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freonr22
01-31-2009, 11:00 PM
in their builds? a brochure w/ materials? a list vendors? EVERYOTHER INDUSTRY does it how about arms mfg's?
you buy a car, they tell you what tires come on it... the hp of the engine... the gear ratio... what say you calgunners?

JeffM
01-31-2009, 11:03 PM
I wouldn't trust the ones that don't.

Jpach
01-31-2009, 11:03 PM
Yes they should.

RedDawn
01-31-2009, 11:04 PM
Industry secrets.:chris:

technique
01-31-2009, 11:05 PM
LOL, I didn't see this one coming.

Frick it!!! Yes, yes they should. I don't buy without knowing.

RedDawn
01-31-2009, 11:06 PM
Should have made a poll.:D

freonr22
01-31-2009, 11:08 PM
simple example from ed brown website. i dont even own one
* Receivers precision machined from pre heat treated steel.
* Hand fitted bolts with welded on handles.
* Spiral flutes on bolt distribute lubrication, enhance self-cleaning, and allow a tighter fitting bolt.
* Match quality barrels, hand lapped to perfection.
* Benchrest quality chambering, using our own specially ground reamers.
* Deep countersunk barrel crowning for maximum accuracy and durability.
* Exclusive integral controlled feed extractor for the ultimate in feeding reliability on the controlled feed version. Battle proven M-16 type extractor is used for the push feed design 223 caliber only.
* Shilen Match trigger hand tuned, or Jewell trigger for lighter trigger pulls.
* Three position lever safety securely locks bolt down while engaged, but allows unloading while safety is engaged.
* All weather McMillan fiberglass stock, precision bedded with aluminum pillars.
* Checkering on Savanna, Damara, Bushveld, and Express hunting models, non-slip paint on other models.
* Easy to operate push-button bolt stop.
* 1" recoil pad with standard 13 3/4" length of pull. Custom pull lengths available in 1/4" increments.
* .300" thick heavy duty recoil lug adds rigidity and prevents action flex.
* Sling swivels standard equipment, double front swivels on Target models for bipod attachment.
* Heavy duty 8-40 scope mount threads.
* Socket head action screws.

bushmaster site
Bushmaster Home Defense & Recreation Models

Bushmaster Modular Carbine

Bushmaster Modular Carbine

View Larger View Larger
Product Description:

The B.M.A.S. Modular Carbine incorporates a number of our popular Bushmaster Modular Accessories into a unique, lightweight, feature packed carbine that will stand out at any range.

Features popular Bushmaster Modular Accessories such as:

* B.M.A.S. Four Rail Tubular Forend which free-floats the Barrel from the Barrel Nut forward to avoid any possibility of barrel deflection or accuracy degradation.

* Molded Rubber Sure-Grip Rail Covers snap over the Rail Sections on the Handguard to add ergonomic comfort and rail protection.
* The rear sight is a detachable Dual Aperture B.M.A.S. Rear Flipup unit with windage calibrated to ˝ M.o.A.

* The front sight is our B.M.A.S. Clamp-on designed to fit directly over the Milled Front Gas Block. It folds down with the touch of a button to allow scope use, and incorporates an elevation adjustable M16A2 front sight post.

* The Ergonomic Pistol Grip is an ambidextrous design, molded of urethane with a stipple finish to provide a solid non-slip grip and firm control.

* The 5.56 mm/.223 Rem. Chrome-lined 16" ChromeMoly Vanadium Steel Barrel is Fluted for lighter weight and enhanced cooling capabilities, and includes the A2 “Birdcage” Flash Suppressor.
* The Modular Carbine is available with either a lightweight Skeleton Stock or a 6 Position Telestock

* Shipped in a Lockable, Hard Plastic Case with Operator’s Safety Manual, 30 Round Magazine, Orange Safety Block and Black Web Sling

* One Year Bushmaster Warranty


sabre

spr
Barrel Assembly
spr
Upper Assembly
spr
Spr
Specifications

Sabre A3 Upper & Matched Lower CNC Machined from 7075-T6 Forgings, Five Position Stock, Tactical Handguards, Ergo Grip, Match Trigger, Flip Up Sights, Bi-Pods
Barrel Assembly

Fluted Mid-Weight Mid-Length, Fitted with M4 Feed Ramps, 410 Stainless Steel Barrel or Vanadium Alloy Barrel


TYPE BARREL TWIST MATERIAL CHROME
LINED INCLUDED SKU MSRP
5.56 16.0 1:8 410 STAINLESS N 2 MAGAZINES 30-RD 90147 $2,499.00
5.56 18.0 1:8 410 STAINLESS N 2 MAGAZINES 30-RD 90215 $2,499.00
5.56 18.0 1:7 VANADIUM Y 2 MAGAZINES 30-RD 90116 $2,499.00
5.56 20.0 1:8 410 STAINLESS N 2 MAGAZINES 30-RD 90145 $2,499.00
6.5 GRENDEL 18.0 1:7.5 VANADIUM Y 2 MAGAZINES 25-RD 90117 $2,699.00
6.5 GRENDEL 20.0 1:9 410 STAINLESS N 2 MAGAZINES 25-RD 90146 $2,699.00

freonr22
01-31-2009, 11:13 PM
i thought about it and have only done one the home depot/lowes and there are more variables than you'd think.. so i elected not to. LISTEN i have no beef w/ j&J, just as a 1-2 employee business, I have to have to have a website, provide details, have a detailed brochure, i did the work, therefore so should everyone else. Heck even Mc donalds say its a DOUBLE QUARTER POUNDER W/CHEESE,2 MOUTH WATERING QUARTER POUND ALL BEEF PATTIES WITH McDONALDS SPECIAL SAUCE,PICKLES AND ONIONS ON A FRESH SESAME SEED BUN.

technique
01-31-2009, 11:22 PM
i thought about it and have only done one the home depot/lowes and there are more variables than you'd think.. so i elected not to. LISTEN i have no beef w/ j&J, just as a 1-2 employee business, I have to have to have a website, provide details, have a detailed brochure, i did the work, therefore so should everyone else. Heck even Mc donalds say its a DOUBLE QUARTER POUNDER W/CHEESE,2 MOUTH WATERING QUARTER POUND ALL BEEF PATTIES WITH McDONALDS SPECIAL SAUCE,PICKLES AND ONIONS ON A FRESH SESAME SEED BUN.

but where did those sesame seed buns originally come from????:D I demand to know!!!!:eek::) And who grew the pickles????

freonr22
01-31-2009, 11:23 PM
my/your god made them. they are organic

sorensen440
01-31-2009, 11:32 PM
Yes and no
sometimes there are agreements made with the company's they buy from that may prevent it.
regardless they should not answer with an attitude when a reasonable question is asked

DedEye
01-31-2009, 11:34 PM
I wouldn't trust the ones that don't.

QFT.

If they can't due to specific agreements, that's one thing. Blanket refusals, not so trustworthy.

RedDawn
01-31-2009, 11:34 PM
A simple "we're contractually obligated to keep that confidential" would have sufficed.

jgraham15
01-31-2009, 11:49 PM
but where did those sesame seed buns originally come from????:D I demand to know!!!!:eek::) And who grew the pickles????


I'm not sure you would really want to know!!! :D

DedEye
01-31-2009, 11:53 PM
i thought about it and have only done one the home depot/lowes and there are more variables than you'd think.. so i elected not to. LISTEN i have no beef w/ j&J, just as a 1-2 employee business, I have to have to have a website, provide details, have a detailed brochure, i did the work, therefore so should everyone else. Heck even Mc donalds say its a DOUBLE QUARTER POUNDER W/CHEESE,2 MOUTH WATERING QUARTER POUND ALL BEEF PATTIES WITH McDONALDS SPECIAL SAUCE,PICKLES AND ONIONS ON A FRESH SESAME SEED BUN.

There's a reason I don't eat there ;).

bear308
02-01-2009, 12:44 AM
A simple "we're contractually obligated to keep that confidential" would have sufficed.

yes, but that's just name of the OEM. Why in the hell could they not list twist rate?

freonr22
02-01-2009, 12:46 AM
they didn't want to know it sounds like

recshooter
02-01-2009, 12:46 AM
Everyone knows what a sesame seed is..but where does it come from? Does it come from a sesame, well what the ***k is a sesame?

RIP Mitch Hedberg.

freonr22
02-01-2009, 12:48 AM
Sesame
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Jump to: navigation, search
For other uses, see Sesame (disambiguation).
Sesame
Sesame plants
Sesame plants
Scientific classification
Kingdom: Plantae
(unranked): Angiosperms
(unranked): Eudicots
(unranked): Asterids
Order: Lamiales
Family: Pedaliaceae
Genus: Sesamum
Species: S. indicum
Binomial name
Sesamum indicum
L.

Sesame (Sesamum indicum) is a flowering plant in the genus Sesamum. Numerous wild relatives occur in Africa and a smaller number in India. It is widely naturalized in tropical regions around the world and is cultivated for its edible seeds, which grow in pods.

It is an annual plant growing to 50 to 100 cm (2-3 feet) tall, with opposite leaves 4 to 14 cm (5.5 in) long with an entire margin; they are broad lanceolate, to 5 cm (2 in) broad, at the base of the plant, narrowing to just 1 cm (half an inch) broad on the flowering stem. The flowers are white to purple, tubular, 3 to 5 cm (1 to 2 in) long, with a four-lobed mouth.
Contents
[hide]

* 1 Origins
o 1.1 Etymology
o 1.2 Mythological background
* 2 Uses in food and cuisines
* 3 Nutrition and health treatments
* 4 Cultivation
o 4.1 Pests
* 5 See also
* 6 References
* 7 External links

[edit] Origins

Despite the fact that the majority of the wild species of the genus Sesamum are native to sub-saharan Africa, Bedigian (1984, 1988, 1998, 2000, 2003) demonstrated that sesame was first domesticated in India, citing morphological and cytogenetic affinities between domesticated sesame and the south Indian native S. mulayanum Nair., as well as archeological evidence that it was cultivated at Harappa in the Indus Valley between 2250 and 1750 BC, and a more recent find of charred sesame seeds in Miri Qalat and Shahi Tump in the Makran region of Pakistan.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sesame

ar15barrels
02-01-2009, 6:10 AM
Mc donalds say its a DOUBLE QUARTER POUNDER W/CHEESE,2 MOUTH WATERING QUARTER POUND ALL BEEF PATTIES
WITH McDONALDS SPECIAL SAUCE,PICKLES AND ONIONS ON A FRESH SESAME SEED BUN.

What are the ingredients in the special sauce?
We need to know the exact blend.

wilcox34
02-01-2009, 9:58 AM
yes, but that's just name of the OEM. Why in the hell could they not list twist rate?

Twist rate was listed read the fourm again.

sorensen440
02-01-2009, 10:01 AM
Twist rate was listed read the fourm again.
It wasnt at first

CSACANNONEER
02-01-2009, 10:03 AM
They don't have to and, we don't have to buy from ones who won't tell us if the barrels are made out of steel, horse poop or pot metal. It's really that simple. Every manufacturer is free to make their own decission about how they want to market their product and every consumer is free to make their most educated decissions about how they want to spend their money.

10ring45
02-01-2009, 10:19 AM
I like to know specifically because if you need repair work or you want to do upgrades its always nice to know the ingredients, I dont buy food either if I dont read the label and fine out whats in it.

X-NewYawker
02-01-2009, 10:37 AM
in their builds? a brochure w/ materials? a list vendors? EVERYOTHER INDUSTRY does it how about arms mfg's?
you buy a car, they tell you what tires come on it... the hp of the engine... the gear ratio... what say you calgunners?

Every other industry? Apple lists the specs and manufacturers of every chip and wire? GM lists every parts plant for every spark plug?

In the gun business, ANYONE with an FFL can buy the parts for a gun and put them together. Sniper's Hide is filled with Tactical Rifle companies who are all making Remington 700s into "sniper rifles."

It's the quality of the FINISHED product that keeps a company in business. How do we know if a gun is any good? Unless we buy it blind, we get on Calguns and ask people who've had experience with that particular gun.

I don't care who makes and with what parts it if it is actually a superior product

cannon
02-01-2009, 10:45 AM
I would expect them to say things like barrel length and twist or that they machined the receiver out of a certain quality of metal etc.

I don't think any manufacturer needs to tell you the names of their subcontractor as they may have specified different qualities or tolerances than what the subcontractor provides to the public under it's own name.

Even if they say "Our parts are made by Acme, Inc. to our exacting specifications." And in fact their parts are four times better than what Acme sells to the public. Most will say "Why use Acme they are junk or I can buy an Acme receiver and build the very same gun for thousands less." When in fact the parts are not junk and you can't build the same quality gun at home because you can't get the higher end parts.

tankerman
02-01-2009, 1:06 PM
What are the ingredients in the special sauce?
We need to know the exact blend.There is a difference between an ingredient list and a recipe.

Turbinator
02-01-2009, 2:14 PM
Unless you are more then the average consumer, I do NOT see the need for a company to disclose every last detail around the origin of their parts used to build or assemble their wares. I work for a company that sells hard drive storage, and we do not get down to every last bit to tell the buyers where each resistor and capacitor come from. Some of our major buyers want to know - so we get into NDA discussions with them as needed - but by and large, we do not disclose every last single part's source. I don't see why the gun market should really be any different.

You want to know where everything came from? Build it yourself. :)

Turby

technique
02-01-2009, 2:39 PM
In the gun business, ANYONE with an FFL can buy the parts for a gun and put them together. Sniper's Hide is filled with Tactical Rifle companies who are all making Remington 700s into "sniper rifles."



You need more than an FFL to MFG a firearm.

CHS
02-01-2009, 4:10 PM
Even Model 1 Sales advertises that they use E.R. Shaw barrels.

AR15's are parts guns. And the number of OEM's out there is rather limited. There are TWO things that you need to combine in order to make a quality AR:

- Quality of parts
- Quality of workmanship

An AR built with the first, but not the second might shoot awesome, or might present a world of issues. An AR built with both will not present issues.

When buying an AR, I want to know certain basic things like twist rate, barrel material and barrel blank maker. Most companies happily give you this information because it helps the discriminating buyer make an informed decision. The quality of workmanship will speak for itself, or be discovered through early adopters' use of the firearm in question.

But when someone will refuse to tell me where they get their barrel blanks, and that their CHROME-LINED .308 barrels get a 1/2 MOA, my BS detector starts going crazy.

Chamber dimensions, dry-film lubricant coatings, finishes and internal electronics are fine to keep as industry secrets. Barrel and receiver materials, linings, forged vs. cast, etc ARE NOT.

J&J wouldn't even tell me what kind of freaking BATTERIES their lights take!

freonr22
02-01-2009, 4:14 PM
by the way i think matsu****a is the worlds largest battery mfg.

freonr22
02-01-2009, 4:14 PM
matsusheeeta

technique
02-01-2009, 4:25 PM
saltwater...couldn't help myself...hehe


edit: saltwater works now!!!

wilcox34
02-01-2009, 4:28 PM
Every other industry? Apple lists the specs and manufacturers of every chip and wire? GM lists every parts plant for every spark plug?

In the gun business, ANYONE with an FFL can buy the parts for a gun and put them together. Sniper's Hide is filled with Tactical Rifle companies who are all making Remington 700s into "sniper rifles."

It's the quality of the FINISHED product that keeps a company in business. How do we know if a gun is any good? Unless we buy it blind, we get on Calguns and ask people who've had experience with that particular gun.

I don't care who makes and with what parts it if it is actually a superior product


I thought you needed a 07 to build firearms. I thought thats what someone said at a gun show. If you take a bunch of parts and put it together your a manufacture. Right? I thought there was only one gun per person a year allowed to be made.With out an 07.

And that guy bs, it seems as if his pants are a little too tight he wont let the issues go. Dont go to J&J anymore everyone on this forum agrees with you that they are jerks and dont care about Calguns and little dumb questions.:43:

ar15barrels
02-01-2009, 9:32 PM
edit: saltwater works now!!!

poop.

Addax
02-01-2009, 9:44 PM
Since we are a semi-custom AR Shop building Gas Piston and DI uppers for Law Enforcement Departments / Officers, Military Personnel, Target Shooters and Recreational Shooters, I feel that it is important to list the most as much accurate information on the components we utilize.

This way our customers know they are going to get quality manufactured parts in the uppers we build for them.

I also list out the various mfg's we use on my Addax Gas Piston Upper page: http://www.addaxgpu.com/

trinydex
02-02-2009, 8:07 AM
i thought about it and have only done one the home depot/lowes and there are more variables than you'd think.. so i elected not to. LISTEN i have no beef w/ j&J, just as a 1-2 employee business, I have to have to have a website, provide details, have a detailed brochure, i did the work, therefore so should everyone else. Heck even Mc donalds say its a DOUBLE QUARTER POUNDER W/CHEESE,2 MOUTH WATERING QUARTER POUND ALL BEEF PATTIES WITH McDONALDS SPECIAL SAUCE,PICKLES AND ONIONS ON A FRESH SESAME SEED BUN.

why did you make this so hard to read?

freonr22
02-02-2009, 8:11 AM
it was perfectly blurry to me :)

freakshow10mm
02-02-2009, 8:36 AM
I thought you needed a 07 to build firearms. I thought thats what someone said at a gun show. If you take a bunch of parts and put it together your a manufacture. Right? I thought there was only one gun per person a year allowed to be made.With out an 07.

And that guy bs, it seems as if his pants are a little too tight he wont let the issues go. Dont go to J&J anymore everyone on this forum agrees with you that they are jerks and dont care about Calguns and little dumb questions.:43:
You need an 07 FFL to manufacture for redistribution. If you make a gun for yourself you don't need one.

dgc357
02-02-2009, 6:23 PM
I called Alexander Arms a couple of months ago to find out what lower parts they used and the lady I talked to didn't even know what I was talking about :confused:, must have been new. I still don't know.

CHS
02-02-2009, 7:12 PM
I called Alexander Arms a couple of months ago to find out what lower parts they used and the lady I talked to didn't even know what I was talking about :confused:, must have been new. I still don't know.

Don't just call up and randomly ask. You need to tell them that you have some technical questions and then ask to speak to someone qualified to answer them. Most firearms manufacturers will get back to you.

Hell, I emailed Mossberg a question about the finish on my silver reserve shotgun and they happily told me that it was a nickel finish on ordinary steel.

dgc357
02-02-2009, 7:46 PM
Don't just call up and randomly ask. You need to tell them that you have some technical questions and then ask to speak to someone qualified to answer them. Most firearms manufacturers will get back to you.

Hell, I emailed Mossberg a question about the finish on my silver reserve shotgun and they happily told me that it was a nickel finish on ordinary steel.

Thats what I did. If I was still in the market for a 6.5G I definitely would have call back but, I was just curious and I went with a Noveske 5.56 instead.