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pennys dad
02-02-2009, 8:52 PM
Anyone know where I can find information on carry laws for CA mountains while hiking.

Thx

762cavalier
02-02-2009, 8:58 PM
In a nutshell. CA state park CCW = no no Open carry No-no
National Park CCW= OK with permit? Open carry no-no
National forest Open carry OK Not sure CCW
BLM Open carry OK Not sure CCW

tuolumnejim
02-02-2009, 9:00 PM
If your thinking about going into a National Forest area, this is a good starting place. http://www.fs.fed.us/recreation/programs/trails/welcome.shtml

MudCamper
02-02-2009, 9:21 PM
tuolumnejim already linked the NF info. And for the BLM read this: http://www.blm.gov/ca/st/en/prog/recreation/hunting.print.html

And this is useful: http://www.californiaopencarry.org/CaliforniaOpenCarry.pdf

rayra
02-02-2009, 9:25 PM
also consult the Fish and Game regs re the legality of concealed carry while in possession of a valid fishing license and actively fishing or walking in / out of a fishing spot.

Check also with the head ranger / law enforcement official for each Forest you intend to carry in. They all exercise the law a bit differently. Best be aware of biases beforehand. Angeles Forest in unincorporated territory is good to go with open carry (or was 5yrs ago during my semi-related trouble).

fairfaxjim
02-03-2009, 1:26 AM
Read PC 12025 through 12027 for CCW laws - generally for your question not allowed without CCW permit.

Read PC 12031 for loaded open carry laws - generally ok if not in incorporated area and not prohibited by whatever land management district whose land you are on. As said above, State Parks are a no no, National Parks a no no, National Forest ok, BLM ok. ALL firearm permission granting statements by federal agencies also require following state laws.

MudCamper
02-03-2009, 9:44 AM
also consult the Fish and Game regs re the legality of concealed carry while in possession of a valid fishing license and actively fishing or walking in / out of a fishing spot.

Read PC 12025 through 12027 for CCW laws - generally for your question not allowed without CCW permit.

Since you guys disagree on this point, here's some clarification. It's not a F&G code. It's in the PC:

12027. Section 12025 does not apply to, or affect, any of the following:

(g) Licensed hunters or fishermen carrying pistols, revolvers, or
other firearms capable of being concealed upon the person while
engaged in hunting or fishing, or transporting those firearms
unloaded when going to or returning from the hunting or fishing
expedition.

You can legally CC when going to/from/on fishing/hunting trips. This is a very nice exeption from 12025 if/when you can use it.

fairfaxjim
02-03-2009, 11:01 AM
Since you guys disagree on this point, here's some clarification. It's not a F&G code. It's in the PC:



You can legally CC when going to/from/on fishing/hunting trips. This is a very nice exeption from 12025 if/when you can use it.

I don't disagree, I simply didn't address it as the OP referred to hiking, not hunting/fishing. I guess there is the few instances where you could, by simply having a hunting/fishing license take of advantage of that exception when hiking, but IMHO that would be the rare case. In all casess however, that is why I try to cite the PC code sections and refer the questioner to read them themself. There are so many exceptions and special cases in some of them, they may find one that fits them nicely, but I wouldn't have a clue that it would.

emc002
02-03-2009, 11:13 AM
In a nutshell. CA state park CCW = no no Open carry No-no
National Park CCW= OK with permit? Open carry no-no
National forest Open carry OK Not sure CCW
BLM Open carry OK Not sure CCW

CA State Park - CCW: Yes with a valid CA CCW permit.
National Parks - CCW: Yes, with a valid permit in which the park resides, provided that state allows you to carry in that state's parks.

Decoligny
02-03-2009, 11:33 AM
In a nutshell. CA state park CCW = no no Open carry No-no
National Park CCW= OK with permit? INCORRECT Open carry no-no
National forest Open carry OK Not sure CCW
BLM Open carry OK Not sure CCW

Since the National Parks now mirror the State Parks, since CA has no CCW in State Parks, then it's no CCW in National Parks in CA also.

emc002
02-03-2009, 11:58 AM
Since the National Parks now mirror the State Parks, since CA has no CCW in State Parks, then it's no CCW in National Parks in CA also.

Unfortunately, your premise that you can't carry in State Parks is incorrect, thus your correllation to NP is likewise incorrect.

From the CACCW website:
"Q: Can a licensed CA CCW holder carry in a CA State Park? What about a off-duty LEO? What is considered a State Park?

Yes and yes.

As for what constitutes a State Park - there are too many to list, but you can browse the list at Find a Park.

Be careful - there are City Parks, County Parks, State Parks, National Parks, National Forests and they have different rules. Then, to make matters worse, there are National Monuments, National Historic Trails, National Historic Sites, National Recreation Areas, and National Memorials. Then of course we have city and state beaches - perhaps some county beaches as well. See the following related threads regarding parks:[List all park FAQ threads]

This question was an area of contention due to some seemingly unclear regulations:

Quote:
14 CCR s 4313
Cal. Admin. Code tit. 14, s 4313

BARCLAYS OFFICIAL CALIFORNIA CODE OF REGULATIONS
TITLE 14. NATURAL RESOURCES
DIVISION 3. DEPARTMENT OF PARKS AND RECREATION
CHAPTER 1. GENERAL
Weapons and Traps.

(a) No person shall carry, possess or discharge across, in or into any portion of any unit any weapon, firearm, spear, bow and arrow, trap, net, or device capable of injuring, or killing any person or animal, or capturing any animal, or damaging any public or private property, except in underwater parks or designated archery ranges where the Department of Parks and Recreation finds that it is in its best interests.

(b) Nothing herein contained shall be construed in derogation of the use of weapons permitted by law or regulation and to be used for hunting in any unit, or portion thereof, open to hunting.

(c) Firearms not having a cartridge in any portion of the mechanism, other unloaded weapons or devices such as traps, nets, and bows and arrows may be possessed within temporary lodging or mechanical mode of conveyance when such implements are rendered temporarily inoperable or are packed, cased, or stored in a manner that will prevent their ready use.

Note: Authority cited: Section 5003, Public Resources Code. Reference: Sections 5003.1 and 5008, Public Resources Code.

The consensus was that this regulation referred only in the context of hunting, and did not address otherwise lawful carry of a weapon per CCW or LEO/HR218.

Thanks to a member on this board, we now have an opinion via email from Adrian Itaya (AITAY@parks.ca.gov), Superintendent of Public Safety Services, California State Parks, Public Safety Division.

Quote:
My apologies for the delay-

The California Department of Parks and Recreation through its legal section, has determined that CCR 4313 exempts the following:

1) California Peace Officers who are otherwise permitted to carry firearms
2) Honorably retired California Peace Officers with concealed weapons privileges
3) Citizens with concealed firearms privileges

Please feel free to contact me if you have any questions.

Adrian E. Itaya

California State Parks
Public Safety Division

(916) 651-0403

Take note that many park rangers may not properly interpret this law, and in fact the Public Safety Division of California State Parks took several months to respond with a definitive answer. It would be prudent to have a printout of the above text so, at a minimum, they may have a contact person to escalate if you encounter any problems."

fairfaxjim
02-03-2009, 12:11 PM
From the CA State Park Website Rules and Regulations Summary:
LOADED FIREARMS AND HUNTING are not allowed in units of the State Parks System. Possession of loaded firearms or air rifles is prohibited. Exceptions are for hunting in recreation areas that have been designated by the State Park and Recreation Commission.

Also, be very careful when hunting in State Recreation Areas administered by the CA State Parks. They do allow hunting, but may have specific rules regarding firearms used and allowed while hunting. This from the Auburn State Recreation Area park info .pdf:

Except for shotguns and rifles used
for hunting during the hunting season, all
firearms, loaded or unloaded, are prohibited in
the Auburn State Recreation Area (CCR 4113).
All hunting is in compliance to the Department
of Fish and Game.

Again, get the rules, read them and know them, and communicate with the Ranger's office for the area in question. They are, in the end, the one's who are going to bust you, so it would be worthwhile knowing what thier point of view is. There have been reported confusions between BLM ranger districts and the statewide BLM manager's policy on AW's and OLL's. You really don't want to end up the moving target in a battle between a ranger and his boss.

As noted above, there appears to be some relief for the few of those in CA who have CA CCW's and will be excepted to the CA State Park prohibition.

pennys dad
02-03-2009, 8:01 PM
WOW! lots of information, thank you and time to research

5150Marcelo
02-03-2009, 8:13 PM
I hunted the local mountains here near Silverwood lake. I'll tell you what, I wont NOT carry a sidearm while up in there after all the big kitty kat tracks that I saw! F that!

swhatb
02-03-2009, 9:05 PM
tag

odysseus
02-03-2009, 9:06 PM
In the forest and BLM when talking about open carry, are we talking open carry unloaded (and say mag on belt for pistols) or loaded open carry?

.

7x57
02-03-2009, 9:14 PM
Hmm. Are there any special LA county regs about this? I'd like to be able to carry in more remote parts of the Angeles National Forest, but had a sneaking suspicion that being inside LA county would be a problem somehow.

7x57

Boatz
02-03-2009, 9:24 PM
Since you guys disagree on this point, here's some clarification. It's not a F&G code. It's in the PC:

12027. Section 12025 does not apply to, or affect, any of the following:

(g) Licensed hunters or fishermen carrying pistols, revolvers, or
other firearms capable of being concealed upon the person while
engaged in hunting or fishing, or transporting those firearms
unloaded when going to or returning from the hunting or fishing
expedition.

You can legally CC when going to/from/on fishing/hunting trips. This is a very nice exeption from 12025 if/when you can use it.

When I read these sections, it reads to me that I can open loaded carry WHILE fishing, but must carry unloaded while hiking to and from my fishing spot... but I'm still trying to figure it out.

rayra
02-03-2009, 9:44 PM
In the forest and BLM when talking about open carry, are we talking open carry unloaded (and say mag on belt for pistols) or loaded open carry?

.

I'm talking and practicing loaded Open Carry. It's legal in unincorporated county lands / coterminous with Forest territory. I've done it in Angeles Forest and survived a faulty / false prosecution for concealed carry (long story, which I've related in parts in other subforums here). And I'm doing it in southern Sequoia Forest around the Kern River Valley. And I've contacted both ranger districts to inquire / confirm legality. And the Kern County sherrifs in that backwater are fine with it as well, providng you aren't being a jackass about it.

rayra
02-03-2009, 9:53 PM
Hmm. Are there any special LA county regs about this? I'd like to be able to carry in more remote parts of the Angeles National Forest, but had a sneaking suspicion that being inside LA county would be a problem somehow.

7x57
You can read some of the background here at the top of the page - http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=106009&page=3

You want to find and study L.A. County Code Title 13 Public Peace, Morals and Welfare, Chapter 13.66 FIREARMS, BOWS AND ARROWS, Subsection 13.66.010 Use of weapons permitted when - and the raft of disqualifying locations that are included in it.
Pretty much the safest thing for you to do would be get a USGS map for the area you want to go thru, apply all the Federal, State, Forest, BLM regs to it in some sort of color code, then overlay all the exclusion zones in that reg. Do it all in a way that leaves you with a redacted map of where it's legal to carry Open-Loaded, then have at it.
But be warned. City cops and Sheriffs in greater Los Angeles do NOT know these regs and think it's illegal ANYWHERE in their domain. They will jack you up if they find you doing so at or near the head of a trail, or have some occasion to interact with you otherwise. Be knowledgeable and armed within the law and you'll win the case. Or ought to, anyway. If you can afford 'justice'.

/who me, I'm not bitter

rayra
02-03-2009, 9:56 PM
When I read these sections, it reads to me that I can open loaded carry WHILE fishing, but must carry unloaded while hiking to and from my fishing spot... but I'm still trying to figure it out.

I'm reading it slightly different. Once you've parked and geared up, you are covered in carrying concealed loaded while bushwhacking your way to your fishing spot. Certainly the argument can be made that you are vulnerable to predator attack during that traverse as much as you are while standing about casting.
The reg seems to refer to the road travel portion of the fishing trip being held to the normal regs on weapon transport.

7x57
02-03-2009, 10:37 PM
You can read some of the background here at the top of the page - http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=106009&page=3
Be knowledgeable and armed within the law and you'll win the case. Or ought to, anyway. If you can afford 'justice'.


Somehow, I'm not surprised at all.

7x57

gunsmith
02-17-2009, 10:42 AM
with a CA fishing license, technically I can ccw?

Matt@EntrepriseArms
02-17-2009, 3:12 PM
I've open carried on BLM land many times, with the firearm loaded. We were not hunting, just shooting at targets. I have encountered Rangers on several occasions, and have never even been questioned as far as either the guns we were shooting, or the one on my hip. They only asked us to make sure we picked up our trash when we were done.

Good info about the bows and arrows, though, as I've done some target practice with my kid and their archery set while camping up at Big Bear Lake. I'll have to double check and make sure that I'm not breaking any laws with that.

Kid Stanislaus
02-17-2009, 5:33 PM
My guess is that shooting into a tree can get you into trouble.

Meplat
02-17-2009, 10:21 PM
My CCW does not exclude any parks, Nationl, state, county, or city.
I'm goin with that.



Unfortunately, your premise that you can't carry in State Parks is incorrect, thus your correllation to NP is likewise incorrect.

From the CACCW website:
"Q: Can a licensed CA CCW holder carry in a CA State Park? What about a off-duty LEO? What is considered a State Park?

Yes and yes.

As for what constitutes a State Park - there are too many to list, but you can browse the list at Find a Park.

Be careful - there are City Parks, County Parks, State Parks, National Parks, National Forests and they have different rules. Then, to make matters worse, there are National Monuments, National Historic Trails, National Historic Sites, National Recreation Areas, and National Memorials. Then of course we have city and state beaches - perhaps some county beaches as well. See the following related threads regarding parks:[List all park FAQ threads]

This question was an area of contention due to some seemingly unclear regulations:

Quote:
14 CCR s 4313
Cal. Admin. Code tit. 14, s 4313

BARCLAYS OFFICIAL CALIFORNIA CODE OF REGULATIONS
TITLE 14. NATURAL RESOURCES
DIVISION 3. DEPARTMENT OF PARKS AND RECREATION
CHAPTER 1. GENERAL
Weapons and Traps.

(a) No person shall carry, possess or discharge across, in or into any portion of any unit any weapon, firearm, spear, bow and arrow, trap, net, or device capable of injuring, or killing any person or animal, or capturing any animal, or damaging any public or private property, except in underwater parks or designated archery ranges where the Department of Parks and Recreation finds that it is in its best interests.

(b) Nothing herein contained shall be construed in derogation of the use of weapons permitted by law or regulation and to be used for hunting in any unit, or portion thereof, open to hunting.

(c) Firearms not having a cartridge in any portion of the mechanism, other unloaded weapons or devices such as traps, nets, and bows and arrows may be possessed within temporary lodging or mechanical mode of conveyance when such implements are rendered temporarily inoperable or are packed, cased, or stored in a manner that will prevent their ready use.

Note: Authority cited: Section 5003, Public Resources Code. Reference: Sections 5003.1 and 5008, Public Resources Code.

The consensus was that this regulation referred only in the context of hunting, and did not address otherwise lawful carry of a weapon per CCW or LEO/HR218.

Thanks to a member on this board, we now have an opinion via email from Adrian Itaya (AITAY@parks.ca.gov), Superintendent of Public Safety Services, California State Parks, Public Safety Division.

Quote:
My apologies for the delay-

The California Department of Parks and Recreation through its legal section, has determined that CCR 4313 exempts the following:

1) California Peace Officers who are otherwise permitted to carry firearms
2) Honorably retired California Peace Officers with concealed weapons privileges
3) Citizens with concealed firearms privileges

Please feel free to contact me if you have any questions.

Adrian E. Itaya

California State Parks
Public Safety Division

(916) 651-0403

Take note that many park rangers may not properly interpret this law, and in fact the Public Safety Division of California State Parks took several months to respond with a definitive answer. It would be prudent to have a printout of the above text so, at a minimum, they may have a contact person to escalate if you encounter any problems."