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View Full Version : Driving with guns in the car (in cali)


J.A.G.
01-30-2009, 5:33 PM
What's the deal? obviously not loaded.

I'll give you a scenario.

Today, i drove to the range. In my back seat was all my ammo. In the trunk was my range bag. In my range bag I had my glock with a trigger lock on it. Also in the range bag was my 1911 in its hard case with a lock on the hard case. on top of that, i locked the range bag.

Do i need to have the firearms locked in some way (trigger locks, cases locked, etc.) or can i just have them in my range bag? if they are in the trunk, and there is no ammo... again, do i need them "locked up"?

Thanks for the help.

Librarian
01-30-2009, 5:35 PM
See link,

http://wiki.calgunsfoundation.org/index.php/Transporting

jismay
01-30-2009, 5:37 PM
For handguns:
Unloaded and in a locked case - your trunk counts as a locked case in almost all cars. Ammunition and loaded magazines MAY be in the case with the firearm.

For longarms (rifles/shotguns):
Unloaded, there is no requirement for any case locked or not.

In point of fact, it is perfectly legal to have an unloaded & unconcealed handgun on the seat next to you & a loaded magazine sitting next to it, but then you run across the same problems as the unloaded open carry people (no being within 1000ft of a school, etc.

Casual Observer
01-30-2009, 5:47 PM
For handguns:
Unloaded and in a locked case - your trunk counts as a locked case in almost all cars. Ammunition and loaded magazines MAY be in the case with the firearm.

For longarms (rifles/shotguns):
Unloaded, there is no requirement for any case locked or not.

In point of fact, it is perfectly legal to have an unloaded & unconcealed handgun on the seat next to you & a loaded magazine sitting next to it, but then you run across the same problems as the unloaded open carry people (no being within 1000ft of a school, etc.

Additional:

Handgun: your glove box and center console are NOT considered a locked container (obviously). Also, there's no requirements on what kind of locked container it must be- soft or hard with any kind of lock will work.

Also, a loaded magazine can not be in the firearm.

Long guns: unloaded. Locked up if it's a registered AW or within 1000' of a school.

1911_Mitch
01-30-2009, 5:56 PM
Additional:

Handgun: your glove box and center console are NOT considered a locked container (obviously). Also, there's no requirements on what kind of locked container it must be- soft or hard with any kind of lock will work.

Also, a loaded magazine can not be in the firearm.

Long guns: unloaded. Locked up if it's a registered AW or within 1000' of a school.



Not necessarily true. IIRC, there is a requirement for the container to be fully enclosed and to be 'reasonably secure'.

bwiese
01-30-2009, 6:23 PM
Not necessarily true. IIRC, there is a requirement for the container to be fully enclosed and to be 'reasonably secure'.

Show us anywhere it says that in the PC.

That means show us a criminal violation for a handgun stored in a 'weak' container.

A gun rug with locked zippers serves as a locked container.

Librarian
01-30-2009, 7:15 PM
Not necessarily true. IIRC, there is a requirement for the container to be fully enclosed and to be 'reasonably secure'.

Regrettably you recall incorrectly.

The PC is 12026.1
(c) As used in this section, "locked container" means a secure
container which is fully enclosed and locked by a padlock, key
lock, combination lock, or similar locking device.
and repeated in 12026.2
(d) As used in this section, "locked container" means a secure
container which is fully enclosed and locked by a padlock, keylock,
combination lock, or similar locking device. The term "locked
container" does not include the utility or glove compartment of a
motor vehicle.
There's just no definition of 'secure' in the PC.

My own personal rule is 'if it looks like a ten year old boy could defeat the container without tools or the key, it doesn't qualify as secure'.

sfpcservice
01-30-2009, 7:29 PM
I believe this means you can carry conceled and unlocked provided you are not loaded (12031) and stay within the limitations below:

12026.2. (a) Section 12025 does not apply to, or affect, any of the
following:

9) The transportation of a firearm by a person when going
directly to, or coming directly from, a target range, which holds a
regulatory or business license, for the purposes of practicing
shooting at targets with that firearm at that target range.

Please do correct me if I'm wrong, I wouldn't want to give bad information on this forum.

1911_Mitch
01-30-2009, 7:36 PM
Thank you Librarian. I meant no disrespect or to spread FUD, as I respect you both very much.

I think that the PC you quoted answers Bweise question. In my defense, I never said 'weak' container, I said 'reasonably secure'. I see the words right there in the PC, and followed up by Librarians own 'personal rule'. The words in the PC are "...a secure container which is fully enclosed and locked...".

It will all come down to the police officers interpretation of your actions and the DA's willingness to support/follow through with a charge.

tombinghamthegreat
01-30-2009, 7:40 PM
Looks like most of the people covered the rules. You can have a handgun either in plain sight/open carry the gun unloaded or have it in a locked container. You can also have the ammo/gun in the same container or right next to each other, just do not have the gun loaded...of course if you need it for defense then do what is needed and that would be legal. Also long guns you can open carry, conceal whatever as long as you are not within 1000 feet of a k-12 school, in that zone it would need to be in a locked container.

Also you can have a shotgun with shells in the saddle since it is not in a pisition to be fired(people vs clark). There are threads regarding "trunk guns" or "guitar parties". If you do not want to draw attention there would be nothing illegal to put a CA legal AK in a guitar case with a bunch of mags as long as you are not in a probited area(near school zones you could just put a cheap lock on the case...)

1911su16b870
01-30-2009, 7:46 PM
There are those on this forum that are very militant about the statements "must be transported in a locked container" because you may transport a unloaded concealable firearm (Unloaded Open Carry UOC) in plain view (not concealed or partially concealed in any way) in your automobile as long as you adhear to the other requirements such as 1000-ft away from school, day care facility, or other areas where municipal or county law prohibits it etc.

Every individual must make that choice for themselves, but otherwise a locked container is a good way to go, but not absolutely required.

Librarian
01-30-2009, 8:05 PM
I believe this means you can carry conceled and unlocked provided you are not loaded (12031) and stay within the limitations below:

12026.2. (a) Section 12025 does not apply to, or affect, any of the
following:

9) The transportation of a firearm by a person when going
directly to, or coming directly from, a target range, which holds a
regulatory or business license, for the purposes of practicing
shooting at targets with that firearm at that target range.

Please do correct me if I'm wrong, I wouldn't want to give bad information on this forum.

That's one of the things in (a). You just missed the part that follows: (b) In order for a firearm to be exempted under subdivision (a),
while being transported to or from a place, the firearm shall be
unloaded, kept in a locked container

Or, you could choose UNconcealed unloaded, and that would be OK, too, if a bit more complicated in some ways.

sfpcservice
01-30-2009, 9:24 PM
That's one of the things in (a). You just missed the part that follows:

Or, you could choose UNconcealed unloaded, and that would be OK, too, if a bit more complicated in some ways.


Thanks for pointing that out, you probably saved me some hassle down the road! Anyway, why do they have all of these exemptions that seem to be duplicative of the "locked container" section of 12026.1? Seems like I'm missing something here...

motorhead
01-31-2009, 2:58 PM
better safe than sorry, right? a small spotweld to the trunk lid. easily ground off when you reach the range. if you're really worried you can probably find a gun safe that'll fit in the trunk. oh, and transport the ammo in a separate vehicle.

TheBundo
01-31-2009, 3:53 PM
Thanks for pointing that out, you probably saved me some hassle down the road! Anyway, why do they have all of these exemptions that seem to be duplicative of the "locked container" section of 12026.1? Seems like I'm missing something here...

I agree. A lot of duplication on the exemptions. It always made me wonder if 12026.2 was limiting 12026.1

MudCamper
01-31-2009, 3:57 PM
I agree. A lot of duplication on the exemptions. It always made me wonder if 12026.2 was limiting 12026.1

12026.1 is an exemption to 12025 for traveling in vehicles. 12026.2 is not specific to vehicles (like walking) so I interpret it to mean just that. The limitations on locations in 12026.2 applies only to 12026.2, and not 12026.1.

sfpcservice
01-31-2009, 4:05 PM
12026.1 is an exemption to 12025 for traveling in vehicles. 12026.2 is not specific to vehicles (like walking) so I interpret it to mean just that. The limitations on locations in 12026.2 applies only to 12026.2, and not 12026.1.


I personally find most things from 12025 to about 12054 to be in clear violation of 2a. I can't wait until they can be challenged and knocked down like dominoes.

JB-Norcal
01-31-2009, 4:37 PM
Man, somedays I really hate being infringed upon. Just think how much more productive the world would be without all this extra crap.
If I unjustifiablly endanger someone, throw my arse in jail: otherwise leave me alone !!!
- rank off

eltee
01-31-2009, 5:49 PM
What's the opinion of the legality of using one of the metal pistol safes (one has the handprint outline to punch the combo, the other is a plain pushbutton lock) bolted into the underside of the dashboard within reach of the driver? It is secure (metal and bolted, plus somewhat hidden) and locked. Seem as if it meets the criteria above. You can open it without looking down, the door snaps open and you can grab and load very quickly.

J.A.G.
01-31-2009, 6:00 PM
So I was legal when I traveled yesterday? That's all I care about. My range bag was in the trunk. so if the trunk constitutes as a "locked container"... then I was good to go.

Thanks for the info guys.

Joe

MudCamper
01-31-2009, 7:00 PM
What's the opinion of the legality of using one of the metal pistol safes (one has the handprint outline to punch the combo, the other is a plain pushbutton lock) bolted into the underside of the dashboard within reach of the driver? It is secure (metal and bolted, plus somewhat hidden) and locked. Seem as if it meets the criteria above. You can open it without looking down, the door snaps open and you can grab and load very quickly.

Some here have argued that bolting it to the vehicle makes it a "utility" box and then a 12025 violation. Personally, I don't buy it, but opinions vary.

Casual Observer
01-31-2009, 7:14 PM
So I was legal when I traveled yesterday? That's all I care about. My range bag was in the trunk. so if the trunk constitutes as a "locked container"... then I was good to go.

Thanks for the info guys.

Joe

Yes. You were legal, provided the weapons were not loaded. :cool:

bigtoe416
01-31-2009, 8:07 PM
Unless you can conceal your rifle upon your person, there is no need to lock it up when you are within 1000' of a school. Section 626.9 reads:

626.9. (b) Any person who possesses a firearm in a place that the person
knows, or reasonably should know, is a school zone, as defined in
paragraph (1) of subdivision (e), unless it is with the written
permission of the school district superintendent, his or her
designee, or equivalent school authority, shall be punished as
specified in subdivision (f).
(c) Subdivision (b) does not apply to the possession of a firearm
under any of the following circumstances:
(2) When the firearm is an unloaded pistol, revolver, or other
firearm capable of being concealed on the person and is in a locked
container or within the locked trunk of a motor vehicle.
This section does not prohibit or limit the otherwise lawful
transportation of any other firearm, other than a pistol, revolver,
or other firearm capable of being concealed on the person, in
accordance with state law.


As you can see, the 1000' foot restriction doesn't apply to long guns or shotguns or artillery or whatever. Handguns and other smaller weapons would need to be locked up.

SimpleCountryActuary
01-31-2009, 8:19 PM
I believe that your rifle must be secured on a gun rack if you drive onto school grounds to drop your child off. Is this Federal Law? Anyway, I haven't found a gun rack for my 1985 SL yet.

Librarian
01-31-2009, 9:04 PM
what about carrying an unloaded handgun in an unlocked bag/container between vehicle parked on a public street/parking and shooting range or residence, legal?
No - not UNlocked and concealed. If concealed, must be locked.

Librarian
01-31-2009, 9:08 PM
I believe that your rifle must be secured on a gun rack if you drive onto school grounds to drop your child off. Is this Federal Law? Anyway, I haven't found a gun rack for my 1985 SL yet.

Right - 18 USC 922 (q) applies to firearms, not just handguns.
(2)
(A) It shall be unlawful for any individual knowingly to possess a firearm that has moved in or that otherwise affects interstate or foreign commerce at a place that the individual knows, or has reasonable cause to believe, is a school zone.
(B) Subparagraph (A) does not apply to the possession of a firearm—
(i) on private property not part of school grounds;
(ii) if the individual possessing the firearm is licensed to do so by the State ... ;
(iii) that is—
(I) not loaded; and
(II) in a locked container, or a locked firearms rack that is on a motor vehicle;
and note the definitions from 921 (25) The term “school zone” means—
(A) in, or on the grounds of, a public, parochial or private school; or
(B) within a distance of 1,000 feet from the grounds of a public, parochial or private school.
(26) The term “school” means a school which provides elementary or secondary education, as determined under State law.

N6ATF
01-31-2009, 10:53 PM
:mad::censored::beatdeadhorse5::dupe::xeno:

goober
01-31-2009, 11:00 PM
What's the opinion of the legality of using one of the metal pistol safes (one has the handprint outline to punch the combo, the other is a plain pushbutton lock) bolted into the underside of the dashboard within reach of the driver? It is secure (metal and bolted, plus somewhat hidden) and locked. Seem as if it meets the criteria above. You can open it without looking down, the door snaps open and you can grab and load very quickly.
thats what i use.
V-Line combo safe under the seat, 1911 in there w/ a loaded mag (not in gun).
pretty confident that that will be OK in the event of any ugliness or scrutiny.

TheBundo
01-31-2009, 11:36 PM
No - not UNlocked and concealed. If concealed, must be locked.

But if you un-conceal it between the house and car, it might be considered brandishing

Librarian
02-01-2009, 12:12 AM
But if you un-conceal it between the house and car, it might be considered brandishing
If you're worried about that, 'conceal' it in a secure container and lock it.

DedEye
02-01-2009, 12:18 AM
Yes. You were legal, provided the weapons were not loaded. :cool:

And if the trunk doesn't have an unlocked passthrough.

pullnshoot25
02-01-2009, 12:42 AM
Show us anywhere it says that in the PC.

That means show us a criminal violation for a handgun stored in a 'weak' container.

A gun rug with locked zippers serves as a locked container.

That's what I use! That or a range bag...

Tarn_Helm
02-01-2009, 3:12 PM
What's the deal? obviously not loaded.

I'll give you a scenario.

Today, i drove to the range. In my back seat was all my ammo. In the trunk was my range bag. In my range bag I had my glock with a trigger lock on it. Also in the range bag was my 1911 in its hard case with a lock on the hard case. on top of that, i locked the range bag.

Do i need to have the firearms locked in some way (trigger locks, cases locked, etc.) or can i just have them in my range bag? if they are in the trunk, and there is no ammo... again, do i need them "locked up"?

Thanks for the help.

What exactly is the problem?

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:D