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View Full Version : May07, Rahm Emanuel plainly calls for new perm AWB and no guns for anyone on No Fly


rayra
02-02-2009, 9:50 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uJBZZKlvrP4&eurl=http://www.gunsnet.net/forums/showthread.php?t=352420

Speaking to the Brady Bunch. Pay no heed that the No Fly is massively broken, growing at a huge rate, and once you are on it for whatever reason it's next to impossible to get off it.
Lastly, not the stats, the LIES that he spouts. Mark them well.

These are the people that now hold ALL the government offices required to pass and enact this legislation.

And the '94 ban was passed, signed into law and took effect all on the same day. They have the party votes to pass anything. If this Commerce Sec't scheme works out, there won't even be a chance to delay any legislation for sufficient time for the People to take notice and protest. Pelosi and Reid will gavel it right on thru on a voice vote and Obama will sign and we'll wake up in the morning to a fait accompli.

SwissFluCase
02-02-2009, 10:05 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uJBZZKlvrP4&eurl=http://www.gunsnet.net/forums/showthread.php?t=352420

Speaking to the Brady Bunch. Pay no heed that the No Fly is massively broken, growing at a huge rate, and once you are on it for whatever reason it's next to impossible to get off it.
Lastly, not the stats, the LIES that he spouts. Mark them well.

These are the people that now hold ALL the government offices required to pass and enact this legislation.

And the '94 ban was passed, signed into law and took effect all on the same day. They have the party votes to pass anything. If this Commerce Sec't scheme works out, there won't even be a chance to delay any legislation for sufficient time for the People to take notice and protest. Pelosi and Reid will gavel it right on thru on a voice vote and Obama will sign and we'll wake up in the morning to a fait accompli.

You have seen our enemy, but we must stay strong. We can win, but first we must march through the valley of fragrant BS, knowing that we are the spankers of a naughty congress - and can do it again.

Don't let the bastards get you down. We can win this one.

Regards,


SwissFluCase

yellowfin
02-02-2009, 10:07 PM
You have seen our enemy, but we must stay strong. We can win, but first we must march through the valley of fragrant BS, knowing that we are the spankers of a naughty congress - and can do it again.Uhm, isn't that a little too much like "If you kill me, I'll kick your *** " ?

.454
02-02-2009, 10:30 PM
We've Been Warned. We Didn't Listen (http://transsylvaniaphoenix.blogspot.com/2009/02/weve-been-warned-we-didnt-listen.html)

Recognize the character?

uJBZZKlvrP4

SwissFluCase
02-02-2009, 10:44 PM
Uhm, isn't that a little too much like "If you kill me, I'll kick your *** " ?

I would say more like "rember the 1994 elections dems - your party motto is about to become 'No We Can't'".

Do they really want to sacrifice their whole platform on this issue? We need to make it clear that we will follow through.

Regards,


SwissFluCase

hoffmang
02-02-2009, 11:33 PM
It's cute that you bring up the bulter's opinion as if its the master's opinion.

One person who understands the stakes hired the moron who is the hired help. If the hired help steals the china, where does that leave the employer? Collecting unemployment?

-Gene

spitkiss
02-02-2009, 11:52 PM
This video is from May 2007 before Heller was decided. Even Eric Holder has stated that will limit what they can do. I'm sure they'll come up with something though

SwissFluCase
02-03-2009, 12:20 AM
At the risk of sounding a bit exasperated, I have to ask...

Are we going to roll over and accept a beating the moment one of these appointed bozos calls for a ban or drafts some law? I mean *really*. I have heard people literally resign themselves to a life of gun control before the fight has even started. Are people *really* going to give up that easy, when we are on high ground and have the advantage?

I have been involved in this since the bad old 1980's, and it is nowhere near as bad now. Your ordinary American has woken up and smelled the turds and they want their guns. Even the people that voted for Obama want their guns. I even know quite a few people who support the 2A and are NRA members - and they really have no interest in guns or shooting at all! This is a good thing for us. The 2A has come full circle from a hunting privilege, to a civil right again. Now all we have to do is stand up and claim our rights.

Regards,


SwissFluCase

dreyna14
02-03-2009, 12:28 AM
At the risk of sounding a bit exasperated, I have to ask...

Are we going to roll over and accept a beating the moment one of these appointed bozos calls for a ban or drafts some law? I mean *really*. I have heard people literally resign themselves to a life of gun control before the fight has even started. Are people *really* going to give up that easy, when we are on high ground and have the advantage?

I have been involved in this since the bad old 1980's, and it is nowhere near as bad now. Your ordinary American has woken up and smelled the turds and they want their guns. Even the people that voted for Obama want their guns. I even know quite a few people who support the 2A and are NRA members - and they really have no interest in guns or shooting at all! This is a good thing for us. The 2A has come full circle from a hunting privilege, to a civil right again. Now all we have to do is stand up and claim our rights.

Regards,


SwissFluCase

That's all great, but it's not the people who write and vote on these worthless pieces of legislation. They do whatever they want and give the rest of the country the finger. They think they know what's better for you than your do.

SteveH
02-03-2009, 1:10 AM
Sounds like there are some Obama supporters here.

Tarn_Helm
02-03-2009, 5:59 AM
Sounds like there are some Obama supporters here.

I am not an Obama supporter because what I believe about Obama's views on my right to bear arms is based on what he has said and on how he has voted for years.

Obama has established a pattern of behavior in much the same way a "criminal" establishes a pattern of criminality that changes his status from one-time offender to REPEAT OFFENDER.

My understanding is based not on the lies which he recently and opportunistically told but on the position he has held for YEARS, which anyone can verify by clicking here (http://www.nraila.org/media/PDFs/2008Obamafactsht.pdf).

Obama opposes my right to keep and bear arms, so I absolutely oppose his exercise of political power.

Here is a partial list of Barack Hussein Obama’s Efforts at Infringement of your Civil Rights (http://www.nraila.org/media/PDFs/2008Obamafactsht.pdf)

Barack Obama opposes four of the five Supreme Court justices who affirmed an individual right to keep and bear arms. He voted against the confirmation of Alito and Roberts and he has stated he would not have appointed Thomas or
Scalia.17

Barack Obama voted for an Illinois State Senate bill to ban and confiscate “assault weapons,” but the bill was so poorly crafted, it would have also banned most semi-auto and single and double barrel shotguns commonly used by sportsmen.18

Barack Obama voted to allow reckless lawsuits designed to bankrupt the firearms industry.1

Barack Obama has called for a 500% increase in the federal excise tax on firearms and ammunition.9

Barack Obama wants to re-impose the failed and discredited Clinton Gun Ban on commonly owned semi-automatic firearms.15

Barack Obama voted to ban almost all rifle ammunition commonly used for hunting and sport shooting.3

Barack Obama has endorsed a complete ban on handgun ownership.2

Barack Obama supports local gun bans in Chicago, Washington, D.C., and other cities.4

Barack Obama voted to uphold local gun bans and the criminal prosecution of people who use firearms in self-defense.5

Barack Obama supports gun owner licensing and gun registration.6

Barack Obama refused to sign a friend-of-the-court brief in support of individual Second Amendment rights in the Heller case.

Barack Obama opposes Right to Carry laws and interstate reciprocity.7

Barack Obama was a member of the Board of Directors of the Joyce Foundation, the leading source of funds for anti-gun organizations and “research.”8

Barack Obama supported a proposal to ban gun stores within 5 miles of any school or park, which would eliminate almost every gun store in America.9

Barack Obama voted not to notify gun owners when the state of Illinois did records searches on them.10

Barack Obama voted against a measure to lower the Firearms Owners Identification card age minimum from 21 to 18, a measure designed to assist young people in the military.11

Barack Obama favors a ban on standard capacity magazines.12

Barack Obama supports mandatory micro-stamping.13

Barack Obama supports mandatory waiting periods.2

Barack Obama supports repeal of the Tiahrt Amendment, which prohibits information on gun traces collected by the BATFE from being used in reckless lawsuits against firearm dealers and manufacturers.14

Barack Obama supports one-gun-a-month handgun purchase restrictions.16

Barack Obama supports a ban on affordable handguns.9

Barack Obama supports a ban on the resale of police issued firearms, even if the money is going to police departments for replacement equipment.9

Barack Obama supports mandatory firearm training requirements for all gun owners and a ban on gun ownership for persons under the age of 21.9

1. United States Senate, S. 397, vote number 219, July 29, 2005. (http://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_lists/roll_call_vote_cfm.cfm?congress=109&session=1&vote=00219)

2. Independent Voters of Illinois/Independent Precinct Organization general candidate questionnaire, Sept. 9, 1996. The responses on this survey were described in “Obama had greater role on liberal survey,” Politico, March 31, 2008. (http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0308/9269.html)

3. United States Senate, S. 397, vote number 217, Kennedy amendment July 29, 2005. (http://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_lists/roll_call_vote_cfm.cfm?congress=109&session=1&vote=00217)

4. David Wright, Ursula Fahy and Sunlen Miller, “Obama: ‘Common Sense Regulation’ On Gun Owners’ Rights,” ABC News’ “Political Radar” Blog, http://blogs.abcnews.com, 2/15/08. (http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalradar/2008/02/obama-common-se.html)

5. Illinois Senate, SB 2165, March 25, 2004, vote 20 and May 25, 2004, vote 3.

6. “Fact Check: No News In Obama’s Consistent Record.” Obama ’08, December 11, 2007. (http://www.barackobama.com/factcheck/2007/12/11/fact_check_no_news_in_obamas_c.php)

7. “Candidates’ gun control positions may figure in Pa. vote,” Pittsburgh Tribune-Review, Wednesday, April 2, 2008, and “Keyes, Obama Are Far Apart On Guns,” Chicago Tribune, 9/15/04. (http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/news/s_560181.html)

8. 1998 Joyce Foundation Annual Report, p. 7. (http://www.joycefdn.org/pdf/98_AnnualReport.pdf)

9. “Obama and Gun Control,” The Volokh Conspiracy, taken from the Chicago Defender, Dec. 13, 1999. (http://www.volokh.com/posts/1203389334.shtml)

10. Illinois Senate, May 5, 2002, SB 1936 Con., vote 26.

11. Illinois Senate, March 25, 2003, SB 2163, vote 18.

12. “Clinton, Edwards, Obama on gun control,” Radio Iowa, Sunday, April 22, 2007. (http://learfield.typepad.com/radioiowa/2007/04/clinton_edwards.html)

13. Chicago Tribune blogs, “Barack Obama: NIU Shootings call for action,” February 15, 2008, (http://blogs.trb.com/news/politics/blog/2008/02/barack_obama_comments_on_shoot.html)

14. Barack Obama campaign website: “As president, Barack Obama would repeal the Tiahrt Amendment . . .” (http://www.barackobama.com/issues/urbanpolicy/#crime-and-lawenforcement.)

15. Illinois Senate Debate #3: Barack Obama vs. Alan Keyes (http://www.ontheissues.org/2008/Barack_Obama_Gun_Control.htm and http://www.ontheissues.org/IL_2004_Senate_3rd.htm) Oct 21, 2004.

16. Illinois Senate, May 16, 2003, HB 2579, vote 34.

17. United States Senate vote 245, September 29, 2005 and vote 2, January 31, 2006 and Saddleback Forum, August 16, 2008.

18. Illinois Senate Judiciary Committee, March 13, 2003. To see the vote tally go to: http://www.nrapvf.org/Media/pdf/sb1195_obama.pdf.

For more information go to: www.nraila.org/obama

:rant:

OrovilleTim
02-03-2009, 6:32 AM
I cringe every time I see "they'll never do it, they'll remember the backlash last time". I personally think that is Bovine Splatter. The way "we" see things and "they" see things are definitely different. We say "oh, we showed them way back then", but outside of the pro-gun circles, how often do you hear that the shift of seats so many look back at as the gun owners "showing them" was really backlash for the AWB? I was working on a degree in night school with a heavy helping of political science and never heard a single reference to the shift of seats as being related to guns. Actually, I've never heard that inference until I came to this board, most often preceeded by an "oh, don't worry". Well, I think we do have good cause to be worried... very good cause. There aren't just random snippets floating around, there is a wealth of information of these people's positions and willingness to enact them at whatever the cost.

.454
02-03-2009, 6:54 AM
I am not an Obama supporter because what I believe about Obama's views on my right to bear arms is based on what he has said and on how he has voted for years.

Obama has established a pattern of behavior in much the same way a "criminal" establishes a pattern of criminality that changes his status from one-time offender to REPEAT OFFENDER.

My understanding is based not on the lies which he recently and opportunistically told but on the position he has held for YEARS, which anyone can verify by clicking here (http://www.nraila.org/media/PDFs/2008Obamafactsht.pdf).

Obama opposes my right to keep and bear arms, so I absolutely oppose his exercise of political power.

Here is a partial list of Barack Hussein Obama’s Efforts at Infringement of your Civil Rights (http://www.nraila.org/media/PDFs/2008Obamafactsht.pdf)

Barack Obama opposes four of the five Supreme Court justices who affirmed an individual right to keep and bear arms. He voted against the confirmation of Alito and Roberts and he has stated he would not have appointed Thomas or
Scalia.17

Barack Obama voted for an Illinois State Senate bill to ban and confiscate “assault weapons,” but the bill was so poorly crafted, it would have also banned most semi-auto and single and double barrel shotguns commonly used by sportsmen.18

Barack Obama voted to allow reckless lawsuits designed to bankrupt the firearms industry.1

Barack Obama has called for a 500% increase in the federal excise tax on firearms and ammunition.9

Barack Obama wants to re-impose the failed and discredited Clinton Gun Ban on commonly owned semi-automatic firearms.15

Barack Obama voted to ban almost all rifle ammunition commonly used for hunting and sport shooting.3

Barack Obama has endorsed a complete ban on handgun ownership.2

Barack Obama supports local gun bans in Chicago, Washington, D.C., and other cities.4

Barack Obama voted to uphold local gun bans and the criminal prosecution of people who use firearms in self-defense.5

Barack Obama supports gun owner licensing and gun registration.6

Barack Obama refused to sign a friend-of-the-court brief in support of individual Second Amendment rights in the Heller case.

Barack Obama opposes Right to Carry laws and interstate reciprocity.7

Barack Obama was a member of the Board of Directors of the Joyce Foundation, the leading source of funds for anti-gun organizations and “research.”8

Barack Obama supported a proposal to ban gun stores within 5 miles of any school or park, which would eliminate almost every gun store in America.9

Barack Obama voted not to notify gun owners when the state of Illinois did records searches on them.10

Barack Obama voted against a measure to lower the Firearms Owners Identification card age minimum from 21 to 18, a measure designed to assist young people in the military.11

Barack Obama favors a ban on standard capacity magazines.12

Barack Obama supports mandatory micro-stamping.13

Barack Obama supports mandatory waiting periods.2

Barack Obama supports repeal of the Tiahrt Amendment, which prohibits information on gun traces collected by the BATFE from being used in reckless lawsuits against firearm dealers and manufacturers.14

Barack Obama supports one-gun-a-month handgun purchase restrictions.16

Barack Obama supports a ban on affordable handguns.9

Barack Obama supports a ban on the resale of police issued firearms, even if the money is going to police departments for replacement equipment.9

Barack Obama supports mandatory firearm training requirements for all gun owners and a ban on gun ownership for persons under the age of 21.9

1. United States Senate, S. 397, vote number 219, July 29, 2005. (http://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_lists/roll_call_vote_cfm.cfm?congress=109&session=1&vote=00219)

2. Independent Voters of Illinois/Independent Precinct Organization general candidate questionnaire, Sept. 9, 1996. The responses on this survey were described in “Obama had greater role on liberal survey,” Politico, March 31, 2008. (http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0308/9269.html)

3. United States Senate, S. 397, vote number 217, Kennedy amendment July 29, 2005. (http://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_lists/roll_call_vote_cfm.cfm?congress=109&session=1&vote=00217)

4. David Wright, Ursula Fahy and Sunlen Miller, “Obama: ‘Common Sense Regulation’ On Gun Owners’ Rights,” ABC News’ “Political Radar” Blog, http://blogs.abcnews.com, 2/15/08. (http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalradar/2008/02/obama-common-se.html)

5. Illinois Senate, SB 2165, March 25, 2004, vote 20 and May 25, 2004, vote 3.

6. “Fact Check: No News In Obama’s Consistent Record.” Obama ’08, December 11, 2007. (http://www.barackobama.com/factcheck/2007/12/11/fact_check_no_news_in_obamas_c.php)

7. “Candidates’ gun control positions may figure in Pa. vote,” Pittsburgh Tribune-Review, Wednesday, April 2, 2008, and “Keyes, Obama Are Far Apart On Guns,” Chicago Tribune, 9/15/04. (http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/news/s_560181.html)

8. 1998 Joyce Foundation Annual Report, p. 7. (http://www.joycefdn.org/pdf/98_AnnualReport.pdf)

9. “Obama and Gun Control,” The Volokh Conspiracy, taken from the Chicago Defender, Dec. 13, 1999. (http://www.volokh.com/posts/1203389334.shtml)

10. Illinois Senate, May 5, 2002, SB 1936 Con., vote 26.

11. Illinois Senate, March 25, 2003, SB 2163, vote 18.

12. “Clinton, Edwards, Obama on gun control,” Radio Iowa, Sunday, April 22, 2007. (http://learfield.typepad.com/radioiowa/2007/04/clinton_edwards.html)

13. Chicago Tribune blogs, “Barack Obama: NIU Shootings call for action,” February 15, 2008, (http://blogs.trb.com/news/politics/blog/2008/02/barack_obama_comments_on_shoot.html)

14. Barack Obama campaign website: “As president, Barack Obama would repeal the Tiahrt Amendment . . .” (http://www.barackobama.com/issues/urbanpolicy/#crime-and-lawenforcement.)

15. Illinois Senate Debate #3: Barack Obama vs. Alan Keyes (http://www.ontheissues.org/2008/Barack_Obama_Gun_Control.htm and http://www.ontheissues.org/IL_2004_Senate_3rd.htm) Oct 21, 2004.

16. Illinois Senate, May 16, 2003, HB 2579, vote 34.

17. United States Senate vote 245, September 29, 2005 and vote 2, January 31, 2006 and Saddleback Forum, August 16, 2008.

18. Illinois Senate Judiciary Committee, March 13, 2003. To see the vote tally go to: http://www.nrapvf.org/Media/pdf/sb1195_obama.pdf.

For more information go to: www.nraila.org/obama

:rant:


+1

Years of "anti" voting records Vs. weeks of post-Heller electoral promises.

Which one do you believe?

AEC1
02-03-2009, 6:57 AM
Never ever assume that the enemy has a memory or common sense. These are the same pot smoking liberals around since the 60's

I was taught that smoking pot killed your short term memory and attention span...

SwissFluCase
02-03-2009, 8:50 AM
So, you are all of you going to give up? I'm not.

I am far more worried about the gun owners who won't take action because they have given up than by anything the Obama administration could ever do.


Regards,


SwissFluCase

bulgron
02-03-2009, 9:23 AM
That no-fly list scares the beejeezus out of me, and not just because of what the smarmy dork in the video wants to do with it. It represents an infringement on all our rights (not just the 2A) without any judicial oversight whatsoever. You can't sue if you get on it, you can't go to trial and show that you don't belong on it, you can't do squat. You can't even find out why you're on it or who put you there. It's pure authoritarianism, and the chuckle-head in the video is all ga-ga over the idea of using it to forward his own personal agenda.

If anyone doesn't think that the gun control fight is the tip of the spear for American freedoms in this country, they need to go watch that video and then start researching the no-fly list.

What's to stop Holder from arbitrarily deciding that you don't pass your federal background check for a firearm purchase if you're on the no-fly list. Anyone know the answer to that?

What's to stop whoever controls the no-fly list from taking the entire NRA membership roster and putting everyone there on it? I know the answer to that: nothing.

Ten Rounder
02-03-2009, 9:53 AM
Would they take away my pilots license too? Who needs to crawl into a germ tube when we have an EOTWAWKI situation?

FUSIBLE
02-03-2009, 10:24 AM
Sounds like the discriminating Nuremberg laws to me.

CHS
02-03-2009, 10:40 AM
That no-fly list scares the beejeezus out of me, and not just because of what the smarmy dork in the video wants to do with it. It represents an infringement on all our rights (not just the 2A) without any judicial oversight whatsoever. You can't sue if you get on it, you can't go to trial and show that you don't belong on it, you can't do squat. You can't even find out why you're on it or who put you there. It's pure authoritarianism, and the chuckle-head in the video is all ga-ga over the idea of using it to forward his own personal agenda.


Bruce Schnier said it best: These are people who are so dangerous we can't allow them to fly, but so innocent that they can't be arrested.

DDT
02-03-2009, 2:03 PM
Despite having worked for RSA and VeriSign I still like Bruce.

rayra
02-03-2009, 9:03 PM
It's cute that you bring up the bulter's opinion as if its the master's opinion.

One person who understands the stakes hired the moron who is the hired help. If the hired help steals the china, where does that leave the employer? Collecting unemployment?

-Gene
Im getting tired of the default dissembling for Democrats by our trumpted RKBA lawyers around here.

Your facetiousness does NOTHING to offset the litany of anti-gun / confiscatory comments and intents that Obama himslf has made over the last three years.
Yet you and bwiese continue to post and pretend that there is no cause for concern and that anything pointing out the Pink Donkey in the middle of the room is inflammatory / false.

You make it quite plain that the only response worth making to such obfuscatory lawyerly nonsense is to simply cut and past the laundry list of Obama's own direct anti-gun(rights) statements and legislation and video clips, along with all this other 'butlers' remarks and edicts, to quash your incessant pretext that the Democrat Party is not the home, shield and platform of the anti-gun Left.

rayra
02-03-2009, 9:07 PM
ah, I see Tarn_Helm already included such a list in post #12 -

and Tarn, you need to include a line item / link to Obama's ONLY piece of significant proposed legislation as an absentee Senator - the Global Poverty Act - which besides promising to give away a HUGE portion of our tax money to third worlders, also included a directive supporting and espousing the UN's Millenial Goals plan - which had amongst its goals the complete disarmament of private citizens.

But hey, Hoffman wants to pretend that Obama is not anti-gun thru and thru.

trashman
02-03-2009, 9:25 PM
Yet you and bwiese continue to post and pretend that there is no cause for concern and that anything pointing out the Pink Donkey in the middle of the room is inflammatory / false.


Gently stated, as usual ;)

But I just gotta wonder where you're gonna do more good: preachin' to the choir here, or trying to bring folks who are center-Left into our fold. It's just not that hard! To wit:

-Shooting is fun. Period.

-the RKBA has a beautiful logical symmetry to it. One that appeals to computer geeks, nerds, over-educated pointy-heads, and other Lefty folks who share a contrarian view of the world (hint...something valued by conservatives). They are natural lovers of gun rights; they just have to be shown the way.

You've got every reason to be suspicious of congressional Democrats. But it's a little disconcerting to hear you shouting from the sidelines "YOU ARE DOING IT WRONG!" to Bill and Gene when they have provided solid results on RKBA in California.

--Neill

hoffmang
02-03-2009, 9:32 PM
And I'll say it again.

I am not a lawyer nor a democrat.

-Gene

Librarian
02-03-2009, 10:36 PM
So, I'm convinced; among his many other faults, President Obama's record is anything but favorable to RKBA, and his actions in hiring Emanuel and placing Holder as AG show no indication of that changing.

So, what's the action item?

Given

an anti-gun President
an anti-gun Vice-President
an anti-gun Chief of Staff to the President
an anti-gun Attorney General
anti-gun leadership of the majority party in both House and Senate
what is one supposed to do to affect the course of legislation?

(I really am convinced, BTW. I saw nothing in Tarn Helm's list that surprised me.)

hoffmang
02-03-2009, 11:03 PM
(I really am convinced, BTW. I saw nothing in Tarn Helm's list that surprised me.)

Ditto BTW. As soon as I found out Obama was on the Joyce Foundation board I knew what I needed to know. However, the NRA has gotten its nickname inside the Democratic party for a reason - Never Re-elected Again.

-Gene

oscarred
02-04-2009, 2:18 AM
Wasn't just a couple of weeks or so ago senior members di not believe a national ban was in the works?

Librarian
02-04-2009, 11:01 AM
There's a difference between 'the table is set' and 'dinner is served'.

Pick HR 45. This is the second time it's been introduced, and last time it failed. It has no co-sponsors. It did not come from Feinstein or Kerry or Schumer or Kennedy -- it doesn't appear to be the vehicle the leadership would choose.

All that means is 'actual movement toward Bad Things is not yet happening publicly'. If we don't see it, we can only suspect it's there.

And I'm pretty sure they're waiting to finish looting the country before they come back to the bitter clingers.

Gator Monroe
02-04-2009, 11:09 AM
And I'll say it again.

I am not a lawyer nor a democrat.

-Gene

That means it's no problem for you to Vote GOP in State & National elections (especially if most if not all the Dems in your area or on ballot are ardant Anti's) and the GOP candidates are high rated PRO 2A folks ?

DDT
02-04-2009, 11:13 AM
Wasn't just a couple of weeks or so ago senior members di not believe a national ban was in the works?

No. None of the senior members to my recollection said there wasn't a ban in the works. I believe they said one would never get past the Senate due to the blue dogs. I don't know if I agree but they NEVER stated that Obama would actually live up to his pre-election promise to leave our guns alone.

SwissFluCase
02-04-2009, 12:28 PM
No. None of the senior members to my recollection said there wasn't a ban in the works. I believe they said one would never get past the Senate due to the blue dogs. I don't know if I agree but they NEVER stated that Obama would actually live up to his pre-election promise to leave our guns alone.

Bingo. There is a difference between a bill that is pushed, and one that is signed into law.

That difference is us. There *will* be a fight. We *don't* have to let them win.

I think they will give up if they encounter enough resistance on the issue. If.

Regards,


SwissFluCase

yellowfin
02-04-2009, 12:46 PM
And that resistance would be in the form of....?

DDT
02-04-2009, 12:49 PM
And that resistance would be in the form of....?

Excellent question. We will have to be vigilant and ensure that the resistance is appropriate to the assault on our rights. A confiscatory law will receive different response than a ban on .50 BMG for example.

We all give money to the NRA or other groups to be our watchdogs and to help us all coordinate an effective response rather than having a bunch of yahoos go off independently looking like "gun nuts."

yellowfin
02-04-2009, 1:08 PM
I would say more like "rember the 1994 elections dems - your party motto is about to become 'No We Can't'".

Do they really want to sacrifice their whole platform on this issue? We need to make it clear that we will follow through.
I think you missed my point. What I'm saying is that anything to that effect is after the fact and does not undo the damage by itself. If they pass a law it's VERY slow to undo, and with the immersion in crap we see in DC, it might do damage long enough to be far more difficult to reverse than merely reintroducing what is taken away. Consider the cultural damage here in the PRK. Are we dealing with *just* the problem of having carry rights removed and types of firearms impeded or subtracted from a list and some rounds blocked from the mags? Hardly! We have the infrastructure problems as well: fewer and more distant stores and ranges, scaled back advertising presence, outpaced by growth of non firearm activity, societal isolation and partial alienation, ideological entrenchment of the opposition, and a public mentality used to being screwed out of firearms rights to the point of little or no recognition or attachment to freedom. This cannot be quickly undone by repealing the laws, and it's a heck of a lot easier to get that done in a state than in Congress. The damage even if temporary costs us a lot more than it does them.

Merely kicking them out of office after they put the laws in place with no further consequence to them is weak at best in countering the whole problem. Also you can only threaten with "maybe" or "we'll try" as a counter to "we can right now" and "we're halfway there."

Cypren
02-04-2009, 1:30 PM
Merely kicking them out of office after they put the laws in place with no further consequence to them is weak at best in countering the whole problem.

Another good example of this is NFA items. They've been effectively banned from public hands for so long now that even many 2A activists aren't agitating for their deregulation -- culturally, the gun-grabbers won this round by simply holding the line long enough that they can now use the circular argument (e.g. in Heller) that the NFA is legitimate because these items aren't common in civilian hands. Changing the status quo is very difficult once it's been in place long enough.

SwissFluCase
02-04-2009, 1:33 PM
And that resistance would be in the form of....?

Letters.
Donations.
Phone calls.
Getting gun owners out to vote.
Voting.
Writing Pro 2A articles and finding ways to publish them.
Posting relevant information on your blog (if applicable).
Passing out handbills.
Discussing the issue with friends, family, neighbors.
More donations.
Getting fellow gun owners to join the NRA (stand up and be counted).
Crash anti-gun rallies (are there any anymore?).
Teach new people how to shoot.
And more...

Did I miss anything? None of it is too hard.

Regards,


SwissFluCase

Gator Monroe
02-04-2009, 1:39 PM
NOT voting for an Ardant Dem Anti- in your area for State Assembly or Senate !

SwissFluCase
02-04-2009, 1:41 PM
We have the infrastructure problems as well: fewer and more distant stores and ranges, scaled back advertising presence, outpaced by growth of non firearm activity...

The AOPA seems to have a good model for solving this problem. They are very aggressive about halting airport closures. They don't always win, but they win most of the time. Developers love eating shooting ranges and airports. Something to look into. I have noticed the AOPA has learned much from the NRA regarding lobbying tactics, and they are effective. We can learn from them.

Also, a threat that we can make good on is a convincing argument. We made good on our threat in 1994, and they know it. We need to remind them that we can and will do it again. If we don't, they will assume we don't care anymore, and then they *will* do whatever they want.

Regards,


SwissFLuCase

SwissFluCase
02-04-2009, 1:42 PM
NOT voting for an Ardant Dem Anti- in your area for State Assembly or Senate !

Or a Republican Anti...

Regards,


SwissFluCase

yellowfin
02-04-2009, 1:43 PM
I suppose I forgot to qualify that question: something of a form that moves as quickly and with equal magnitude of the force of the threat. Right now we've got the answer as to "How to stop a charging bear from killing you" in the form of "Figure out where its primary food source is and keep it from eating too much of it to where it grows big enough to kill you 4 or 5 years down the road." Meanwhile there's one 20 feet from your face and hungry now.

They recovered from '94 and are back running the place. We need better than that.

Gator Monroe
02-04-2009, 1:47 PM
Or a Republican Anti...

Regards,


SwissFluCase

Which are easier to find in reguards to Dem Anti candidates and GOP Anti-Candidates (Especially in your district ?)

SwissFluCase
02-04-2009, 2:01 PM
I suppose I forgot to qualify that question: something of a form that moves as quickly and with equal magnitude of the force of the threat. Right now we've got the answer as to "How to stop a charging bear from killing you" in the form of "Figure out where its primary food source is and keep it from eating too much of it to where it grows big enough to kill you 4 or 5 years down the road." Meanwhile there's one 20 feet from your face and hungry now.

They recovered from '94 and are back running the place. We need better than that.

True. But I imagine that a good ol' gun ban getting a conservative base energized against them and then working against them on the rest of their projects is pretty immediate. Right now the conservative base is sleeping (or playing wait and see). Having your power base eroded in the first two years of what you hope to be an eight year run isn't so fun either. Two years in Congress is as close to immediate as anyone can get.

Anyone who is hoping for some sort of gaurantee that we won't lose needs a healthy dose of reality. This fight is as much about mutually assured destruction than anything else. We might lose, but we will make them lose too. They don't want to lose their whole agenda over this single issue. Right now the Democratic party is in conflict over the 2A. There are many Democrats who rightly see that there is no upside to being an anti. They are fighting with the old-line Democrats who see gun control as their personal mission from God. We are speaking to the former.

If a blue dog democrat supports RKBA, who else are the Brady Bunch going to vote for? A Republican?

Regards,


SwissFluCase

SwissFluCase
02-04-2009, 2:04 PM
Which are easier to find in reguards to Dem Anti candidates and GOP Anti-Candidates (Especially in your district ?)

That's true here. Not so much nationally.

Regards,


SwissFluCase