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12GAUGE
01-31-2009, 9:18 PM
I am going to the Utah CCW course tomorrow and got to thinking how much would I pay to CCW in Kali? So with the State in the financial condition it is in I'm sure it would help to make CCW a legal option. I know we should not have to pay anything to carry, But I came up with a $1000 max for a 5 year permit.

ViPER395
01-31-2009, 9:27 PM
I'd go for $1000.

OCArmory
01-31-2009, 9:34 PM
I'm in for a grand. Probably not any more than that though. While your think about ways to make money. How about $500 Assault rifle registrations. I would probably register 2 or 3. I know we shouldn't have to pay for it but it would be a start.
Mike

sfpcservice
01-31-2009, 9:43 PM
I would pay $1000, but they have to include a Sig P239 and 500 rounds of ammo. :-)

DDT
01-31-2009, 9:54 PM
I'd prefer to pay the same that I pay for the right to free speech. I guess I'd go to about the price of a CA DL.

Perhaps as much as the administrative part of my car registration.

M. Sage
01-31-2009, 10:05 PM
Gee, I'm making slightly more money in Texas, cost of living is a lot lower (you can rent a house for what a studio apartment goes for in CA!!!) and CCW is an easy option. In fact, you can CCW while traveling (say I go to the range: I can CCW there and back without a license). :D

End result, I'm basically being paid to have access to CCW.

1911_Mitch
01-31-2009, 10:08 PM
If 5000 gun owners were willing to pay $1000 each for a CCW permit that they would not otherwise be able to obtain....

That equals 5 MILLION dollars! :eek:

Send that message to the Governator! :thumbsup:





Seriously.



I'm in.

50CalAL
01-31-2009, 10:08 PM
We shouldn't have to pay that much but since I just realized I am in Cali....I'd go with $1000 max for 5 yrs for a CCW.

SwissFluCase
01-31-2009, 10:11 PM
Throw in some top notch training, and then a kilobuck becomes a very good deal.

Otherwise, I would not want to pay more than $150.00 for the license if I had to pay for state mandated training.

Regards,


SwissFluCase

Telperion
01-31-2009, 10:15 PM
I'm sure the Governor will care about $5 million when there's a $42 billion deficit.

The state isn't the in the business of selling rights, and the idea of $1000 for a permit is offensive.

JBird33
01-31-2009, 10:54 PM
$1000 one time fee, but only if it were CCW for life and came with an NRA life membership and immunity from all the CA AW laws and magazine capacity restrictions. And no registration of anything. And a free 1000rd case of mil-surplus ammo each month, delivered, my choice of caliber.

And free healthcare.

And hot coffee every morning too, while we're at it.

ZirconJohn
01-31-2009, 11:37 PM
I do not know what I would be willing to pay for a CCW if I did not live in Mendocino County. The right to carry, for me, the privilege is priceless.

The Mendo County CCW cost me about $250, and refresher is around $50 every two years. The Utah CCW, well that was $225 (would have got for less, but this was pre 308Fan about a year) and renewal is every 5 years for, what... I think it's $10... a very small price to pay!

I think that Californians already pay too much (period!).

We already pay too much for everything, and we have given up more rights in this State than any other!

People please... enough is enough! We are stand up, law abiding citizens and we obey the law. Why should we pay more for that which is already our inalienable Right!

The American man needs to stop backing up from pie-in-the-sky politicians, our backs are not [already] against the wall yet! (???) The more we let them take from us, the more they want.

$1000.00... no, no, no, no, no... What I paid, the going rate is enough. What we need is State wide Shall-Issue. That's what I would pay... the price it is now.

Do you remember the Million Man March? We need a Million Armed American March! (Eezus, that spells 'maam') Gotta be a better acronym.

I'm done, that's my rant:rant:

sorensen440
01-31-2009, 11:38 PM
heck I would probably pay a couple hundred bucks a month if I had to
Whats your safety worth?


I agree though that it should not be more then say the 65 bucks for utah

berto
01-31-2009, 11:44 PM
$25 covers the state's paperwork when I buy a gun. My HSC was $25 and is good for 5 years.

How about $25 for the background check and $25 more for a test and a wallet card?

hoffmang
01-31-2009, 11:57 PM
Well, I plan on spending 10's of thousands of dollars so that most of us can spend less than $100 thereafter.

Federal Court decisions aren't cheap :devil2:

-Gene

mvpatriot
02-01-2009, 12:01 AM
THANK YOU, AND THOSE LIKE YOU GENE!

Theseus
02-01-2009, 12:09 AM
OR we could simply suggest that if they stopped trying to enforce the stupid gun laws and prosecuting otherwise law abiding people they would already save millions and it would reduce crime!

50CalAL
02-01-2009, 12:20 AM
THANK YOU, AND THOSE LIKE YOU GENE!

+1 Thanks Gene

N6ATF
02-01-2009, 12:20 AM
$1. Because it can be revoked at any time, for any, or no reason at all. That's the problem with rights being turned into privileges.

Annie Oakley
02-01-2009, 12:33 AM
Guys, while you are asking yourselves what you are willing to pay to exercise your right, I was thinking we should be asking the politicians what they are willing to spend to keep us disarmed. In other words, we should be telling, not asking them if their political careers are worth keeping law abiding citizens disarmed.

It really is sad that so many are willing to compromise on this issue. I'm sorry guys, but I do not want to spend one red cent to buy permission to exercise my constitutional right.

tommyid1
02-01-2009, 12:34 AM
$0 cause i shouldnt have to pay for it.

SwissFluCase
02-01-2009, 12:34 AM
Well, I plan on spending 10's of thousands of dollars so that most of us can spend less than $100 thereafter.

Federal Court decisions aren't cheap :devil2:

-Gene

And I plan on sending you a lot more than $100.00! Thanks again, Gene!:thumbsup:

Regards,

SwissFluCase

sorensen440
02-01-2009, 12:35 AM
It really is sad that so many are willing to compromise on this issue. I'm sorry guys, but I do not want to spend one red cent to buy permission to exercise my constitutional right.
I agree we should not have to pay a penny but that's not likely to happen
(at least at first)

50CalAL
02-01-2009, 12:43 AM
THANK YOU, AND THOSE LIKE YOU GENE!

+1 Thanks Gene

Annie Oakley
02-01-2009, 12:47 AM
My prayers are with Don Kilmer and the Nordykes. I so hope that the 9th circuit rules in favor of incorporation.

12GAUGE
02-01-2009, 12:48 AM
Guys, while you are asking yourselves what you are willing to pay to exercise your right, I was thinking we should be asking the politicians what they are willing to spend to keep us disarmed. In other words, we should be telling, not asking them if their political careers are worth keeping law abiding citizens disarmed.

It really is sad that so many are willing to compromise on this issue. I'm sorry guys, but I do not want to spend one red cent to buy permission to exercise my constitutional right.

As I whole heartily agree with you. I asked as a hypothetical that if a law was enacted, Say the permit cost a $1000. Would you refuse to pay it and go with out?

And Gene, Thank you for all you do.

dreyna14
02-01-2009, 12:55 AM
I'm sure the Governor will care about $5 million when there's a $42 billion deficit.

The state isn't the in the business of selling rights, and the idea of $1000 for a permit is offensive.

Small change for a big problem created by utter morons in our goverment. I've thought long and hard about this as well, and $1000 is a number I've come up with in my head including the training, background checks, and certificate itself. However, it is highly offensive that I basically have to get permission to be able to defend myself.

As I whole heartily agree with you. I asked as a hypothetical that if a law was enacted, Say the permit cost a $1000. Would you refuse to pay it and go with out?

And Gene, Thank you for all you do.

$1000 is chump change compared to the risk of getting caught doing CC without a permit. If I am going to pay a grand, I don't want some bureaucratic moron revoking it because they're having a bad day. I better get a guaranteed 5 year or so minimum duration without fear of random revocation except in cases of felony conviction, etc.

ZirconJohn
02-01-2009, 1:19 AM
The other night at approximately 11:00: PM on my way to the Bay Area, I was pulled over in Santa Rosa. Here is the scoop; Sonoma County is NOT shall issue, NOT may issue. The Officer asked me where I was going, I said San Carlos. Then he asked me why, and I said I'm going to pick-up a gun.

He was on my tail for a few miles:auto:he already ran my plate and registration, I am certain of this.

At this point, without hesitation, (both my hands on the wheel) I said "Sir, I must inform you that I have a conceal carry license".

Well, I'll save the continued conversation... typical exchange; where is it, is it loaded, can I see your CDL and CCW please, inform Officer I'm FFL Dealer etc.

This traffic stop did not last more than 4 minutes 'max', and I was on my way back on the freeway. No ticket, no further questions, no nothing... oh, I gave the Officer my business card.

I do not think this scenario would have gone down quite the same without the legal document CCW. Sure, it's an inalienable Right and I agree etc... but, the CCW Permit is background clear, conceal carry [loaded] on my person is clear, you are free to go.

CCW is our Right, it's also correct, it's legal, and it's the tell all.

Would you pay a minimal fee for this? Sure you would.

yellowfin
02-01-2009, 2:13 AM
Well, I plan on spending 10's of thousands of dollars so that most of us can spend less than $100 thereafter.

Federal Court decisions aren't cheap :devil2:

-GeneI sincerely hope you're going to sue the opposition for reimbursement plus interest and expenses, right?

Window_Seat
02-01-2009, 2:42 AM
Would the Founding Fathers of the U.S. Constitution and Bill of Rights pay for a CCW permit? (edited to add) If $1000.00 goes for the training, the ammo & other things that a pro-2A should consider resonable, then I'll go for it, but to just throw it away into the Government coffers is foolish if it is for just a piece of paper saying you can exercise your 2A rights.

Erik.

56Chevy
02-01-2009, 7:04 AM
You could offer $100,000 for each permit per year. The legislature would still be opposed to it. Just let them self destruct.;)

CitaDeL
02-01-2009, 7:45 AM
How much would you pay to carry concealed?

Good message. Shows the public servants we are open to buying them off to get what we want. What if we want to worship a god in the way we see fit? How much should that cost us? How about redress of grivances? How much are you willing to cough up to complain to our govenment?

Then there is the flip side to this... Why should a select group of people be targeted to subsidize government? Would you say that it would be acceptable to tax a person on the basis of their skin color? Or the choice of god you worship? While the funds generally benefit everyone, the burden is not apportioned fairly.

56Chevy
02-01-2009, 9:38 AM
How much would you pay to carry concealed?

Good message. Shows the public servants we are open to buying them off to get what we want. What if we want to worship a god in the way we see fit? How much should that cost us? How about redress of grivances? How much are you willing to cough up to complain to our govenment?

Then there is the flip side to this... Why should a select group of people be targeted to subsidize government? Would you say that it would be acceptable to tax a person on the basis of their skin color? Or the choice of god you worship? While the funds generally benefit everyone, the burden is not apportioned fairly.
Good point.:thumbsup:

1911_Mitch
02-01-2009, 9:49 AM
Shows the public servants we are open to buying them off to get what we want.

Good point. Not really the message I was thinking of sending.



While the funds generally benefit everyone, the burden is not apportioned fairly.

Well, if you don't want to play, dont pay.

Aegis
02-01-2009, 11:17 AM
I would be willing to pay the same nominal fee as a drivers license ONLY as a cost to issue the permit. I refuse to pay off these corrupt politicians in Sacramento in order to be "granted" a right that is guaranteed to me by the 2A. If state won't allow CCW after Heller and incorporation through Nordyke, then LOC it is.

yellowfin
02-01-2009, 11:22 AM
How much would you pay to carry concealed?

Good message. Shows the public servants we are open to buying them off to get what we want.
We should send a message with our money instead that we're willing to pay that money for their replacements who will recognize our rights. Ever seen the movie Ransom? Turn the money against them.

$900 to candidates and $100 for a permit = a $1000 permit you can get.

falawful
02-01-2009, 11:27 AM
The proper CCW laws/costs are only to be found in VT and AK.

I however, would go $2k if need be. IN CCW was ~$60 a few years back (5 yr permit.

WRT the AW comments, I'm totally against registering any guns though.

freakshow10mm
02-01-2009, 11:58 AM
Sucks to pay for a right. MI charges $105 for a 5 year permit.

I like Indiana. Lifetime permit is only $65. Turn 21, pay, $65, go on with life.

HowardW56
02-01-2009, 12:03 PM
I'd go for $1000.

I would too

CCWFacts
02-01-2009, 12:07 PM
I'm in for a grand. Probably not any more than that though. While your think about ways to make money. How about $500 Assault rifle registrations. I would probably register 2 or 3. I know we shouldn't have to pay for it but it would be a start.

Ok, I believe that CCW should be either "Vermont carry" (in states where people have likely grown up with gun safety knowledge) or it should be shall-issue, with a fee that's just enough to cover administration of the program.

But, aside from how much I think it "should" cost (see above), what would I be willing to pay?

$1,000 for a two year permit. Even $1,000 for a one year permit, I would probably say yes to that. I realize that that would exclude most people, but I would pay it.

Today, depending on which authority you apply to, when you add everything up, costs can go over $500 for the two-year permit: application fee, psych test and training.

For AW permits: I already have all the AWs I'll ever want and I only paid $25 I think! So I wouldn't pay any for it. But if I did want another AW for some reason, I guess I would be willing to pay a few hundred bucks. I would be happy to pay the NFA fees in that range too if I wanted an NFA weapon, but there aren't any of them I'm particularly interested in.

freakshow10mm
02-01-2009, 12:14 PM
$1000 for a 5 year permit eliminates a lot of people that would like to protect themselves but can't barely afford a small revolver.

cadurand
02-01-2009, 12:17 PM
While I'd love to say $0, in a perfect world. I know that's not going to happen.

But I'm not going to pay $1000 for a right that is protected in the constitution. I've donated what I could afford to the NRA so far. That's a better idea in my opinion.

Annie Oakley
02-01-2009, 1:21 PM
$1000 for a 5 year permit eliminates a lot of people that would like to protect themselves but can't barely afford a small revolver.

I so totally agree with this. There are people, that due to circumstances beyond their control, have been placed into a situation that is difficult to get out of. And to suggest that they can only protect themselves outside of their homes if they pay what would be more than a months pay to some, is unreasonable.

In a California where politicians are easily swayed by bribes, and graft, I would say that $1000.00 per CCW is possible, if the money was more important to them than making new gun laws. However, they have already made it perfectly clear, that what they really want is for the law abiding to remain disarmed as much as the politicians legally can. So now we wait with bated breath for the 9th circuit to make a decision in our favor.

Black Majik
02-01-2009, 1:23 PM
...

1911su16b870
02-01-2009, 1:37 PM
With the current situation in Los Angeles County...figure $3-5K attorney fees to apply with no guarantee of action or a favorable response.

Annie Oakley
02-01-2009, 1:52 PM
I just finished doing the math on this, and these are the numbers as they relate to CCW issuance.

As of January of 2008, there were 38,000,000 people in California.

After reading about CCW's in other states, I can confidently say that the number of CCW holders averages about 1 to 5 % of a states population.

Taking these numbers into consideration, if we could get just 1% of California's population to get a CCW at $1000.00 each, the state would gain a revenue of $380 million dollars. If 5% of the states population bought CCW's at $1000.00 each, the state would gain a revenue of nearly 2 billion dollars. However, that is only a fraction of the size of the hole that politicians have dug the state into. So, besides voting them out of office, does anyone see any other incentive to have them vote in favor of shall issue ?

Glock22Fan
02-01-2009, 1:53 PM
$1000 for a 5 year permit eliminates a lot of people that would like to protect themselves but can't barely afford a small revolver.

I really think that we should not be charged for a right, but I can see the value in being able to demonstrate that one has passed some sort of background check or scrutiny.

It really upsets me that some people above are prepared to price out the elderly, infirm, students, single moms and dads and other less fortunate amongst us by talking four figure sums. I think that around $100, to include a basic gun safety course (or other demonstrable experience) is quite sufficient, and that should last at least five years. Many people, who might already own a handgun bought in better days, would find even this hard to pay, $1000 would be impossible.

Vectrexer
02-01-2009, 2:33 PM
$80 for 4 years or $20 per year,, plus the pre-requirement of a CCW class and range qualification before the CCW can be issued.

Even the $20 should be able to be waived or funded by the state for low income US citizens. What about the class and qul for low-income US Citizens? That is where fund raisers for our sport come in


$1000.00 too much! Even for five years!
$500.00 too much! Even for five years!

I think anyone supporting any costs over $50/year for a CCW is stoned out of their gourd.

It's a right people! And really,,CCW should not cost any more than open carry. $0.00.

1911su16b870
02-01-2009, 2:35 PM
+1 Glock22fan

RKBA, 2nd amendment is a right...that has been FUBAR-ed by many in this great state.

CCWFacts
02-01-2009, 5:08 PM
It really upsets me that some people above are prepared to price out the elderly, infirm, students, single moms and dads and other less fortunate amongst us by talking four figure sums.

I don't think anyone here wants prices to be so prohibitive. I think everyone here falls into two camps: either it should have no fees (Vermont carry), or the fees should be just enough to administer the program, as they are in other states.

The question was more to establish what's the max the market would bear, and it sounds like there is no small number of people (including me) who would pay $1,000 if we had the option to.

Looking this further, the market value of a CCW for someone who wants to do EP would probably be much greater, perhaps $20,000 to $30,000 per year would be my guess. That's probably how much extra money an EP person could make being able to carry vs. not. (Note that to carry, an EP person needs a bunch of other certifications in addition to the CCW.)

jumbopanda
02-01-2009, 5:20 PM
None, I don't want to encourage the lawmakers' bad behavior.

Nefarious
02-01-2009, 5:21 PM
Right now? I suppose I would go for $1000 on a 5 year permit.

In four months, my answer will change to $0. By then I will be back from the Customs academy :D

KCM222
02-01-2009, 5:21 PM
OR we could simply suggest that if they stopped trying to enforce the stupid gun laws and prosecuting otherwise law abiding people they would already save millions and it would reduce crime!

Exactly. I've already paid my $1000 through taxes that get spent on this.

Why pay for what should be yours in the first place?

wildhawker
02-01-2009, 5:23 PM
Should we then subsidize those who cannot afford such prohibitive fees for the [fundamental] right to self-defense? I can see it now- Medi-Cal, CCW-Cal...

This is less a question of what the market will bear (the privileged will always bear more, and more) and more a question of reasonable burden to all persons having the right to carry (and choose to).

DiscoBayJoe
02-01-2009, 7:37 PM
How much do I want to pay? Nothing or a fee to cover a Background Check.

How much would I pay? I'd probably go at $250/yr or $1000/5yr

kap
02-01-2009, 9:34 PM
I would pay to see shall issue in CA, but $20 could pay somebody to shuffle the paper and bytes around.

Well, I plan on spending 10's of thousands of dollars so that most of us can spend less than $100 thereafter.

Federal Court decisions aren't cheap :devil2:

-Gene

You may elevate your hero status in my eyes if you pull this off.

DDT
02-01-2009, 9:53 PM
The question was more to establish what's the max the market would bear, and it sounds like there is no small number of people (including me) who would pay $1,000 if we had the option to.

It is really sickening to think that people will pay this for a "right" especially since they are more than happy to let others be priced out of their "rights" I think someone else has already posted how closely this resembles a poll tax.

You can't really use a market model since there is only one source for the goods. The Market will easily bear much more than $1000. Because right now for a $10,000 donation to a sheriff's re-election committee and a couple nice gifts you can have your own CCW in just about any county in CA. Do you think that the private security agencies would blink at $10,000 if they could just pass the cost on to their Hollywood clients? You aren't talking about what the market will bear you're talking about what you will pay. It it clear if the state wants a smaller "market" they will make the price higher. They do want a smaller market and the price is much higher. If they want a larger market they would lower the price. There is no "market" here. There is no scarcity and there is only one monopoly source for your permit to second amendment rights.

JDoe
02-01-2009, 10:05 PM
$0.00 is what I would pay to exercise my right of self defense. It works for Vermont and Alaska why not California? Besides what about the individuals that can't afford a can of tuna but have a nice revolver in their possession? Are we to deny individuals the right to defend themselves simply because they can't afford to pay a tax disguised as a license fee? Besides the reduction in crime should save California money AND the increase in gun, accessory and training sales should also generate a little tax income for the state.

Now on the other hand :43: I would pay in the range of $10,000 per year for a sticker to drive my gasoline guzzling automobile in the HOV lane with only me in it. Are you listening California?

CCWFacts
02-01-2009, 10:29 PM
It is really sickening to think that people will pay this for a "right" especially since they are more than happy to let others be priced out of their "rights" I think someone else has already posted how closely this resembles a poll tax.

HELLO, NO ONE IS PROPOSING THIS AS THE WAY THINGS SHOULD BE, OR AS A DESIRABLE MODEL OF CCW ISSUANCE, OR ANYTHING WHICH IS POLITICALLY POSSIBLE EVEN. It was just a hypothetical question. No state is going to have $1,000 CCWs. California will either be in its current situation, where CCWs are affordable but often not available, or it will move to a situation where CCWs are affordable and available.

We're never going to have $1,000 CCWs. He was just asking, "what's the max price point where it would be worth it for you?"

You can't really use a market model since there is only one source for the goods.

NO ONE HERE WANTS A MARKET FOR CCWs, any more than we want a market for voting or anything else like that. Everyone here wants either "Vermont carry" (no CCW, not politically realistic in this state) or shall-issue at a price that's just enough to cover the program costs (ie, somewhere from $50 to $150 probably).

Btw, here in LA you can't get a CCW by making a $10,000 donation. Donations to the Sheriff are capped at $1,000, and that doesn't help you get a CCW, otherwise a lot of us would in fact send in $1,000 checks. No, the bar is a lot higher than that. If you can hold a fund raiser for the sheriff where you get 100 friends together who donate $1,000 each, that would probably go a long way to getting one. But $1,000 is pocket change for a lot of people in this town.

In SF, no amount of donations to anyone will get a CCW. The only thing that works is being a DA, mayor, etc.

Linh
02-01-2009, 10:29 PM
They'll have to pay me to CCW. I'm not gonna pay a grand just to carry isn't better for them to buy for you to CCW.

That's why I'm gonna apply for a LEO position and get paid to ccw.

But the real answer is technically you can pay to ccw, you can have the right amount to support the right person in office then of course they will issue you a ccw.

tuolumnejim
02-01-2009, 11:18 PM
I won't pay a penny for the "privilege" that the State wants to grant you when I do NOT recognize their authority to infringe on a right.

yellowfin
02-02-2009, 12:23 AM
Again, anyone want to try the "Ransom" approach here and say there's 1000 people x $1000 willing to spend compiled into a $1,000,000 "You Issue or Your Replacement Will" fund?

toolman9000
02-02-2009, 12:31 AM
I would pay $100.00 a year, or buy ten years for $900.00. Plus I would want access to police pistol ranges that are currently inaccessible to the public.

BillCA
02-02-2009, 2:59 AM
$1000 for a CCW? Not a Prayer!

Other states have permit fees that range from $65 to $150 for permits that last 3 to 6 years.

Reasonable would be $125 for a 5 year permit. The permit qualifies you to carry either revolver or semi-auto pistol or both. Permits to be issued within 30 days.

Permits should not require make/model/serial number be listed. That becomes a revenue source when a person wants to add/delete any item from the permit and requires too much bureaucratic overhead.

Likewise, should the state fail to provide for the permit processing or licensing of instructors or required support of the program, the training requirement is waived.

The state shall not mandate a training program of excessive cost or duration. That is, it may not mandate a 3-day, $1500 class as standard.

Seesm
02-02-2009, 3:06 AM
I won't pay a penny for the "privilege" that we all should have with no paperwork anyway...

The bad guys carry guns no matter what so good guys should be able to also... LEGALLY.

DDT
02-02-2009, 7:49 AM
HELLO, NO ONE IS PROPOSING THIS AS THE WAY THINGS SHOULD BE, OR AS A DESIRABLE MODEL OF CCW ISSUANCE, OR ANYTHING WHICH IS POLITICALLY POSSIBLE EVEN. It was just a hypothetical question.

Well then, how much would you pay for permits for your firearms? $1000 each per year?

M. D. Van Norman
02-02-2009, 8:33 AM
Again, anyone want to try the “Ransom” approach here and say there’s 1000 people x $1000 willing to spend compiled into a $1,000,000 “You Issue or Your Replacement Will” fund?

Yes, we all need to contribute to this fund and to the you-issue-or-prepare-to-defend-yourself-in-court fund.

Glock22Fan
02-02-2009, 8:39 AM
Donations to the Sheriff are capped at $1,000, and that doesn't help you get a CCW,

Suggest that you start studying a certain Sheriff's contribution lists.

You will find cases where Mr X, executive, has given $1,000. And Mrs. X, Homemaker, and Miss X, Student, and Master X, student, and, for all I know, Mr. X's gardeners, chauffeur, dogs and cats.

Then look at the employers list, you will find companies where the CEO gives $1000, and the senior members of the company each give $1,000, and the mid-level managers, and the engineers and, for all I can remember, the janitors.

Then cross-check these names (Mr. X and the CEO) against the CCW list. Been there, seen it for myself. It took three of us about a week to analyse these donations, but now we have the spreadsheets.

It might cost more than $1,000, but for someone on a high six or seven figure income it's quite obtainable without a good guest list for a fund-raiser - although this will do it too.

Annie Oakley
02-02-2009, 9:00 AM
Should we then subsidize those who cannot afford such prohibitive fees for the [fundamental] right to self-defense? I can see it now- Medi-Cal, CCW-Cal...

This is less a question of what the market will bear (the privileged will always bear more, and more) and more a question of reasonable burden to all persons having the right to carry (and choose to).

Um, need I remind you that the framers of the Constitution were willing to give a firearm and accessories to the less fortunate that could not afford them ? Personally, I don't think this issue is so much about what we are willing to pay for our rights as it is about what the politicians are willing to do to keep us from exercising our rights. And unfortunately, I'm beginning to see a pattern with some police that suggests that they are becoming increasingly more cooperative with that goal. I hope I'm wrong.

truthseeker
02-02-2009, 10:45 AM
What I am going to post is a little off topic, but I think we need to find out how much of our tax dollars in this state are being spent on laws/agencies/personnel to regulate firearms and to publish that amount for ALL citizens of California to see.

California is in a deep hole as far as the budget is concerned. The citizens here are fed-up with wasteful spending and I believe that by publishing the info above will open the eyes of ALL Californians that the money spent on a lot of the regulations is wasteful.

If "the rest" of California finds out how much money is being spent on the enforcement of the regulations I think we will be able to reach out to citizens that there is too much money being spent on something that is a RIGHT!

RobG
02-02-2009, 11:23 AM
The state isn't the in the business of selling rights, and the idea of $1000 for a permit is offensive.

Agreed. 1000.00 is assinine. I would pay a fee to the state for "admin. costs" of no more than 50.00. I already paid to DROS the gun, the sales tax on said gun, ammo, holster, etc.

I would rather not pay for my RKBA.

DDT
02-02-2009, 11:31 AM
Suggest that you start studying a certain Sheriff's contribution lists.

You will find cases where Mr X, executive, has given $1,000. And Mrs. X, Homemaker, and Miss X, Student, and Master X, student, and, for all I know, Mr. X's gardeners, chauffeur, dogs and cats.

Then look at the employers list, you will find companies where the CEO gives $1000, and the senior members of the company each give $1,000, and the mid-level managers, and the engineers and, for all I can remember, the janitors.

Then cross-check these names (Mr. X and the CEO) against the CCW list. Been there, seen it for myself. It took three of us about a week to analyse these donations, but now we have the spreadsheets.

It might cost more than $1,000, but for someone on a high six or seven figure income it's quite obtainable without a good guest list for a fund-raiser - although this will do it too.

It would seem that some on this thread think that is perfectly acceptable but they only want to pay $1000.

yellowfin
02-02-2009, 11:40 AM
What would it take to bring up charges against the non-issuing sheriffs who are guilty of selling CCW's for campaign donations? They treated it like a crime with Carona, so is it in fact a crime? We know for a fact that several of them are clearly guilty of it. What do we do to bring charges?

artherd
02-02-2009, 12:09 PM
I'm going to be spending quite a lot - in the tens of thousands. The result should benefit everyone.

EDIT: if I sound just like gene, it's merely a coincidence ;) ;) ;)

nobody_special
02-02-2009, 12:39 PM
I couldn't afford $1000, for myself or my wife. We could probably swing $100 but not much more than that.

...and this is why burdening fundamental rights with taxes or fees is not permitted.

ldivinag
02-02-2009, 12:58 PM
Well, I plan on spending 10's of thousands of dollars so that most of us can spend less than $100 thereafter.

Federal Court decisions aren't cheap :devil2:

-Gene

bravo gene...

;)


personally, $100 max for the first time. then a refresher for like $50 max after that.

heck my ham license is free. although the test was $14. last 10 years and renewals are free too. ;)

DDT
02-02-2009, 12:59 PM
What would it take to bring up charges against the non-issuing sheriffs who are guilty of selling CCW's for campaign donations? They treated it like a crime with Carona, so is it in fact a crime?

CGS = CalGuns Stings.

DDT
02-02-2009, 1:00 PM
heck my ham license is free. although the test was $14. last 10 years and renewals are free too. ;)

Now, taking an FCC licensing model would be great. Would CCW be no-code?

dixieD
02-02-2009, 1:32 PM
The taxes that I already pay to the state and feds.

wildhawker
02-02-2009, 1:41 PM
Um, need I remind you that the framers of the Constitution were willing to give a firearm and accessories to the less fortunate that could not afford them ? Personally, I don't think this issue is so much about what we are willing to pay for our rights as it is about what the politicians are willing to do to keep us from exercising our rights. And unfortunately, I'm beginning to see a pattern with some police that suggests that they are becoming increasingly more cooperative with that goal. I hope I'm wrong.

Um, maybe I do need clarification; how does such an historical reference (which I cannot confirm, but will recognize for the sake of argument) mute my point regarding the subsidization and/or overburdening of a fundamental right?

That aside, I think we mostly (entirely?) agree that the issue is not what it appears on its face. When political issues are attacked on the front presented by the politicians, one is usually outflanked. Further, the police/LE have separated themselves from the citizenry and do seem to be moving towards a "rule" mentality.

KCM222
02-02-2009, 4:16 PM
I'm going to be spending quite a lot - in the tens of thousands. The result should benefit everyone.

Maybe everyone who is willing to pay their $1000 will send it your way for whatever legal case you guys are cooking up. That would be nice. :thumbsup:

Salty
02-02-2009, 4:58 PM
In this case, I would rather get something for $1000 than nothing for $0. However I wish that it was shall issue that cost nothing more than admin fee's.

$1000 would have to be for about 3+ years though. I could not afford to spend $1000 any more frequently.

Glock22Fan
02-02-2009, 5:35 PM
Many of you guys seem to think that it is OK to pay big bucks for a CCW. So, apparently you like the current system in many jurisdictions, you are just trying to negotiate a lower price with your chief/sheriff.

To paraphrase an immortal saying, "Those prepared to pay heavily for rights thereby denied to those unable to pay do not deserve them."

Whatever happened to principles?

BillCA
02-03-2009, 3:53 AM
If "the rest" of California finds out how much money is being spent on the enforcement of the regulations I think we will be able to reach out to citizens that there is too much money being spent on something that is a RIGHT!

There is no constitutional right to carry a concealed weapon. This was brought up in earlier cases (e.g. Nunn v. Georgia, IIRC) that concealed firearms were regulated in towns and cities.

Now, if you want to discuss open carry as a right, then yes, that right has been infringed (trampled, stapled and mutilated) for generations.

Wild Squid
02-03-2009, 4:06 AM
$1000? What are ya'll thinking? I'll pay $1000 to CCW the day I pay $1000 to buy an apple from Safeway.

savs2k
02-03-2009, 4:41 AM
i'd pay 1000 to ccw I won't lie. Instead of 5000 of us paying 1g to ccw I say 5000 of us all donate 500 to CGF. What do you think gene? =) haha

AndrewMendez
02-03-2009, 5:06 AM
$1000 one time fee, but only if it were CCW for life and came with an NRA life membership and immunity from all the CA AW laws and magazine capacity restrictions. And no registration of anything. And a free 1000rd case of mil-surplus ammo each month, delivered, my choice of caliber.

And free healthcare.

Thats what I am talking about!
I would gladly pay 1000!

SkatinJJ
02-03-2009, 5:33 AM
We have to take a test (pass it) AND pay a poll tax to vote.

Let me pay for the right to defend myself too.

Whoops, that's the silliest thing I've written this morning. Let me contribute the same amount of money, or more, to the right people with the right agenda and have a better result.

Sam1
02-03-2009, 8:16 AM
one time payment of 2000 and just renewal fees after that:26:

xxxx
02-03-2009, 8:35 AM
$2500+ - I just spent close to $2000 on a PS90 - I would trade that in any day for a CCW. That's how I see it, but I wouldn't be happy about giving my money to them like that.

N6ATF
02-03-2009, 6:58 PM
There is no constitutional right to carry a concealed weapon in the state of Georgia, as determined by the Georgia Supreme Court. This was brought up in earlier cases (e.g. Nunn v. Georgia, IIRC) that concealed firearms were regulated in towns and cities.

Fixed.

tetris
02-03-2009, 7:03 PM
$1000 without thinking twice
$2500 max I would consider

CABilly
02-04-2009, 12:58 AM
I'd pay a grand for a one-time starter, then admin for renewal.

I would also expect to be exempted from any hi-cap bans, rosters, etc. With my training and extensive background check, I should be deemed at least as competent or trustworthy as any other exempted person in the use of my weapon.

gunsmith
02-04-2009, 1:31 AM
1000?!
no way!
200 tops includes course and fees to the state

BillCA
02-04-2009, 6:40 AM
There is no constitutional right to carry a concealed weapon in the state of Georgia, as determined by the Georgia Supreme Court. This was brought up in earlier cases (e.g. Nunn v. Georgia, IIRC) that concealed firearms were regulated in towns and cities.
Fixed.

You're precisely on target. However, the general principle of law has long favored open carry over concealed arms, and that was my point.

California, Texas and most other states have made open carry generally illegal whilst making concealed carry a fee-based program (or old-boy's network like CA). This effectively prevents citizens at large from "bearing" arms in the traditional sense.

JDoe
02-04-2009, 7:37 AM
Originally Posted by N6ATF
Quote:
Originally Posted by BillCA
There is no constitutional right to carry a concealed weapon in the state of Georgia, as determined by the Georgia Supreme Court. This was brought up in earlier cases (e.g. Nunn v. Georgia, IIRC) that concealed firearms were regulated in towns and cities.
Fixed.You're precisely on target. However, the general principle of law has long favored open carry over concealed arms, and that was my point.

California, Texas and most other states have made open carry generally illegal whilst making concealed carry a fee-based program (or old-boy's network like CA). This effectively prevents citizens at large from "bearing" arms in the traditional sense.

Is there any distinction made between open and concealed carry in the constitution? Isn't bearing arms just that, regardless of the means of carry?

alleyehave
02-04-2009, 5:21 PM
I'd hate to have to pay anything. Our ancestors and forefathers payed with their lives for us to enjoy those rights that are being infringed upon.

N6ATF
02-04-2009, 7:08 PM
You're precisely on target. However, the general principle of law has long favored open carry over concealed arms, and that was my point.

California, Texas and most other states have made open carry generally illegal whilst making concealed carry a fee-based program (or old-boy's network like CA). This effectively prevents citizens at large from "bearing" arms in the traditional sense.

Doesn't mean those laws or even court rulings are constitutional. Any loaded form of carry is constitutional. Forced unloaded or empty chamber or pay to play, etc... are unconstitutional infringements, period.

sorensen440
02-04-2009, 7:09 PM
Many of you guys seem to think that it is OK to pay big bucks for a CCW. So, apparently you like the current system in many jurisdictions, you are just trying to negotiate a lower price with your chief/sheriff.

To paraphrase an immortal saying, "Those prepared to pay heavily for rights thereby denied to those unable to pay do not deserve them."

Whatever happened to principles?
I dont like nor think it should be expensive but the question was how much would you pay.