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View Full Version : PK has a GG&G 14.5 1/7 upper in stock on their site...


missiontrails
01-30-2009, 7:34 PM
If they show it, they have it. $699

nikonuser
01-31-2009, 1:11 PM
I think this is the upper that PK Rifles are selling: http://www.gggaz.com/index.php?id=35&parents=38,39

Are these uppers any good? I guess they are available for those wanting a upper.

missiontrails
01-31-2009, 1:23 PM
High quality, I bought my 16" from PK. If you order from them, they always ship the next day. Sabre Defense makes the major upper components for GG&G uppers, and the sight systems and handguard components are GG&G.

technique
01-31-2009, 1:32 PM
I think this is the upper that PK Rifles are selling: http://www.gggaz.com/index.php?id=35&parents=38,39

Are these uppers any good? I guess they are available for those wanting a upper.

On that GG&G site they are listed at $780:confused: Even at $699:confused:

No way I would spend that...No way!!!!!! Not for that upper. You can do better for better.

missiontrails
01-31-2009, 2:59 PM
Technique, you are kidding right? Have you handled one of these in person? The sights are top notch, they would cost you $220 alone, the handguard is machined nice with sequential laser-etched T-markings starting at the back of the upper reciever flat-top and all the way to the front of the handguard top rail, the hand guard comes with a bag of more rails, tools and covers to set up different configs, 1/7 twist, chrome bore, Extended feed ramps, a Vortex flash hidder, and a nice as hell finish. Show me a better one for $695. This upper has "good value" written all over it.

technique
01-31-2009, 3:27 PM
Technique, you are kidding right? Have you handled one of these in person? The sights are top notch, they would cost you $220 alone, the handguard is machined nice with T-marks (as well as on the top of reciever), the hand guard comes with a bag of more rails, tools and covers to set up different configs, 1/7 twist, chrome bore, Extended feed ramps, a Vortex flash bidder, and a nice as hell finish. Show me a better one for $695. This upper has "good value" written all over it.


No I'm not kidding. Yes I have handled plenty.

Every upper I have falls in that price range. Mine are Colt and LMT, all 1/7.
IMHO I don't see the "good value", again IMHO the rail and sights are just POS. I would much rather go for a Stag for less (they come with sights) and pay more later for a quality rail rather than pay $695-$780 for something that LOOKS cool, but isn't quality.

missiontrails
01-31-2009, 3:45 PM
Hmmmm, that rail is solid, no shortcomings, the covers actually screw on, and you have 12,3,6,9 o'clock rails, with more included that you can add at 45 degrees (sells for $200 by itself). I think you might be stuck in brand name favorites. Please share one shortcoming of the sights- again, great solid build quality IMO.

THE 0NE
01-31-2009, 7:53 PM
buy stag way more worth the money!!!!

Timberland
01-31-2009, 9:54 PM
No BCG for that price?

technique
01-31-2009, 10:05 PM
No BCG for that price?

no BCG...thats right. All the way down at the bottom it says...

Fully Assembled And Headspaced, Ready For Your Bolt Group And Lower Receiver

missiontrails
02-01-2009, 7:30 AM
Ok, you guys win, the GG&G upper is a total piece of crap, which means that Sabre defense is also crap, because they provide the receiver and barrel to GG&G. And as far as GG&G's stuff, well, I guess it should be in the Airsoft catalog.

http://members.cox.net/dehlers/Gun1.jpg
http://members.cox.net/dehlers/GG&G3.jpg

hawk81
02-01-2009, 8:47 AM
PK firearms is a good company to deal with.

mark2203
02-01-2009, 9:28 AM
PK firearms is a good company to deal with.

I agree. I bought my upper from them and it arrived in a few days, although it's when they actually had a selection to choose from.

spdrcr
02-01-2009, 10:21 AM
Ok, you guys win, the GG&G upper is a total piece of crap, which means that Sabre defense is also crap, because they provide the receiver and barrel to GG&G. And as far as GG&G's stuff, well, I guess it should be in the Airsoft catalog.

I believe the only points of contention were the rails and sights - that parts that are GG&G specific.

If you have one and are happy with it then that is all that matters. Everyone is going to have their own preference and they won't all be the same as yours.

missiontrails
02-01-2009, 11:06 AM
I never said that GG&G was my preference, only bought it because it was the only upper I could get at the time. The sights are as good as any I have played with, and there are many decent sights out there. As far as the rail goes, I am not sure how you can make a higher quality product than this GG&G, and there are many others out there that are of the same quality, just that some "Special names" are way over priced. So, for $695 (delivered in 3 days from the time you click "checkout"), without a BCG, please point me in the direction of another upper that offers better value at TODAYS prices. Good luck with that.

radioburning
02-01-2009, 11:31 AM
I thought "chrome-moly" and "hard chrome lined" were two different things? I could be wrong.

missiontrails
02-01-2009, 12:27 PM
GG&G/Sabre Defense barrels are Hard chrome lined.

missiontrails
02-01-2009, 2:54 PM
For those of you who think $695 too much, check this out:

http://gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=121615792

NICE ARMOR ALL JOB

technique
02-01-2009, 3:32 PM
Ok, you guys win, the GG&G upper is a total piece of crap, which means that Sabre defense is also crap, because they provide the receiver and barrel to GG&G. And as far as GG&G's stuff, well, I guess it should be in the Airsoft catalog.

http://members.cox.net/dehlers/Gun1.jpg
http://members.cox.net/dehlers/GG&G3.jpg


Well...

From that rifle...the only parts of any interest to me would be.

Buttstock
Stripped lower
Charging handle
Maybe the fancy shmancy BCG (however a standard one is just as good)

thats about it.

Like I said $695 for a lower end upper w/o a BCG is too much. Stag sells the 2HT upper with a samson mfg rail and BUIS and BCG for $714 retail..you can get it for cheaper from CG vendors. Its really a no brainer. Stag is a sister company to Colt..

Now what really makes sense about that rail system???? To me, nothing!! The point of having rail covers is to keep your rail protected until you rip the cover off to slap on accessories....who really designs a rail cover that requires two screws to remove....a company with horrid design and ergonomic sense, thats who.

Now this is all just my opinion mind you..

For serious shooters reading this, stay away from companies GG&G and CAA until they start building serious products for serious shooters.

If you just go to range and plink and you want to look cool, by all means maybe these companies are for you...

there is no Value in slapping your crappy products on a Saber upper and engraving your name on on it....

PS....Saber ain't that great either.

missiontrails
02-01-2009, 3:53 PM
I would have considered a Stag, but i'm more interested in shooting than waiting 6 months to get one. Stag is just a name that you can't have right now, so it does nobody any good talking about them as if they are a viable option at this time in the game. And Technique, you have made NO worthwhile points, AT ALL, except for the fact that you like STAG, great. I was just trying to point out to Calguners that there was a decent upper available out there that can be had right now, and not 4-6 months from now. I was also speaking from a standpoint of having owned one of these (you have not). I have a CMMG Midlength on order, and I will share my thoughts on that one when I get it, at which time you will gladly contribute how superior Stags are all over again. So, why don't you take your Stag love affair somewhere else, and find something worthwhile that you can contribute. You have NEVER informed all of us where GG&G products fall short. Everyone who has read this is STILL waiting for your answer.

5150Marcelo
02-02-2009, 8:04 AM
I want some frijoles charros... like RIGHT now.
Seriously.

shark92651
02-02-2009, 8:46 AM
Now what really makes sense about that rail system???? To me, nothing!! The point of having rail covers is to keep your rail protected until you rip the cover off to slap on accessories....who really designs a rail cover that requires two screws to remove....a company with horrid design and ergonomic sense, thats who.

The GG&G rail system may not be for everyone but I don't think the quality of it should be questioned merely because it uses bolts to hold on the plastic panels. The reason it uses bolts is because it is NOT a rail "cover", it is a plastic rail panel that bolts on in place of the rail - this keeps the width down.

chuck762
02-02-2009, 9:11 AM
Well...

From that rifle...the only parts of any interest to me would be.

Buttstock
Stripped lower
Charging handle
Maybe the fancy shmancy BCG (however a standard one is just as good)

thats about it.

Like I said $695 for a lower end upper w/o a BCG is too much. Stag sells the 2HT upper with a samson mfg rail and BUIS and BCG for $714 retail..you can get it for cheaper from CG vendors. Its really a no brainer. Stag is a sister company to Colt..

Now what really makes sense about that rail system???? To me, nothing!! The point of having rail covers is to keep your rail protected until you rip the cover off to slap on accessories....who really designs a rail cover that requires two screws to remove....a company with horrid design and ergonomic sense, thats who.

Now this is all just my opinion mind you..

For serious shooters reading this, stay away from companies GG&G and CAA until they start building serious products for serious shooters.

If you just go to range and plink and you want to look cool, by all means maybe these companies are for you...

there is no Value in slapping your crappy products on a Saber upper and engraving your name on on it....

PS....Saber ain't that great either.

Wow, Where do you come up with your info? Sabre ain't that great? Good enough to make barrels for several military weapons.

GGG has been making quality parts for years. They are not low quality parts like CAA makes. So how much of a "serious shooter" are you? Do you carry and use an AR or M16 variant for a living? I hope so otherwise you fit into the plinker who likes to have cool toys judging by the big dollar names you like to drop. Yeah, the GGG rail isn't the latest and greatest item and it doesn't have the largest following but it does the job. Their sights work as well as other brands.

missiontrails
02-02-2009, 10:05 AM
Geeze, GG&G should hire me as a Rep....LOL

IceMan711
02-02-2009, 10:16 AM
Well...

From that rifle...the only parts of any interest to me would be.

Buttstock
Stripped lower
Charging handle
Maybe the fancy shmancy BCG (however a standard one is just as good)

thats about it.

Like I said $695 for a lower end upper w/o a BCG is too much. Stag sells the 2HT upper with a samson mfg rail and BUIS and BCG for $714 retail..you can get it for cheaper from CG vendors. Its really a no brainer. Stag is a sister company to Colt..

Now what really makes sense about that rail system???? To me, nothing!! The point of having rail covers is to keep your rail protected until you rip the cover off to slap on accessories....who really designs a rail cover that requires two screws to remove....a company with horrid design and ergonomic sense, thats who.

Now this is all just my opinion mind you..

For serious shooters reading this, stay away from companies GG&G and CAA until they start building serious products for serious shooters.

If you just go to range and plink and you want to look cool, by all means maybe these companies are for you...

there is no Value in slapping your crappy products on a Saber upper and engraving your name on on it....

PS....Saber ain't that great either.

Hmm.....yeah......

Pretty much wrong on all accounts.

TZL
02-02-2009, 11:06 AM
Saber defense?...reading on ARF.com leads me to believe that GG&G upper reciever and barrel are LMT

http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=118&t=405939

"Talked to GG&G the other day. LMT barrels and J&T BCG"

"bbl and upper are LMT and the rest is GG&G."

technique
02-02-2009, 11:58 AM
hey thats my opinion..like I repeated over and over...I THINK GG&G IS CRAP.

And from the link above, It looks like the OP didn't even know what he was buying.

technique
02-02-2009, 12:13 PM
Wow, Where do you come up with your info? Sabre ain't that great? Good enough to make barrels for several military weapons.
GGG has been making quality parts for years. They are not low quality parts like CAA makes. So how much of a "serious shooter" are you? Do you carry and use an AR or M16 variant for a living? I hope so otherwise you fit into the plinker who likes to have cool toys judging by the big dollar names you like to drop. Yeah, the GGG rail isn't the latest and greatest item and it doesn't have the largest following but it does the job. Their sights work as well as other brands.

The Military buys whats at a good price.. and Saber makes barrels for their larger weapons.
I like their target barrels, but thats not whats pictured and not what the topic is.

Yes, I have the luxury of not working for anyone one but myself. I fire my weapons daily. I build all of my uppers from parts and I make my own lowers from 80%, I own 1 Noveske lower and thats it. My weapons are dirty and used and abused...I haven't been to a range in almost a year...I hate shooting stationary. I have learned not to buy junk..its a waist of money. I put my opinion out there so that N00Bs don't go and buy the first thing available because of a buying frenzy crisis. Put thought into what you get.
You don't want to buy twice.

Addax
02-02-2009, 2:47 PM
GG&G makes some excellent BUIS and small parts, but I am not a huge fan of their rail, and $780 for an upper without a BCG is a bit too much for me.

Sabre Defence makes Excellent Products. They are a US Military Contractor for the M16 Rifle and they are going to go after the M4 contract soon.

Sabre also mfg. the .50 Cal. and 7.62 minigun barrels for the US Military and International Military customers.

Plus, many do not know this, but they mfg. some rifles and uppers for some very well known US Firearms companies that are extremely popular with the LE and Military customers....

I tested their M4 carbine barrels against LMT and Noveske for my Elite Series GPU's and I decided to go with Sabre.

All 3 were very accurate and performed equally, but Sabre edged out the other two since they could produce a very high quality (Mil-B-11595) Machine Gun rated CMV M4 and M5 (mid-length) barrels for me at a lower price vs. LMT and Noveske, and they have been very accurate with their production and shipping ETA's to me vs. LMT and Noveske.

I am not bad mouthing LMT or Noveske guys, they make Excellent Barrels and Uppers, but when I can get a barrel that is equal in performance, accuracy and with better pricing and availability from Sabre, I am going with Sabre.

I just had a World Champion 3 Gun Shooter test a couple of Sabre Defence Barrels and he loved them so much, he is now going to use them on 2 of his competition AR's.

chuck762
02-03-2009, 6:16 PM
The Military buys whats at a good price.. and Saber makes barrels for their larger weapons.
I like their target barrels, but thats not whats pictured and not what the topic is.

Yes, I have the luxury of not working for anyone one but myself. I fire my weapons daily. I build all of my uppers from parts and I make my own lowers from 80%, I own 1 Noveske lower and thats it. My weapons are dirty and used and abused...I haven't been to a range in almost a year...I hate shooting stationary. I have learned not to buy junk..its a waist of money. I put my opinion out there so that N00Bs don't go and buy the first thing available because of a buying frenzy crisis. Put thought into what you get.
You don't want to buy twice.

Mil spec is mil spec. If it meets mil spec then they are made to the same standards. Colt, LMT,Sabre and FN are all accepted by the military so they all meet the minimum standards. Saying Sabre ain't that great tells me you haven't a clue.
Pricing doesn't have a thing to do with what the military gets. Most is made by the lowest bidder but they rarely get charged that way.
I don't always place a lot of faith in mil spec anyway, not after having experience with items they issue.

Shooting every day still doesn't make you a "serious shooter" as you call it. If you are just shooting (whether it is on a range, desert or forest) then you are still just plinking. And how hard can you be on them with 10 round mags anyway? I too find the range boring and only go to sight in. The rest it is in the desert where I can do a lot more than sit at a bench. Still I only do it for fun.

Just by tossing out high dollar names doesn't show you have any real world experience with said items. Have you ever actually used any GGG products? Not just looked at them and said "oh, those suck"? If you have what failed during your extensive testing? I mean you must have run them through the ringer with all your daily shooting.

I have used their front and rear sights along a couple of their optics mounts. Works well and has held up. But then again the most punishment I have shown it is when I dropped one of my rifles and the sight didn't fall off or loose zero.

While I agree the post obama pricing is outrageous the uppers are far from junk. If so called NOOB didn't pay top dollar for one then they would have an AR upper that did all they could ask from it.

gunsmithcats
02-03-2009, 6:32 PM
Hey don't doubt the quality of saber. As mentioned previously, yes they won the m16 contract. And they make those sexy stellite lined m2 barrels. And their AR barrels are excellent quality. Currently buidling an SPR upper that I'm thinking about taking with me to afghanistan. Yes, i trust em that much. They're quality control is a lot better IMO compared to other companies. Never heard of anyone complaining about saber, whereas I find some of my buddies with STAgs who have to send their upper back due to issues.
I've seen some bubbas out in Iraq with customized LMT uppers, never thought twice about it. Noveske, well don't have any experience with them so I can't give any input.

Anyway, just my 2 cents.

USMC Tanker
02-03-2009, 6:50 PM
http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a246/dcarter_usmc/Weapons/DSC02494.jpg

My GG&G upper works for me...I don't give two sh*ts about what the hottest thing at arfcom is this week or what the gun snobs are drooling over at SHOT. I bought my GG&G because it fits my needs. If it fits your needs, buy it, use it, abuse it, shoot it! Who cares what some internet "serious shooter" says.

I've used weapons in some pretty horrific conditions. I wouldn't feel uncomfortable using my GG&G in those conditions.

Mines a trooper.

technique
02-03-2009, 6:58 PM
Mil spec is mil spec. If it meets mil spec then they are made to the same standards. Colt, LMT,Sabre and FN are all accepted by the military so they all meet the minimum standards. Saying Sabre ain't that great tells me you haven't a clue.
Pricing doesn't have a thing to do with what the military gets. Most is made by the lowest bidder but they rarely get charged that way.
I don't always place a lot of faith in mil spec anyway, not after having experience with items they issue.

Shooting every day still doesn't make you a "serious shooter" as you call it. If you are just shooting (whether it is on a range, desert or forest) then you are still just plinking. And how hard can you be on them with 10 round mags anyway? I too find the range boring and only go to sight in. The rest it is in the desert where I can do a lot more than sit at a bench. Still I only do it for fun.

Just by tossing out high dollar names doesn't show you have any real world experience with said items. Have you ever actually used any GGG products? Not just looked at them and said "oh, those suck"? If you have what failed during your extensive testing? I mean you must have run them through the ringer with all your daily shooting.

I have used their front and rear sights along a couple of their optics mounts. Works well and has held up. But then again the most punishment I have shown it is when I dropped one of my rifles and the sight didn't fall off or loose zero.

While I agree the post obama pricing is outrageous the uppers are far from junk. If so called NOOB didn't pay top dollar for one then they would have an AR upper that did all they could ask from it.



It has nothing to do with high dollar names. Hell Stag isn't high dollar. $780 w/o BGC and Junk accessories is high dollar and your not getting jack for you money...


Say that is a saber or lmt....a LMT w/o rail, sights and BCG is $440....so with this great offer above :rolleyes: I get those great GG&G accessories....for $780

I would rather have an AK


If the upper was so great...why has the OP been trying to sell it for the past week or so? and if it hasn't sold in CG in over a week....well


opinions are like A-holes everyones got one...I'm outta this thread.

USMC Tanker
02-03-2009, 7:11 PM
You keep on using the work "junk" yet can't provide any sort of legitimate observations.

The sights are great...solid. They shoot great.

I dig the modularity of the rail system. The AR is such a popular weapon due to it's flexibility and modularity. This rail system embodies that...I can set up my rail sections as I see fit. I've even got the option of an off-set mount included (saves you $90 right there). Out of the box, you can mount a component at all 12 clock positions. Show me another rail system with that option.

USMC Tanker
02-03-2009, 7:12 PM
BTW, you didn't even provide an answer to the paragraph you quoted in bold.

Way to go champ. You must be in politics.

missiontrails
02-03-2009, 7:24 PM
I called out TECHNIQUE on his tactical Consumer Reports ratings twice in this thread already, and this guy can't give one drop of useful information.

TZL
02-03-2009, 10:56 PM
If the upper was so great...why has the OP been trying to sell it for the past week or so? and if it hasn't sold in CG in over a week....well

I do believe it sold, its marked SPF

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=146636

818gtiguy
02-04-2009, 12:37 AM
:boxing_smiley:

missiontrails
02-04-2009, 6:30 AM
Here is why I sold it.... I wanted to build a more simplified rifle. Don't need Chrome National Match BCG, don't want railed handguards, don't need forward vertical grip, don't need optic. The best thing to do was to sell that nice unit together, not part it out. I just built a S&W lower with DPMS LPK, LMT 16" standard upper, a standard BCG, and a 6 position stock. Much less investment, just as much fun to shoot.