PDA

View Full Version : DIY mag rebuild kits... current legal interpretation?


q2on
01-30-2009, 10:54 AM
Hey all,

What's the current legal status/interpretation of buying 30-round rebuilt kits and DIY assembly into 10-round magazines WITHOUT owning a pre-ban rifle or hi-cap magazines? I've heard that it's a very grey area and that the safest route is to buy 10/30 magazines pre-assembled by a FFL. From doing searches around here it seems that it's generally O.K., but many forum members advocating this DIY assembly generally seem to already own pre-ban rifles or magazines and thus would be in better shape if they were ever 'audited'.

Thanks in advance for your thoughts!

DedEye
01-30-2009, 11:04 AM
Hey all,

What's the current legal status/interpretation of buying 30-round rebuilt kits and DIY assembly into 10-round magazines WITHOUT owning a pre-ban rifle or hi-cap magazines? I've heard that it's a very grey area and that the safest route is to buy 10/30 magazines pre-assembled by a FFL. From doing searches around here it seems that it's generally O.K., but many forum members advocating this DIY assembly generally seem to already own pre-ban rifles or magazines and thus would be in better shape if they were ever 'audited'.

Thanks in advance for your thoughts!

It's legal.

Who do you think would be "auditing" you?

Make sure the magazine can only hold ten rounds, and that your modifications are PERMANENT.

q2on
01-30-2009, 11:08 AM
It's legal.

Who do you think would be "auditing" you?

Make sure the magazine can only hold ten rounds, and that your modifications are PERMANENT.

Is there a penal code related to this that I could research?

By audit I meant search and seizure by law enforcement, for whatever reason. I don't want to be in any very gray areas of the law!

DedEye
01-30-2009, 11:14 AM
Is there a penal code related to this that I could research?

By audit I meant search and seizure by law enforcement, for whatever reason. I don't want to be in any very gray areas of the law!

Read this (http://hoffmang.com/firearms/DOJ-large-cap-magazines-2005-11-10.pdf).

domokun
01-30-2009, 11:16 AM
See here as well: http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showpost.php?p=1590188&postcount=1

:xeno:

q2on
01-30-2009, 11:17 AM
What you linked makes me worry even more! There is lots of specific language stating that it's legal, provided that you intend to use them to repair a legally-obtained hi-cap magazine! There's nothing that states that it's legal to import high-cap magazine parts with NO intent of repairing a legal hi-cap magazine. There's also nothing that specifically says it's legal to import hi-cap magazines with the intent to assemble lo-cap magazines.

DedEye
01-30-2009, 11:21 AM
What you linked makes me worry even more! There is lots of specific language stating that it's legal, provided that you intend to use them to repair a legally-obtained hi-cap magazine! There's nothing that states that it's legal to import high-cap magazine parts with NO intent of repairing a legal hi-cap magazine. There's also nothing that specifically says it's legal to import hi-cap magazines with the intent to assemble lo-cap magazines.

Yeah, guess that letter doesn't specifically address making 10 round mags. In that case, consult the Penal Code section 12020 (c) (25):

As used in this section, "large-capacity magazine" means any ammunition feeding device with the capacity to accept more than 10 rounds, but shall not be construed to include any of the following:

(A) A feeding device that has been permanently altered so that it cannot accommodate more than 10 rounds.

jgraham15
01-30-2009, 11:31 AM
There's also nothing that specifically says it's legal to import hi-cap magazines with the intent to assemble lo-cap magazines.


That is completely ILLEGAL!!!!!!! You CAN NOT import a hi-cap magazine for any reason!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

grywlfbg
01-30-2009, 11:31 AM
There is no "constructive possession" prohibition as it pertains to hi-caps. It's only illegal to: manufacture, import, sell, lend, etc. Having the parts to make a high cap violate none of the above. As long as you permanently modify the mag body so it can only accept 10 rounds prior to assembling all the parts you have not manufactured a hi-cap, you have manufactured a 10-round mag which is completely legal.

jgraham15
01-30-2009, 11:33 AM
There is no "constructive possession" prohibition as it pertains to hi-caps. It's only illegal to: manufacture, import, sell, lend, etc. Having the parts to make a high cap violate none of the above. As long as you permanently modify the mag body so it can only accept 10 rounds prior to assembling all the parts you have not manufactured a hi-cap, you have manufactured a 10-round mag which is completely legal.


EXACTLY :thumbsup:

q2on
01-30-2009, 11:49 AM
That is completely ILLEGAL!!!!!!! You CAN NOT import a hi-cap magazine for any reason!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Sorry, I meant hi-cap magazine rebuild kits. However, I'm not even talking about 'importing', as in bringing across state lines. I'm really just wondering about purchasing from someone who already has those rebuild kits in their possession, with the intent of assembling a lo-cap magazine. Is this completely illegal?

DedEye
01-30-2009, 12:03 PM
Sorry, I meant hi-cap magazine rebuild kits. However, I'm not even talking about 'importing', as in bringing across state lines. I'm really just wondering about purchasing from someone who already has those rebuild kits in their possession, with the intent of assembling a lo-cap magazine. Is this completely illegal?

No, that's completely legal.

sigsauer887
01-30-2009, 12:06 PM
Man you know what, if you don't like that it's legal and you feel that it's illegal than don't do it, spend extra money and buy from an FFL, problem solved.

q2on
01-30-2009, 12:13 PM
Man you know what, if you don't like that it's legal and you feel that it's illegal than don't do it, spend extra money and buy from an FFL, problem solved.

Yeah, this is more of an educational venture so that I can inform myself to the best of my ability what is/isn't legal and what's in the gray area. I'd like to have an opinion that's grounded in facts rather than how I 'feel' about it. These linked articles are great, but so far this issue still remains in the gray area for me from what I've read.

sigsauer887
01-30-2009, 9:52 PM
Yeah, this is more of an educational venture so that I can inform myself to the best of my ability what is/isn't legal and what's in the gray area. I'd like to have an opinion that's grounded in facts rather than how I 'feel' about it. These linked articles are great, but so far this issue still remains in the gray area for me from what I've read.

No grey area dude, if you want an opinion on the law consult a lawyer. We've already stated that it's legal to do so, so I don't know how much more of an opinion you want from us.

Tony.
01-31-2009, 6:35 AM
Yeah, this is more of an educational venture so that I can inform myself to the best of my ability what is/isn't legal and what's in the gray area. I'd like to have an opinion that's grounded in facts rather than how I 'feel' about it. These linked articles are great, but so far this issue still remains in the gray area for me from what I've read.

If you cannot get over it, then have a FFL do it for you if it makes you feel better.

The penal code tells you what is illegal, not what is legal.

It is currently illegal to have a blood alcohol content above .08 and operate a motor vehicle, there is nothing written that having a BAC of 0 is legal. Do you still drive?

Seriously, do not make this harder than it is.

hoffmang
01-31-2009, 9:51 AM
PC 12020 (b) (25) As used in this section, "large-capacity magazine" means any ammunition feeding device with the capacity to accept more than 10 rounds, but shall not be construed to include any of the following:
(A) A feeding device that has been permanently altered so that it cannot accommodate more than 10 rounds.


We have some paperwork that "permanently altered" is certainly satisfied by a rivet and red lock tite. Frankly you should be fine with any permanent modification that requires cutting, drilling, or prying to undo. Epoxying in a block for example should work. Even better is riveting in a block.

-Gene

bohoki
01-31-2009, 11:32 AM
replacement parts do not equal a lcfd(large capacity feed device)

just like the ar15 clone receiver does not equal an assault weapon

if they are configured into a legally allowable state what law is broken?

the law is there to tell you what you cannot do not what you can

motorhead
01-31-2009, 1:49 PM
you will not find specific doj tutorials on making 10/30's. what you will find is a lot of armchair experts who will quote you 1000 wrong reasons it's not legal. they're idiots, if you continue to listen to them it will rub off. it is contagious. soon you will be repeating this fud to others.