
I'd be willing to bet that if there WAS an armored vehicle business which was selling high-cap magazines, they'd be making a whole lot money than they'd make as a simple courier for money-bags.... Just saying..

From prison? lol.

DrDavid
03-05-2013, 8:36 PM
From prison? lol.

Well, I guess they could sell to people in prison too, as long as it was just misdemeanors... :shrug:

I was thinking that they would sell from the back of the "armored" car..

taperxz
03-05-2013, 8:54 PM
Well, I guess they could sell to people in prison too, as long as it was just misdemeanors... :shrug:

I was thinking that they would sell from the back of the "armored" car..

In order to do that they would need insurance to back that part of the business up, a city that will allow them to sell like an ice cream truck, ability to collect sales tax on those purchases Ect.ect.ect.

Bhobbs
03-07-2013, 6:37 AM
Don't hold your breath.

Not holding my breath. Just curious as to what happened with that whole thing. It seems to get dropped suddenly.