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titan
01-29-2009, 10:27 PM
Do all firearms need to be stored in a Safe or have a lock on them in your own home if no children have access to them? Yes, I have the locks that either came with them or I purchase with them.

Also, if you can get more into a certified safe than the the mgf states, is that legal? If you add another shelf you increase the storage capacity.

Last question is what are the storage and lock requirements for guns purchased before the "lock/safe" law?

DDT
01-29-2009, 10:35 PM
There is no requirement to have your weapons in a safe or locked.

If you are stupid enough to allow children access to your weapons and they subsequently do harm with those weapons you can be held liable.

Since there are no requirements for storage the advertised capacity for a safe is irrelevant and the laws for guns are the same no matter when purchased.

N6ATF
01-30-2009, 1:18 AM
Best practice is to keep weapons so that nobody you don't want to can use them.

gcvt
01-30-2009, 2:00 AM
There is no requirement to have your weapons in a safe or locked.

If you are stupid enough to allow children access to your weapons and they subsequently do harm with those weapons you can be held liable.

Since there are no requirements for storage the advertised capacity for a safe is irrelevant and the laws for guns are the same no matter when purchased.

Unless you live in San Francisco and own a handgun.

niccnak
01-30-2009, 8:05 AM
I don't have any kids at my house, but could I be held liable for anything if some youngsters were to break into my house and do something with my shotgun?

DDT
01-30-2009, 9:07 AM
Unless you live in San Francisco and own a handgun.

Happily I don't live in SF. Because of this happy circumstance I don't know the relevant codes for SF. Would you be so kind as to post them so that others will find it in the future?

fairfaxjim
01-30-2009, 9:15 AM
I don't have any kids at my house, but could I be held liable for anything if some youngsters were to break into my house and do something with my shotgun?

Read PC12035 And it does say this:
PC12035.(c) Subdivision (b) shall not apply whenever any of the following occurs:
(1) The child obtains the firearm as a result of an illegal entry to any premises by any person.

In addition to being held liable for any damages, you may also be found guilty of the crime of "Criminal Storage of a Firearm", carrying up to a 3 year prison sentence and a $10,000 fine.

Decoligny
01-30-2009, 11:00 AM
I don't have any kids at my house, but could I be held liable for anything if some youngsters were to break into my house and do something with my shotgun?

No, you would not be in any trouble. See Section (c) (1) below:


12035. (a) As used in this section, the following definitions apply:
(1) "Locking device" means a device that is designed to prevent the firearm from functioning and when applied to the firearm, renders the firearm inoperable.
(2) "Loaded firearm" has the same meaning as set forth in subdivision (g) of Section 12031.
(3) "Child" means a person under 18 years of age.
(4) "Great bodily injury" has the same meaning as set forth in Section 12022.7.
(5) "Locked container" has the same meaning as set forth in subdivision (d) of Section 12026.2.
(b) (1) Except as provided in subdivision (c), a person commits the crime of "criminal storage of a firearm of the first degree" if he or she keeps any loaded firearm within any premises that are under his or her custody or control and he or she knows or reasonably should know that a child is likely to gain access to the firearm without the permission of the child's parent or legal guardian and the child obtains access to the firearm and thereby causes death or great bodily injury to himself, herself, or any other person.
(2) Except as provided in subdivision (c), a person commits the crime of "criminal storage of a firearm of the second degree" if he or she keeps any loaded firearm within any premises that are under his or her custody or control and he or she knows or reasonably should know that a child is likely to gain access to the firearm without the permission of the child's parent or legal guardian and the child obtains access to the firearm and thereby causes injury, other than great bodily injury, to himself, herself, or any other person, or carries the firearm either to a public place or in violation of Section 417.

(c) Subdivision (b) shall not apply whenever any of the following occurs:
(1) The child obtains the firearm as a result of an illegal entry to any premises by any person.

(2) The firearm is kept in a locked container or in a location that a reasonable person would believe to be secure.
(3) The firearm is carried on the person or within such a close proximity thereto that the individual can readily retrieve and use the firearm as if carried on the person.
(4) The firearm is locked with a locking device that has rendered the firearm inoperable.
(5) The person is a peace officer or a member of the armed forces or National Guard and the child obtains the firearm during, or incidental to, the performance of the person's duties.
(6) The child obtains, or obtains and discharges, the firearm in a lawful act of self-defense or defense of another person, or persons.
(7) The person who keeps a loaded firearm on any premise that is under his or her custody or control has no reasonable expectation, based on objective facts and circumstances, that a child is likely to be present on the premises.
(d) Criminal storage of a firearm is punishable as follows:
(1) Criminal storage of a firearm in the first degree, by imprisonment in the state prison for 16 months, or two or three years, by a fine not exceeding ten thousand dollars ($10,000), or by both that imprisonment and fine; or by imprisonment in a county jail not exceeding one year, by a fine not exceeding one thousand dollars ($1,000), or by both that fine and imprisonment.
(2) Criminal storage of a firearm in the second degree, by imprisonment in a county jail not exceeding one year, by a fine not exceeding one thousand dollars ($1,000), or by both that imprisonment and fine.
(e) If the person who allegedly violated this section is the parent or guardian of a child who is injured or who dies as the result of an accidental shooting, the district attorney shall consider, among other factors, the impact of the injury or death on the person alleged to have violated this section when deciding whether to prosecute an alleged violation. It is the Legislature's intent that a parent or guardian of a child who is injured or who dies as the result of an accidental shooting shall be prosecuted only in those instances in which the parent or guardian behaved in a grossly negligent manner or where similarly egregious circumstances exist. This subdivision shall not otherwise restrict, in any manner, the factors that a district attorney may consider when deciding whether to prosecute alleged violations of this section.
(f) If the person who allegedly violated this section is the parent or guardian of a child who is injured or who dies as the result of an accidental shooting, no arrest of the person for the alleged violation of this section shall occur until at least seven days after the date upon which the accidental shooting occurred.
In addition to the limitation contained in this subdivision, a law enforcement officer shall consider the health status of a child who suffers great bodily injury as the result of an accidental shooting prior to arresting a person for a violation of this section, if the person to be arrested is the parent or guardian of the injured child. The intent of this subdivision is to encourage law enforcement officials to delay the arrest of a parent or guardian of a seriously injured child while the child remains on life-support equipment or is in a similarly critical medical condition.
(g) (1) The fact that the person who allegedly violated this section attended a firearm safety training course prior to the purchase of the firearm that is obtained by a child in violation of this section shall be considered a mitigating factor by a district attorney when he or she is deciding whether to prosecute the alleged violation.
(2) In any action or trial commenced under this section, the fact that the person who allegedly violated this section attended a firearm safety training course prior to the purchase of the firearm that is obtained by a child in violation of this section, shall be admissible.
(h) Every person licensed under Section 12071 shall post within the licensed premises the notice required by paragraph (7) of subdivision (b) of that section, disclosing the duty imposed by this section upon any person who keeps a loaded firearm.

gcvt
01-30-2009, 12:54 PM
Happily I don't live in SF. Because of this happy circumstance I don't know the relevant codes for SF. Would you be so kind as to post them so that others will find it in the future?

I don't have a list of all the laws here but handguns have to either be in a safe or have a lock on them at all times. This does not apply to long guns. Stupid law.

DDT
01-30-2009, 1:02 PM
I don't have a list of all the laws here but handguns have to either be in a safe or have a lock on them at all times. This does not apply to long guns. Stupid law.

Please do post it when you do have a copy. I couldn't find a listing of the city codes online but will keep looking.


edit: Found it: http://www.sfgov.org/site/uploadedfiles/bdsupvrs/ordinances07/o0193-07.pdf

CA_Libertarian
01-30-2009, 1:51 PM
State law preempts regulation of gun storage in the home. I think that muni code would be struck down very quickly. Maybe it has been already...

DDT
01-30-2009, 1:57 PM
looking at http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/dwcl/53701.php it appears that state law wouldn't preempt local ordinances regarding possession only licensing and registering. Any reason this should apply to storage or is there a different law?

Librarian
01-30-2009, 2:05 PM
State law preempts regulation of gun storage in the home. I think that muni code would be struck down very quickly. Maybe it has been already...

Actually, no, state law doesn't speak to that in terms of pre-emption: Government Code 53071. It is the intention of the Legislature to occupy the whole
field of regulation of the registration or licensing of commercially
manufactured firearms as encompassed by the provisions of the Penal
Code, and such provisions shall be exclusive of all local
regulations, relating to registration or licensing of commercially
manufactured firearms, by any political subdivision as defined in
Section 1721 of the Labor Code.


The ordinance in SF (4512) specifies that failure to follow is a misdemeanor (e) Penalty. Every violation of this Section shall constitute a misdemeanor and upon conviction shall be punished by a fine not to exceed $1,000.00 or by imprisonment in the county jail not to exceed six months, or by both.

DDT
01-30-2009, 2:32 PM
The ordinance in SF (4512) specifies that failure to follow is a misdemeanor

I was under the impression (with zero supporting citations) that cities could not write laws that, if broken, would result in a felony.

Librarian
01-30-2009, 3:02 PM
I was under the impression (with zero supporting citations) that cities could not write laws that, if broken, would result in a felony.
It doesn't seem to be phrased exactly that way, but I think this means the same thing:
GC 36900. (a) Violation of a city ordinance is a misdemeanor unless by
ordinance it is made an infraction. The violation of a city
ordinance may be prosecuted by city authorities in the name of the
people of the State of California, or redressed by civil action.
Never looked that up before.

DDT
01-30-2009, 3:32 PM
It doesn't seem to be phrased exactly that way, but I think this means the same thing: Never looked that up before.

Your PC/GC/USC-fu is strong grasshopper. Many thanks from the less-skilled are deservedly heaped upon you.

motorhead
01-31-2009, 4:19 PM
I don't have any kids at my house, but could I be held liable for anything if some youngsters were to break into my house and do something with my shotgun?
not to mention they might be injured during the breakin itself. better provide easy access until you confer with your attorney and insurance agent. i would think leaving the door unlocked would be sufficient, but leave it wide open if it makes you feel safer.

vwynn
01-31-2009, 4:26 PM
just wondering.. it is ok to store multiple rifles in 1 case to be transported to the range right?