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CavTrooper
02-03-2009, 7:30 PM
Story clipped from another site:

This past weekend, my best friend and I went to the desert to hunt the yotes one last time before we give them a break till September. We were supposed to have one of our CPC members with us but I'm glad he had to work. Since he couldn't come, we decided to try an area that we had shot yotes in last year at this time. We got to our old area at 0445hrs, got our gear on and headed into the area. When it got light enough to see the ground (around 0615hrs), we started calling. Nothing on the first stand after 20 minutes so we left and hiked around a point and back into a canyon. Did another stand for about 15 minutes and nothing so we decided to leave this area for another about 20 miles away. As we packed up and began our hike back to the vehicles, I hear what sounded like a ricochet just to our left followed by a huge BANG! We both ran for the boulders to our left and took cover. All of a sudden, shots were ringing out every where. I looked at my watch and it was just after 0830hrs. I started yelling at the top of my lungs but it wasn't heard with all the shooting. We tried to move up thru the canyon using the sidewalls and boulders to cover us between shots. There was no way anyone could see us because we were both in total camo from head to toe and even our t-shirts were camo. The only thing I could think of was there was a large group shooting into this area without investigating it to see if anyone had been camping back here. My partner was so scared that he said he was going to stay until it was dark. I said "You're nuts. It's just coming up on 9 AM". I told him to stay behind the boulders and I'd try to get them to stop. I found a large piece of tree branch in the sand wash so I ran to it and got behind the rocks again. I went thru my back pack and found my folded orange safety vest and some rope. I tied it to the branch and between the shooting pauses, managed to get to a high spot without exposing myself. I started waving the branch and vest above my head and in minutes, the shooting stopped. I stood up and looked over the boulders with my bino's to see a line of what looked to be 40-50 people with guns at their sides or on the tables about 500yds away. Then a truck with about 4 people came down the sand wash and met up with me. They were so shocked to see me and then my partner about 100yds down the canyon. He didn't come out till he heard voices. On our way out in the truck, I was talking to this guy (No names or Club names will be given to protect all involved as no one was injured and no one is at fault) who says that they were told by the BLM that this area was open for shooting and didn't expect anyone would be down there since it is an open shoot area. I couldn't believe all the targets and junk that I could now see in the area. My partner and I didn't know this either because we had not been there for a year or so and it was dark when we walked into the area. This club had been shooting there on weekends since the desert got cooler. No wonder there aren't any coyotes in the area! We won't be going back there any more and will not try any areas without scouting them first. Lesson's learned!!!

Damn. I see a few things wrong here. Sounds to me like the target shooters (#1) werent using a backstop, (#2) didnt clear the downrange area before firing (#3) arent cleaning up thier trash after shooting, and (#4) are causing this area to be unusable by anyone else.

Dont be like those target shooters. If you were one of those target shooters, please fix yourselves before you kill somebody.

Thanks.

5150Marcelo
02-03-2009, 7:45 PM
Very good point. Ive been shot at before, couple times intentionally, and once mistakenly. Either way, its not fun, and really not that hard to clear the range and make sure you HAVE a back stop.

rg_1111@yahoo.com
02-03-2009, 7:46 PM
Always take more junk out than you brought in. Always have a back stop. Glad to here your alright.

uxo2
02-03-2009, 7:49 PM
So you have'nt been there in a year..

Your on BLM..

Thier responsibility to clear first....
But your IN CAMO....

And they'er the Idiots ???


Idiots for trashing the area yes...

But what about you...
Surely you have some blame to take..


Why did'nt they see your vehical?
Was it Camo too












Good to see you lived to tells about it.

devildog999
02-03-2009, 7:56 PM
Way too close a call there

Rob454
02-03-2009, 8:22 PM
How do you know that the stuff they were shooting at was brought in by them or jsut left on the land? Not really anyones fault IMO. you were there shooting coyotes and they were there shooting guns. I know everyone thinks they shoudl of seen you but if your attention is on a target youre not gonna notice somethign in cammo moving slowly behind a rock.
Glad youre ok though. its not liek those shooters were really out gunnin gor you or your buddy. I guess i woudl be mad but if you put yourself in their shoes........
Either way just watch way more carefully. Unfortunately you have to watch out for fools and idiots not the other way around

B.D.Dubloon
02-03-2009, 8:46 PM
Very good point. Ive been shot before, couple times intentionally, and once mistakenly. Either way, its not fun, and really not that hard to clear the range and make sure you HAVE a back stop.

Did you mean to say you've been shot at, or that you have been shot? Just wondering, I am soory if you have been shot three times before.

BDD

BroncoBob
02-03-2009, 8:50 PM
It can happen to anyone. I'm just glad fellow CPC members didn't get shot.

sn0rky
02-03-2009, 8:58 PM
So you have'nt been there in a year..

Your on BLM..

Thier responsibility to clear first....
But your IN CAMO....

And they'er the Idiots ???


Good to see you lived to tells about it.

im gonna have to agree with you on this, sorry OP.

5150Marcelo
02-03-2009, 9:01 PM
Did you mean to say you've been shot at, or that you have been shot? Just wondering, I am soory if you have been shot three times before.

BDD

Ooops, sorry. I meant to say Ive een shot at.:thumbsup:

5150Marcelo
02-03-2009, 9:02 PM
im gonna have to agree with you on this, sorry OP.

You guys need to read this a little closer. First thing OP says is "story clipped from another site"

OP was just posting this here for us to read. Calmados!

rayra
02-03-2009, 9:11 PM
...or on the tables about 500yds away.
...they were told by the BLM that this area was open for shooting and didn't expect anyone would be down there since it is an open shoot area.
...I couldn't believe all the targets and junk that I could now see in the area. My partner and I didn't know this either because we had not been there for a year or so and it was dark when we walked into the area. ...


Looks like the OP's rant is completely inverted as to where the blame lay. The OP went blindly traipsing around an established impact area.

CavTrooper
02-03-2009, 9:37 PM
First off gentlemen, this was a story clipped from another site, it wasnt me. Had this been me the story wouldve started with:

"no sh*t, there I was...."

and ended with:

"....my execution is scheduled for the morning."

but thanks for the concern!

Instead of multi-quoting and responding point by point, Ill just lay it out there.

BLM land is there for everyone to use, shooters, hunters, hikers, off roaders... everyone. Replace the 2 hunters in camo with whatever you identify most with, hippies in a drum circle, researchers studying cactus, mall ninjas practicing their mrs fields cookies extraction techniques... whatever. The plain and simple facts are that the target shooters are 100% in the wrong for not using a backstop and not clearing the downrange area, at the least.

BLM is open land, there are no established firing lines, no range fans, no RSOs, its up to the individuals to ensure they are being safe, these idiots obviously failed in that respect. Im amazed that anyone would try to defend or justify the actions of these idiots and makes me wonder what kind of shooters they are.

The trash left behind is just another example of plinkers being totally and completely inconsiderate to everyone else and totally ignorant as to the image they are portraying of shooters everywhere. These types of folks are the part of the reason that public lands are being closed off all over the state.

Its sad that anyone here would condone this sorts of actions, disappointing really.

Dr Rockso
02-03-2009, 9:58 PM
The plain and simple facts are that the target shooters are 100% in the wrong for not using a backstop and not clearing the downrange area, at the least.
+1
Know your target and what's beyond it. I don't see how anyone is defending the plinkers.

jamesob
02-03-2009, 10:13 PM
they are damn lucky number one. number 2 whats the point in being in camoflauge? i don't know why people do that if they are just target shooting.

uxo2
02-03-2009, 10:35 PM
The trash left behind is just another example of plinkers being totally and completely inconsiderate to everyone else and totally ignorant as to the image they are portraying of shooters everywhere. These types of folks are the part of the reason that public lands are being closed off all over the state.

Its sad that anyone here would condone this sorts of actions, disappointing really.

Seeing that this story is hersay....
It is just another STORY and most likely BS...

Nuff said

5150Marcelo
02-03-2009, 10:37 PM
they are damn lucky number one. number 2 whats the point in being in camoflauge? i don't know why people do that if they are just target shooting.

The hunters were in camo... not the shooters.

5150Marcelo
02-03-2009, 10:40 PM
Seeing that this story is hersay....
It is just another STORY and most likely BS...

Nuff said

Being that its safety related and knowing if your area is clear down range and making sure you have a clear back stop, BS or not, people still need to e extra carefull. Next time give your post a little more thought and keep yourself from lookin like this...http://homebuyersadvocate.files.wordpress.com/2008/01/head-up-butt.png?w=364&h=374

Vinz
02-03-2009, 10:45 PM
...and this is just two of the many problems with shooting on BLM/open land. No wonder more land restrictions come up.


Everyone be safe. Be aware of the area you are in. Always shoot with a back stop and always carry a hunters orange garment. Reversible's are great. An emergency whistle would have been helpful in the case.


vinz

daves100
02-03-2009, 10:48 PM
Good reason to carry one of them Air horns for boaters use..

B.D.Dubloon
02-03-2009, 11:06 PM
I need bdu pants. I don't want to admit I got fat and I need the button fly so I can leave the top one undone and my pants don't fall down. I guess I could get other button fly pants, but bdu's are 3-5 bucks in the army (salvation that is ;))

BDD

they are damn lucky number one. number 2 whats the point in being in camoflauge? i don't know why people do that if they are just target shooting.

Deadred7o7
02-03-2009, 11:24 PM
Good reason to carry one of them Air horns for boaters use..


Or a 37mm STZ-Havoc Flare Launcher :D

m98
02-04-2009, 2:14 AM
Or a 37mm STZ-Havoc Flare Launcher :D

37mm flare launchers + kommifornia = legal?

Stormfeather
02-04-2009, 6:08 AM
Well, as many have mentioned, no matter what, safety is always primary. Clear your lane, know whats behind your target, and use a backstop. If hunting, then use the mandatory camouflage and you can be seen. Incidents like this happen alot more often than most folks realize,

Seeing that this story is hersay....
It is just another STORY and most likely BS...

Nuff said

To the one poster who called BS, Try shooting out on BLM land, trust me when I say, you will have something like this happen to you sooner or later. At the last Area 52 Shoot, we had a couple of drunk guys drive right up to our site and attempt to walk out on our firing line, while they was obviously drunk. This was approximately 25-30 miles out in the desert. Crazier things have happened and will continue to happen if folks dont follow the basic safety rules of marksmanship and hunting.

BroncoBob
02-04-2009, 6:18 AM
they are damn lucky number one. number 2 whats the point in being in camoflauge? i don't know why people do that if they are just target shooting.

The guys getting shot at where hunting for coyotes thus the camo.

Nodda Duma
02-04-2009, 7:51 AM
I can't lay 100% of the blame on the group of target shooters. After all, they cleared the area with BLM management, and I assume did a visual scan of the area for signs of activity (can anyone claim to do more than a visual scan of a firing range and checking with range safety officer / BLM management when setting up for a day of shooting?). The coyote hunters could have easily called BLM management themselves to inquire into status of the area. They would have learned then about the canyon's use as a new unsupervised firing range.

I'm also surprised the coyote hunters didn't at least scout the area the day before. Didn't their dads teach them the proper way to hunt? Ie, scout the area ahead of time that you're going to be hunting in. Especially if you're walking in pre-dawn. The signs of the canyon being used as a firing range would have been very obvious if they had. Blindly going into an area in the dark that you haven't been to in over a year is careless. Safety *is* EVERYONE'S responsibility...in this case both the group of shooters *and* the coyote hunters.

As everybody is aware, BLM land is available for use by everyone. One of the big uses is for target practice, and folks should keep that in mind when they go out to an unknown or not-recently-visited part of the desert for whatever reason (dirt biking, hiking, hippie drum-circle dancing, coyote hunting, etc.). This story has good examples of how things could have been done better all around.

-Jason

uxo2
02-04-2009, 11:40 AM
Being that its safety related and knowing if your area is clear down range and making sure you have a clear back stop, BS or not, people still need to e extra carefull. Next time give your post a little more thought and keep yourself from lookin like this...http://homebuyersadvocate.files.wordpress.com/2008/01/head-up-butt.png?w=364&h=374



Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Orange County, Southern Califorrnia
Posts: 4,085


Not even a year and over 4 grand in post...
Not are you a POST WHORE but over OPIONIATED.

Vinz
02-04-2009, 8:43 PM
whore....LOL

;)



but a correct whore.
vinz

PorkLover
02-04-2009, 9:11 PM
glad to hear that no one got hurt......lesson learned for everyone.....

5150Marcelo
02-04-2009, 9:28 PM
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Orange County, Southern Califorrnia
Posts: 4,085


Not even a year and over 4 grand in post...
Not are you a POST WHORE but over OPIONIATED.

http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/nn173/5150Marcelo/STFUnOOb.jpg

:thumbsup:

fusionstar
02-04-2009, 9:32 PM
Does anyone ever read the post before responding to them anymore?

How anyone can blame the hunters is beyond me. They were there hunting in camo, most of us do, on public land, which most of us do. It is your responsibility has a firearms owners to clear the range and have a proper backstop before unleashing lead. A pair of binos or spotting scope goes a long way.

Scenario:
Well you say they were in the middle of the desert, they were in camo and they were hard to see. YOU STILL SHOT THEM, who's wrong?! Every bullet you unleash is a liability.

5150Marcelo
02-04-2009, 9:34 PM
Does anyone ever read the post before responding to them anymore?

How anyone can blame the hunters is beyond me. They were there hunting in camo, most of us do, on public land, which most of us do. It is your responsibility has a firearms owners to clear the range and have a proper backstop before unleashing lead. A pair of binos or spotting scope goes a long way.

Scenario:
Well you say they were in the middle of the desert, they were in camo and they were hard to see. YOU STILL SHOT THEM, who's wrong?! Every bullet you unleash is a liability.

+1
Well said!

GammaRei
02-04-2009, 10:02 PM
Being that its safety related and knowing if your area is clear down range and making sure you have a clear back stop, BS or not, people still need to e extra carefull. Next time give your post a little more thought and keep yourself from lookin like this...http://homebuyersadvocate.files.wordpress.com/2008/01/head-up-butt.png?w=364&h=374

+ 1

- G

IGOTDIRT4U
02-05-2009, 9:10 AM
Story clipped from another site:

This past weekend, my best friend and I went to the desert to hunt the yotes one last time before we give them a break till September. We were supposed to have one of our CPC members with us but I'm glad he had to work. Since he couldn't come, we decided to try an area that we had shot yotes in last year at this time. We got to our old area at 0445hrs, got our gear on and headed into the area. When it got light enough to see the ground (around 0615hrs), we started calling. Nothing on the first stand after 20 minutes so we left and hiked around a point and back into a canyon. Did another stand for about 15 minutes and nothing so we decided to leave this area for another about 20 miles away. As we packed up and began our hike back to the vehicles, I hear what sounded like a ricochet just to our left followed by a huge BANG! We both ran for the boulders to our left and took cover. All of a sudden, shots were ringing out every where. I looked at my watch and it was just after 0830hrs. I started yelling at the top of my lungs but it wasn't heard with all the shooting. We tried to move up thru the canyon using the sidewalls and boulders to cover us between shots. There was no way anyone could see us because we were both in total camo from head to toe and even our t-shirts were camo. The only thing I could think of was there was a large group shooting into this area without investigating it to see if anyone had been camping back here. My partner was so scared that he said he was going to stay until it was dark. I said "You're nuts. It's just coming up on 9 AM". I told him to stay behind the boulders and I'd try to get them to stop. I found a large piece of tree branch in the sand wash so I ran to it and got behind the rocks again. I went thru my back pack and found my folded orange safety vest and some rope. I tied it to the branch and between the shooting pauses, managed to get to a high spot without exposing myself. I started waving the branch and vest above my head and in minutes, the shooting stopped. I stood up and looked over the boulders with my bino's to see a line of what looked to be 40-50 people with guns at their sides or on the tables about 500yds away. Then a truck with about 4 people came down the sand wash and met up with me. They were so shocked to see me and then my partner about 100yds down the canyon. He didn't come out till he heard voices. On our way out in the truck, I was talking to this guy (No names or Club names will be given to protect all involved as no one was injured and no one is at fault) who says that they were told by the BLM that this area was open for shooting and didn't expect anyone would be down there since it is an open shoot area. I couldn't believe all the targets and junk that I could now see in the area. My partner and I didn't know this either because we had not been there for a year or so and it was dark when we walked into the area. This club had been shooting there on weekends since the desert got cooler. No wonder there aren't any coyotes in the area! We won't be going back there any more and will not try any areas without scouting them first. Lesson's learned!!!

Damn. I see a few things wrong here. Sounds to me like the target shooters (#1) werent using a backstop, (#2) didnt clear the downrange area before firing (#3) arent cleaning up thier trash after shooting, and (#4) are causing this area to be unusable by anyone else.

Dont be like those target shooters. If you were one of those target shooters, please fix yourselves before you kill somebody.

Thanks.

They broke several of the "Golden" rules. Glad you made it out safe and were able to point it out to them.

Flintlock Tom
02-05-2009, 1:13 PM
Rule #4:
Know your target and what's beyond it.

Army
02-05-2009, 9:56 PM
The way I read it, the "large rocks" were the backstop in the, at least, year old shooting area (noise was from the left, yet they bailed to rocks on the left....I tend to go AWAY from bullet impacts). The canyon apparently doubled as a safety zone, to contain bullets that would otherwise go unimpeded in a more open area.

Fail on the hunters part for NOT scouting public land for their OWN backstop while hunting. A scout of the day or week before, would have revealed the established shooting area.

fusionstar
02-06-2009, 12:31 AM
Hunting is dynamic. They were in a set position calling. The yotes could come in any direction, how would you know if they had a backstop or not? The plinkers certainly didn't, even if they did.. there backstop has humans on it, thats a big no no..

Whats certain is.. the plinkers didnt see the hunters. Shots rang out towards the hunters. Plinkers fault.

Its like saying I ran over a child at a red light but its not my fault because I didnt see him, he was small.

The instant you have a firearms in your possession you are liable.