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rp55
02-05-2009, 11:28 AM
Salinas police fire guns during traffic stop. (http://www.montereyherald.com/crime/ci_11633585?nclick_check=1)

Watched this on the local news last night. Unbelievable! Probably won't get widespread attention because no one was hurt. I cannot decide if SPD more incompetent because they panic and open up on an unarmed woman and a guy sitting in stopped car or because they shot up the whole car and didn't hit anything. If these guys represent those who will be sent to seize our guns we have nothing to worry about.

EBR Works
02-05-2009, 11:31 AM
Your link doesn't work.

jb7706
02-05-2009, 11:37 AM
Link works if you tweak it a bit. Here is the article.

Salinas police fire guns during traffic stop
By DANIEL LOPEZ
Herald Staff Writer
Posted: 02/05/2009 01:31:09 AM PST


Two Salinas police officers fired their guns about 11:30p.m. Tuesday after stopping a vehicle near North Sanborn Road and Freedom Parkway, police said.
The officers fired several shots after they "perceived a threat" when contacting the driver and passenger, police said.

No one was hit and no arrests were made. Both officers were placed on paid administrative leave according to department policy.

Cmdr. Dino Bardoni, who leads the department's investigations division, was not available to comment Wednesday.

Cmdr. Al Ruiz, appointed to answer questions in Bardoni's absence, said more information could be released today.

"We are still investigating," he said.

Ruiz said the driver and passenger in the Ford Expedition that was stopped were interviewed and released.

Police said their investigation will be submitted to the Monterey County District Attorney's Office for review when completed.

Tuesday's incident is the second in Salinas this year in which an officer has fired his weapon.

Jesse Pinon, a Monterey County sheriff's deputy assigned to the county gang task force, shot Carlos Fletes, 28, in the hand and stomach Jan. 15.

The Monterey County Sheriff's Office is investigating that shooting.


Daniel Lopez can be reached at 646-4494 or dlopez@montereyherald.com.

Matt C
02-05-2009, 11:44 AM
I "perceive a threat" every time an armed cop approaches me. What happens if I start firing?

acegunnr
02-05-2009, 11:44 AM
It is a war zone.

Here is a google map of all the shootings in Salinas for just this year:eek:

Salinas Shootings 2009 (http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?ie=UTF8&hl=en&msa=0&ll=36.6826,-121.636162&spn=0.088794,0.132866&z=13&msid=117897377987165454804.00046060308dc4f53d5fe&mid=1233862923)

gunrun45
02-05-2009, 11:48 AM
Nice map!
That's pretty cool.

proudamerican831
02-05-2009, 12:23 PM
deleted

jb7706
02-05-2009, 12:24 PM
WTF is going on in Salinas to have that much action? Gang wars? Drugs? Illegals? All the above?

Spelunker
02-05-2009, 12:37 PM
It looks like Salinas Municipal Airport is safe.;)

rp55
02-05-2009, 12:38 PM
WTF is going on in Salinas to have that much action? Gang wars? Drugs? Illegals? All the above?

D. All of the above.

My wife did marketing services in stores there and one was robbed just after she left. She quit after that. Statistically it is more dangerous than Baghdad. The Mayor of Salinas responds to gang violence by asking people to fast for peace. Kind of reminds me of East Palo Alto back in the 90's when the city cops lost control and CHP and San Mateo Sheriff had to take over and clamp down.

FUSIBLE
02-05-2009, 12:50 PM
D. All of the above.

My wife did marketing services in stores there and one was robbed just after she left. She quit after that. Statistically it is more dangerous than Baghdad. The Mayor of Salinas responds to gang violence by asking people to fast for peace. Kind of reminds me of East Palo Alto back in the 90's when the city cops lost control and CHP and San Mateo Sheriff had to take over and clamp down.Surprisingly Richmond PD hasn't gone on a limb and shot somebody yet. But most I have met are pretty well versed and trained to see how people react when confronted my an officer. Also I know a few who also grew up there and know the streets pretty well. In 08' it was pretty bad for the size of the city, there was a large raid in different areas by the FBI going after suspected gang leaders of North Richmonds notorious Project Trojans "shot callers" as LEO's called them. Although a lot of these LEO's have been shot at by these thugs. I grew up in these streets and there are a lot of heartless people there and they don't think twice about robbing you or as a matter of fact even shooting for even hesitating to comply. That is why the 2nd amend. is important and would help in deterring such crimes. My friends father was killed that way right after cashing his check on a Friday ten years ago this year.

proudamerican831
02-05-2009, 12:58 PM
deleted

FUSIBLE
02-05-2009, 12:59 PM
I believe the wise thing for the Sheriff and all police chiefs of Monterey County could do right now is issue CCW to all law abiding citizens that apply. At least potential victims could have a chance.
AMEN!

acegunnr
02-05-2009, 1:07 PM
Nice map!
That's pretty cool.


Here are some more maps. Try typing in your own city in the CrimeReports second link below.

Map: Salinas Shootings Since Jan. 1, 2008 (http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?ie=UTF8&hl=en&msa=0&msid=118029749824297979362.00044add1e614b39a608a&ll=36.694851,-121.637878&spn=0.082586,0.102997&z=13&source=embed)
Link: CrimeReports.com Salinas Map (http://www.crimereports.com/map?search=Salinas%2C+CA)

yellowfin
02-05-2009, 1:26 PM
I believe the wise thing for the Sheriff and all police chiefs of Monterey County could do right now is issue CCW to all law abiding citizens that apply. At least potential victims could have a chance.Which is precisely what they won't do.

C.G.
02-05-2009, 5:52 PM
Which is precisely what they won't do.

Unfortunately, you are right.

Captain Evilstomper
02-05-2009, 6:01 PM
D. All of the above.

My wife did marketing services in stores there and one was robbed just after she left. She quit after that. Statistically it is more dangerous than Baghdad. The Mayor of Salinas responds to gang violence by asking people to fast for peace. Kind of reminds me of East Palo Alto back in the 90's when the city cops lost control and CHP and San Mateo Sheriff had to take over and clamp down.

is that true?
RU F'ing serious?
WTF kind of ineffective hippie bull**** is that?
'hey if you all clap, Tinkerbell will came back to life! and as a side benefit, the terrorists will stop trying to kill us!'

Salty
02-05-2009, 7:28 PM
I believe the wise thing for the Sheriff and all police chiefs of Monterey County could do right now is issue CCW to all law abiding citizens that apply. At least potential victims could have a chance.

+1
The entire Monterey Bay is turning into one big ghetto by the sea very quickly. Read the comments left behind in the cops and courts section of the Santa Cruz Sentinel online and you'll see how upset the residents are. Tourists have no idea how bad it gets once the sun goes down. I know a retired cop from that area who told me that they try very hard to keep things out of the media so as not to scare off the tourists.

Zesty
02-05-2009, 8:42 PM
I live about 15-20 miles south, on the backroads away from all that crap, but yes as far as I know Salinas has one of the highest murder rates(per capita) in the country. The biggest problem, hands-down, is the gangs. I believe there were 25 murders in Salinas in 2008, and 23 of them were known gang members.

At least by in large the right people are dying.

rp55
02-06-2009, 7:35 AM
is that true?
RU F'ing serious?


Serious as cancer.

http://www.ksbw.com/news/17718492/detail.html

Salinas Mayor Asks To 'Fast For Peace'
Mayor Wants To End Violence

SALINAS, Calif. -- Salinas Mayor Dennis Donohue asked people across California to "Fast for Peace" to try and end the violence.

The mayor asked for a similar fast earlier this year within the city of Salinas. He asked mayors throughout the state to get on board.

Mayor Donohue said the fast has worked before to raise awareness and will work again to get the Salinas community together, focused on fighting crime in their neighborhoods.

"It's very important or I wouldn't be standing here," Salinas resident Richard Sterrett said.

After working 23 years as a Soledad Prison correctional officer, Sterrett said crime prevention in his Salinas neighborhood is top priority.

"We ask these young kids because they come in at 18 and that's what picked at my heart. They're 18. I was still in high school at 18. What are you doing in prison?" Sterrett said.

That's why Sterrett said he's planning on joining the citywide initiative to fast for peace.

"There's nothing set. It doesn't mean you don't eat it could be a day you give up one thing or you give up coffee," Donohue said.

Early Tuesday night, the city council unanimously approved the resolution and declared Nov. 16 through Nov. 22 "Fasting for Peace" week in hopes of galvanizing community members to take action against Salinas crime.

"I've experienced several losses in my life and burying your child is heartbreaking, so this is important," said Debbie Aguilar, who lost a son to gang violence.

The mayor held the first "Fasting for Peace" week back in July -- an effort he said attracted more than 5,000 participants.

"It's meant to be a tool for a call for action. Historically, fasts -- whether it's religious or otherwise -- have been a time-honored attraction to bringing about social change," Donohue said.

But Sterrett said the fast alone isn't enough to spur social change. As an example, Sterrett said he's trying to start up a gang prevention program in Salinas' schools, telling kids what he's seen after working 23 years in a prison alongside young inmates.

"Tell them they don't have to get involved with that (violence)," Sterrett said.

Donohue said the next step is making this a statewide initiative. On Oct. 29, he's set to make an official proposal to the 12 other cities in the state's crime prevention network including Sacramento, Oakland, Los Angeles at a Berkeley conference.

big1tonsub
02-06-2009, 12:51 PM
Off track here but for all of the Monterey County people posting who is doing your OLL transfers if you are getting them locally?

SwissFluCase
02-06-2009, 12:58 PM
Serious as cancer.

http://www.ksbw.com/news/17718492/detail.html

Salinas Mayor Asks To 'Fast For Peace'
Mayor Wants To End Violence

SALINAS, Calif. -- Salinas Mayor Dennis Donohue asked people across California to "Fast for Peace" to try and end the violence.

The mayor asked for a similar fast earlier this year within the city of Salinas. He asked mayors throughout the state to get on board.

Mayor Donohue said the fast has worked before to raise awareness and will work again to get the Salinas community together, focused on fighting crime in their neighborhoods.

"It's very important or I wouldn't be standing here," Salinas resident Richard Sterrett said.

After working 23 years as a Soledad Prison correctional officer, Sterrett said crime prevention in his Salinas neighborhood is top priority.

"We ask these young kids because they come in at 18 and that's what picked at my heart. They're 18. I was still in high school at 18. What are you doing in prison?" Sterrett said.

That's why Sterrett said he's planning on joining the citywide initiative to fast for peace.

"There's nothing set. It doesn't mean you don't eat it could be a day you give up one thing or you give up coffee," Donohue said.

Early Tuesday night, the city council unanimously approved the resolution and declared Nov. 16 through Nov. 22 "Fasting for Peace" week in hopes of galvanizing community members to take action against Salinas crime.

"I've experienced several losses in my life and burying your child is heartbreaking, so this is important," said Debbie Aguilar, who lost a son to gang violence.

The mayor held the first "Fasting for Peace" week back in July -- an effort he said attracted more than 5,000 participants.

"It's meant to be a tool for a call for action. Historically, fasts -- whether it's religious or otherwise -- have been a time-honored attraction to bringing about social change," Donohue said.

But Sterrett said the fast alone isn't enough to spur social change. As an example, Sterrett said he's trying to start up a gang prevention program in Salinas' schools, telling kids what he's seen after working 23 years in a prison alongside young inmates.

"Tell them they don't have to get involved with that (violence)," Sterrett said.

Donohue said the next step is making this a statewide initiative. On Oct. 29, he's set to make an official proposal to the 12 other cities in the state's crime prevention network including Sacramento, Oakland, Los Angeles at a Berkeley conference.

On October 29th I will be eatling live bunnies in hopes to increase my agression levels to assist in fending off any criminal attack to myself of my family. :43:

Seriously, how could shots be fired with no arrests or dead subjects?

Regards,


SwissFluCase

nooner
02-06-2009, 8:57 PM
Here are some more maps. Try typing in your own city in the CrimeReports second link below.

Map: Salinas Shootings Since Jan. 1, 2008 (http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?ie=UTF8&hl=en&msa=0&msid=118029749824297979362.00044add1e614b39a608a&ll=36.694851,-121.637878&spn=0.082586,0.102997&z=13&source=embed)
Link: CrimeReports.com Salinas Map (http://www.crimereports.com/map?search=Salinas%2C+CA)

My city doesn't show up.

7x57
02-06-2009, 11:24 PM
On October 29th I will be eatling live bunnies in hopes to increase my agression levels to assist in fending off any criminal attack to myself of my family. :43:


One word: tularemia! :eek:

7x57

rtlltj
02-07-2009, 12:14 AM
Off track here but for all of the Monterey County people posting who is doing your OLL transfers if you are getting them locally?

Drive to San Jose cause you won't have any luck here.

Did someone say Salinas shootings? What else is new.

Meplat
02-07-2009, 12:17 AM
Total incompetence, deadly incompetence.:eek:

Seriously, how could shots be fired with no arrests or dead subjects?

Regards,


SwissFluCase

Meplat
02-07-2009, 12:20 AM
Just don't eat the liver.:thumbsup:


One word: tularemia! :eek:

7x57

rp55
02-21-2009, 12:05 PM
Here's an update on the story. They moved really quick and were rather forthcoming. Not surprising given the scary details.

http://www.montereyherald.com/ci_11755371?nclick_check=1

Salinas officer who fired gun during traffic stop is let go
Chief Ortega admits police shot at SUV in error
By DANIEL LOPEZ
Updated: 02/21/2009 01:32:24 AM PST

Salinas police say they can't explain why a recently hired officer thought he was shot during a traffic stop Feb. 3.

Officer Christopher Swanson, 36, fell to the ground and started shooting, which caused fellow officer Steven Mattocks, 24, to fire at an unarmed man and woman in a sport utility vehicle that Swanson stopped for a faulty license plate light.

Neither the driver of the Ford Expedition, Adriana Velazquez, 25, nor her passenger, Julio Hernandez, 30, were hit by the shots. The officers were unharmed. Police said there was no gun in the Expedition and no evidence of a shot fired.

"It appears that we are in error here," Police Chief Dan Ortega said Friday at a news conference, speaking for the first time about details of the shooting. "We do make mistakes at times."

Swanson was terminated Wednesday from the department, teary-eyed Ortega announced during the conference.

Police couldn't say when Swanson was hired, but he had not finished the 12-month probationary period required of new officers.

Ortega said he was unaware of Swanson having any disciplinary issues since he joined the department.

"His performance had been OK," Ortega said. "I've never seen anything like this."

Before he worked in Salinas, Swanson was a police officer in Texas for five years. He spent 14 years in the Marine Corps, including two tours of Iraq, Ortega said.

Swanson passed all background and testing requirements, including a psychological evaluation, before he was hired.

After stopping the Expedition about 11:30 p.m. on Sanborn Road near Freedom Parkway, Swanson was on the SUV's driver side asking Velazquez for her license, registration and proof of insurance. He asked Hernandez for his identification.

Mattocks arrived in another patrol car and was standing to the right rear of the Expedition. He could see into the vehicle but could not hear the conversation between Swanson and the SUV's occupants.

Swanson told investigators that while Hernandez was retrieving his wallet, he heard a pop, saw a muzzle flash and felt a hit on his right upper chest.

"Officer Mattocks did not hear a shot, but observed officer Swanson fall to the ground and yell, 'I've been shot!'" Ortega said.

Mattocks said he saw Hernandez reach across the vehicle's console holding what appeared to be a firearm. Swanson and Mattocks shot into the Expedition, and the incident happened in seconds, Ortega said.

Velazquez and Hernandez were helpless in the SUV, said Omar James, an Aptos attorney representing them.

"It's amazing that neither one of them was killed," he said.

James said he has a hard time understanding Swanson's account of the events.

"It's almost an unbelievable story," he said. "To think that (Velazquez and Hernandez) were shot at that close range. ... What caused him to do that?"

Velazquez and Hernandez were questioned by police after the shooting and released without a citation.

James said he plans to file a claim against the city and the police department for violation of his clients' constitutional rights, assault and battery, and emotional distress.

Ortega said he has contacted James in hopes of speaking to Velazquez and Hernandez. He wants to offer them an apology and speak to them about what happened.

James said that, while Ortega's gesture is appreciated, it is too early for them to meet with the police chief.

"My clients are still very distraught over this situation," he said. "They are just confused (about why they were shot at)."

Ortega said his detectives have completed their investigation and a report will be sent to the county District Attorney's Office on Monday for review. Prosecutors could potentially file criminal charges against Swanson.

Mattocks, who has been with the department about two years, remains on paid administrative leave. He is the officer who fatally shot a woman in July after she lunged at him and another officer with what they thought was a knife or an ice pick. The object turned out to be a crochet hook.

Mattocks was allowed to return to patrol duties after the internal investigation of the July shooting found no wrongdoing on his part, Ortega said. Prosecutors are reviewing that report.

Ortega said investigation of the SUV shooting indicates Mattocks acted according to his training and did nothing wrong. When asked about Swanson's conduct and use of force, Ortega wouldn't comment.

"The community is going to hold us accountable and that's my job to hold individual officers accountable," Ortega said.

proudamerican831
02-21-2009, 1:14 PM
deleted

DDT
02-21-2009, 1:49 PM
Salinas police say they can't explain why a recently hired officer thought he was shot during a traffic stop Feb. 3.

Officer Christopher Swanson, 36, fell to the ground and started shooting, which caused fellow officer Steven Mattocks, 24, to fire at an unarmed man and woman in a sport utility vehicle that Swanson stopped for a faulty license plate light.


Perhaps this is why he thought he was shot....


http://monster-island.org/tinashumor/humor/bisbrain.html

TheBundo
02-21-2009, 3:15 PM
Perhaps this is why he thought he was shot....


http://monster-island.org/tinashumor/humor/bisbrain.html

LOL, that is funny. As to the officer, I wonder if it was some post-tramatic stress from Iraq or something. The other officer, who also killed a lady with a crochet hook - it seems he's getting a record of being a little too quick to be willing to shoot at people, IMO

Swiss
02-21-2009, 3:33 PM
My wife grew up in Seaside and by her description it's always been a ghetto in that area.

The entire Monterey Bay is turning into one big ghetto by the sea very quickly. Read the comments left behind in the cops and courts section of the Santa Cruz Sentinel online and you'll see how upset the residents are. Tourists have no idea how bad it gets once the sun goes down. I know a retired cop from that area who told me that they try very hard to keep things out of the media so as not to scare off the tourists.

JDoe
02-21-2009, 7:39 PM
Swanson told investigators that while Hernandez was retrieving his wallet, he heard a pop, saw a muzzle flash and felt a hit on his right upper chest.

PTSD or whatever is ailing Swanson is a krappy thing to deal with. I hope he can get the help he needs.

Blue
02-21-2009, 7:42 PM
WTF is going on in Salinas to have that much action? Gang wars? Drugs? Illegals? All the above?

LOTS and LOTS of illegals.

Meplat
02-21-2009, 9:33 PM
Most LEOs go their whole careers without firing their guns. When one guy has several incidents in a short time people start to wonder. I know one Kern Co. deputy that had that problem. It was just the luck of the draw, but became a stigma, none the less.



LOL, that is funny. As to the officer, I wonder if it was some post-tramatic stress from Iraq or something. The other officer, who also killed a lady with a crochet hook - it seems he's getting a record of being a little too quick to be willing to shoot at people, IMO

cousinkix1953
02-22-2009, 2:07 AM
It is a war zone.

Here is a google map of all the shootings in Salinas for just this year:eek:

Salinas Shootings 2009 (http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?ie=UTF8&hl=en&msa=0&ll=36.6826,-121.636162&spn=0.088794,0.132866&z=13&msid=117897377987165454804.00046060308dc4f53d5fe&mid=1233862923)
I saw the police chief doing a crybaby act on KSBW on Friday night. He lives in crime infested sanctuary city. Corrupt anti-gun politicians, refuse to call ICE; when an illegal alien gangster is arrested with an illegal gun. The Brady bunch actively supports candidates, who won't enforce a federal gun law on the books since a PLO terrorist murdered Robert Kennedy in front of live TV cameras in 1968.

Illegal aliens are not allowed to have firearms. They cannot purchase guns with a Mexican drivers license. Brain dead reporters and stupid PC politicians continue walking around, with their heads where the sun don't shine...

cousinkix1953
02-22-2009, 2:30 AM
The entire Monterey Bay is turning into one big ghetto by the sea very quickly. Read the comments left behind in the cops and courts section of the Santa Cruz Sentinel online and you'll see how upset the residents are. Tourists have no idea how bad it gets once the sun goes down. I know a retired cop from that area who told me that they try very hard to keep things out of the media so as not to scare off the tourists.
Welcome to another one of these crime infested sanctuary cities; where corrupt stoned hippie politicians, won't call ICE if illegal aliens are caught with illegal guns.

Somebody should scare the tourists, by simulcasting the Santa Cruz police and sheriff's noisy radios on the internet. Monterey county set aside a tactical frequency just to deal with these damned gang bangers and their war. You won't hear any routine boring stuff on 153.815 mhz.

proudamerican831
02-22-2009, 2:46 AM
deleted

Seesm
02-22-2009, 11:59 AM
I was racing at Laguna Seca raceway last year and a guard saw me wearing a red hat and said

"I would NOT wear that in town cuz the gang guys shoot anyone with red hat"...

How crazy is that... ?

Maverick831
02-22-2009, 10:56 PM
I live 10 minutes from Salinas. I heard people are moving out of Salinas and into my small town because of the violence. They're bringing their gang affiliated children with them to :no:

Maverick831
02-22-2009, 11:11 PM
My wife grew up in Seaside and by her description it's always been a ghetto in that area.

Seaside was worse than Salinas at one point. Mostly in the 1970's. There used to be a huge family rivalry.

cmmgar15
02-22-2009, 11:40 PM
i am 25 born and raised in salinas.i have had friends shot and killed,ive had loaded guns pointed at me,been the victim of a hit and run and burglary/home invasion while in my home.ive had multiple death threats by known gang members.ive been beat up and robbed. ALL and more(too much to list) while i was in high school.north salinas high to be exact.i now live on the east side of salinas with my wife and best friend.and the funny thing is it is almost safer for a white guy like me to live on the east side.i have lived in the east side for 3+ years and not really any big problems.i dont understand it...but bet you ***** im ready for whatever they wanna trow at me.

rp55
07-25-2009, 10:57 AM
Update on this today. 5 months later the LEO who started shooting was charged with a felony for discharging a firearm in a grossly negligent manner.

Former Salinas officer charged in traffic-stop gunfire (http://www.montereyherald.com/local/ci_12913375?nclick_check=1)

A former Salinas police officer has been charged with a felony for shooting his gun at an unarmed couple during a February traffic stop.

Christopher Swanson, who was an officer in Salinas for less than a year, is scheduled to appear in Monterey County Superior Court on Aug. 11 to be arraigned on the single charge of discharging a firearm in a grossly negligent manner.

He was terminated from the Police Department after the incident in which no one was hurt.

District Attorney Dean Flippo said the charge against Swanson was filed Friday after an exhaustive review of reports from Salinas police about the shooting.

"We have concluded, as it relates to former officer Swanson, that his actions were unreasonable," Flippo said.

He declined to elaborate.

"That's part of the evidence that will be presented in court," he said.

Salinas officer Steven Mattocks, who was assisting Swanson on the traffic stop and fired his gun, will not face charges. He has since returned to duty. Flippo said Mattocks was justified in shooting because he thought he was defending Swanson.

Two weeks after the shooting, then-Police Chief Dan Ortega said Swanson fell to the ground and yelled, "I've been shot." Both officers started shooting at the Ford Expedition that Swanson had pulled over.

Driver Adrian Velasquez and passenger Julio Hernandez, both of Salinas, ducked inside the SUV when the shooting started, their Aptos attorney Omar James said.

James said he and the ity of Salinas are negotiating a possible out-of-court settlement for damages.

According to police, Swanson stopped the Expedition about 11:30 p.m. Feb. 3 on Sanborn Road near Freedom Parkway because the license plate's light was broken.

Swanson was on the driver's side asking Velasquez for her license, registration and proof of insurance, and asked Hernandez for his identification.

Mattocks arrived in another patrol car and was standing to the right rear of the Expedition. He could see into the vehicle, but couldn't hear the conversation between Swanson and the SUV's occupants.

Swanson told investigators that while Hernandez was retrieving his wallet, he heard a pop, saw a muzzle flash and felt he was shot on his right upper chest. Neither Velasquez nor Hernandez were armed.

Police said they can't explain why Swanson reacted the way he did.

He was hired by the Salinas Police Department less than 12 months earlier and passed all background and testing requirements, including a psychological evaluation, Ortega said after the shooting.

Swanson was a police officer in Texas for five years and spent 14 years in the Marine Corps, including two tours of Iraq.

He has not been arrested and is expected to voluntarily surrender himself for booking at the county jail before his court date, Flippo said. If convicted, Swanson faces up to three years in state prison.

spastic
07-25-2009, 11:27 AM
So I guess if one were to shoot up a police car full of cops in Salinas, they would only get charged with negligent discharge? Or does this only apply when the cops shoot into a car full of us civilian peons? :rolleyes:

JDoe
07-25-2009, 11:38 AM
Looks like Salinas might be throwing the cop under the bus to save themselves from even larger damages than they are negotiating now.

retired
07-25-2009, 1:07 PM
LOL, that is funny. As to the officer, I wonder if it was some post-tramatic stress from Iraq or something. The other officer, who also killed a lady with a crochet hook - it seems he's getting a record of being a little too quick to be willing to shoot at people, IMO

That really is a ludicrous statement as to the 2nd officer. He is on one side of the car and his partner is on the other. The partner falls to the ground and says I've been shot. What would you expect officer Mattocks to do. What would you do if you were he and you heard your partner say he was shot. Take out your notebook and write that down, run around to the other side of the car and check on your partner, exposing yourself to what you believe (based on your partner's statements) is a person with a gun.

Officer Mattocks reaction was based on his training and he acted properly based on the totality of the circumstances as presented to him at that time.

Furthermore, re the first shooting incident he (Mattocks) was involved in where the woman attacked him with a crochet needle; do you know what they look like. Here is a link to some pics of some. Notice they come to a point on one end. If I had someone come at me with one of those when I was in patrol, I would have shot them also and been entirely justified in doing so.

http://www.joann.com/joann/catalog.jsp?CATID=cat2705

Maestro Pistolero
07-25-2009, 1:41 PM
What is it with this thread? Not a single link to the story works.

GaryV
07-25-2009, 1:45 PM
I lived in Monterey for a large portion of my life (stationed there in the army, did my grad school there, etc.). In the '70s, '80s, and '90s, while towns like Seaside (until Planet Ord closed down) and Salinas were always cesspools, Monterey and PG were really nice places (Monterey had some shady areas, but nothing like Seaside or Salinas). I never worried about walking alone late at night anywhere around there. I went back to visit friends about 4 years ago, and took a late night walk from PG down past the wharf. I passed more than a few questionable-looking thug types, several of whom were clearly paying more than a healthy degree of attention as I walked by. The whole areas is definitely not changing for the better.

SAN compnerd
07-25-2009, 1:46 PM
Although the press made a point I am sure of trying to vilify the cop for shooting someone with a crochet needle, if it were in the hands of any member of this board it could most certainly cause a fatal wound to the neck or even the chest. I am sure an angry woman could 'get lucky' and deliver a fatal blow with this instrument. I would not have hesitated.

thatrogue
07-26-2009, 5:56 AM
I'm a Recovery Agent my partner (work separately) had a guy unload a full handgun magazine on him @ 75 yards and all they charged him with was negligent discharge because he didn't land any lead.

I also travel through Salinas from time to time with quite a bit of loot as I coming or going from pismo, I always have polymer, steel, and lead at the ready till I'm back on the freeway

Maestro Pistolero
07-26-2009, 11:17 AM
What is it with this thread? Not a single link to the story works.
Here, allow me:
This resulted in felony discharge of a firearm:
http://www.ksbw.com/news/20170380/detail.html
http://www.thecalifornian.com/article/20090725/NEWS01/907250310/0/NEWSFRONT2/DA-files-charges-against-ex-Salinas-cop
http://www.kcba.com/Global/story.asp?S=10787053

bboyin4food
07-26-2009, 11:41 AM
i remember when this happened. i live right on that corner. i believe it was only a month or so after some armed gang members ran through my back yard trying to get away from police after they had shot some other people. broad daylight too around 3:00PM. fully geared SWAT team outside my house

my mom has always been pretty anti-gun up until that moment :). just a simple conversation about what might have gone different that day, if they decided to use our house as a hiding place (back door was unlocked :mad:) changed her mind. now i cant get her off the range!

i am really fed up with this city. ive lived here pretty much all my life and there is not a moment im not worried, even when at home.

wildhawker
07-26-2009, 12:45 PM
As to the officer, I wonder if it was some post-tramatic stress from Iraq or something.

This is why I have serious concerns about the long-held tradition of hiring ex-mil for civilian policing.

wildhawker
07-26-2009, 12:53 PM
I don't know, did you hear a shot? (No.) Did you identify a threat before you shot? (No.) Did you acquire a target or did you simply begin slinging lead in a purely emotional response? (Latter.) Were both driver and passenger targets or only one? (Undetermined.) How did you determine which? (Undetermined.)

Not a single shot even grazed either of the two 'suspects'. I expect my paid law enforcement to respond professionally. Nothing about this was professional. What about this was a response based on training and tactics?


That really is a ludicrous statement as to the 2nd officer. He is on one side of the car and his partner is on the other. The partner falls to the ground and says I've been shot. What would you expect officer Mattocks to do. What would you do if you were he and you heard your partner say he was shot. Take out your notebook and write that down, run around to the other side of the car and check on your partner, exposing yourself to what you believe (based on your partner's statements) is a person with a gun.

Officer Mattocks reaction was based on his training and he acted properly based on the totality of the circumstances as presented to him at that time.

Furthermore, re the first shooting incident he (Mattocks) was involved in where the woman attacked him with a crochet needle; do you know what they look like. Here is a link to some pics of some. Notice they come to a point on one end. If I had someone come at me with one of those when I was in patrol, I would have shot them also and been entirely justified in doing so.

http://www.joann.com/joann/catalog.jsp?CATID=cat2705

tazmanian devil dog
07-26-2009, 2:54 PM
Salinas is full of POS illegals and gang members!! Waste of good breathing oxygen if you ask me.

Irrational Voice
07-26-2009, 9:11 PM
I don't know, did you hear a shot? (No.) Did you identify a threat before you shot? (No.) Did you acquire a target or did you simply begin slinging lead in a purely emotional response? (Latter.) Were both driver and passenger targets or only one? (Undetermined.) How did you determine which? (Undetermined.)

Not a single shot even grazed either of the two 'suspects'. I expect my paid law enforcement to respond professionally. Nothing about this was professional. What about this was a response based on training and tactics?

Half right. If officer A goes down and fires yelling he's been shot it is unlikely officer B knows exactly which shot was fired by who. Depending upon the actual circumstances I would fully expect Officer B to have unloaded on the car and killed the 2 occupants. Once an officer says he's been shot and is returning fire responding officers can't be required to see the firearm and/or wait to be fired on.

You are right though that missing completely is unprofessional and the occupants should be dead. Unarmed in a car with officers less than 5 ft. from the vehicle and no one is injured. That second officer should be sent to range duty until he can actually kill people when unloading his gun from 10 ft. away.

wildhawker
07-26-2009, 11:17 PM
Fair enough from the perspective of proceedural status quo, but (philosophically speaking) I believe that a greater standard (or at the very least an equal one) should be applied to [professional] police shoots. Let's replace Officer B with "Concerned Citizen W" in this same situation, shooting (wildly) at 2 unarmed persons after reacting only to the fact that Officer 1 fell and stated that he was shot. Would 'CCW' be back at work the next day? Would 'CCW' likely be facing criminal charges in today's world?

If it's not good enough for me, it's not good enough for them. I might take it a step farther than that, actually, but would be glad to see standards applied equally.

Half right. If officer A goes down and fires yelling he's been shot it is unlikely officer B knows exactly which shot was fired by who. Depending upon the actual circumstances I would fully expect Officer B to have unloaded on the car and killed the 2 occupants. Once an officer says he's been shot and is returning fire responding officers can't be required to see the firearm and/or wait to be fired on.

You are right though that missing completely is unprofessional and the occupants should be dead. Unarmed in a car with officers less than 5 ft. from the vehicle and no one is injured. That second officer should be sent to range duty until he can actually kill people when unloading his gun from 10 ft. away.

Look Wat I kAn DO !
07-27-2009, 1:14 AM
You won't get shoot if you are wearing red or a blue . Like they say if you go looking for trouble you will find it , some places it's just easier.
What really gets to me is that there is alot of dumb and lazy parents that don't give 2 cents about there kids and let them do what ever and that's then the problems happen.

Irrational Voice
07-27-2009, 1:27 AM
If it's not good enough for me, it's not good enough for them. I might take it a step farther than that, actually, but would be glad to see standards applied equally.

You can't have it both ways. If the police have the obligation to patrol and put themselves in danger then they must have the right to defend themselves and their partners. Concerned Citizen W has the option of NOT being in this situation Officer B is required to be there.

There are so many times where a police officer acts out line wrt our gun rights that it is easy to lose sight of those times where their job puts them directly in more dangerous situations than Citizen W.

What happened was a tragedy and the officer who fell to the ground and claimed to be shot has to be dealt with, either PTSD or criminal, but his backup has got to be able to rely on his partner until he is shown to be unreliable. Unfortunately that is exactly what happened. In this particular incident blame seems to have been meted out in the correct direction.

wildhawker
07-27-2009, 1:46 AM
They don't have any obligation outside of the collective bargaining contract they signed. It's a chosen profession performed by highly-compensated employees at the behest of tax-paying citizens who desire a public police force with sworn officers to uphold the law.

All professions have inherent risk, some greater than others. I can think of quite a number of careers which endanger the life of the person performing the service at equal or greater risk as law enforcement; such choices do not justify the protections and privileges currently afforded law enforcement personnel that are not afforded the common citizen.

Police have the right to defend themselves, as do we all. However, this officer (B) did not defend anything, and he should be handled as any one of us would be. Your assertion that CCW has an 'option' to not be present for an unplanned event is asinine.

You can't have it both ways. If the police have the obligation to patrol and put themselves in danger then they must have the right to defend themselves and their partners. Concerned Citizen W has the option of NOT being in this situation Officer B is required to be there.

There are so many times where a police officer acts out line wrt our gun rights that it is easy to lose sight of those times where their job puts them directly in more dangerous situations than Citizen W.

What happened was a tragedy and the officer who fell to the ground and claimed to be shot has to be dealt with, either PTSD or criminal, but his backup has got to be able to rely on his partner until he is shown to be unreliable. Unfortunately that is exactly what happened. In this particular incident blame seems to have been meted out in the correct direction.

Doheny
07-27-2009, 1:56 AM
Whatever happens, he's done as a cop. He's been there less then a year; he's on probation and my guess is they won't keep him around.

.

Irrational Voice
07-27-2009, 1:59 AM
Police have the right to defend themselves, as do we all. However, this officer (B) did not defend anything, and he should be handled as any one of us would be. Your assertion that CCW has an 'option' to not be present for an unplanned event is asinine.

I made no such assertion about "unplanned" events. I said that the police officer is obliged to interact with potentially dangerous individuals in a potentially confrontational manner. The traffic stop was planned I will not apply asinine to your response though, it would be impolite. I will give you the courtesy you denied me.

wildhawker
07-27-2009, 2:11 AM
The context of my hypothetical (replacing the LEO with a concerned citizen - a 'morally obligated' citizen, if you will - who responded in the same manner as did officer B) was such that any 'option' person CCW may or may not have had was irrelevant. The point was to contrast the official handling of officer B versus that of a citizen.

I apologize for referring to your statement as asinine, which was probably the wrong tact for this conversation.

I made no such assertion about "unplanned" events. I said that the police officer is obliged to interact with potentially dangerous individuals in a potentially confrontational manner. The traffic stop was planned I will not apply asinine to your response though, it would be impolite. I will give you the courtesy you denied me.

Irrational Voice
07-27-2009, 12:52 PM
The context of my hypothetical (replacing the LEO with a concerned citizen - a 'morally obligated' citizen, if you will - who responded in the same manner as did officer B) was such that any 'option' person CCW may or may not have had was irrelevant. The point was to contrast the official handling of officer B versus that of a citizen.

So, you're saying that if you are carrying and want to take out the issue of "optionally" being in the situation and your wife is standing at the window of car and you're at the far corner so you can't directly see her and you see her fall to the ground and hear gun fire with her yelling "they shot me!" you're going to wait and look for a firearm and/or see what the people do next rather than open fire to defend your wife's life?

I apologize for referring to your statement as asinine, which was probably the wrong tact for this conversation.

Accepted and forgotten.

wildhawker
07-27-2009, 12:59 PM
Legally, I'd likely be required to prove the circumstances of the shoot were clean. Simply expressing concern for my wife by emptying a mag at two suspects would probably not be acceptable to the DA.

Emotionally, there's no doubt that a reaction such as the one by officer B would more often than not be the case.

This all really goes to the fact that officer B's response was more emotional than one of training and professionalism. Again, I expect that the paid police force uses at least, if not more, care in the course of their duties than untrained civilians.

I'm not sure I read anywhere that officer B heard shots first, and am pretty sure I read that he stated he did not, in fact, hear shots before firing upon the suspects (although I could be mistaken, I'll re-read).

So, you're saying that if you are carrying and want to take out the issue of "optionally" being in the situation and your wife is standing at the window of car and you're at the far corner so you can't directly see her and you see her fall to the ground and hear gun fire with her yelling "they shot me!" you're going to wait and look for a firearm and/or see what the people do next rather than open fire to defend your wife's life?



Accepted and forgotten.

Irrational Voice
07-27-2009, 1:05 PM
I'm not sure I read anywhere that officer B heard shots first, and am pretty sure I read that he stated he did not, in fact, hear shots before firing upon the suspects (although I could be mistaken, I'll re-read).

My understanding is that officer A "returned" fire first. Either way, in that same situation 8 out of 10 times officer B opens fire. I presume the patrol car caught the incident on camera. If you were in the same situation as a private citizen I suspect you'd be in the same place as officer B if it was all on tape.

If it wasn't on tape then police officers are often given deference as more reliable witnesses than joe citizen because their job is on the line every time they give witness and they are presumably trained to observe which theoretically makes them more reliable. I'm not saying there aren't bad cops out there but the vast majority are trying to do their jobs and are conscientious public servants.

M. Sage
07-27-2009, 1:06 PM
I'm kind of wondering why this officer is no longer a LEO in Texas. This state has a tendency to weed out the bad ones and send them packing, so I'm kind of leery of "used to be a police officer in Texas".

wildhawker
07-27-2009, 1:43 PM
My understanding is that officer A "returned" fire first. Either way, in that same situation 8 out of 10 times officer B opens fire. I presume the patrol car caught the incident on camera. If you were in the same situation as a private citizen I suspect you'd be in the same place as officer B if it was all on tape.

If it wasn't on tape then police officers are often given deference as more reliable witnesses than joe citizen because their job is on the line every time they give witness and they are presumably trained to observe which theoretically makes them more reliable. I'm not saying there aren't bad cops out there but the vast majority are trying to do their jobs and are conscientious public servants.

No doubt in my mind at all.

movie zombie
07-27-2009, 2:15 PM
odd, but i sort of feel sorry for Swanson: two tours in Iraq and i wonder if he's got a severe case of post-stress going on.....what he described as happening, its as if he's reliving something that happened in Iraq.

doesn't make it right what he did but puttiing these guys into LE positions may be a disservice not only to the public but to them......

mz

Glock22Fan
07-27-2009, 4:56 PM
Wildhawker,

It is clear to me that you haven't had a lot of real contact with police officers and police work.

I freely admit that statistically there are more dangerous jobs - deep sea fishermen, farmworkers and many more. But some officers do get killed on duty, and they are all aware of this.

Police work, especially routine patrols, is perhaps similar to how I once heard an airline pilot describe his job. 99.9% boredom, 0.1% blind panic.

However, and here you are wrong, officers do not have the luxury of determining that traffic stops are optional. Also, absolutely, they are required to back up their colleagues without hesitation. Any officer who is seen to hang back at this is likely to find that his (or her) six isn't covered when they need it to be in turn.

And traffic stops can go wrong at the drop of a hat. Once the bad guy starts pulling a gun, you could be dead before you react. Go and do some role playing at police training sessions if you can - sometimes police, like our sheriff department, do community academy classes that will give you a taste. You might well wonder how the police manage to get through their day.

My guess is that you wouldn't remember how many shots were fired, let alone who shot them if you were in that situation. I haven't been there "for real" either, but I think that the stress and adrenaline would affect my ability to do a logical analysis as you seem to think should be done.

As far as the bad shooting is concerned, this is, to me, the biggest worry. But not totally surprising.

wildhawker
07-28-2009, 12:03 AM
It's clear from us having a philosophical difference?

Highway workers get killed and maimed on the job every year, but they can't open fire at every idiot and drunk who may graze their work zone (or worse).

Here is where we disagree:
Also, absolutely, they are required to back up their colleagues without hesitation. Any officer who is seen to hang back at this is likely to find that his (or her) six isn't covered when they need it to be in turn.

I can appreciate the politics of the profession, but that doesn't mean I must condone it or that it justifies what would otherwise be a felonious act.

Never once have I considered law enforcement as a career, nor have I considered nursing, fuel tank welding, window washer or crab fisherman. I made that choice of my own accord, just as those entering the field do.

Never have I meant to imply that the job is easy. However, when we're talking about an armed law enforcement officer who gets paid to do the job he chose, I do expect that they function at a higher level of awareness and professionalism than as represented by the Salinas PD (and, I believe, most do). If we make exceptions for every emotional "whoops" and loss of composure, we might as well move to an untrained volunteer civilian force.

Wildhawker,

It is clear to me that you haven't had a lot of real contact with police officers and police work.

I freely admit that statistically there are more dangerous jobs - deep sea fishermen, farmworkers and many more. But some officers do get killed on duty, and they are all aware of this.

Police work, especially routine patrols, is perhaps similar to how I once heard an airline pilot describe his job. 99.9% boredom, 0.1% blind panic.

However, and here you are wrong, officers do not have the luxury of determining that traffic stops are optional. Also, absolutely, they are required to back up their colleagues without hesitation. Any officer who is seen to hang back at this is likely to find that his (or her) six isn't covered when they need it to be in turn.

And traffic stops can go wrong at the drop of a hat. Once the bad guy starts pulling a gun, you could be dead before you react. Go and do some role playing at police training sessions if you can - sometimes police, like our sheriff department, do community academy classes that will give you a taste. You might well wonder how the police manage to get through their day.

My guess is that you wouldn't remember how many shots were fired, let alone who shot them if you were in that situation. I haven't been there "for real" either, but I think that the stress and adrenaline would affect my ability to do a logical analysis as you seem to think should be done.

As far as the bad shooting is concerned, this is, to me, the biggest worry. But not totally surprising.