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pfl101
01-29-2009, 9:05 AM
1. PM one of the senior members--you know who they are. Don't post it out in cyberspace for "anyone" to see. Your IP can be traced, and if it's important enough for someone, your confession of criminal activity can be cause enough for a search warrant, etc.

2. Call a competent lawyer who can advise you. This would be:

A. Jason Davis (or anyone else from the firm Trutanich-Michel) @ (562) 216-4458 (davis@tmllp.com)

B. Bruce Colodny @(909) 862-3113 or (714) 639-6767.

Again, the saying "the walls have ears" applies especially to this site. It's not just a bunch of California gun enthusiasts out here, guys.

There's only one safe option: get rid of it via attorney using AB 2728.

Running across the border with it for a few bucks is not an option. Also, frying the thing do destroy evidence is commission of another illegal act beyond mere possession, so don't do that either.

strangerdude
01-29-2009, 9:07 AM
or you can call the police

MrSlippyFist
01-29-2009, 9:08 AM
Yeah, where is "notify local authorities" in that list?

Brendan Sullivan
01-29-2009, 9:12 AM
Nothing says local authorities won't try to pin something on you for possession or use your possession of the firearm as leverage for a search warrant to find what other 'illegal' things you're doing.

Not that I distrust the police, but I'd personally speak to a barrister first.

MrSlippyFist
01-29-2009, 9:18 AM
Nothing says local authorities won't try to pin something on you for possession

And conversing with greedy lawyers during illegal possession will help this?

strangerdude
01-29-2009, 9:24 AM
About a year ago I found a .357 revolver on my parents lawn while I was mowing it, called the police, they took my statement, and never suspected that it was my gun. They thanked me for calling them and I thanked them for their service, and that was it.

Vacaville
01-29-2009, 9:25 AM
Nothing says local authorities won't try to pin something on you for possession or use your possession of the firearm as leverage for a search warrant to find what other 'illegal' things you're doing.

Not that I distrust the police, but I'd personally speak to a barrister first.

Nice post, and I agree wholeheartedly.

As to reporting to "local authorities", LEO will probably confiscate your legally owned firearms and you'd spend the next few years trying to get them back while they try to destroy them. No thanks.

pfl101
01-29-2009, 9:29 AM
In the case of the .357, it wasn't yours so it was never registered in any way to you.

The guy who just now realized he's got something that became illegal when the registration deadline passed probably filled out paperwork identifying himself as the owner. Big difference.

As for calling the cops on yourself, I don't know if that's a great idea. It depends on who's showing up at your place, what their views are, etc.

From what I've read, it's largely a function of the manner in which things are handled up front. If you get arrested, you're already behind the 8-ball. Going through a lawyer initiated a well-traveled pathway that incorporates a lot more protection for you than the other options mentioned.

nobs11
01-29-2009, 9:30 AM
And conversing with greedy lawyers during illegal possession will help this?

I prefer to part with my money rather than part with my money and share a cell with a large hairy man.

You are an idiot if you go to the cops with your problems in this age and time. Talk to a lawyer for legal advice. The lawyer will take your money, but provide a service in return. Cops are not your friends. Read the Bill of Rights. Exercise them.

xrMike
01-29-2009, 9:34 AM
I prefer to part with my money rather than part with my money and share a cell with a large hairy man.I'd rather keep my money, destroy the item, dispose of wisely, and keep my mouth shut about all of it.

MrSlippyFist
01-29-2009, 9:44 AM
I prefer to part with my money rather than part with my money and share a cell with a large hairy man.

You are an idiot if you go to the cops with your problems in this age and time. Talk to a lawyer for legal advice. The lawyer will take your money, but provide a service in return. Cops are not your friends. Read the Bill of Rights. Exercise them.

Lol. I really question the views of the typical citizen when they don't trust LEO. I'm not going to them with my problems, I'm saying "hey, I found this - better you have it than some punk kid or gimp-gangster wannabe." Maybe it's the fact that I know some cops personally and trust them, and the average joe is piss scared of getting punked by the cops.

bwiese
01-29-2009, 9:54 AM
People trying to contact one of the "senior members" here with some issue of theirs should NOT tell anything about their case other than what's in the arrest report and/or charges filed.

We are not attorneys and do not have privilege and could somehow be forced to testify what was told to us.

ohsmily
01-29-2009, 9:58 AM
Lol. I really question the views of the typical citizen when they don't trust LEO.

Maybe it is because cops have so much power over your freedom and some of them lie?

Hell, just look at that post by E Pluribus Unum who recorded an interaction he had with some cops at a DUI checkpoint and one of them outright lied. It was a bad one too. The cop got caught. I hope he gets fired. That cop really gets my blood boiling.

Vacaville
01-29-2009, 10:00 AM
Lol. I really question the views of the typical citizen when they don't trust LEO. I'm not going to them with my problems, I'm saying "hey, I found this - better you have it than some punk kid or gimp-gangster wannabe." Maybe it's the fact that I know some cops personally and trust them, and the average joe is piss scared of getting punked by the cops.

I think it says something about the sad state of our law enforcement's views about citizens, not the views of the citizen. If Joe Blow walks into the local PD to turn in an illegal weapon, he will more than likely be treated as a criminal.

MrSlippyFist
01-29-2009, 10:01 AM
Yes there are bad cops. But after all my personal experiences I trust the average cop more than the average citizen.

eighteenninetytwo
01-29-2009, 10:11 AM
I would agree with this.
Actually one method I employed one time was to take the item to some cops sitting in a car eating their doughnuts. if you're polite and civil and helpful they are fine "Excuse me sir, I found this in father in law's garage when we were clearing it out - I think the police should have it" very simple, and I gunarantee that it never got handed in officially and the cop has it.

ddimick
01-29-2009, 10:15 AM
Cops are mostly good people who won't do you a bad turn when you're trying to do the right thing. But a small percentage aren't good people. The problem is that if you don't know any LEOs personally, you won't know which you'll get when you contact them. If there's even a tiny chance of getting railroaded, retain counsel.

It is preferable to think "Gee, I wish I hadn't spent all that money on an attorney" than "Gee, prison really sucks. I wish I'd retained a lawyer to help me stay out of this mess."

AaronHorrocks
01-29-2009, 10:19 AM
I prefer to part with my money rather than part with my money and share a cell with a large hairy man.

Your post is offensive to large hairy men. ;)

zuchaka
01-29-2009, 10:29 AM
think this should be a sticky ?

ke6guj
01-29-2009, 10:54 AM
People complain that having a lawyer facilitate the surrender would cost too much. Anybody have an idea about how much a lawyer would actually charge to do this? ohsmily? Oaklander?

Matt C
01-29-2009, 10:57 AM
People complain that having a lawyer facilitate the surrender would cost too much. Anybody have an idea about how much a lawyer would actually charge to do this? ohsmily? Oaklander?

Most would charge you a retainer, probably at least $5k, since once they are representing you there is no guarantee it will be a simple issue, and they have to represent you until you or the court gets someone else to do it. You may by able to make a special deal with someone though.

That said, better to be out $5k and have a lawyer on retainer than be trying to get one while you are in jail on a $500k bail. Ask me how I know.

People trying to contact one of the "senior members" here with some issue of theirs should NOT tell anything about their case other than what's in the arrest report and/or charges filed.

We are not attorneys and do not have privilege and could somehow be forced to testify what was told to us.

Also even if it was privileged we can't give you legal advice for your specific situation (practicing law without a license).

bwiese
01-29-2009, 10:58 AM
Folks,

Do it right. Ignore MrSlippyFist above. He has a couple of cops whose behavior he's trying to generalize from and which is therefore irrelevant in general.

Anyone finding himself with what is believed to be an illegal firearm (such as AW, illegally transferred firearm, etc.) should:


first try to minimize its illegality [i.e., remove AW features/strip to receiver etc.] as best
as possible. This at least stops the ongoing crime. If a situation can involve constructive
possession issues (say, of SBR/SBS), mere disassembly is not sufficient and you should
destroy and discreetly discard the triggering item (shorty upper, barrel, etc.)



Don't transport offending item(s) unless your attorney tells you toi (item (5) below).



During the steps to item (5) below, minimize any activities that might bring about LE/
emergency personnel interactions at your home and that could trigger 'exigency' intrusion.
Thus watch things like noise, fire hazards, zoning drama like cars parked on your lawn,
children misbehaving, unstable relatives who can trigger "5150"-type situations, traffic
behavior that could lead to LE interactions at/near home, etc.) Do not let any LE in your
home without warrant regardless of threats/intimidation.



Direct surrender to LE has risks. The situation may be defendable in the end, but why
go there? Your money, your arse.



Contact attorney IMMEDATELY. He can arrange surrender-of-item without charges for the
item(s) and situation directly relating to it (assumes no other issues like you just robbed a
liquor store, etc.).



If the item is Federally illegal as well situation can get a bit more complex (esp as Federally-
illegal items are also usually illegal in CA, but #5 above is still applicable, just on multiple fronts.

pfl101
01-29-2009, 11:05 AM
"People complain that having a lawyer facilitate the surrender would cost too much. Anybody have an idea about how much a lawyer would actually charge to do this? ohsmily? Oaklander?"

Good question.

Whatever the cost is, it pales in comparison to the potential ramifications of continuing to possess the weapon in question.

I do know that Jason Davis has had good success in this legal area. His number is listed on page 1. I encourage anyone who discovers they're in possession of a listed firearm to call him immediately.

As Bill pointed out, non-attorneys are not able to refuse to testify in some cases. In general, anything you don't want coming up in court should be said only to your attorney. Asking one of the senior guys about the legality of a gun in principle should be fairly safe, though.

pfl101
01-29-2009, 11:10 AM
Bill and Matt were posting while I wrote #23--pardon any redundancies.

Bill, you sure know your game. Thanks weighing in!

MrSlippyFist
01-29-2009, 11:30 AM
http://content.ytmnd.com/content/8/9/0/89003a3aaa2f2d8263e9d99899cbd8db.jpg

Matt C
01-29-2009, 11:33 AM
http://content.ytmnd.com/content/8/9/0/89003a3aaa2f2d8263e9d99899cbd8db.jpg

One question: Do you think I broke the law?

MrSlippyFist
01-29-2009, 12:06 PM
No, but I feel that the OP's intention was to provide a way to cover ones bases should they break the law, which is fine. Maybe a caveat about contacting LE if you know someone in the corrupt department that you can trust?

nobs11
01-29-2009, 12:14 PM
People trying to contact one of the "senior members" here with some issue of theirs should NOT tell anything about their case other than what's in the arrest report and/or charges filed.

We are not attorneys and do not have privilege and could somehow be forced to testify what was told to us.

A bit of a tangent, but how is Calguns.net or our web services provider protected from subpoenas or seizure during any ongoing investigation? What happens if LE has probable cause that information about illegal activities was posted here (or PM'ed to a member)? I'm guessing nothing and it can happen.

I'm asking because back in the 90s a friend of mine had a server center he owned shut down for a couple of weeks while the Feds were investigating possible kiddie porn sharing by a user.

Bill Walton
01-29-2009, 12:18 PM
Indeed guys. Holding on to illegal stuff and bragging about it is a recipe for legal trouble.

Matt C
01-29-2009, 12:20 PM
A bit of a tangent, but how is Calguns.net or our web services provider protected from subpoenas or seizure during any ongoing investigation? What happens if LE has probable cause that information about illegal activities was posted here (or PM'ed to a member)? I'm guessing nothing and it can happen.

I'm asking because back in the 90s a friend of mine had a server center he owned shut down for a couple of weeks while the Feds were investigating possible kiddie porn sharing by a user.

They are not going to shut down a whole data center over one customer's person's activities. A large data center has many incorporated clients, lawsuits would result.

While if the .gov gets a warrant they can seize servers, it would be... difficult, to find and seize calguns.net's servers. :chris: Worst case everyone's post count might get reset. ;) That said, don't post or PM anything you don't want the gov to see, the interweb is NOT secure.

No, but I feel that the OP's intention was to provide a way to cover ones bases should they break the law, which is fine. Maybe a caveat about contacting LE if you know someone in the corrupt department that you can trust?

Who determines who broke the law? Only a court can do that, and you don't get there without lawyers. It's not so cut and dry.

nobs11
01-29-2009, 2:15 PM
Who determines who broke the law? Only a court can do that, and you don't get there without lawyers. It's not so cut and dry.

+1

"No person shall be held to answer for any capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual service in time of War or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offence to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation. "

Every person is innocent until proven guilty via due process. The judicial system decides that, not cops. Cops can arrest you if reasonable evidence exists against you in their opinion, DAs might charge you, but until the point that you are convicted, you are innocent. We don't do witch hunts anymore. MrSlippyFist, your or any cop's opinion on whether a law was broken is irrelevant.

MrSlippyFist
01-29-2009, 2:18 PM
Thanks. I was waiting for someone to say my opinion didn't matter. I can move on now. I forgot that the system works perfectly and there was nothing to worry about.

bwiese
01-29-2009, 2:23 PM
A bit of a tangent, but how is Calguns.net or our web services provider protected from subpoenas or seizure during any ongoing investigation? What happens if LE has probable cause that information about illegal activities was posted here (or PM'ed to a member)? I'm guessing nothing and it can happen.

I'm asking because back in the 90s a friend of mine had a server center he owned shut down for a couple of weeks while the Feds were investigating possible kiddie porn sharing by a user.

There has been drama here before.
Things are secure here BUT
It's also unwise to have discussions of illegal situations on anythign subpoenable.

Brendan Sullivan
01-29-2009, 3:05 PM
If your neighbour's rooster lays an egg on your property, and the government confiscates it, who will be prosecuted?

MrSlippyFist
01-29-2009, 3:06 PM
If your neighbour's rooster lays an egg on your property, and the government confiscates it, who will be prosecuted?

LOL let me ask my lawyer.

Brendan Sullivan
01-29-2009, 3:09 PM
Ha-ha! Roosters don't lay eggs! You have the right to remain silent, mofo.

CSACANNONEER
01-29-2009, 3:16 PM
Ha-ha! Roosters don't lay eggs! You have the right to remain silent, mofo.

You've nevr been to SF or Hollywood, have you? The bottom line is that in CA, there are 58 DAs that will have 58 different opinions. So, everyone is subject to being raided, prosecuted and, the egg will be confinscated and never returned to the rightful owner.

Matt C
01-29-2009, 3:18 PM
Ha-ha! Roosters don't lay eggs! You have the right to remain silent, mofo.

In LA county the ADA will try to prove that roosters lay eggs, and will cite a DOJ expert who confirms this fact.

DedEye
01-29-2009, 11:46 PM
or you can call the police

Worst advice ever.

WokMaster1
01-30-2009, 12:06 AM
You've nevr been to SF or Hollywood, have you? The bottom line is that in CA, there are 58 DAs that will have 58 different opinions. So, everyone is subject to being raided, prosecuted and, the egg will be confinscated and never returned to the rightful owner.

So does the c#*k get castrated & become a capon?:p

xrMike
01-30-2009, 7:24 AM
One question: Do you think I broke the law?No, but posting videos of yourself bump-firing semiauto battle rifles on MySpace was not the brightest thing in the world to do either.

People do stupid **** sometimes. But you're right, that's not illegal.

Max-the-Silent
01-30-2009, 8:50 AM
1. PM one of the senior members--you know who they are. Don't post it out in cyberspace for "anyone" to see. Your IP can be traced, and if it's important enough for someone, your confession of criminal activity can be cause enough for a search warrant, etc.

2. Call a competent lawyer who can advise you. This would be:

A. Jason Davis (or anyone else from the firm Trutanich-Michel) @ (562) 216-4458 (davis@tmllp.com)

B. Bruce Colodny @(909) 862-3113 or (714) 639-6767.

Again, the saying "the walls have ears" applies especially to this site. It's not just a bunch of California gun enthusiasts out here, guys.

There's only one safe option: get rid of it via attorney using AB 2728.

Running across the border with it for a few bucks is not an option. Also, frying the thing do destroy evidence is commission of another illegal act beyond mere possession, so don't do that either.

Best post yet - all these "what about..." posts serve no legit purpose.

chsk9
01-30-2009, 11:03 AM
About a year ago I found a .357 revolver on my parents lawn while I was mowing it, called the police, they took my statement, and never suspected that it was my gun. They thanked me for calling them and I thanked them for their service, and that was it.

I just had the vision of "bbbbwaaaaaaa-CLUNK!...." W.T.F.!!! :eek:

MrSlippyFist
01-30-2009, 12:38 PM
I found something Ca. illegal once. I called the cops and they came and got it.
end of story

You didn't get a lawyer? Was it really that easy?

MrSlippyFist
01-30-2009, 1:23 PM
No big deal

Which city/town/area?

X-NewYawker
01-30-2009, 2:02 PM
I found something Ca. illegal once. I called the cops and they came and got it.
end of story

It's cool that they let you use the computer in your cell.

Matt C
01-30-2009, 3:29 PM
No, but posting videos of yourself bump-firing semiauto battle rifles on MySpace was not the brightest thing in the world to do either.

People do stupid **** sometimes. But you're right, that's not illegal.

Yeah, I guess I should hide my hobby is the darkest corner of my house and tell no one about it. Much safer that way.

fairfaxjim
01-30-2009, 3:49 PM
I'd prefer to call my attorney from the comfort of my own home instead of from jail. Chances are I won't need him for long from home, but from jail it is gonna get expensive. Bwiese should repost his reply as a new thread for a sticky, and let this one carry on into many pages of hurt feelings and bad advice.

CSACANNONEER
01-31-2009, 12:27 PM
I found something Ca. illegal once. I called the cops and they came and got it.
end of story
You didn't get a lawyer? Was it really that easy?

While I was doing a remodel, I found a "works" kit (neddle etc.) hidden in a little cabin that my parents had just bought. I called the local SO to find out where to dispose of it and they came out and removed it from it's hiding place. It was that easy. Although, it was not a weapon, it could have been a felony so, I see it as close to the same thing.

motorhead
01-31-2009, 2:57 PM
years ago when i lived in the ghetto, they raided the dope hose next door. the very next day my dog found a quarter pound of coke in the yard. i don't think he called the cops. he did have a lot of cash right afterwards.

tombinghamthegreat
01-31-2009, 3:57 PM
I'd rather keep my money, destroy the item, dispose of wisely, and keep my mouth shut about all of it.

+1 that. If you are going to something illegal use your 5th amendment rights...if people are not smart enough to play the game then get a lawyer ASAP and avoid contact with the PD.

TheBundo
01-31-2009, 4:13 PM
Yes there are bad cops. But after all my personal experiences I trust the average cop more than the average citizen.

Me too. But the average citizen can't make your life a living hell as much as a bad cop, or a bad dept. or division. It's well documented about the Rampart Division is LA, a gang of cops in Oakland, etc. There should be ZERO TOLERANCE of misbehavior by cops under color of authority, and all good cops should do everything to eliminate bad cops. Remember Serpico? But unfortunately, the code of silence remains for many. That shows that they have a "we against them" mentality, with the "we" being all cops, and the "they" being virtually all citizens.

I'm not saying all cops are like that, so no flames please. I'm saying there shouldn't be ANY cops like that. Penalties should be harsh for gross willful misconduct. For framing someone, it should equal 7 times the sentence they were exposing the innocent person to.