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View Full Version : "Showing your firearms" etiquette


NiteQwill
02-04-2009, 11:22 PM
Anyone ever have a problem with folks who just don't treat your stuff politely if you happen to say, "Sure, take a look at this XXX gun I have/just bought!"

My example is as follows...
I have this friend who has a longtime douchebag boyfriend. Both are into shooting. I decided to bring them to the range on the weekend.

I proceed to show her BF my 1911s since he has never shot one. I say, "Sure, take a look at it but please don't slam the slide into battery."

What does he do? :cool2:

Locks the slide and slams it forward home! Twice! (I was talking to my friend about 10 feet away)

I promptly walk over and grab it from him and tell him why he did exactly what I asked him not to do. He proceeds to tell me "big deal" and basically f-off. :eek:

Told my friend goodbye and said, "I won't be shooting with your douchebag boyfriend next to me since he can't respect other folks stuff."

She called me a few hours ago to apologize for her BF. Found out that he eventually destroyed another hanger in a different lane and had to fork up money to pay for the damage after I left. :D What an idiot...

/rant

ck867
02-04-2009, 11:29 PM
haha

Gunaria
02-04-2009, 11:34 PM
You already knew he was a db in the first place but still went anyway. I understand you were trying to be a nice guy. Good story nontheless.

SwissFluCase
02-04-2009, 11:37 PM
No I haven't, but I am pretty selective who I show firearms to. I understand if they are new and the skill isn't there, but if I sense a lack of judgement, it's a no go.

Then again, I'm also intimidating or charismatic (I forgot which) enough that people act right in my presence.

Regards,


SwissFluCase

jlh95811
02-04-2009, 11:38 PM
Take his girl :thumbsup:

Dr Rockso
02-04-2009, 11:41 PM
Lame that he would do that after you specifically told him not to.

When I was first shopping for a handgun I didn't know that releasing the slide on an empty chamber could damage the extractor. I think I did it with every gun I handled at a couple of gun shops. The clerks never said anything to me. Knowing that uninformed noobs are abusing them makes me not want to buy one that's been sitting in the display case for any length of time.

jlh95811
02-04-2009, 11:53 PM
I didn't know that releasing the slide on an empty chamber could damage the extractor

As far as I know dropping the slide on an empty chamber will not damage an extractor at all. It is dropping it on a loaded chamber that is said to do so. It causes the extractor to slam on and around the rim of the case in order to accept the lip for extraction after firing.

Because of this it is best to ease the slide foward lightly when closing on a loaded chamber. Or better yet, if possible, load your first round from the magazine then release the mag and load the final round into it.


Dropping the slide on an empty chamber is not a good habit BUT is not an issue for most guns. Especially not a Kimber. Unless it has trigger work.

With a highly tuned trigger it IS a BAD idea. The sear/disconnector/hammer engagements have been filed down to make just slight contact which makes the trigger light and crisp. Dropping the slide on the empty chamber in a gun with trigger work can throw these now very sensitive engaements of parts out of wack due to the extra force and thusly the shock throughout the weapon.(a round/dummy/snap-cap provides a slight cushion for the slide as it bumps along into the chamber)

zeb
02-05-2009, 12:29 AM
I would agree that dropping the slide will not damage the extractor but it will put excessive force on several other parts. Barrel lugs will battered by the slide and trigger/sear engagement surfaces will suffer to the point that any decent trigger pull will be lost, especially in a 1911.

jlh95811
02-05-2009, 12:40 AM
I would agree that dropping the slide will not damage the extractor but it will put excessive force on several other parts. Barrel lugs will battered by the slide and trigger/sear engagement surfaces will suffer to the point that any decent trigger pull will be lost, especially in a 1911.

Not saying you are wrong:
I've slammed the slide home on my Springfield loaded at least 500 times, probably closer to 1000. Trigger has no work. Breaks crisp and clean at 3.3 pounds after about 4000 rounds.(yeah I like to play with my guns when I'm not shooting them)

NeoWeird
02-05-2009, 1:53 AM
If the soft crass will damage your extractor then something else is wrong. The slide slams home on a loaded chamber EVERY time the gun is fired. Easeing the slide home on the first round won't do anything, even if it COULD do something.

The problem is not the trigger job either.

The problem is that the barrel hood is one of the strongest locking points on the 1911 barrel design. When you let the slide slam home on an empty chamber you have a stress relieved piece of steel being hit forvefully with a heat treated piece of steel. Peening eventually occurs and the result is poor lock up, and eventually headspace issues. The peening can also further causes problems if it peens in towards the chamber, such as feeding and extraction problems as well as the gun locking up after being fired. If it happens enough, in a loose enough gun, you could even have case head support issues which could easily lead to a dangerous, if not deadly, situation.

The brass of the case actually acts as a shock absorber and helps prolong firearm life.

CRQuarto
02-05-2009, 2:30 AM
If the soft crass will damage your extractor then something else is wrong. The slide slams home on a loaded chamber EVERY time the gun is fired. Easeing the slide home on the first round won't do anything, even if it COULD do something.

The problem is not the trigger job either.

The problem is that the barrel hood is one of the strongest locking points on the 1911 barrel design. When you let the slide slam home on an empty chamber you have a stress relieved piece of steel being hit forvefully with a heat treated piece of steel. Peening eventually occurs and the result is poor lock up, and eventually headspace issues. The peening can also further causes problems if it peens in towards the chamber, such as feeding and extraction problems as well as the gun locking up after being fired. If it happens enough, in a loose enough gun, you could even have case head support issues which could easily lead to a dangerous, if not deadly, situation.

The brass of the case actually acts as a shock absorber and helps prolong firearm life.

Ahh, that common sense thing...:D

jlh95811
02-05-2009, 3:42 AM
If the soft crass will damage your extractor then something else is wrong. The slide slams home on a loaded chamber EVERY time the gun is fired. Easeing the slide home on the first round won't do anything, even if it COULD do something.

The problem is not the trigger job either.

The problem is that the barrel hood is one of the strongest locking points on the 1911 barrel design. When you let the slide slam home on an empty chamber you have a stress relieved piece of steel being hit forvefully with a heat treated piece of steel. Peening eventually occurs and the result is poor lock up, and eventually headspace issues. The peening can also further causes problems if it peens in towards the chamber, such as feeding and extraction problems as well as the gun locking up after being fired. If it happens enough, in a loose enough gun, you could even have case head support issues which could easily lead to a dangerous, if not deadly, situation.

The brass of the case actually acts as a shock absorber and helps prolong firearm life.

Ummm...

The rim of the case is accepted by the extractor. The bullet is led in by the slide. Thusly the chamber is NOT loaded until the slide comes fully forward. Due to the fact(stated by you and I) that the case provides relief from the full shock of the slide slamming shut, it is effectively being guided forward rather than slamming forward on a loaded chamber.

What was being discussed, albiet of topic, is a slide slamming foward on an already loaded chamber thusly putting undue stress on the extractor.

Kid Stanislaus
02-05-2009, 5:21 AM
Knowing that uninformed noobs are abusing them makes me not want to buy one that's been sitting in the display case for any length of time.


How do you tell how long its been in the case? A guy would almost have to visit the shop every day and check the serial numbers!:D

Max-the-Silent
02-05-2009, 5:23 AM
Anyone ever have a problem with folks who just don't treat your stuff politely if you happen to say, "Sure, take a look at this XXX gun I have/just bought!"

My example is as follows...
I have this friend who has a longtime douchebag boyfriend. Both are into shooting. I decided to bring them to the range on the weekend.

I proceed to show her BF my 1911s since he has never shot one. I say, "Sure, take a look at it but please don't slam the slide into battery."

What does he do? :cool2:

Locks the slide and slams it forward home! Twice! (I was talking to my friend about 10 feet away)

I promptly walk over and grab it from him and tell him why he did exactly what I asked him not to do. He proceeds to tell me "big deal" and basically f-off. :eek:

Told my friend goodbye and said, "I won't be shooting with your douchebag boyfriend next to me since he can't respect other folks stuff."

She called me a few hours ago to apologize for her BF. Found out that he eventually destroyed another hanger in a different lane and had to fork up money to pay for the damage after I left. :D What an idiot...

/rant

You did the right thing.

Stick to it.

Hopefully the girl will wise up and dump him.

biscuitninja
02-05-2009, 7:24 AM
Be respectful above all. IMHO it won't hurt to firearm to slam to battery. They do soemthing like 5000-10000 batter slams in testing (with and without ammo) in testing.

As a rule of thumb, I ask to do anything before I try. But mainly I look at feel, weight heft, pointability and controls. Sometimes I do ask if I can do a quick breakdown.... But it just depends. Anyways good luck and keep it safe.

Maybe your friend will notice this trend.

-bix

Dr. Peter Venkman
02-05-2009, 7:40 AM
Take his girl :thumbsup:

This. Real men don't let friends date douchebags!

Warhawk014
02-05-2009, 8:00 AM
is she hot. pics or it didnt happen:D

uxo2
02-05-2009, 8:13 AM
why do you shoot with people who are

"" douchebag boyfriend""

hotwls13
02-05-2009, 8:29 AM
Hmmm, interesting thread. I didn't know slamming forward on a loaded chamber was a problem.

For my CCW gun (XD-SC 9mm) it is my routine to load it with a single round by hand, release the slide (slamming it forward), then load the mgazine.

For my XD, is this bad or damaging?

Loading a mag, racking the slide, removing the mag, adding a round to that mag then re-inserting seems very cumbersome. Especially in a CCW situation where you are trying to be discreet while loading.

trinydex
02-05-2009, 9:03 AM
wait why do you have to load your gun in public?

hotwls13
02-05-2009, 9:10 AM
wait why do you have to load your gun in public?

There are places where you cannot take your CCW (Post Office, Courts etc). In that event, I have a lockbox in my vehicle, but to be LEGAL it has to be locked up AND unloaded. I don't just whip it out for all to see, it is covered up during the process.

Anyway, the FASTEST way is the way I described. By loading a mag twice then adding a round to the mag, it just makes more fumbling and more time.

trinydex
02-05-2009, 9:24 AM
ah, i see.

Turbinator
02-05-2009, 10:58 AM
Be respectful above all. IMHO it won't hurt to firearm to slam to battery. They do soemthing like 5000-10000 batter slams in testing (with and without ammo) in testing.

Maybe slamming the slide forward won't hurt the gun (for the record, I don't do it on empty chambers either) - but if the owner requests action XYZ NOT to be done to his / her item ABC, the right thing to do is to comply with the request - or get outta there if the request is totally unreasonable. In this case, it was a reasonable request and I think the OP is right to have complained about the issue, particularly in light of hearing that the target hanger subsequently got shot down by this clown.

Turby

gunboat
02-05-2009, 11:34 AM
Every GI m1911 has been "slammed home" hundreds if not thousands of times -

jlh95811
02-05-2009, 11:39 AM
Hmmm, interesting thread. I didn't know slamming forward on a loaded chamber was a problem.

For my CCW gun (XD-SC 9mm) it is my routine to load it with a single round by hand, release the slide (slamming it forward), then load the mgazine.

For my XD, is this bad or damaging?

Loading a mag, racking the slide, removing the mag, adding a round to that mag then re-inserting seems very cumbersome. Especially in a CCW situation where you are trying to be discreet while loading.

Well being as the XD is a total workhorse I don't see it breaking your gun at all. It will likely have some effect on the life of the original extractor but not enough to notice in an XD. Don't worry too much about it.

Would not recommend doing for a lesser built gun.
Again, it's not likely to break anything, just wears out sooner. Kinda like Jackrabbit starts from stop in your car.

Greg-Dawg
02-05-2009, 11:42 AM
My rule is watch them and when they're done, take it away.

Fate
02-05-2009, 12:33 PM
Pistol whip the douchebag. That'll learn him. :thumbsup:

OutlawDon
02-05-2009, 12:36 PM
I do not associate or hang out with/around idiots.

Black Majik
02-05-2009, 12:42 PM
Next time, make him drive. When he drops you off at home slam his car door.

Key is to do it when he drops you off at home, otherwise you're hitchhiking home.

Zesty
02-05-2009, 4:15 PM
The way I understand things:

1. "Slamming" slide on empty chamber is not the best idea.

2. Gently "riding the slide" forward to chamber a round is not the best idea.

3. Load rounds from the mag only, not by hand.

caldude
02-05-2009, 4:38 PM
The OP had it right - the guys a DB. Anybody who wouldn't at least say "I'm sorry" after being caught doing something they were told not to is pond scum IMO. Guy's a low class loser.

domokun
02-05-2009, 5:10 PM
If it's not my piece, then I definitely respect the requests of the owner and also ask for permission to do things that are out of the standard operation procedure for operating said firearm before doing it.

Turbinator
02-05-2009, 5:16 PM
If it's not my piece, then I definitely respect the requests of the owner

Bingo. Totally agree. If the owner asks, you comply. Simple. If you can't comply, don't handle his / her stuff. :)

Turby

Bird of Fire
02-05-2009, 5:27 PM
I can't get pics of the girl to load in firefox or opera. :( I keep pressing F5....nada.

devildog999
02-05-2009, 6:52 PM
I would have done the same thing you did. People need to show respect for others possessions

RedDawn
02-05-2009, 7:02 PM
Person/private property should always be respected.

recshooter
02-05-2009, 8:31 PM
If he was as much of an idiot as you say OP, (and it sounds like he was) are you sure that he knew what "slamming into battery" was?

In the end, it doesn't matter much, as he proceeded to be rude while borrowing your stuff (and subsequently went on to shoot a target hanger).

For the sake of your health and sanity, stay away from that DB.

atavuss
02-06-2009, 3:44 PM
I would like to know how you would have handled this:
while I was doing the paperwork on a very nice and rare revolver one of the gun store employees stood the revolver on its barrel and rested the butt of the gun on his forehead. I was so taken by surprise I could not do anything but stare at the employee. I did not say anything although I wanted to yell at him and ask him WTF he thought he was doing.

Salty
02-06-2009, 5:39 PM
I've had similar incidents happen before. Only once was it firearms related. The guy dumped out ammo all over the dirty bench than began to load gritty ammo into my gun, refused to use the safety, talked trash about my gun and how "everyone has one" and "it's just ok" (Beretta 92) even though he doesn't own a single gun himself. Basically just trying to be a show off / cool guy or something. I will avoid shooting with him again. More commonly though it has something to do with my car or house. I actually had a grown adult sneak food into my car and try to get away with eating it in the back seat, twice. This was after I told everyone no eating in my car. I made very it clear that someone else will be driving her from now on, in fact I sorta exploded after the second time. Another time I had someone sit cross legged in my car with the sole of their shoe resting on my leather door card, then later they left a freaking banana on the leather seat when it was hot outside. Again, that person will find a ride with someone else from now on.

Edit: Oh, one more firearms related one. My wife's parents were over and she brought them into our bedroom to show off the nightstand guns. My wife opens her drawer and pulls out her gun and before she can unload it her mom immediately grab the gun from her hand and starts pointing it around it around the room and making "patchewww patchewww patcheww" noises and laughing. We both yell our own variants of "STOP! IT'S LOADED!" then she replied "Why do you have a loaded gun in your house?!". Obviously I will avoid my mother in law and loaded guns from now on.


Anyway, my solution is to basically avoid those types of people. Some people think that they are the exception to all the rules and have no sense of manners.

atavuss
02-06-2009, 5:45 PM
More commonly though it has something to do with my car or house.

I work with a guy that is like that..........always abrasive about me or things I own. I wonder if these types of people have to belittle others to build themselves up? I used to go fishing with him but I stopped all contact with him and have not even talked to him in months.

pullnshoot25
02-06-2009, 5:57 PM
Take his girl :thumbsup:

+1, is she cute?

trinydex
02-06-2009, 6:25 PM
I've had similar incidents happen before. Only once was it firearms related. The guy dumped out ammo all over the dirty bench than began to load gritty ammo into my gun, refused to use the safety, talked trash about my gun and how "everyone has one" and "it's just ok" (Beretta 92) even though he doesn't own a single gun himself. Basically just trying to be a show off / cool guy or something. I will avoid shooting with him again. More commonly though it has something to do with my car or house. I actually had a grown adult sneak food into my car and try to get away with eating it in the back seat, twice. This was after I told everyone no eating in my car. I made very it clear that someone else will be driving her from now on, in fact I sorta exploded after the second time. Another time I had someone sit cross legged in my car with the sole of their shoe resting on my leather door card, then later they left a freaking banana on the leather seat when it was hot outside. Again, that person will find a ride with someone else from now on.

Edit: Oh, one more firearms related one. My wife's parents were over and she brought them into our bedroom to show off the nightstand guns. My wife opens her drawer and pulls out her gun and before she can unload it her mom immediately grab the gun from her hand and starts pointing it around it around the room and making "patchewww patchewww patcheww" noises and laughing. We both yell our own variants of "STOP! IT'S LOADED!" then she replied "Why do you have a loaded gun in your house?!". Obviously I will avoid my mother in law and loaded guns from now on.


Anyway, my solution is to basically avoid those types of people. Some people think that they are the exception to all the rules and have no sense of manners.

dang... that sucks