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smokingloon
02-04-2009, 4:15 PM
Supervisors press on outsourcing security from sheriff
February 3rd, 2009, 5:26 pm · 73 Comments · posted by NORBERTO SANTANA JR.

County supervisors said Tuesday that the latest disclosure coming out of the sheriff’s department, where top officials disparaged activists and supervisors in text messages during a Nov. 18 board meeting, has driven them to remove deputies from handling security at the Hall of Administration.

“Those messages, which occured during the meeting, reflect a disturbing misunderstanding of the democratic process and contempt for the board itself,” said Supervisor Chris Norby.

“I don’t consider any public meeting as mortal combat,” Norby said referencing to the text messages sent by Assistant Sheriff Mike Hillmann at the Nov. 18 meeting.

This latest flare up between county supervisors and Sheriff Sandra Hutchens comes in the wake of a brewing battle over access to security video tapes in the boardroom. Supervisors were informed that a Sheriff’s investigator looked at their notes during a raucus January board meeting.

On Tuesday, supervisors met in closed session to discuss the tapes, as well as legal options. Hutchens, who has declined to give supervisors the tapes, also said she’s considering hiring her own lawyer.

Norby said he had already spoken with Santa Ana Mayor Miguel Pulido about hiring the SAPD to provide building security. The mayor said he was open to the idea, Norby said.

“There’s an urgency to this,” said Supervisor Janet Nguyen, who Hillmann targeted in a text that said she needed to find a pet.

Nguyen said she doesn’t want to even wait for a request for proposals, and is interested in ways of contracting out security at the Hall of Administration immediately to “an agency that doesn’t have contempt for the board and the residents who come here.”

Supervisor Pat Bates also made a point of noting that supervisors want more control over board security, hinting at the large security presence that met gun activists at the Jan. 13 meeting. Bates made a point of saying that no board office, nor the CEO, was aware of what the sheriff’s department planned.

CEO Tom Mauk said he was preparing a full update by next month.

Nick Berardino, general manager for the Orange County Employees Association, wasn’t happy about the outsourcing plan because he represents the sheriff’s special officers who are in charge of security at the Hall of Administration.

“The SSO’s had nothing to do with what took place regarding the security and the tapes. This is yet another example of how the little guys are put in harms way by the mistakes of their leadership and executives,” he said.

Yet as the distrust between the board and sheriff builds, there might not be a way to defuse the issue.

Berardino thinks that Hutchens should indeed turn over the tapes to the supervisors before it gets uglier.

“Turn them over. Transparency in government is very important. And they should turn over the tapes,” he said.

While Hutchens said she won’t turn over monitoring tapes because it could expose undercover officers, Berardino thought that the supervisors assurances they wouldn’t turn the tapes over to others should be accepted.

“There are very few in the county that have bigger battles and disagreements with the board than I do. But that said, I trust that the board wouldn’t do anything to compromise the safety of undercover officers.”

http://totalbuzz.freedomblogging.com/2009/02/03/board-of-supervisors-press-on-outsourcing-security-from-sheriff/12996/

GMONEY
02-04-2009, 4:21 PM
Oh boy this is getting good! They need to ask for her RESIGNATION! :popcorn:

glockman19
02-04-2009, 4:23 PM
Why don't they just fire her?

They did hire her...didn't they?

Unfortunately, this is the contempt we in Los Angeles County experience.

.454
02-04-2009, 4:24 PM
http://www.w3bdevil.com/forums/That-Is-Excellent-MrBurns.jpg

Doggboy
02-04-2009, 4:24 PM
What a bunch of FUD!! Hutchens wants us to believe she was using multiple under cover officers as security in a public forum!! If this is the case it is her who has put her fellow officers at risk, but some how I doubt this is the real reason for not releasing the tapes.

berto
02-04-2009, 4:26 PM
She won't hand over the tapes?

She should be out of a job. Undercover at a board meeting? Does she think OCSD is the KGB?

yellowfin
02-04-2009, 4:26 PM
“I don’t consider any public meeting as mortal combat,” Norby said referencing to the text messages sent by Assistant Sheriff Mike Hillmann at the Nov. 18 meeting.Maybe he doesn't, but it's possible they do.
http://photos-a.ak.fbcdn.net/photos-ak-snc1/v2183/186/113/27431207/n27431207_39818728_8172.jpg

Casual Observer
02-04-2009, 5:05 PM
“The SSO’s had nothing to do with what took place regarding the security and the tapes. This is yet another example of how the little guys are put in harms way by the mistakes of their leadership and executives,” he said.

I think this speaks volumes about the rank-and-file's approval of their Sheriff.

Hutchens is not going to get a lot of support from her own deparment if she keeps it up.

BroncoBob
02-04-2009, 5:16 PM
She should be handed her pink slip.

kermit315
02-04-2009, 6:02 PM
I want to know why she hasnt been fired yet. She wasnt elected, she was appointed to fill a vacancy. does that create some legal hold for her on that office?

Casual Observer
02-04-2009, 6:06 PM
I want to know why she hasnt been fired yet. She wasnt elected, she was appointed to fill a vacancy. does that create some legal hold for her on that office?

The BOS has no power to reverse their decision. They only have the power to appoint a replacement if there is a vacancy in the middle of a Sheriff's term. As stated in the other thread, the BoS has no direct control over the Sheriff. They can issue directives, but Hutchens has basically given them the finger and keeps on trucking.

The only way she will leave that office is through a recall (unlikely), loosing the next election in 2010 (statistically unlikely...but she's not making a lot of friends either), resignation (unlikely), indicted for criminal activity (unlikely) or death (car accident, struck by lightning, etc.).

Like it or not, it appears the BoS looked at the short-term gain by bringing in (a) the first female OC sheriff who's also (b) someone who didn't serve under Corona.

Our best bet is to push for a viable candidate in the next election. Unfortunately, everyone's favorite, Mr. Hunt- who almost beat Corona in 2006- has stated that he would not run again.

N6ATF
02-04-2009, 6:13 PM
The supervisors need to tell SAPD that all OCSD are persona non grata, and the only way they will be attending the meetings are via Skype video chat or in handcuffs and orange jumpsuits in the dock. Enough of their treasonous espionage BS.

CCWFacts
02-04-2009, 6:14 PM
Oh boy this is getting good! They need to ask for her RESIGNATION! :popcorn:

Yeah, you couldn't make this up. They could sell movie rights. How could anyone in 2009 not realize that text messages are getting logged, and are obviously public records? And even things which aren't public records would be subject to subpoena. But clearly, internal communications of county officials (deputies) are subject to PRAR, unless they fall under some of the narrow exemptions (these don't).

yellowfin
02-04-2009, 7:00 PM
Something tells me criminal charges wouldn't be too unlikely. US 42- 1983 (or is it 43 - 1982?) on 1st amendment grounds would fit, so do you think that would work?

N6ATF
02-04-2009, 11:24 PM
Maybe he doesn't, but it's possible they do.
http://photos-a.ak.fbcdn.net/photos-ak-snc1/v2183/186/113/27431207/n27431207_39818728_8172.jpg

Someone should put their heads on a couple of Mortal Kombat characters and have them fight a walking Constitution and lose, one by one.

bwiese
02-05-2009, 1:11 AM
Perhaps the supervisors will realize it's high time to convert the OCSD/OCPD retirement plans to defined-contribution (401K/403b).

Keep 'em occupied! That undersheriff & his minions will be fighting mortal combat to keep their retire-at-mid-50s+ inflation indexed gold plated pension.

I know Moorlach has wondered about sustainability of rich county pensions, and I'd bet this drama with Norby & Nguyen just put another coupla votes into the fold...

eazyle
02-05-2009, 1:58 AM
Someone should put their heads on a couple of Mortal Kombat characters and have them fight a walking Constitution and lose, one by one.

I tried....LOL

smokingloon
02-05-2009, 2:07 AM
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/attachment.php?attachmentid=16642&d=1233827867

where is the pencil?

In the OC Sheriff's blog, they posted a letter by Moorlach stating that "The Sheriff has not refused to provide copies of the recordings from security cameras showing close-ups of two unsuspecting Supervisors as they participated in the January 13, 2009 Board meeting".

http://blog.ocsd.org/category/Board-of-Supervisors.aspx

tango-52
02-05-2009, 6:28 AM
Moorlach reviewed 90 seconds out of 18 hours of video. OCCCWS requested 6 hours from each of the three surveillance cameras. The cameras and digital recording equipment are owned by the Board of Supervisors, not the Sheriff. It is believed that the video will document the fact that the palinclothesed SWAT team was searching, harrassing, and intimidating the citizens who were at the public meeting in a public building. Hutchens is violating the Brown Open Meeting Act and the California Public Records Act by hijacking these videos to cover up the evidence ot the civil rights violations by her deputies.

aileron
02-05-2009, 7:42 AM
Hutchens is violating the Brown Open Meeting Act and the California Public Records Act by hijacking these videos to cover up the evidence ot the civil rights violations by her deputies.

Or waiting to destroy the tapes so they can say there is nothing to see here.

allow non-disruptive recording and broadcast of meetings, (§ 54953.5(a)), and let the public inspect any recording made by the agency of its open meetings. (§ 54953.5(b)) The agency may destroy recordings it made after 30 days. (§ 54953.5(b))

Of course which agency is allowed to destroy them, I would figure that is the BOS not the sheriff. So this could get pretty sticky the longer she holds it.

tango-52
02-05-2009, 8:11 AM
Or waiting to destroy the tapes so they can say there is nothing to see here. Of course which agency is allowed to destroy them, I would figure that is the BOS not the sheriff. So this could get pretty sticky the longer she holds it.

OCCCWS has already admonished the Sheriff to ensure the security of the recordings, pending further (legal) action.

OCCCWS
02-05-2009, 8:28 AM
The footage from the cameras is recorded digitally onto a server OWNED by the County, located IN the Hall of Administration. That is the turf of the BOS.

The Sheriff is on non-existent legal ground here, including in ways which we can't reveal yet.

GuyW
02-05-2009, 9:12 AM
Perhaps the supervisors will realize it's high time to convert the OCSD/OCPD retirement plans to defined-contribution (401K/403b).

Keep 'em occupied! That undersheriff & his minions will be fighting mortal combat to keep their retire-at-mid-50s+ inflation indexed gold plated pension.

I know Moorlach has wondered about sustainability of rich county pensions, and I'd bet this drama with Norby & Nguyen just put another coupla votes into the fold...

There is no "sustainability", unless the definition of same is "farming the taxpayer like a vampire would". One of the few bright sides to this economy is the opportunity to make all government pay and pensions commensurate with the private sector...
.

DDT
02-05-2009, 10:15 AM
There is no "sustainability", unless the definition of same is "farming the taxpayer like a vampire". One of the few bright sides to this economy is the opportunity to make all government pay and pensions commensurate with the private sector...
.

Actually they've been trying to just shove it upstream and letting the Feds bailout the pensions. That way there are more people to spread out to less so the local folks won't oust the idiots who are "farming the taxpayer live a vampire."

I wonder if the BoS could just change the pension plan of the Administrative staff? Are the sheriff, under sheriffs and assistant sheriffs members of the union?

SteveH
02-05-2009, 10:24 AM
Perhaps the supervisors will realize it's high time to convert the OCSD/OCPD retirement plans to defined-contribution (401K/403b).

Keep 'em occupied! That undersheriff & his minions will be fighting mortal combat to keep their retire-at-mid-50s+ inflation indexed gold plated pension.

I know Moorlach has wondered about sustainability of rich county pensions, and I'd bet this drama with Norby & Nguyen just put another coupla votes into the fold...

Moorlach gets a fat county pension for his part time job. I'll be surprised if he tries to do anything with county pensions.

SteveH
02-05-2009, 10:27 AM
I wonder if the BoS could just change the pension plan of the Administrative staff? Are the sheriff, under sheriffs and assistant sheriffs members of the union?

AOCDS? No. Nobody above the rank of Sgt is in that union.

SteveH
02-05-2009, 10:32 AM
Oh boy this is getting good!


Yep. Will be very interesting to see how this plays out. BOS may contract for security with another agency of even a private company. Wonder if the Sheriff will retaliate by refusing to provide BOS security away from the office? I imagine the Deputies would be happy to no longer have to provide dignitary protection to the BOS.

IAmASensFan
02-05-2009, 12:51 PM
Yep. Will be very interesting to see how this plays out. BOS may contract for security with another agency of even a private company. Wonder if the Sheriff will retaliate by refusing to provide BOS security away from the office? I imagine the Deputies would be happy to no longer have to provide dignitary protection to the BOS.

The Sheriff's office isn't the only group capable of providing EP for the BOS. Maybe it's time that they were made to realize that.

GuyW
02-05-2009, 1:32 PM
I wonder if the BoS could just change the pension plan of the Administrative staff? Are the sheriff, under sheriffs and assistant sheriffs members of the union?

Nope, above a certain level almost all government employees fall out of the employee bargaining units (management is the enemy, donja know?)
.

GuyW
02-05-2009, 1:32 PM
The Sheriff's office isn't the only group capable of providing EP for the BOS. Maybe it's time that they were made to realize that.

Privatize it - hire an armed services company....
.

SgtDinosaur
02-05-2009, 1:54 PM
I heard Blackwater might be looking for a new contract.

N6ATF
02-05-2009, 3:11 PM
I tried....LOL

Nice, I was more thinking a video game animation spoof like

ZNqeo-un9ho

with quotes from the lawless lawmen but that's a good example screenshot.

SteveH
02-05-2009, 3:40 PM
The Sheriff's office isn't the only group capable of providing EP for the BOS. Maybe it's time that they were made to realize that.

I suspect the cops would be thrilled to no longer have to accompany the BOS on their outings.

rynando
02-05-2009, 4:08 PM
... or death (car accident, struck by lightning, etc.).

You should add "falling houses" to that list.

http://endofbench.files.wordpress.com/2007/04/feetpopping.jpg

sholling
02-05-2009, 10:46 PM
Lots of fun things can be done. Starting with a court order to turn over the tapes. She'd erase them but that's likely to tick off the judge. It's also possible to reduce the sheriffs department budget by say 10%.

Cypren
02-05-2009, 10:52 PM
I was told tonight by someone who was interested in bidding on this contract that the decision has been made to award it to Santa Ana PD, just as the OC Register hinted at the other day. There will not be an open bidding process or anything of the kind.

Which basically means we've traded out security run by one anti-2A CLEO for another. I'm not sure I'd expect things to be a lot better... just less overt. But hey, I'm always a pessimist when it comes to government.

RomanDad
02-06-2009, 9:13 AM
I was told tonight by someone who was interested in bidding on this contract that the decision has been made to award it to Santa Ana PD, just as the OC Register hinted at the other day. There will not be an open bidding process or anything of the kind.

Which basically means we've traded out security run by one anti-2A CLEO for another. I'm not sure I'd expect things to be a lot better... just less overt. But hey, I'm always a pessimist when it comes to government.

Relax on walters.... Theres more there than you know.