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sacshooter1
01-31-2009, 9:12 AM
If a person is able to still register assault weapons in California and said person buys a stripped receiver, registers it as an assault weapon, then builds the receiver into an AR15 for personal use would that be considered manufacturing an assault weapon? Per ATF guidelines assembling stripped frames or receivers that are not offered for sale is not considered manufacturing, but it seems that lawyers at DOJ here see it different. Any opinions?

Shane916
01-31-2009, 9:28 AM
If a person is able to still register assault weapons in California and said person buys a stripped receiver, registers it as an assault weapon, then builds the receiver into an AR15 for personal use would that be considered manufacturing an assault weapon? Per ATF guidelines assembling stripped frames or receivers that are not offered for sale is not considered manufacturing, but it seems that lawyers at DOJ here see it different. Any opinions?

People buy stripped lowers everyday and build them up to fully functional AR-15's. I don't see how hypothetically registering them makes a difference.

CSACANNONEER
01-31-2009, 9:37 AM
If a person is still able to register a reciever as an AW (I can only assume Millitary, LEO, FFL, Millitary R&D contract or Hollywood rentals), then they can build it up in any way they want to as long as they follow both federal and state laws and don't cross the NFA line without the proper paperwork in hand. I'm not really sure what you are asking though. Are you talking about assembling a large number of lowers for one's self or others and worried about needing a license to manufacture?

sacshooter1
01-31-2009, 9:48 AM
The AR's would be used and owned by a LEO and registered with the DOJ. They would be built by the individual officer for their personal use and they would not be offered for sale. After a phone call to DOJ it is their opinion that any officer doing so would be manufacturing an assault weapon. I want to have a good argument for the second phone call that will be placed to the DOJ this week.

CSACANNONEER
01-31-2009, 10:05 AM
As long as the reciever is registered as an AW prior to the build, I don't see the problem with each LEO doing his own build or "manufacturing" as DOJ wants to call it. I'm still not sure how or why this could be seen as a problem IF the reciever is registered as a California AW prior to putting it together. I may be missing something though.

Beelzy
01-31-2009, 10:22 AM
Manufacturing AWs and DOJ in the same sentence is never a good thing.

IMO, manufacturing is manufacturing no matter if its us or the Fuzz. We all
go to the same Pen.

Jpach
01-31-2009, 10:42 AM
IF you reg an AW then you can make an AW, thats y u reg it...

fourXfour
01-31-2009, 10:59 AM
This conversation has come up a few times. I'm personally not convinced one way or the other, but to help your argument here are a few points to bring up to DOJ.

1. 12280(f)(1) States Peace Officers are not prohibited from possessing an Assault weapon on or off duty.

12280 (f) (1) Subdivisions (b) and (c) shall not prohibit the possession
or use of assault weapons or a .50 BMG rifle by sworn peace officer
members of those agencies specified in subdivision (e) for law
enforcement purposes, whether on or off duty.

2. Secondly 12280(f)(2) lists the registration requirements. Registration is only required for the "delivery, transfer or sale," on an AW. A stripped OLL is not AW and does not require registration to purchase. Manufacture is conveniently left out of the registration process. Either that means that peace officers are not allowed to manufacture an AW or that the manufacturing does not require registration. I am also unaware of a penal code section that uses the term "Manufacturing," most only deal with "Possession."

I am aware of some cases (unconfirmed) where officers purchased AW's out of state and brought them over state lines (Federal & State Felony). I am unaware of a case where a peace officer was prosecuted for manufacturing an assault weapon (ie addding a Flash hider to a Mini-14). I doubt there are any cases involving OLL's since they have only been around for a few years.

I've read a few threads on this forum where officers from Southern CA are purchasing fully built OLL AR's, removing the mag lock and using the rifle on duty. I have yet to see a memo from the AG on this subject.

jamesob
01-31-2009, 11:34 AM
The AR's would be used and owned by a LEO and registered with the DOJ. They would be built by the individual officer for their personal use and they would not be offered for sale. After a phone call to DOJ it is their opinion that any officer doing so would be manufacturing an assault weapon. I want to have a good argument for the second phone call that will be placed to the DOJ this week.
ok, as a former leo i can tell you that the ones buying and registering them as aw with the doj, are in fact for personal use. i have never understood why a leo would have to register it in his name if it wasn't for personal use. thats why agencies issue them.

DDT
01-31-2009, 1:17 PM
It doesn't matter what the purpose of the weapon is. If he has a letter of registration for the serial number on the receiver then he can assemble the weapon with all the evil features he desires. He still has to stay within state and federal laws but the California AW provisions wouldn't limit the features he can have. The idea of assembling a weapon from readily available drop-in parts is well established in OLL builds, the only difference with your friend is he won't have to avoid having "evil features."

Max-the-Silent
01-31-2009, 2:19 PM
If you're trying to hang your hat on the ATF definition of "manufacturing" v. the state defenition, forget it.

LEO's that wish to build/purchase/possess an AW for personal use have to get writen departmental permission first, and then go through the registration process:


(2) Subdivisions (a), (b), and (c) shall not prohibit the delivery, transfer, or sale of an assault weapon or a .50 BMG rifle to, or the possession of an assault weapon or a .50 BMG rifle by, a sworn peace officer member of an agency specified in subdivision (e), provided that the peace officer is authorized by his or her employer to possess or receive the assault weapon or the .50 BMG rifle. Required authorization is defined as verifiable written certification from the head of the agency, identifying the recipient or possessor of the assault weapon as a peace officer and authorizing him or her to receive or possess the specific assault weapon. For this exemption to apply, in the case of a peace officer who possesses or receives the assault weapon prior to January 1, 2002, the officer shall register the assault weapon pursuant to Section 12285 on or before April 1, 2002; in the case of a peace officer who possesses or receives the assault weapon on or after January 1, 2002, the officer shall register the assault weapon pursuant to Section 12285 not later than 90 days after possession or receipt. In the case of a peace officer who possesses or receives a .50 BMG rifle on or before January 1, 2005, the officer shall register the .50 BMG rifle on or before April 30, 2006. In the case of a peace officer who possesses or receives a .50 BMG rifle after January 1, 2005, the officer shall register the .50 BMG rifle not later than one year after possession or receipt. The peace officer must include with the registration, a copy of the authorization required pursuant to this paragraph.
(3) Nothing in this section shall be construed to limit or prohibit the delivery, transfer, or sale of an assault weapon or a .50 BMG rifle to, or the possession of an assault weapon or a .50 BMG rifle by, a member of a federal law enforcement agency provided that person is authorized by the employing agency to possess the assault weapon or .50 BMG rifle.

fourXfour
01-31-2009, 2:44 PM
I was of the understanding that DOJ would only register complete AW's. I also have a friend who had an OLL, received letterhead from his chief and DOJ refused to register it.

Does anyone know of any officers registering their OLLs?

bwiese
01-31-2009, 2:55 PM
I was of the understanding that DOJ would only register complete AW's. I also have a friend who had an OLL, received letterhead from his chief and DOJ refused to register it.

Does anyone know of any officers registering their OLLs?

I am unclear how DOJ refused to register it since they would not know of prior OLL purchase.

I suspect the dept letter was not in order - perhaps not signed by chief or someone delegated by chief.

I'm not sure of exact sequence but many LA-area LEOs are buying OLL rifles. They get letter from dept, file for LE AW reg and then once the reg is done, they drop the BB device or MMG grip.

I also have reports of quite a few LA-area cops who are dropping the BB or MM grip the moment they leave the FFL (i.e, in parking lot, in patrol car).

CSACANNONEER
01-31-2009, 3:37 PM
I am unclear how DOJ refused to register it since they would not know of prior OLL purchase.

I suspect the dept letter was not in order - perhaps not signed by chief or someone delegated by chief.

I'm not sure of exact sequence but many LA-area LEOs are buying OLL rifles. They get letter from dept, file for LE AW reg and then once the reg is done, they drop the BB device or MMG grip.

I also have reports of quite a few LA-area cops who are dropping the BB or MM grip the moment they leave the FFL (i.e, in parking lot, in patrol car).

Please PM me the location of said parking lot. I'd like to pick up the "litter" there.