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Geodetic
01-30-2009, 11:37 PM
It seems to me one advantage we have now is the internet. Back in '94 most people did not have internet access and the availability of discussion as in message boards like this to raise awareness of the anti-freedom thugs. One would hope this would enable us to raise awareness of our 2nd amendment freedoms and the ability to counteract additional intrusions onto our god given rights. I'm sure this will be tested in the coming years.

dreyna14
01-30-2009, 11:54 PM
The opposition has the same tools as we do. The only real difference is that we have truth behind us. However, that hasn't been of much help in the past.

devildog999
01-31-2009, 12:07 AM
The opposition has the same tools as we do. The only real difference is that we have truth behind us. However, that hasn't been of much help in the past.

True, but we pro gun kind do still outnumber antis 3 to 1. So it still works more in our advantage. (I say 3 to 1 because it seems that whenever there is some poll about gun control, it is always 66% for the pro gun fold and 33% for the anti gun folk)

nick
01-31-2009, 12:10 AM
True, but we pro gun kind do still outnumber antis 3 to 1. So it still works more in our advantage. (I say 3 to 1 because it seems that whenever there is some poll about gun control, it is always 66% for the pro gun fold and 33% for the anti gun folk)

That's 2 to 1.

dreyna14
01-31-2009, 12:20 AM
True, but we pro gun kind do still outnumber antis 3 to 1. So it still works more in our advantage. (I say 2 to 1 because it seems that whenever there is some poll about gun control, it is always 66% for the pro gun fold and 33% for the anti gun folk)

It's always been like that, but it still hasn't helped the pro 2nd folks in the past. The antis don't care about the people when it comes to firearms just their own flawed, misguided agenda. The only tool available to us that we didn't have before is Heller but they'll still try to spin that around in some way because of certain aspects of the opinion. Even with Heller, I don't see the RKBA lasting any more than a couple more decades. I feel that my children might not be able to enjoy a day at the range like we can.

lioneaglegriffin
01-31-2009, 12:31 AM
That's 2 to 1.


math nazi. :D

yellowfin
01-31-2009, 12:35 AM
The biggest problem we have with the antis is that they apparently have nothing better to do. We have to work, be responsible with families and what not and give spare time we have afterwards to fight them whereas it seems they can be everywhere at once. It gives me a profound and deep hate for them that they contribute absolutely zero to society while getting a paycheck for screwing us out of what we want to do with our money after we've worked, paid taxes, and covered the bills.

lioneaglegriffin
01-31-2009, 12:46 AM
The biggest problem we have with the antis is that they apparently have nothing better to do. We have to work, be responsible with families and what not and give spare time we have afterwards to fight them whereas it seems they can be everywhere at once. It gives me a profound and deep hate for them that they contribute absolutely zero to society while getting a paycheck for screwing us out of what we want to do with our money after we've worked, paid taxes, and covered the bills.

where does this come from that liberals don't work and conservatives have 9-5 jobs?

jamesob
01-31-2009, 12:49 AM
don't forget that obama drove home his message via the internet.

E Pluribus Unum
01-31-2009, 2:08 AM
I was on the internet in 1992... I was dgms93b@prodigy.net

bwiese
01-31-2009, 9:32 AM
where does this come from that liberals
don't work and conservatives have 9-5 jobs?

A significant fraction have gov't/social service jobs where performance is not measurable.

Folks in the private sector have to perform or they won't eat.

DDT
01-31-2009, 9:38 AM
where does this come from that liberals don't work and conservatives have 9-5 jobs?

I think it comes from a number of places.

As bweise stated liberals are overrepresented in the population of civil service folks.

Liberals are even more overrepresented in the ranks of the unemployed and in the student population.

It also comes from direct observation. Even in instances where the fevers run relatively high the left is almost always overrepresented by protesters than the right when compared to polling data. Clearly they have less pressure to be somewhere specific between 9-5 than those on the right. So, either they simply don't bother going to their 9-5 jobs or they (as a population) are less likely to have 9-5 jobs. The first option will greatly increase the likelihood of the second.

Kid Stanislaus
01-31-2009, 10:11 AM
The biggest problem we have with the antis is that they apparently have nothing better to do.


No. A much bigger problem is they have the media on their side and every time one of them gets in front of a TV camera he/she will open mouth and let fly with the biggest line of BS imagineable, and we have no way to counter it because our point of view is always given the cold shoulder.

radioburning
01-31-2009, 10:31 AM
Well, I for one am a lot more in the loop as far knowing what's going on with RKBA. Back in the early 90's, when I first started buying guns, I didn't even know there was an AWB looming in the not too distant future. I didn't pay attention to gun rights because I didn't know how much they were under attack. I didn't grow up in a family that had guns around. At the time I wasn't an NRA member. I didn't have any friends into guns at all. In fact I think I lost some friends for not being the perfect example of the SoCal liberal. I didn't even know about the AWB until right after it passed. I think the internet is going to work in our favor this time.

Hans Gruber
01-31-2009, 10:39 AM
We'll turn the liberal rallying cry against them. "Remember Katrina!"

When social order is destroyed (even temporarily), I need the right tools in order to protect myself, my family and my neighbors.

hoffmang
01-31-2009, 10:44 AM
The internet enables those who a central authority wants to control and not the central authority. The Army of Davids, now that there is the internet, are very hard to manage because all the tools big government used to use against people don't work nearly as well.

On balance the internet clearly helps us more than the other side.

Don't conflate Obama supporters with anti-gunners. It's like conflating Republicans with pro-gun supporters. Just look at GWB's Solicitor General, Lundgren, the RHINOs in Orange County, etc.

Most of the most internet savvy Obama supporters are at worst neutral on the gun issue. They appreciate and don't fear technology at the same rate as the boomer generation.

-Gene

74man
01-31-2009, 10:57 AM
IMO, as long as we keep electing Anti-gun Politicians into office we are going to have to fight for RKBA and to keep our 2nd Amendment. I don't like some of the politicians that I have voted for but I make it a point to not vote for Anti-gun Politicians. Anyone who wants to keep our 2nd amendment RIGHTS better FIGHT all ANTI-GUN LEGISLATION and any politicians who indorse them, and Support all 2nd Amendment freedom fighting organizations. All NRA members shoud make it known that us members are tired of allowing little rights changes for a little more. THE BILL OF RIGHTS ARE OURS. We will eventually have to Unite and Fight to keep them. Just MY OPINION.

SwissFluCase
01-31-2009, 11:05 AM
The internet enables those who a central authority wants to control and not the central authority. The Army of Davids, now that there is the internet, are very hard to manage because all the tools big government used to use against people don't work nearly as well.

On balance the internet clearly helps us more than the other side.

Don't conflate Obama supporters with anti-gunners. It's like conflating Republicans with pro-gun supporters. Just look at GWB's Solicitor General, Lundgren, the RHINOs in Orange County, etc.

Most of the most internet savvy Obama supporters are at worst neutral on the gun issue. They appreciate and don't fear technology at the same rate as the boomer generation.

-Gene

I support Internet freedom as strongly as I the 2A. Most of my colleagues who are involved in information technology support RKBA, and they are usually liberal. I clearly remember the encryption wars during the Clinton administration. The Internet is to free speech as the AW is to RKBA.

I strongly believe that the Internet has changed the tide of the debate strongly in our favor. Beware of push polls, guys. How do you think people are going to vote when the poll is attached to a story about an awful shooting incident? How come there is never a poll attached to a story about a successful home defense using a firearm?

Regards,


SwissFluCase

laguns
01-31-2009, 11:40 AM
No. A much bigger problem is they have the media on their side....

True, they have most of the media on their side, but remember that the "media" is just a business, as such they can't ignore their clients wishes. Last I checked FOX news was number one.

titan
01-31-2009, 11:53 AM
I think it will really help with awareness. I was at gun purchasing age back before the 89 RR ACT was passed here in CA. I was in college and could not afford everything I wanted. I learned alot, and in 92-Sept 94 I was picking up whatever I could find. I was not "on-line" until mid 1998. The information available on the internet has certainly helped everyone and will help this time also.

DDT
01-31-2009, 2:35 PM
Clearly the best approach is to co-opt the Obama supporters who are now looking for a next new thing. Just tell them it's to protect the rights of citizens as defined in the Second Amendment to the constitution, most won't bother reading the amendment and will sign on. I hear they are looking for a new cause.

http://www.theonion.com/content/video/obama_win_causes_obsessive

yellowfin
01-31-2009, 7:07 PM
Indeed that is a huge problem, and one I recommend the RKBA orgs try fixing by funding scholarships and internships for journalism students. For every hundred thousand bucks spent fighting a court case you could have ten editors or reporters which would last longer and have at least as much or more impact. No. A much bigger problem is they have the media on their side and every time one of them gets in front of a TV camera he/she will open mouth and let fly with the biggest line of BS imagineable, and we have no way to counter it because our point of view is always given the cold shoulder.

berto
01-31-2009, 7:44 PM
True, but we pro gun kind do still outnumber antis 3 to 1. So it still works more in our advantage. (I say 3 to 1 because it seems that whenever there is some poll about gun control, it is always 66% for the pro gun fold and 33% for the anti gun folk)

Don't put too much faith in polls, especially the internet variety.

Gator Monroe
01-31-2009, 7:50 PM
Libertarian & Dem/lib Secular Progressive Firearms owners must be convinced that 2A is more important than Choice and more GAY rights, and all the other secular progressive democrat social agenda goals and they must hold their nose and vote PRO 2A candidates into office (Especially here in California)

hoffmang
01-31-2009, 7:55 PM
Libertarian & Dem/lib Secular Progressive Firearms owners must be convinced that 2A is more important than Choice and more GAY rights, and all the other secular progressive democrat social agenda goals and they must hold their nose and vote PRO 2A candidates into office (Especially here in California)

Why would you try to convince this libertarian that any right is more important than another. That's the exact thinking the anti gun movement uses.

Rights are rights. That you don't like them makes you little better than Sarah Brady.

-Gene

tankerman
01-31-2009, 7:58 PM
A significant fraction have gov't/social service jobs where performance is not measurable.

Folks in the private sector have to perform or they won't eat.Unless you work GM and are a union member.

Gator Monroe
01-31-2009, 8:06 PM
Why would you try to convince this libertarian that any right is more important than another. That's the exact thinking the anti gun movement uses.

Rights are rights. That you don't like them makes you little better than Sarah Brady.

-Gene

Gay Rights & Choice other Secular progressive items on the Lib Dem Agenda are Secure and unchallenged but 2A is in the crosshairs ...

DedEye
01-31-2009, 8:13 PM
Gay Rights & Choice other Secular progressive items on the Lib Dem Agenda are Secure and unchallenged but 2A is in the crosshairs ...

Stop setting the issues up as being mutually exclusive dammit :rolleyes:!

If you want to attract new allies, you don't alienate them. I know from firsthand testimonials of Calgunners who have been driven away from this site from this kind of bullcrap.

hoffmang
01-31-2009, 8:15 PM
Gay Rights & Choice other Secular progressive items on the Lib Dem Agenda are Secure and unchallenged but 2A is in the crosshairs ...

In fact a large part of those who voted for Obama voted "yes on 8."

Your argument might be more accurate if it reflected reality.

Let's please go back on topic.

-Gene

yellowfin
01-31-2009, 8:49 PM
Talk about frustrating, we can't get any credible candidates on the ballot who would repeal Social Slavery/security and put the US back on the gold standard. Gay issues are worthless by comparison.

If you can't keep government out of your wallet you can't expect them to keep out of your bedroom or holster.

X-NewYawker
01-31-2009, 8:52 PM
Too bad that 2:1 didn't vote for McCain. We wouldn't be scare buying every semi-auto in existence.

G17GUY
01-31-2009, 9:46 PM
I was on the internet in 1992... I was dgms93b@prodigy.net

really credit card generator and all heh?

lioneaglegriffin
01-31-2009, 10:03 PM
I think it comes from a number of places.

As bweise stated liberals are overrepresented in the population of civil service folks.

Liberals are even more overrepresented in the ranks of the unemployed and in the student population.

It also comes from direct observation. Even in instances where the fevers run relatively high the left is almost always overrepresented by protesters than the right when compared to polling data. Clearly they have less pressure to be somewhere specific between 9-5 than those on the right. So, either they simply don't bother going to their 9-5 jobs or they (as a population) are less likely to have 9-5 jobs. The first option will greatly increase the likelihood of the second.

i must be closet lib because i work for the DHS and im a college student.

DDT
01-31-2009, 10:05 PM
i must be closet lib because i work for the DHS and im a college student.

Not at all. But there is a higher than average probability that you work with and attend school with a lot of them.

radioburning
02-01-2009, 8:54 AM
Too bad that 2:1 didn't vote for McCain. We wouldn't be scare buying every semi-auto in existence.

I would venture to guess that amount of pro-gunners who didn't vote for McCain is pretty small.

bulgron
02-01-2009, 9:24 AM
Clearly the best approach is to co-opt the Obama supporters who are now looking for a next new thing. Just tell them it's to protect the rights of citizens as defined in the Second Amendment to the constitution, most won't bother reading the amendment and will sign on. I hear they are looking for a new cause.

http://www.theonion.com/content/video/obama_win_causes_obsessive

Please don't quote anything from The Onion. That's a satire site. Nothing on it is real, and 99% of the people who go there know it too. Pretty much it's deliberately meant to be over the top. People who go there, go for the laughs.

Every once in a while someone who isn't familiar with that site gets confused, so I thought I worth mentioning.

DDT
02-01-2009, 10:25 PM
That's a satire site. Nothing on it is real, and 99% of the people who go there know it too.

Satire would be the point. I really hope that you are underestimating the 99%. I can't believe anyone on this board would be gullible or dumb enough to think the site was serious.