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JG87
02-04-2009, 8:31 PM
I'm a student enrolled in a Graphic Design program in Seattle, WA and currently working in a group to create an advertisement for a certain product. The class this project is for is called New Media, a class that integrates the Photography, Publishing Arts and Graphic Design Programs so the students can work together as they will in the industry.

http://seattlecentral.edu/learn/graphicdesign/

The students involved in this project are all in their second quarter of their respective programs. Our group has two graphic designers, one photographer and two publishing arts students.


Our group has decided to market guns to young business professionals. Our manufacturer name is Pistolet. We'd like to get some feedback from gun owners to help us have a better sense of the industry we're marketing in. Any and all feedback is very much appreciated! Feel free to answer as many or as few of our questions as you feel comfortable with, we're grateful for any help you can give us.

Why do you own a gun?
How many do you own?
When did you start getting interested in guns and why?
Are guns something that is a part of your regular life or lifestyle, or something on the side?
What about guns appeals to you?
How much money a year on average do you spend on guns?
Do you buy guns from a specific manufacturer? If so, why? If not, why not?

(I apologize for the hokey questions, they're mainly written as general product questions. Any suggestions you might have as far as better questions is appreciated.)

Thank you again for any and all feedback you provide, we appreciate your help!

Gray Peterson
02-04-2009, 8:37 PM
FYI folks,

I'm the one that recommended Calguns for the first forum posting. He posted at a different less well known gun forum and he was pretty well treated with paranoia and suspicion. I know him personally, and he lives here locally, so let's give him a good Calguns welcome! You do not have to use real names, or if there's any particular questions that you don't want to answer, don't.

SimpleCountryActuary
02-04-2009, 9:04 PM
Pistolet. PistoLET? Here's some advice from someone who uses words for what the IRS calls a taxable income: find a name that sounds manly, unless you are marketing to the Ladies, such as the one who shoots the pink AR.

There are three reasons I am interested in rifles and pistols:

1. A man is supposed to be able to protect his family and he can't do that by pointing his cell phone at a thug;

2. I am or was :( good at marksmanship;

3. If you do not exercise your rights (free speech, assembly, RKBA) somehow they atrophy and the tyrants (pronounced burr-oh-krat) control your life. Read Orwell. He was an optimist.

Good luck on your research. And as far as how many guns I own ... more than one.

JG87
02-04-2009, 9:11 PM
I personally am not too thrilled on the name, but my group members wanted something French. The idea we were going for was sexy, classic, timeless. Think jewelry. We want to market to both genders, but the ideas we've come up with thus far seem more slanted towards a female clientele. Either way, there will be no pink guns. We wanted something a little closer to the James Bond idea of classy and sexy.

Axewound
02-04-2009, 9:19 PM
a number of reason of why i like certain guns can range from sexy/stylish to reliable, durable and versatility. more so the latter. im no gun snob either so any brand, i deem worthy can have a place to stay in my safe reguardless of brand.
sexy nice guns usually have a high price tag (usually), they have to offer something real nice and be proven for me to pony up and buy. why couldnt i buy a cheaper brand that does basically the same thing but not as pretty. just something to think about

rayra
02-04-2009, 9:21 PM
meh.
The general demographics question you're asking will make most paranoiac gun owners start twitching.

What is obviously missing from your list of student categories is anyone from the Business or Marketing schools.

What you need is a proper marketing approach. You've already stated your target customer -
"Our group has decided to market guns to young business professionals"
- so general demographic data really isn't helpful and may even be counterproductive. A 'Gun just like you hunted with grandpa with' with flannel gear, waterdogs and wood furniture a la any Cabela's catalog wouldn't work.

What you want is to place your arms into advertising milieus that appeal to 'young business professionals'. The clean elegance of an Absolut campaign, or the stark/glossy campaigns of HK or S&W's LadySmith line in the 90s. Beautifully lit / shot firearms elements, ensconsed in yuppie staging. Whatever the hottest clothing, cars, purses, furniture environments appeal to your target audience, place the guns in them so that they become part of the same fabric, and thus desireable to your target audience.

Pictures lit and composed like those if Ichiro Nagata, whose work fills American Handgunner magazine on a regular basis.
http://www.americanhandgunner.com/ECandy.html

Pictures that tell 'young business professionals' that 'you've earned it', 'you're safety is worth the best', 'protect your investment', 'save your asset', 'nothing but the finest', 'you work hard, so play hard', 'work with the best, play with the best'.

Look at the marketing of Cadillac. Look at the marketing of the high-end trap gun manufacturers. Look at Brandy ads.


/that'll be $50,000, or the sum total of your team's quarterly tuition fees, whichever is more.

rayra
02-04-2009, 9:23 PM
I personally am not too thrilled on the name, but my group members wanted something French. The idea we were going for was sexy, classic, timeless. Think jewelry. We want to market to both genders, but the ideas we've come up with thus far seem more slanted towards a female clientele. Either way, there will be no pink guns. We wanted something a little closer to the James Bond idea of classy and sexy.

ah then you're definitely seeking to recreate the S&W Ladysmith line of advertising, or Walther's early Bond pistols. Your idea's already been well done.

/tack another grand on my bill

old-trapper
02-04-2009, 9:27 PM
If you are marketing to young professioinals don't get caught up in your questions..People in any market buy the dream and the sizzle not the steak. Sell them the points of "pistolet" they want to hear. "saftey features for their up and comming family" "Practicality in use" "prestige"and "value" to name a common few. that's my 2cent p.s. to answer a few of your questions I teethed in a cartrige, own enough to piss off my wife, I spend as much as I can on them and buy the best quality I can afford...

JG87
02-04-2009, 9:36 PM
We actually already have set down many of the ideas you've stated, but I'm impressed to see someone here pointing these things out! I didn't include most of our notes on the project for the sake of simplicity, and because I only needed some research on how current gun owners feel about their investments (I don't know much about guns, myself.) Thank you for your suggestions on which campaigns to look at, I'll definitely check them out. We are looking to capture that sexy, timeless and very classy look. We've already developed a few prospective campaigns, marketing our guns as something that our audience includes in their daily life. A luxury, the safety that they can afford. If you're interested, I'd be happy to discuss our visual concepts with you.

CavTrooper
02-04-2009, 9:40 PM
The name sucks out loud.

I own guns for hunting, target shooting and self defense.

Been shooting since I was a small boy, really got into firearms after high school.

Firearms are an everyday thing. Wallet, sunglasses, watch, keys, pistol (except where prohibited by law)

The "appeal" is independence, not having to rely on anyone else for my own preservation.

I spend more than I should, but as not as much as Id like.

As far as manufacturers, I dont have a specific favorite, just favorite types of firearms.

Dr Rockso
02-04-2009, 9:43 PM
I personally am not too thrilled on the name, but my group members wanted something French.

Man, your group members don't know their target audience at all.
The only reason to buy a French gun is that it's never been fired and only dropped once.

SwissFluCase
02-04-2009, 9:49 PM
OK. I'll play.

I am the CEO of a small corporation, and I am definitely part of the white collar workforce.

I own a gun(s) primarily as a defensive tool. I train in martial arts, and I am integrating the art of the rifle and pistol into this activity.

I'm not sure how many I own. Not as many as most.

I got interested in guns because I believe it is our civic duty to protect ourselves, our families, and our communities against crime and sometimes general disorder.

Guns appeal to me only insomuch as they are the weapons of our age. If our weapons were silly looking directed energy devices, and the gun was obsolete, I wouldn't bother with guns.

I'm not sure how much money I spend on guns per year. As I learn the art of the gun, I sell off guns I don't like to fund the purchase of more appropriate weapons. I have no idea how much I spend on ammo. Not as much as I should because I don't shoot enough.

I own several guns made by SIG and Smith & Wesson as well as Glock. I feel that the particular products I own from these manufacturers represent the best of the market. They have been proven from competition to all out war.

Now about your project. You cannot just market a gun. A gun is a matter of trust between the manufacturer and the customer. When one buys a gun for defense they are literally putting their lives in your hands. Not so much for formal target shooting or hunting, but I participate in neither of those activities. You are getting my worldview here.

People tend to by defensive arms because the police and military use those models. "If it is good enough for the Marines-SEALs-Secret Service-FBI-Army-etc. it is good enough for me" is the mindset I see in the market. The marketing is all about the product. You cannot market a gun that doesn't work in the field. A gun that proves itself in battle will gain wide acceptance.

A case in point is the Glock. When the Glock first hit the market in the 1980's, a lot of users were sceptical. A few users bought them and had positive experiences. The Austrian army adopted the Glock, and so did many police departments. After some years, the Glock had earned its place in the world of defensive arms. Today, some people like Glocks, some don't. Not many will argue that they are not a good defensive arm.

Fast forward to today. FN introduced a pistol called the FiveSeven. It uses a new and relatively unproven cartridge. A few police agencies have adopted it, but most have not. The gun is still not proven. There has been some data regarding actual street shootings, but not enough to satisfy someone who wants a proven weapon system, not one that is merely calculated on paper.

A defensive gun needs to be as reliable as a modern airliner engine. It needs to be easy enough for a mildly retarded user to operate. Most people involved in gunfights become mildly retarded due to fear or adrenalin. It needs to be well supported. The best pistol in the world means nothing if the manufacturer won't stand behind it. It needs to be reasonably priced. The SIG P210 and the H&K P7 are two of the best combat pistols in the world, but are priced out of the range of most users. The Glock is one of the cheapest.

I know this is a class project, but my advice from executive to would-be executive, is get out and start shooting. Make your team use the products in the market; I certainly would. Talk to the people at the range. Talk to the salesmen, and the shooters, and the police, and the other users. Do your competitive research. Get the manufacturer's brochures and read their hype. Companies get into the gun business because they have a passion for the industry. I'm sure there are easier ways to make money in this world.

Regards,


SwissFluCase

JG87
02-04-2009, 9:50 PM
Man, your group members don't know their target audience at all.
The only reason to buy a French gun is that it's never been fired and only dropped once.

They wanted a French name, not a French company.

SwissFluCase
02-04-2009, 9:57 PM
They wanted a French name, not a French company.

That's fine and all, but a weapon should have a name that denotes a decent martial history. France isn't it. Most gunshop owners don't like the French either. You are marketing to them too...

Go look up and handle the old PPKs, the SIG p210, the H&K P7 series, the higher end M1911's, the Colt Pythons and such. These are the top end of the market. These guns exude quality and class.

Regards,


SwissFluCase

JG87
02-04-2009, 9:58 PM
Thank you very much for your input! This is a fabricated company, and so we have no reputation, as it were. I suppose you could call it a recent start-up, trying to gain awareness in the market. We're marketing our product as a defensive gun for metropolitan areas. And we actually do plan on going out on a shooting range. We chose a bit of a complex product to attempt to market. This is only a 3-week project, no less, haha! The point of the project was to gather data, other campaigns, market research and create a 'mood board' of which we'll use to then decide how we want to create the visuals for our company. We could take this project a lot further if we were given an entire quarter to do it, but it's a module as part of a larger class. I thank you greatly for all your input though, this is a lot of great information for us!

Dr Rockso
02-04-2009, 10:11 PM
They wanted a French name, not a French company.

Yeah, I get it, but you'd be hard pressed to sell some of the folks around here a jar of French's mustard ;).

Now that I've got the obligatory gun-forum frog-bashing out of the way, I'll give you constructive input:

Why do you own a gun?
Self-defense, recreation, collection.

How many do you own?
About five.

When did you start getting interested in guns and why?
Hunting with my uncle and cousins, talking about guns with friends and family.

Are guns something that is a part of your regular life or lifestyle, or something on the side?
Somewhere in the middle.

What about guns appeals to you?
Depends on the gun. An antique military rifle appeals to me in a different way than a utilitarian handgun. Handguns appeal to me more as a 'tool' than a piece of art or history. That doesn't mean I won't spend good money on a quality tool.

How much money a year on average do you spend on guns?
Anywhere from a several hundred to a couple thousand.

Do you buy guns from a specific manufacturer? If so, why? If not, why not?
There are certain manufacturers I would be pre-disposed to buy from and some that will never see a dime from me. Most of that comes down to reputation for building a quality product. I would be hesitant to buy a gun from a newly-created company. Things that would help ease my mind would be third-party (especially military or law enforcement) testing of their product, an extraordinary value, or if they offered a desirable product not available from more established manufacturers.

joemama
02-04-2009, 10:32 PM
Why do you own a gun?
Self/home defense purposes, hunting, target shooting, and its my favorite hobby.

How many do you own?
8

When did you start getting interested in guns and why? ever since I can remember, I was raised with guns. Started hunting and target shooting when I was 6.

Are guns something that is a part of your regular life or lifestyle, or something on the side? I would say half and half. I dont carry a gun at work which is where I am most of the time. On the other side of that I do go shooting as much as time and money permits.

What about guns appeals to you?
Well the biggest thing to me is the defensive factor of owning guns. You couldnt put a dollar figure on the peace of mind you have with a gun in the household. Plus as I mentioned above, it is my favorite hobby.

How much money a year on average do you spend on guns?
Before last year $400-$1000, but then I found out I could buy black rifles in california and well that went to $400-$4000.

Do you buy guns from a specific manufacturer? If so, why? If not, why not? I tend to do as much research as I can so I can get the most bang for my buck. If a manufacturer has a lot of bad reviews I probably wont buy their product. Because of how much guns are I prefer to get a superior product instead of junk. I also look for really good deals, I couldnt pass up the $74 mosin at big 5 :D

Good luck with the project.

JG87
02-04-2009, 10:36 PM
Thank you! If anyone would like to see the finished project, I can host it online.

Dr Rockso
02-04-2009, 10:39 PM
This might be helpful to get you started. Here are some promotional photos for manufacturers that are marketed as being top of the line defensive handguns.

Khar Arms:
http://kahr.com/imgs/img_ind_sexy420.jpg

Walther:
http://www.allensgunshop.com/images/PPS.jpg

Ruger:
http://carlos.drzak.org/gallery/ruger/ruger-lcp-25-tm.jpg

HK:
HINT: Don't put the bullets in the magazine backwards.
http://www.nysrpa.org/images/HK-ad.jpg

Kimber:
http://www.tactical-life.com/online/wp-content/uploads/2008/06/kimber.gif

Sig-Sauer:
http://sigsauer.com/upFiles/catalog/product/P220-CARRY-SAS-BTY.JPG

I hope that wasn't too much unsolicited help. You might also want to look at some coverage of the SHOT show that you can find on youtube (SHOT is the big firearms industry trade show). From a marketing standpoint, you can not beat HK. They make a decent firearm, but the hype surrounding them is simply unreal.

JG87
02-04-2009, 10:46 PM
Not unsolicited at all, I appreciate your help very much.

atasty39
02-04-2009, 10:58 PM
I want to contribute having had to do a similar project back in the day!

Why do you own a gun? Self-defense, entertainment, skill-building

When did you start getting interested in guns and why? Had my own rifle growing up, just in the last 2 years got back into gun ownership

Are guns something that is a part of your regular life or lifestyle, or something on the side? Something on the side, like golf.

What about guns appeals to you? The ability to protect me and mine if necessary. The challenge of making a little ball of metal go exactly where I want it to go, being able to control the production of ammo to suit my use and firearm, shooting with my friends

How much money a year on average do you spend on guns? Ummm....maybe $1000, but this will taper off drastically after I purchase the next revolver.

Do you buy guns from a specific manufacturer? If so, why? If not, why not?
I do not buy from a specific manufacturer, I purchase the tool that will allow me to accomplish the purpose that I have chosen. I choose the best tool for the job I have in mind and if it means going to another manufacturer I will without hesitation.

Good luck, and I hope you are having fun!

renardsubtil
02-04-2009, 11:07 PM
Man, college was so long ago...I had to do a similar project for a graphic design course back in the day....


Why do you own a gun?
- I own my guns because it's my right. I'm also in it for the history of each individual gun I buy.

How many do you own?
- Many. Mostly "antiques". One or two modern-ish type pistols and rifles.

When did you start getting interested in guns and why?
- A few years ago my GF at the time bought me a membership to the local gun range after I showed interest in buying a 1911 style pistol and of course buying one gun led to buying another and another. The 1911 I liked because it was an old design which has lasted since well...1911...the design was timeless, functional, and still effective in a "modern" world for what I needed it to do.

Are guns something that is a part of your regular life or lifestyle, or something on the side?
- Purely hobby.

What about guns appeals to you?
- Function. Historical significance. Form. In that order.

How much money a year on average do you spend on guns?
- $1-2K

Do you buy guns from a specific manufacturer? If so, why? If not, why not?
- I bought a few early european type rifles because they're extremely well made and not to mention still quite accurate, these were mostly 30s and 40s era rifles with no manufacturer label since they were government models. I've also bought a few 40s era American rifles (Remington and HRA) but the manufacturer doesn't totally make a big difference to me other than to add to the collectibility of the firearm. The only two modern type firearms I own (both from different manufacturers) were purchased because they were unique and they received high marks on the form and function.

SwissFluCase
02-04-2009, 11:29 PM
Thank you! If anyone would like to see the finished project, I can host it online.

Yes. Please do. You picked a challenging project, but it looks like you are doing your due dilligence. Good luck.

Regards,


SwissFluCase

SwissFluCase
02-04-2009, 11:38 PM
This might be helpful to get you started. Here are some promotional photos for manufacturers that are marketed as being top of the line defensive handguns.

Gun pr0n, eh? Ok. I'll play...

Simply the finest concealed carry piece extant:

http://www.gunfaqs.org/P7FAQ/Magazine_Articles/P7%20Ad%20July%201988.jpg

Regards,


SwissFluCase

aklon
02-05-2009, 12:04 AM
I personally am not too thrilled on the name, but my group members wanted something French.

Why not "Fusil Neuvieme"? It means "nine gun", not too good in English but a more "gun" sounding name, even in French. "Pistolet" is technically correct, but it sounds like, well, a piece of jewellery - like the group wants.

JG87
02-05-2009, 12:12 AM
Thank you for the suggestion! I'll see what my group thinks.

SwissFluCase
02-05-2009, 12:12 AM
Why not "Fusil Neuvieme"? It means "nine gun", not too good in English but a more "gun" sounding name, even in French. "Pistolet" is technically correct, but it sounds like, well, a piece of jewellery - like the group wants.

You know, Fabrique Nationale de Herstal (http://www.fnherstal.com/) has a nice ring to it. They are Belgian, and have been around since forever. Take a look at their site. You might get some French language ideas.

Wasn't there also an armory in St. Etienne? They had fairly good rep.

Regards,


SwissFluCase

Gunaria
02-05-2009, 12:23 AM
Hi JG87 here's a couple of question to you and your parters.

Do you or anybody else in your design group own a firearm or have shot firearms in the past?

Do any of you hunt or enjoy the outdoors?

Here's a suggestion, why don't you and your design team go to a local gun range where they rent firearms so that you can shoot and get the feel of what you are trying to do.

To me it sounds like you are trying to design and sell cars without knowing how to even drive one.

I not trying to tell you to live the gun culture but you must experience it to understand it. Also maybe you and your team members should go and check out the local gun shows.

Hope this helps give you some ideas.

JG87
02-05-2009, 12:37 AM
We actually plan on going out to a firing range, it was one of the first things that came up while we were planning things out. It's a three-week project only, so there's not much time to immerse ourselves in the culture, but we're doing what we can. One of the group members is also a former marine, so at least one of us has gun knowledge.

rabagley
02-05-2009, 12:48 AM
Our group has decided to market guns to young business professionals. Our manufacturer name is Pistolet. We'd like to get some feedback from gun owners to help us have a better sense of the industry we're marketing in. Any and all feedback is very much appreciated! Feel free to answer as many or as few of our questions as you feel comfortable with, we're grateful for any help you can give us.

Well, I'll wing it and just throw out some quick answers (it's getting late). I hope this helps.

Why do you own a gun?
I believe that owning a gun is a critical part of taking responsibility for my safety and the safety of my family.
How many do you own?
Five handguns, one shotgun, and a large variety of rifles from very modern to civil war era.
When did you start getting interested in guns and why?
Through hunting with my father and grandfather. My first time hunting, at the age of 17, I harvested a deer, but I felt both elated and guilty during the experience. It took a slightly unauthorized tour (a friend of a friend let me in and showed me around) of a modern feedlot to make me understand that hunting was a much more responsible way to feed myself. From that point, I started to deliberately think about firearms as tools that could be a net positive and learned from there.
Are guns something that is a part of your regular life or lifestyle, or something on the side?
Awareness of my personal context, a willingness to take responsibility for my safety, etc. are a part of my identity. My history with guns, my decision to take a CCW permit class when I lived in Texas, quite a bit of reading and discussing led me to the point where I'm more comfortable when I know I'm near a gun than when I don't know where one is.
What about guns appeals to you?
The fact that my wife can use a gun to defend herself against a much larger attacker, Kellerman's bogus study nonwithstanding.
How much money a year on average do you spend on guns?
Since I've had an income, it appears the average is only about $1000/year. But I've been getting back into shooting recently, so the consumable costs have been going back up. In 2008, I probably spent close to $5000 on guns, equipment, ammo, range time, etc.
Do you buy guns from a specific manufacturer? If so, why? If not, why not?
For handguns, I'm partial to Glocks. I like the weight, the grip angle, the feel of my favorite trigger kit, the philosophy behind the gun, etc. Otherwise, I buy the best set of trade-offs for my needs. Recently, this meant a Marlin 45-70 lever action, and a few AR-15's banged together from parts made by a dozen or more manufacturers.

Good luck, I hope this helps!

Ross

Turbinator
02-05-2009, 12:08 PM
HK:
HINT: Don't put the bullets in the magazine backwards.


Hint - don't call them "bullets". :D

Turby

Dr Rockso
02-05-2009, 12:16 PM
Hint - don't call them "bullets". :D

Turby

Both the cartridges and the bullets are facing the wrong way. So there :43:.

sugi942
02-05-2009, 12:39 PM
I'll play:

Why do you own a gun?

Home defense, recreation (in that order)

How many do you own?

Uhhh... 4 revolvers, 7 pistols, 3 shotguns and 3 rifles.

When did you start getting interested in guns and why?

My family grew up on a farm so firearms have always been around.

Are guns something that is a part of your regular life or lifestyle, or something on the side?

Since they are mostly for defense and partly for recreation, I'd say part of regular life.

What about guns appeals to you?

The ability to protect my family and property (hopefully without firing a shot)

How much money a year on average do you spend on guns?

Maybe a couple hundred dollars.

Do you buy guns from a specific manufacturer? If so, why? If not, why not?

No. For me form follows function. Although I seem to buy a lot of Springfield Armory. :)

Greg-Dawg
02-05-2009, 12:40 PM
Why do you own a gun? Why not own one?
How many do you own? None of your business.
When did you start getting interested in guns and why? 1983, when I first got a Marksman BB/pellet air pistol.
Are guns something that is a part of your regular life or lifestyle, or something on the side? Yes.
What about guns appeals to you? Reliable guns.
How much money a year on average do you spend on guns? $400.
Do you buy guns from a specific manufacturer? If so, why? If not, why not? Yes, because of reliabilty, popularity and effectiveness to stop a threat.

Answers in BOLD.

M. D. Van Norman
02-05-2009, 1:43 PM
I think that rayra already covered this very well. If the goal is to sell self-defense handguns—Washington being a shall-issue state—to “young business professionals,” then the experiences and preferences of the typical firearms enthusiast will not be particularly relevant to such a marketing strategy.

You might want to look into MRI+ (http://www.mriplus.com), if available to you, for some demographic information.

AlexBreya
02-05-2009, 2:31 PM
Why do you own a gun?
How many do you own?
When did you start getting interested in guns and why?
Are guns something that is a part of your regular life or lifestyle, or something on the side?
What about guns appeals to you?
How much money a year on average do you spend on guns?
Do you buy guns from a specific manufacturer? If so, why? If not, why not?


Thank you again for any and all feedback you provide, we appreciate your help!

1. Fun to shoot
2. 9
3. when i was 10 because i got an airsoft gun
4. regular life
5. accuracy, powder, recoil, looks, sound, shiny brass
6. Only had them for 1 year, so far, about $12,000 or so (including ammo/accesories)
7. buy local only so i don't have to deal with shipping, and you can see the gun in person first.

hope this helps

Midian
02-05-2009, 2:38 PM
That name blows blue whale boner.

Midian
02-05-2009, 2:42 PM
Ask yourself, "what would a straight man buy?" ...then look at the names of fighter jets, ancient weapons, epic battles, predatory animals, sources of natural power, and draw your name from there. Pistolet is an enormous turn off.

You're not selling wrinkle cream, your selling weaponry.

JBBenson
02-05-2009, 3:31 PM
Remember everything old is new again. Classic Americana is always in style, now more than ever:

http://www.newsweek.com/id/182573

JG87
02-05-2009, 5:02 PM
Ask yourself, "what would a straight man buy?" ...then look at the names of fighter jets, ancient weapons, epic battles, predatory animals, sources of natural power, and draw your name from there. Pistolet is an enormous turn off.

You're not selling wrinkle cream, your selling weaponry.

I'm actually gay, and know one or two gay gun owners. Sexuality doesn't play a role in my decision making or marketing choices in this project. From what I've seen so far, sexuality doesn't affect gun enthusiasts so much as a desire for safety and protection. But I agree that the name doesn't work as well for our product as the group thought, I'm going to bring it up with them tomorrow.

rayra
02-05-2009, 8:11 PM
I suggest the name 'Bronson Arms' for a line of defensive pistols. :D

Also on the yuppie-business-defense, you should check the lines of Dayplanner lookalike gun cases, CCW Purses, maybe some photos of briefcase interiors, office clutter, a Blackberry, copy of the WSJ and such.

And also google up Paxton Quigley, you should find some image ideas in her marketing work.

/damn I better copyright that Bronson Arms idea for real. My first three pistol product models could be DeathWish I, DeathWish II, DeathWish III.

7x57
02-05-2009, 9:23 PM
Sexuality doesn't play a role in my decision making or marketing choices in this project.

You're entirely missing the point. Your decision making isn't relevant: your customer's decision making is. The majority are straight. Quite a few want a gun because of (quite possibly justified) fear, rather than being "into" guns (indeed, your group does not know enough to market to those "into" guns, so in that sense your target market is well chosen). An effeminate sounding name is an enormous turn-off. Turn-off means no sale.

Your mentioned "jewelry," which is a huge tip-off that your group is mucking up the social cues. Guns are not, say, Rolexes. Rolexes do not protect you. Try this: would your name sell off-road vehicles? Would you go to a football-themed sports bar named anything like Pistolet? Would you hire a security guard whose nickname is "Pistolet?" Your guns are going to *be* someone's security guard. It might possibly be a status symbol, but only after it qualifies as sounding like *serious* protection.

I'm not sure I'm going to play the question game, as I'm not crazy about answering such questions, but I guess I will make more name suggestions in another post. It's not that the name matters so much as that it shows some misunderstanding of who you are marketing to and what they will respond to.

OTOH, suppose the name is not changeable. If you're a marketer you may have to design a campaign in real life for a poorly named product, and as a professional you must be able to overcome that handicap. So in that sense, it's a fair exercise to stick with the name. But to intelligently overcome it you do need to know why it was a bad choice.

7x57

JG87
02-05-2009, 9:35 PM
In the point that guns are not Rolexes, I disagree. Considering who our fabricated audience is, we very intentionally chose to market our guns as something similar. Yes, we are marketing them for self-defense, but we're also marketing our product to people who will pay the extra money for a status symbol. That's what we're going for, so in this case yes, the gun is a Rolex, comparatively. Try this: does our target audience regularly frequent football-themed bars, does our target audience buy off-road vehicles? No. We're going after the metropolitan 20-something business professional. People who are more likely to take a taxi to work than a 4-wheeler. People who probably frequent more upscale, high-class bars after work or for business meetings. People who we can say "Hey, the city's a dangerous place. You need to have some form of protection because you never know what might happen when you're walking home to your apartment in midtown after work." We're not going for the enthusiast hunter angle here. We're going for high-class, upscale, metropolitan. Hence the jewelry idea. James Bond, however you want to describe it. Something that conveys class and elegance. I realize that this is not a marketing angle that would be chosen for the mainstream gun market, but we're trying to capture a very specific audience here that's not inside the normal gun industry.

CapS
02-05-2009, 9:47 PM
A couple ideas in no particular order:
Be aware that the gun will be sold only in gun stores, by gun people, and reviewed in gun magazines by gun people.
These will be your primary audience, before you even get to the general public. Pay attention (as others have intimated) to what's going on in the gun market, not what's going on in the fashion pages.
After that, you'll be able to build an effective campaign that targets non gunowners.

If you've already thought this through, great. If not, give it some thought.

Good luck!

/Cap

7x57
02-05-2009, 10:58 PM
I personally am not too thrilled on the name, but my group members wanted something French.


Did they want something French enough to be willing to go broke for it? You have to sell the intangible with your name. Now, first, the intangibles for guns are simply not the ones you get with "Euro-sophisticate" names. Second, of all the countries to choose, France? France? *Really?* Italy, *maybe*, there is Beretta (and yes, Italy's actual recent military record sucks, but we're working with what the cultural stereotypes give us). Fair or not, if you say guns and France in the same sentence you drag in the baggage of France's modern military image (historically, it was sometimes very different--but you're not marketing to long-dead people). You know the jokes:

Q: Why are the boulevards in France lined with trees?
A: So the German army can march in the shade.

"...you know frankly, going to war without France is like going deer hunting without an accordion. You just leave a lot of useless noisy baggage behind." (Famously said by an American deputy undersecretary of defense.)

ETA: French jokes aren't really my thing, but I feel compelled to point out that there is more research material here (http://www.albinoblacksheep.com/text/france.html). :D

You also bring in France's, ah, less than stellar engineering image. You want European and guns, go with German. Germany has the right upscale image for guns. English isn't bad, but more for shotguns and all that sporting stuff, or heavy-caliber dangerous game rifles. German: scarily efficient, precisely engineered, well-dressed but deadly.

But: suppose you have to go with French; perhaps that is simply part of the marketing challenge. You might see if you can work with the one French military image that is as untarnished as the day Roland blew his horn for the last time: the Foreign Legion. People may laugh at the French in general, but I don't think anyone ever laughed at the French Foreign Legion.

Hmm, I can almost see a picture of an unshaven, dirty, scary-looking Legionnaire holding his assault rifle in one hand, bayonet fixed, as he looks hard-eyed at the horizon. Prominent on his hip is an incongruously spotless, gleaming pistol--a Pistolet, naturally. OK, that's probably over the top. :-)

BTW: an awful lot of legionnaires are in fact German. :-)


The idea we were going for was sexy, classic, timeless. Think jewelry.


Please, let's don't. I don't think you can market guns as jewelry. Totally different social cues.


We want to market to both genders, but the ideas we've come up with thus far seem more slanted towards a female clientele.


Hmm, Victoria's *real* secret is that she has more than silk under there. :-)

I can't say if the name will work for young professional women. In fact it might, but you need to ask some young professional women. Most Calgunners are not young professional women, though they very well may want to *date* young professional women. :-)


Either way, there will be no pink guns.


Thank the heavens! Try to avoid ivory pimp-guns too, please. ;) The pearl-handled revolver is for your client's ninety-year-old grandfather, not your client.


We wanted something a little closer to the James Bond idea of classy and sexy.

Bond isn't bad, actually. Good civilized/deadly vibes. But...note that Bond carries a *German* Walther. ;)

Enough about the name. I don't care if you change it--but you ought to understand why the vibes are bad, so you can design around them.

I'm no marketer, but let me try to play your game for a while. It sounds fun. I frankly suspect there is no business case for a start-up firearms manufacturer aimed at young professionals, but that won't stop me from seeing how much amusement I can get from it.

Let's not think of jewelry; people wear jewelry to show off their wealth, and for decoration. Jewelry is intended to be seen. Professionals who choose to go armed are pretty clearly going to carry concealed; there is nothing to show off. Their guns are *not* intended to be seen. So I doubt *public* vanity is the way to sell guns.

He *is* going to carry that gun for safety, though. He wants to believe the gun is absolutely dead reliable. He wants to believe it is as well engineered as a BMW or Mercedes. Even though he probably can't shoot better than combat accuracy (and doesn't need to), I suspect he wants to believe that the gun is supremely accurate ("your advertising copy should definitely tout "match-grade" barrels), because *his kind of gun would just be that accurate.* And also to appeal to his private vanity: he probably knows he isn't as good a shot as some of the unwashed hoi-polloi he's seen the few times he was at a public range (he has been making money instead of practicing), and privately that stings a bit. So he probably wants to believe that *his* gun is so well engineered that it will make him a better shot.

Above all, he wants the gun to make him feel safer. Remember Volvo's carefully engineered "boring but incredibly protective" image? That's not bad. The German auto makers claim something similar.

Hmm. *Where* are we going to advertise? I'm going to think of a glossy magazine, for no particular reason, though I'm not sure that any magazines read by professional men will accept an ad for firearms. Nor do I have any idea if it would be cost-effective, for that matter. Choosing the medium is your job, not mine. I'm only trying my hand at the parts that sound fun.

Anyway, here is a full-page glossy magazine ad: stunning woman in an evening gown and prominent, tasteful, but *very* expensive jewelry on the arm of a man who projects the ideal self-image of your customer: James Bond-ish and so on. Sophisticated, a lady's man, but square-jawed. In the background, a not-so-nice neighborhood, someplace you wouldn't want to wear jewelry. The caption: "I feel so safe when I'm with you." You could possibly try to pose it so his concealed Pistolet is just visible, but that is probably unnecessary and even a bit crude. The picture and the nature of the product should be enough to tell us that young James Bond here is packing heat.

She might instead be getting in a car (the nameplate had better be visible and had better be impeccable), not seeing the men across the street that her escort (your customer) is eying across the car roof with a confident but wary expression. The caption: "I wouldn't have dared park this far from the theatre alone."

The theme I chose was, of course, to appeal to the customer's sense of chivalry. He's not one of *those* people who carries just because he likes guns (that's a redneck thing, unless the guns involved are, say, London Best shotguns or double rifles in African calibers--guns are more socially acceptable if rednecks can't afford them) and certainly not because he's afraid (he is, but we're certainly not going to force him to admit this); but protecting a woman is a gallant and brave thing to do. We want to help him convince himself that he's not carrying because he's afraid, but rather for more virtuous and noble reasons. In the mirror we hold up for him, he is, like Lancelot, the meekest of men in court and the sternest of men on the battlefield.

To be brutally honest, I'm giving him permission to aspire to be the man he badly wants to be and fears he is not. That's why neither jewelry nor France "work"; they belong to the man he is afraid he really is, the man who would be helpless in a real confrontation. You need your cues to belong to the man he hopes he is. Very expensive whiskey, not wine.

I won't claim any of that makes any sense; I wouldn't give you two cents for my marketing ability, and I'm pretty sure those ideas are dreadfully over the top (that's why they were fun to invent). It's an amusing game to play anyway!

7x57

JG87
02-05-2009, 11:20 PM
The point of view of why most people buy guns and what goes into their decision making is exactly what I came to research, and I've gotten quite a bit of content, thank you. That said, our target audience won't make fun of France as much as the general gun industry will. I've not spent much time around gun enthusiasts beyond a family member, a casual friend and a military man I dated for a while. But I have spent a lot of time in the business community. Raised under the CEO of a trade magazine, I've spent my life around the metropolitan businesspeople who have a fair amount of disposable income and choose to spend it in different ways. That audience is primarily what I had in mind, mainly because I'm accustomed to it and know what their tastes are skewed towards. Those kind of people are far less likely to see a gun in the same way as most of the people who read this forum. Yes, when you get down to it, the reason is the same; self-defense. But the way to get to this particular audience always the kind of advertising you see in the gun industry today. Granted, for a 3 week project, I've taken far more research than I was meant to and this is turning out to be a far more in-depth project. Thanks for giving me something a little more realistic to work with! This side-project wasn't meant to be so detailed, but this is an interesting opportunity I think. Taking a subject I know nothing about, researching it heavily and coming up with a marketable concept is exactly what a good Graphic Designer should be able to do. Tomorrow's the day where all this culminates and my group starts to actually build from our research. The project will be finished next week and I should have it uploaded somewhere by the 15th or 16th. I'll post a link here when it's up, for anyone that wants to see the finished product.

SwissFluCase
02-06-2009, 12:45 AM
In the point that guns are not Rolexes, I disagree. Considering who our fabricated audience is, we very intentionally chose to market our guns as something similar. Yes, we are marketing them for self-defense, but we're also marketing our product to people who will pay the extra money for a status symbol. That's what we're going for, so in this case yes, the gun is a Rolex, comparatively. Try this: does our target audience regularly frequent football-themed bars, does our target audience buy off-road vehicles? No. We're going after the metropolitan 20-something business professional. People who are more likely to take a taxi to work than a 4-wheeler. People who probably frequent more upscale, high-class bars after work or for business meetings. People who we can say "Hey, the city's a dangerous place. You need to have some form of protection because you never know what might happen when you're walking home to your apartment in midtown after work." We're not going for the enthusiast hunter angle here. We're going for high-class, upscale, metropolitan. Hence the jewelry idea. James Bond, however you want to describe it. Something that conveys class and elegance. I realize that this is not a marketing angle that would be chosen for the mainstream gun market, but we're trying to capture a very specific audience here that's not inside the normal gun industry.

At the risk of being skewered by my fellow Calgunners, this demographic roughly describes me. I demand quality in my weapons. I don't really care what the special forces in Iraq are carrying. What the Secret Service carries has a lot more weight with me, as my threat profile involves me being in "polite society" most of the time. Being the CEO of a corporation, I rub elbows with this type of personality, and the gun ownership among executives is far higher than people on this board might think.

I aspired to own two handguns in particular. One is the P7M8 that I posted ad copy for in this thread. It is considered merely the second best 9mm handgun in existence. They run for about $1500.00 now, and are worth every penny. I recently acquired one, and everyone at the range wants to be my buddy. :D Check out http://www.parkcitiestactical.com to get an idea of the aura surrounding this weapon.

The other is the SIG P210. This is considered the best 9mm ever made, and the finest military handgun ever made. They are (were) so well made that they priced themselves out of the military and police market, and are now a connoisseur item. Prices range from $2000.00 to $6000.00. Google this pistol. You will see what I mean.

Why do I like these pistols? They have pedigree. They are precision engineered. They are made with a very fine level of fit and finish. They are durable. They are very accurate. They feel right, in the hand and in live fire. In short, they have the same inherent fineness that a Patek watch, a Michel Perchin pen, an Elie Bleu humidor, or that a Brioni suit has. Do they have mass market brand appeal? Not really. People who know the market for these goods can recognize the name, however.

As you can tell from my login name, I enjoy Swiss weaponry. French is spoken in Switzerland, and they have an excellent martial heritage, so the language is OK. The name you suggest, whether you are man or woman, gay or straight, seems to lack power. A fine pistol can be slim, finely finished, discreet, etc., but it must have enough power to kill efficiently. Remember, I may have to point this exquisite example of Swiss engineering and beauty at someone's chest, and violently blast baseball sized chunks of flesh out of him. I would only do this because the target is trying to kill me, or rape my fine female companion (or worse), and I want to make sure the hardware will do it's part. A fine pistol may very well be a status symbol, but it must be capable of acting in the gravest extreme.

It's a confidence thing.

7x57 made a good point with James Bond. I own a classic PPK, and it exudes class. My snubnose .38 is a better gun, but it... Well, it's like eating burgers when I could be eating steak. S&W Model 36's are so pedestrian, even if they are classics in their own right. The 36 is a classic Mustang. The PPK is a classic Ferrari. The P210 is a classic Bugatti. When Bond switched to the P99 it was such a let down. He might as well carry a Glock. :(

As you probably know, but I will restate to make a point, women and rap stars wear jewelry. Gentlemen carry and wear accessories. A fine pistol is understated. Think fine lingerie on a woman. Not everyone gets to see it. A gun is the same way, whether you are a man or a woman. Now here come the Manites jokes... :stuart: No, I don't wear them. I'd sooner be caught in the French Army. :D

Anyways, that is how I see it from my perspective, a slightly snobbish CEO who works and lives in one of the most affluent areas in the US.

Oh My... It's late, I'm tired, and I think I just comitted unspeakable acts against the English language. Better go off to bed...

Again, best of luck.

Regards,


SwissFluCase

zeleny
02-07-2009, 7:32 AM
But...note that Bond carries a *German* Walther.Bond's Walther PPK was made in France by Manurhin, its proofmarks and logos notwithstanding. So was every other postwar PP, PPK, and PPK/S.

Here is one of my MR73 Manurhins, an early production 6" .357 Magnum Sport model with an extra 9x19mm cylinder:

http://pics.livejournal.com/larvatus/pic/0011hz0b

On the day after Christmas of 1994, Captain Thierry P. of GIGN, arguably the most successful counter-terrorist force in the world, entered the hijacked Air France Flight 8969 plane, grounded at the Marseille airport. He served as the point shooter, armed with a 5" .357 Magnum Manurhin MR73 and backed by his partner Eric carrying a 9mm HK05. Thierry killed two Islamist terrorists and wounded a third with his revolver, before taking seven bullets from an AK47 fired by the fourth hijacker. In spite of then absorbing a full complement of grenade shrapnel in his lower body, Thierry P. survived the assault, as also did all 171 hostages. Not so the four terrorists, who had been planning to deploy the plane as an incendiary missile against the Eiffel Tower. Thierry could have armed himself with any firearm. He chose an MR73.

You also bring in France's, ah, less than stellar engineering image.You mean, like inventing smokeless powder (http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/FWWvieille.htm)?

sugi942
02-07-2009, 8:19 AM
Not that I'm particularly fond of modern France, but they did also manage the first lighter than air manned flight.

7x57
02-07-2009, 8:48 AM
Remember, I may have to point this exquisite example of Swiss engineering and beauty at someone's chest, and violently blast baseball sized chunks of flesh out of him.


Your expensive 9mm can do *that*? Maybe paying that premium *is* worth it after all. :eek:


Oh My... It's late, I'm tired, and I think I just comitted unspeakable acts against the English language.


Nah, I think you must be OK. This line is a minor classic:


Think fine lingerie on a woman. Not everyone gets to see it.


I'll have to remember that. :D


Anyways, that is how I see it from my perspective, a slightly snobbish CEO who works and lives in one of the most affluent areas in the US.


You know, for a board full of twenty-somethings who like to talk about how to prepare for the coming zombie apocalypse, there are a surprising number of CEOs here. I guess CEOs need to prepare for the Living Dead to erupt from the grave too. ;)

7x57

7x57
02-07-2009, 8:54 AM
Bond's Walther PPK was made in France by Manurhin, its proofmarks and logos notwithstanding.


And Roland was Charlemagne's paladin, too, and people say he was no sissy. :D

The point is that we were talking marketing, and in marketing reality doesn't matter, only stereotype and perception. None of those things you mentioned have made an impression on the public consciousness, so they don't exist. People buy based on the fantasy world in their head, not the one they stub their toes on.

For exhaustive illustrations of this principle, I refer you to the last presidential election. :43:

7x57

zeleny
02-07-2009, 8:58 AM
there are a surprising number of CEOs here
http://pics.livejournal.com/larvatus/pic/001dx4bc

zeleny
02-07-2009, 9:11 AM
The point is that we were talking marketing, and in marketing reality doesn't matter, only stereotype and perception.Q: What's the difference between sales and marketing?
A: A salesman knows whenever he's telling a lie.

If "Grey Goose" worked for Sidney Frank, why not shove "Pistolet" in the same metrosexual niche?

Tarn_Helm
02-07-2009, 9:36 AM
The name sucks out loud.

I own guns for hunting, target shooting and self defense.

Been shooting since I was a small boy, really got into firearms after high school.

Firearms are an everyday thing. Wallet, sunglasses, watch, keys, pistol (except where prohibited by law)

The "appeal" is independence, not having to rely on anyone else for my own preservation.

I spend more than I should, but as not as much as Id like.

As far as manufacturers, I dont have a specific favorite, just favorite types of firearms.

You cannot successfully pick a brand name until YOU KNOW YOUR TARGETED DEMOGRAPHIC (no pun intended).

You guys have started out bassackwards.

"Pistolet" is the wrong name.

Do not compromise or go along with the group.

It is the wrong name.

Most young professionals who would be interested in firearms are male.

That will take one specific marketing campaign aimed at the values and attitudes of young males.


The other, and by far smaller target demographic, will be FEMALE, and thus it will require one specific marketing campaign aimed at the values and attitudes of young FEmales, which are not the same as young males, at least in terms of how you present your product as associated with those attitudes and values.

Young males are buying the testosterone factor: invincible, prepared, ready for any threat, silent and secret ("Mr. Slick"), strong, confident, independent sheepdog facing down pack of wolves . . . Get it?

Young females: vulnerable, may need to protect offspring in uneven battle against large predatory male, fearful, dark rainy nights with lightning, bump in the night, scary dark parking lots . . .

You cannot pitch gun stuff to women the way you pitch it to men and vice versa.

You guys need to study the psychology of gun people before you start naming your product.

Go to some gun blogs (http://xavierthoughts.blogspot.com/) (where you can also find links to other gun blogs), buy a bunch of gun magazines at a well-stocked magazine stand, meet with your group over a BIG pot of coffee and start reading--then start discussing the people of the gun culture--figure out what makes them tick before you try to develop a persuasive campaign.

Go to a book store and look at Armed America (http://www.amazon.com/Armed-America-Portraits-Owners-Their/dp/0896895432) and Thank God I Had a Gun (http://www.amazon.com/Thank-God-Had-Gun-Self-Defense/dp/0965678458/ref=pd_lpo_k2_dp_k2a_1_img?pf_rd_p=304485601&pf_rd_s=lpo-top-stripe-2&pf_rd_t=201&pf_rd_i=0896895432&pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_r=17J39P050RP6SR2A04HH) and The Concealed Handgun Manual (http://www.amazon.com/Concealed-Handgun-Manual-Choose-Defense/dp/0965678474/ref=pd_sim_b_1) and Stayin' Alive: Armed and Female in an Unsafe World (http://www.amazon.com/Stayin-Alive-Armed-Female-Unsafe/dp/0936783435/ref=pd_sim_b_8) . . .

You guys have a lot of homework to do.
:beatdeadhorse5:

DiscoBayJoe
02-07-2009, 9:39 AM
You shoudl select the name "GAAAT". It looks like something you'd see on a watch face.

7x57
02-07-2009, 9:51 AM
Y
You guys need to study the psychology of gun people before you start naming your product.


As far as I can tell, OP has already decided that he "gets it" for the audience he imagines, and that this is non-negotiable (one might ponder the wisdom of refusing to listen to the most consistent suggestion of the people he chose to ask, but...). This may well get an "A" on the assignment, as the grader is very very unlikely to know anything about guns. But the real world would probably think differently--I would not invest.

That said--I think they picked a very difficult assignment, a product that few of them understand for a very unusual and image-driven market. So they should get some respect for choosing it rather than going with something simple, and more for trying to really investigate it on a gunnie board. If I were grading I would give real credit for that effort, because I suspect more will be learned.

The problem is that basically guns are simple machines and the designs became mature around a century ago, the real advances in the last century were mostly in propellants and projectile design. And you simply cannot (and do not wish to) test them for their intended use, a situation you plan to never let happen. So in a sense image matters more than we like to admit...look at the successful names. So many of them are associated with the American West, the US military, or Germany. Beretta is one of the world's oldest industrial corporations.

Hard game to break into. But not impossible...my favorite pistol is a Kimber. The name (IMO) is actually very weak sounding for a firearm (though not as weak as Pistolet--almost nothing is as weak as Pistolet), but they have certainly overcome that and become an important player in their niche.

Albeit with 98 year-old-design, I note. Also note that my pistol happens to be essentially the LAPD SWAT model, which provides a certain manly association of the sort we've been trying to point out. :-)

7x57

Tarn_Helm
02-07-2009, 10:06 AM
As far as I can tell, OP has already decided that he "gets it" for the audience he imagines, and that this is non-negotiable (one might ponder the wisdom of refusing to listen to the most consistent suggestion of the people he chose to ask, but...). This may well get an "A" on the assignment, as the grader is very very unlikely to know anything about guns. But the real world would probably think differently--I would not invest.

That said--I think they picked a very difficult assignment, a product that few of them understand for a very unusual and image-driven market. So they should get some respect for choosing it rather than going with something simple, and more for trying to really investigate it on a gunnie board. If I were grading I would give real credit for that effort, because I suspect more will be learned.

The problem is that basically guns are simple machines and the designs became mature around a century ago, the real advances in the last century were mostly in propellants and projectile design. And you simply cannot (and do not wish to) test them for their intended use, a situation you plan to never let happen. So in a sense image matters more than we like to admit...look at the successful names. So many of them are associated with the American West, the US military, or Germany. Beretta is one of the world's oldest industrial corporations.

Hard game to break into. But not impossible...my favorite pistol is a Kimber. The name (IMO) is actually very weak sounding for a firearm (though not as weak as Pistolet--almost nothing is as weak as Pistolet), but they have certainly overcome that and become an important player in their niche.

Albeit with 98 year-old-design, I note. Also note that my pistol happens to be essentially the LAPD SWAT model, which provides a certain manly association of the sort we've been trying to point out. :-)

7x57
[emphasis added by me]

No buts about it: wrong name.

Whatever.

Here is info I left out.

Since I might be a paranoid gun nut, here are imaginary answers to the little survey which some have posted:

Why do you own a gun?
It is the core of my value system: self-reliance.

. . . also, "Self/home defense purposes, hunting, target shooting, and its my favorite hobby."

How many do you own?
1 Glock Model 22
2 S&W 638
3 Walther P.38
4 Charter Bulldog .44 Special
5 Star Model B
6 Kimber 1911
7 S&W M&P (the real thing, a revolver from 1949)
8 Colt DS
9 Colt Agent
10 Colt Cobra
11 Rossi .38 snubby
13 S&W Model 36-1
14 S&W 342
15 S&W 296
16 S&W Model 66
17 Ruger GP 100
18 Ruger SP 101
19 Kel-Tec SU 16
20 Remington 870 12 Gauge
21 Marlin .22 semiauto rifle
22 CZ 550 bolt action hunting rifle
23 Something that looks like AR 15 but is legal here in CA
24 S&W Model 13-4
25 S&W Model 624 (but still waiting to pick it up)

When did you start getting interested in guns and why?
Loved toy guns as kid but never was around real ones.
Brother became LEO and tried to convince me of their necessity and of my civic duties; the L.A. riots filled in the gaps and I became an instant convert; further study of core documents pertaining to ideas of America's Founding Fathers was the final case hardening applied to my thought on firearms.

Are guns something that is a part of your regular life or lifestyle, or something on the side?
Essential to my existence.
They will be surrendered only upon my death.

What about guns appeals to you?
Firearms can be used to defend me against threats that I could not otherwise defeat alone (or if necessary, in collaboration with others).

How much money a year on average do you spend on guns?
About $5,000 per annum.

Do you buy guns from a specific manufacturer?
Usually.
My early days of experimenting with untested or cheap brands are over (Star, Charter, etc.).
Typically: Glock, Ruger, S&W, Remington, CZ, Kimber, and any gun I have actually tested at the range and found adequate.

rayra
02-07-2009, 10:09 AM
In the point that guns are not Rolexes, I disagree. Considering who our fabricated audience is, we very intentionally chose to market our guns as something similar. Yes, we are marketing them for self-defense, but we're also marketing our product to people who will pay the extra money for a status symbol. That's what we're going for, so in this case yes, the gun is a Rolex, comparatively. Try this: does our target audience regularly frequent football-themed bars, does our target audience buy off-road vehicles? No. We're going after the metropolitan 20-something business professional. People who are more likely to take a taxi to work than a 4-wheeler. People who probably frequent more upscale, high-class bars after work or for business meetings. People who we can say "Hey, the city's a dangerous place. You need to have some form of protection because you never know what might happen when you're walking home to your apartment in midtown after work." We're not going for the enthusiast hunter angle here. We're going for high-class, upscale, metropolitan. Hence the jewelry idea. James Bond, however you want to describe it. Something that conveys class and elegance. I realize that this is not a marketing angle that would be chosen for the mainstream gun market, but we're trying to capture a very specific audience here that's not inside the normal gun industry.

Sorry but this again shows an idealistic / stylized ignorance of the real world, because the milieu you are describing is almost always saddled with massively restrictive handgun control. The very urbane sophisticate cityscape you posit denies your target customer the right to arm themselves. DC, NYC, Chicago, all have near-total bans on CCW or even bare ownership of handguns.
And increasingly more often than not - and demonstrated by any county by count voting map - those same urbane denizens are indoctrinated to be rabidly anti-gun.

You can craft your yuppie campaign, but it will be a fiction, based on a fiction.

jazman
02-07-2009, 11:28 AM
Just post this pic with the caption; if your target market has any class and style at all you will succeed:

Snakes. Good guys love them, bad guys fear them.
http://i242.photobucket.com/albums/ff199/jazman23/Python006.jpg

You are welcome.

SwissFluCase
02-07-2009, 11:28 AM
Your expensive 9mm can do *that*? Maybe paying that premium *is* worth it after all. :eek:



That's all in the ammo. The european designs love +P and +P+. Add in well designed hollowpoints, and you have a winner!

You know, for a board full of twenty-somethings who like to talk about how to prepare for the coming zombie apocalypse, there are a surprising number of CEOs here. I guess CEOs need to prepare for the Living Dead to erupt from the grave too. ;)

7x57

My company is nowhere near being public, but "zombie apocalypse" would describe your average shareholders meeting. :p

Regards,


SwissFluCase

JG87
02-07-2009, 11:51 AM
Sorry but this again shows an idealistic / stylized ignorance of the real world, because the milieu you are describing is almost always saddled with massively restrictive handgun control. The very urbane sophisticate cityscape you posit denies your target customer the right to arm themselves. DC, NYC, Chicago, all have near-total bans on CCW or even bare ownership of handguns.
And increasingly more often than not - and demonstrated by any county by count voting map - those same urbane denizens are indoctrinated to be rabidly anti-gun.

You can craft your yuppie campaign, but it will be a fiction, based on a fiction.

We're marketing to an audience that likely doesn't know a whole lot more than we do about the matter. I'd expect that they lie somewhere in the middle ground between my knowledge of guns (none) and the average gun enthusiast. And because of that, we're focusing on the aspects of a product that usually appeal most to a high-income metropolitan business professional. If we were going after your audience; that is, gun enthusiasts, we wouldn't be marketing the campaign as we are now. But we're not, we're going for an audience that's not a core part of the gun industry. Also, I hadn't considered any handgun control laws, but it's a simple three week project and in the real world we'd be working for a client that would be aware of these things. Not too mention the client would already have a product ready, a distributor, etc etc. We've been having to play the role of client and designer for this project. This project has become much more complex and gleaned far more information from research than any of the other groups in our class. We're quite excited about it, but please do keep in mind that as designers our job is be creative. It is the client's job to take care of the distribution, the product, and be aware of any laws or restrictions in effect. We do the market research and come up with something that we believe will appeal to our client's target audience. If our client tells us he wants to market guns to 20something high-income metropolitan business professionals, then that's what we'll do.

By the way, we considered marketing guns to yuppies at first, but that seemed too simple a project to take on (fish in a barrel, anyone?) We wanted a genuine challenge that would produce something we could all put in our respective portfolios. And that's exactly what we got and we're all very happy about it.

SwissFluCase
02-07-2009, 12:03 PM
We're marketing to an audience that likely doesn't know a whole lot more than we do about the matter. I'd expect that they lie somewhere in the middle ground between my knowledge of guns (none) and the average gun enthusiast. And because of that, we're focusing on the aspects of a product that usually appeal most to a high-income metropolitan business professional. If we were going after your audience; that is, gun enthusiasts, we wouldn't be marketing the campaign as we are now. But we're not, we're going for an audience that's not a core part of the gun industry. Also, I hadn't considered any handgun control laws, but it's a simple three week project and in the real world we'd be working for a client that would be aware of these things. Not too mention the client would already have a product ready, a distributor, etc etc. We've been having to play the role of client and designer for this project. This project has become much more complex and gleaned far more information from research than any of the other groups in our class. We're quite excited about it, but please do keep in mind that as designers our job is be creative. It is the client's job to take care of the distribution, the product, and be aware of any laws or restrictions in effect. We do the market research and come up with something that we believe will appeal to our client's target audience. If our client tells us he wants to market guns to 20something high-income metropolitan business professionals, then that's what we'll do.

By the way, we considered marketing guns to yuppies at first, but that seemed too simple a project to take on (fish in a barrel, anyone?) We wanted a genuine challenge that would produce something we could all put in our respective portfolios. And that's exactly what we got and we're all very happy about it.

I think you guys are doing the right thing about doing your research. As you have found out, anything do to with firearms involves controversy. Firearms are basically a kind of life insurance, so people have strong opinions regarding what they will trust their lives to. You're holding out quite well in the face of our sometimes raucous nature.

I wouldn't worry about the laws too much. It's a marketing project, not a legal project. Handgun possession has been affirmed by the Supreme Court, and that is changing some of the worst gun control laws in this nation. You would be looking at a growth market, and a potential investor would realize that. Personally I think there is plenty of market for a high end firearms retailer that stocked fine firearms and accessories, such as premium holsters and combat flashlights, as well as offering training. I'd love to see such a store opened up in Union Square. That would be so choice on a number of different levels.

Regards,


SwissFluCase

JG87
02-07-2009, 12:11 PM
I think you guys are doing the right thing about doing your research. As you have found out, anything do to with firearms involves controversy. Firearms are basically a kind of life insurance, so people have strong opinions regarding what they will trust their lives to. You're holding out quite well in the face of our sometimes raucous nature.

I wouldn't worry about the laws too much. It's a marketing project, not a legal project. Handgun possession has been affirmed by the Supreme Court, and that is changing some of the worst gun control laws in this nation. You would be looking at a growth market, and a potential investor would realize that. Personally I think there is plenty of market for a high end firearms retailer that stocked fine firearms and accessories, such as premium holsters and combat flashlights, as well as offering training. I'd love to see such a store opened up in Union Square. That would be so choice on a number of different levels.

Regards,


SwissFluCase

True on all counts, thank you. And we had discussed the idea of our stores offering basic training to the people who buy our guns when we were first coming up with our concept. But that's an idea for another campaign. You've hit a lot of our concepts on the nose so far and a lot of the best information we got on this project came from your posts. Thanks a lot!

7x57
02-07-2009, 12:16 PM
That's all in the ammo. The european designs love +P and +P+. Add in well designed hollowpoints, and you have a winner!


I was mostly just having fun because no gun blows chunks off of people, and handgun cartridges are actually all inadequate, except that they are controllable in a sidearm.

But I agree 9mm is very ammo dependent, though I think the primary issue is bullet design rather than velocity (the best thing about velocity is it is easier to get reliable expansion). I wouldn't even consider it if I was restricted to hardball or otherwise poor bullets. But if the bullet does it's job, all is good.


My company is nowhere near being public, but "zombie apocalypse" would describe your average shareholders meeting. :p


So very many ways to go with this. ;)

7x57

SwissFluCase
02-07-2009, 12:51 PM
I was mostly just having fun because no gun blows chunks off of people, and handgun cartridges are actually all inadequate, except that they are controllable in a sidearm.

But I agree 9mm is very ammo dependent, though I think the primary issue is bullet design rather than velocity (the best thing about velocity is it is easier to get reliable expansion). I wouldn't even consider it if I was restricted to hardball or otherwise poor bullets. But if the bullet does it's job, all is good.



So very many ways to go with this. ;)

7x57

I had to be dramatic for the n00b. I don't think many of them have thought about the gory details of a self defense shooting. :ack2:

Regards,


SwissFluCase

SwissFluCase
02-07-2009, 12:55 PM
True on all counts, thank you. And we had discussed the idea of our stores offering basic training to the people who buy our guns when we were first coming up with our concept. But that's an idea for another campaign. You've hit a lot of our concepts on the nose so far and a lot of the best information we got on this project came from your posts. Thanks a lot!

Glad to be of help. I had to do these when I was in class. I'm also in that mode now as we are on a push to expand our business. Lastly, I think a high end gun retailer would do wonders for our rights in general.

Keep us posted on your progress! :thumbsup:

Regards,


SwissFluCase

7x57
02-07-2009, 1:15 PM
Lastly, I think a high end gun retailer would do wonders for our rights in general.

You know, I do think part of the disconnect between some of the comments (including mine) and the OP's project is that we have experienced the social bias against guns. The sort of market they are aiming for doesn't quite exist, but for social reasons. High-end guns seem to me to be particularly dependent on word-of-mouth, but that is affected by how many outlets would not take ads for guns.

It wasn't always that way--Sears used to sell a *lot* of guns, no different than selling other tools like screwdrivers. That's an *enormous* difference in social stigma. It's possible, I suppose, that it could be that way again, at least if we get the legal protection we ought to from Heller and it's children. That is the kind of environment in which one could more easily market in the way their project describes.

Here's one more bit of possibly useful info for the OP that I didn't think to say before: the *really* high-end gun market is actually owned by individual gunsmiths. Guns are simple enough machines that a top-quality one can readily be handmade (actually, any machinist who cannot make a pretty good gun of any type in his shop is incompetent, that's how simple they are), and of course a genuine hand-made product has a special cachet. And there are all the variations of semi-handmade guns that start with many factory parts but are lovingly crafted into something much better. It is very easy to spend several thousand dollars on a gun that appears very like another factory gun, and you can't tell the difference. Those who know recognize the name.

The absolute top-end of this phenomenon is British; the only gun makers to survive their bans (that I know of) make African double rifles and shotguns that cost somewhere between a new car and a new (very nice) home. What are you buying? A million dollars worth of name, in some cases.

I don't know if that is useful, but it may be nice to know what the very top end of the market is. Your niche is, I gather, at the top end of the mass-production market. Just above you are the semi-handmade products where the gunsmith's name and reputation is everything.

FWIW.

7x57

JG87
02-13-2009, 11:18 AM
Well I promised to show the fruits of my research, so without further ado!

Go out in style (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v417/Ieaden/Pistolet-Web.png)

I learned a lesson with this project. Quite a few, actually. But the main lesson was don't miss the photoshoot. Not if there's another designer on the team who can handle it, not if you're sick, not even if you're on your deathbed. Never, never miss the shoot. The content didn't quite turn out how I had envisioned conceptually, but lesson learned. Just glad I learned it in school rather than out in the professional world. That said, I still like how it turned out. Not the concept I wanted, but the project still turned out alright. So, I thank you for all your research and assistance in this project, it was much appreciated!

(Before you ask, because I'm sure this is the very first thing you're all going to look at, the guns are fake. They were blue rubber props spray painted black. We firstly couldn't get our hands on an actual gun and secondly didn't want to use another manufacturer's gun for our gun ad. And no, there's no information. This is the first of a campaign, meant for branding and awareness. Further runs into the campaign would include more information. We just want people to recognize the name first.)

tcrpe
02-13-2009, 12:31 PM
Why do you own a gun?

Because I can.




(heh heh heh, you didn't ask about ammo . . . . . . )

M. D. Van Norman
02-13-2009, 12:50 PM
Well I promised to show the fruits of my research, so without further ado!

Not bad, all things considered, and I can see the direction you were heading. However, you do realize the double entendre of your tagline, I hope.

SwissFluCase
02-13-2009, 1:14 PM
Not bad, all things considered, and I can see the direction you were heading. However, you do realize the double entendre of your tagline, I hope.

I agree. The end product looks nice. I like the logo, and it seems supiciously like you lifted the lines of an El Capitan Hi Power. Always a classic pistol. :D

I do agree about the double entendre. The English language can be really screwy at times....

Still, good job! We expect good grades of you.... ;)

Regards,


SwissFluCase

JG87
02-13-2009, 3:38 PM
Not bad, all things considered, and I can see the direction you were heading. However, you do realize the double entendre of your tagline, I hope.

Yes, we chose it for specifically that reason. Business people tend to have a sense of black humor and we were appealing to that.

PeterNewton
05-10-2013, 5:12 AM
At the risk of being skewered by my fellow Calgunners, this demographic roughly describes me. I demand quality in my weapons. I don't really care what the special forces in Iraq are carrying. What the Secret Service carries has a lot more weight with me, as my threat profile involves me being in "polite society" most of the time. Being the CEO of a corporation, I rub elbows with this type of personality, and the gun ownership among executives is far higher than people on this board might think.

I aspired to own two handguns in particular. One is the P7M8 that I posted ad copy for in this thread. It is considered merely the second best 9mm handgun in existence. They run for about $1500.00 now, and are worth every penny. I recently acquired one, and everyone at the range wants to be my buddy. :D Check out to get an idea of the aura surrounding this weapon.

The other is the SIG P210. This is considered the best 9mm ever made, and the finest military handgun ever made. They are (were) so well made that they priced themselves out of the military and police market, and are now a connoisseur item. Prices range from $2000.00 to $6000.00. Google this pistol. You will see what I mean.

Why do I like these pistols? They have pedigree. They are precision engineered. They are made with a very fine level of fit and finish. They are durable. They are very accurate. They feel right, in the hand and in live fire. In short, they have the same inherent fineness that a Patek watch, a Michel Perchin pen, an Elie Bleu humidor, or that a Brioni suit has. Do they have mass market brand appeal? Not really. People who know the market for these goods can recognize the name, however.

As you can tell from my login name, I enjoy Swiss weaponry. French is spoken in Switzerland, and they have an excellent martial heritage, so the language is OK. The name you suggest, whether you are man or woman, gay or straight, seems to lack power. A fine pistol can be slim, finely finished, discreet, etc., but it must have enough power to kill efficiently. Remember, I may have to point this exquisite example of Swiss engineering and beauty at someone's chest, and violently blast baseball sized chunks of flesh out of him. I would only do this because the target is trying to kill me, or rape my fine female companion (or worse), and I want to make sure the hardware will do it's part. A fine pistol may very well be a status symbol, but it must be capable of acting in the gravest extreme.

It's a confidence thing.

7x57 made a good point with James Bond. I own a classic PPK, and it exudes class. My snubnose .38 is a better gun, but it... Well, it's like eating burgers when I could be eating steak. S&W Model 36's are so pedestrian, even if they are classics in their own right. The 36 is a classic Mustang. The PPK is a classic Ferrari. The P210 is a classic Bugatti. When Bond switched to the P99 it was such a let down. He might as well carry a Glock. :(

As you probably know, but I will restate to make a point, women and rap stars wear jewelry. Gentlemen carry and wear accessories. A fine pistol is understated. Think fine cheap lingerie (http://www.robustbuy.com/womens-clothes-lingerie-sets-c-1083_1085_1088.html) on a woman. Not everyone gets to see it. A gun is the same way, whether you are a man or a woman. Now here come the Manites jokes... :stuart: No, I don't wear them. I'd sooner be caught in the French Army. :D

Anyways, that is how I see it from my perspective, a slightly snobbish CEO who works and lives in one of the most affluent areas in the US.

Oh My... It's late, I'm tired, and I think I just comitted unspeakable acts against the English language. Better go off to bed...

Again, best of luck.

Regards,


SwissFluCase
I completely agree with you regarding need of gun. Even I am CEO of my company and it becomes important to have some personal safety all time.:43::43:. Gun is the best way to do it

ElDub1950
05-10-2013, 7:03 AM
Beside agreeing with all the above that the name sucks, I'll suggest your research audience might be skewed.

Why we have / like guns may not be relevant. Perhaps your question and target should be 'why should young professionals own a gun'.

Certainly there are many young professional members here, but seems like most members are gun enthusiasts, and is seems you intend to attract new shooters.

For young professionals who are already gun enthusiasts, you will just be competing with every other gun. If you want to attract new shooters, you will have to market to the self defense benefits to attract them.

jben
05-10-2013, 8:49 AM
Did you guys check the date on this thread?

ElDub1950
05-10-2013, 9:52 AM
Did you guys check the date on this thread?

LOL No I didn't! :eek:

high_revs
05-10-2013, 11:25 AM
edit.. oooollddddddd

Fritz265
05-10-2013, 12:34 PM
The best long-term marketing plan you can implement for firearms is to keep electing Democrats.

jdouglas
05-11-2013, 12:09 AM
http://www.camaro5.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=206982&stc=1&d=1297718087

lilro
05-11-2013, 1:02 AM
old thread is old

adamy
05-11-2013, 1:21 AM
Strong bump

uhlan1
05-11-2013, 1:25 AM
Why do you own a gun?
Started training police dogs almost 20 years ago. On the street realized just how dangerous and random the world is. Realized the police do not protect me. Merely pick up the shattered pieces of people's lives. Every Crown Vic should have a bucket and sponge in the trunk. Average 911 response time where I live? 21 minutes. Don't know a single street cop who is pro gun control, not a one, and I know a lot. I am foremost responsible for my and my families protection, not the state. I can count on myself, I cannot count on a bunch of pampered liberals (you asked)

How many do you own?
A lot. Mostly semi-auto pistols, compacts, sub-compact, mostly full-size since the state in its infinite wisdom feels I am not capable of my own self-defense. My liberal county will not issue CCW (though my county gave Diane Feinstein one , they felt her life is worth more than mine or the lives of my family). We also of course have a surprisingly high crime rate. Shotgun and some evil black rifles.

When did you start getting interested in guns and why?
Refer to first question. Self-defense and recreation. I find shooting very relaxing yet challenging.

Are guns something that is a part of your regular life or lifestyle, or something on the side?
Outside of work and family, it is my passion.

What about guns appeals to you?
The total body and mental focus. Grip, stance, breathing, concentration. Recoil management. I find it therapeutic, relaxing. The ability to defend myself and my family, again, the police do not.

How much money a year on average do you spend on guns?
A lot.

Do you buy guns from a specific manufacturer? If so, why? If not, why not?
Glock - reliable, light will always shoot. Sig Sauer - field proven, classic beauty. CZ- bloody accurate.

Drop the name, it is dreadful. I person who would buy a "Pistolet" will buy only one gun and will never shoot it. Target that crowd, the trendy, the "with its" and you'll drown in red ink.

jdouglas
05-11-2013, 1:33 AM
http://gal.patheticcockroach.com/var/resizes/humor/thread-necromancy/thread_necromancy_5.jpg?m=1341433247

joepamjohn
05-11-2013, 8:00 AM
I personally am not too thrilled on the name, but my group members wanted something French. .

Your group wants name it something in "French". How about Surrender, just like the current administration wants us to do with our guns.:facepalm:

Mr357magnum
05-11-2013, 7:37 PM
I personally am not too thrilled on the name, but my group members wanted something French. The idea we were going for was sexy, classic, timeless. Think jewelry. We want to market to both genders, but the ideas we've come up with thus far seem more slanted towards a female clientele. Either way, there will be no pink guns. We wanted something a little closer to the James Bond idea of classy and sexy.

maybe 'pistolero' instead of pistolet?

jdouglas
05-11-2013, 8:43 PM
http://gal.patheticcockroach.com/var/albums/humor/thread-necromancy/warning_thread_necromancy.jpg?m=1341432464