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View Full Version : OLL build. Featureless Vs. Bullet Button.


Lone_Gunman
01-28-2009, 8:32 PM
I am going to be starting my first OLL build here in a while (I may wait a couple months till the prices come down on parts). This is going to be a target shooting/SHTF gun. I am trying to decide which road to take here. It seems to me that in a true SHTF breakdown of social order situation you may not have time to find the little screw driver and remove the BB or like accessory before you need to start switching out mags quickly. For those of you who have a build using a Monster Man grip how does this alter the feel of the gun? Are you as comfortable shooting it as with the standard pistol grip setup? All input is appreciated.

sorensen440
01-28-2009, 8:39 PM
Both
go featureless for your first build if you have any legally owned standard cap mags

3GunFunShooter
01-28-2009, 8:43 PM
I like the U-15 California Rilfle stock myself.

stphnman20
01-28-2009, 8:44 PM
I say go the BB route.

Mark One
01-28-2009, 8:45 PM
BB route in my opinion.

red2sniper
01-28-2009, 8:48 PM
at least one of each!:thumbsup:

AndrewMendez
01-28-2009, 8:48 PM
have you seen the bullet button?? Its super easy to push in, I even saw a guy at the range who added a piece of metal to to his glove on the right ring finger that was just long enough to push the button! It literally takes 3 seconds to pick up a bullet and push it in! And installation is maybe 20 minutes.

spdrcr
01-28-2009, 8:50 PM
Both
go featureless for your first build if you have any legally owned standard cap mags

+1 to that

mdouglas1980
01-28-2009, 8:54 PM
I thought you could use your standard Cap mags with either a BB or featureless black rifle? My understanding was that if you owned them prior you can use them on any rifle you own. Is it the way the law is written with the lock? Of having the ability to accept a detachable mag? clarification please...... :confused:

sorensen440
01-28-2009, 8:56 PM
I thought you could use your standard Cap mags with either a BB or featureless black rifle? My understanding was that if you owned them prior you can use them on any rifle you own. Is it the way the law is written with the lock? Of having the ability to accept a detachable mag? clarification please...... :confused:
you cant have a fixed mag over 10 rnds in any gun that's not a registered AW.
(bb is a fixed mag)

97F1504RAD
01-28-2009, 8:58 PM
I thought you could use your standard Cap mags with either a BB or featureless black rifle? My understanding was that if you owned them prior you can use them on any rifle you own. Is it the way the law is written with the lock? Of having the ability to accept a detachable mag? clarification please...... :confused:

You cannot use a standard capacity mag with a BB/evil features firearm. You may ONLY use a mag with the max capacity of 10 rounds

smf37
01-28-2009, 8:58 PM
I thought you could use your standard Cap mags with either a BB or featureless black rifle? My understanding was that if you owned them prior you can use them on any rifle you own. Is it the way the law is written with the lock? Of having the ability to accept a detachable mag? clarification please...... :confused:

This is not true. If you have any evil features you have to have a fixed 10 round mag

Only rifles with no evil features can you use your old standard cap mags...

See the calguns flow chart for more info

River Jack
01-28-2009, 8:59 PM
I thought you could use your standard Cap mags with either a BB or featureless black rifle? My understanding was that if you owned them prior you can use them on any rifle you own. Is it the way the law is written with the lock? Of having the ability to accept a detachable mag? clarification please...... :confused:

A semi automatic centerfire rifle with a fixed (i.e., non-detachable) mag. that has the ability to accept more than 10 rounds is considered an assault weapon per CA law.

devildog999
01-28-2009, 9:03 PM
I want to be able to have a vertical forward grip, adjustable butt stock, and other things of the sort. I don't even have any pre ban 30 rounders so it's not like I get to have that fun

sorensen440
01-28-2009, 9:04 PM
I don't even have any pre ban 30 rounders so it's not like I get to have that fun
I'm lucky enough to have purchased standard cap mags before the ban and the fun is overrated

pfl101
01-28-2009, 9:13 PM
The U-15 looks like a better bet than the Monster Man (which is what I have). Apparently, the John Contos case resulted in favorable conditions for those who use it (considered to be not a pistol grip--duh).

If you can get one, do it. You can have full-cap mags AND get a good hold on the gun.

pfl101
01-28-2009, 9:13 PM
"I'm lucky enough to have purchased standard cap mags before the ban and the fun is overrated."

Reassuring, but disappointing at the same time.

Darklyte27
01-28-2009, 9:14 PM
You will have to take off your MMG off if SHTF, you will look very funny with it

sorensen440
01-28-2009, 9:16 PM
"I'm lucky enough to have purchased standard cap mags before the ban and the fun is overrated."

Reassuring, but disappointing at the same time.
Don't get me wrong I'm glad I have them
there is a definite tactical advantage to them but I tend to burn through ammo a little too fast when using them.

Linus
01-28-2009, 9:40 PM
Most people will recommend going the BB route but it all depends on what you plan on doing with your weapon.

Quiet
01-28-2009, 9:41 PM
If you have large capacity magazines that you owned in CA before 01-01-2000, then go with a featureless build.

If you did not own large capacity magazines in CA before 01-01-2000, then go with a mag-lock build.



IMO...
Who cares if you look "funny" in a SHTF scenario?
The SHTF!
Unless you are a mall ninja, why would you care what it looks like, as long as it gets the job done.

AndrewMendez
01-28-2009, 9:46 PM
Has anyone ever been hassled at the range??? Nobody cares!!!

Quiet
01-28-2009, 9:50 PM
Has anyone ever been hassled at the range??? Nobody cares!!!

People have been arrested in the past.
People will get arrested, if they choose to break the law.

If you have $10,000 or more to spend on legal fees, go ahead and do whatever you want.

sorensen440
01-28-2009, 9:53 PM
Has anyone ever been hassled at the range??? Nobody cares!!!
yes it used to happen

Darklyte27
01-28-2009, 9:54 PM
keep a dummy round in your pocket, or buy one of those lanyards with a dummy rd on it, it takes like 2 seconds at most to release the mag from a bullet button build.

sorensen440
01-28-2009, 9:54 PM
keep a dummy round in your pocket, or buy one of those lanyards with a dummy rd on it, it takes like 2 seconds at most to release the mag from a bullet button build.
Just dont attach the lanyard to the rifle

Lone_Gunman
01-28-2009, 9:56 PM
You will have to take off your MMG off if SHTF, you will look very funny with it

Hey, as long as I'm alive and able to protect me and mine I dont really care if I look funny.

My personal opinion on the u-15 stock is that it is butt ugly so if I do go featureless it will be with the MMG. My main concern with the MMG is how the weapon feels with it. How about it MMG users?

Darklyte27
01-28-2009, 9:58 PM
its easier to hold a pistol grip and more secure I think than a mmg when being alert to a ready to shoot position

doughboy334
01-28-2009, 10:01 PM
BB = more customization = more fun! Go with Raddlock, it goes from CA legal bullet button to dropping mags* in less than 5 seconds and 5 turns of the screw.


*Make sure you're out of CA and somewhere legal when you do this

evmo
01-28-2009, 10:01 PM
I'm lucky enough to have purchased standard cap mags before the ban and the fun is overrated

Don't get me wrong I'm glad I have them...but I tend to burn through ammo a little too fast when using them.

Same here. I have 2 30 rounders for my Mini-14 and I use them next to never. I find the stock 5 round magazine to be more than sufficient for putting holes in paper. Blazing through 30 rounds a time is a lot of fun but also pricey!

slvrbulit12
01-28-2009, 10:08 PM
I hated the way the MM grip felt when I first put it on, too used to the pistol grip, but after using I like the MM very much. I perfer fixed stocks anyway.

madmike2uu
01-28-2009, 10:13 PM
Do like I'm planning on... one upper, two lowers... one with the U-15 stock and an open magwell, and one with a tactical stock, pistol grip and bullet button.

Problem solved!

lumpia
01-28-2009, 10:20 PM
You will have to take off your MMG off if SHTF, you will look very funny with it


This makes no sense.


I say it depends what you're trying to do with the gun. If it's strictly a paper puncher/can destroyer, then a tacticool bb build is great. They look really cool in pics and nuts drop when you pull them out at the range.

If you really want something you might have to depend on if the shtf, then go Monsterman. I guarantee when there are bumps in the night, the last thing you're going to be thinking about is whether you grabbed your tool, if your lanyard with tool is connected to your pajamas, or unscrewing the damn Raddlock off.

I'm building two bb builds. One is going to be a tacticool 9mm plinker and the other is going to be a tricked out, long distance paper puncher. For the carbine classes/matches I'm planning on taking, my 2 true fighting carbines are on mm grips.

I don't get why people suggest to go with a mm grip only if you have pre-bans. Changing mags while burning through 10 rounders during a course of fire seems MUCH faster with a regular mag release.

*edit* - Don't know where you are but I'm in the Bay Area if you want to meet up and shoulder my mm builds sometime.

Lone_Gunman
01-28-2009, 10:29 PM
I think at this point Im leaning toward the MMG for the build and then having a pistol grip and Raddlock put away in case I want to change the config later.

shooting4life
01-28-2009, 10:34 PM
Get a 22lr upper then you can have all fun stuff at the same time

domokun
01-28-2009, 10:38 PM
Featureless for normal/quicker magazine changes.

wash
01-29-2009, 10:39 AM
In my opinion, featureless is the way to go. I like the A2 stock/monsterman grip combo.

No tools required and you can use a beta mag if you have one.

If you get an upper that has features that can't be removed you'll never be able to change it to a featureless build but if you start featureless you could always get a bullet button and add any features you want.

AdamM
01-29-2009, 10:44 AM
MMG if you have standard capacity mags from before 2000 or for HD
BB if you want all the features (obviously)

ohsmily
01-29-2009, 11:00 AM
All of you seem so hung up on the looks of the U-15 stock: "butt ugly" "weird" etc. If looks is your guiding issue, then go for a BB or monster man grip or whatever else.

As for as ergonomics and control of your rifle and the ability to have a stock magazine release and use high cap mags, the U-15 is superior. If you shoot action or practical matches or you train with your rifle (other than "bench shooting") the U-15 is the way to go.

By the way, I have multiple monster man grips, U-15s and bullet button setups. They all have their niche.

tombinghamthegreat
01-29-2009, 2:59 PM
For HD or a SHTF featureless all the way. It may not look as cool but at this point in time it is the most practical way to effectly get the best use out of your tools.

devildog999
01-29-2009, 4:13 PM
I'm lucky enough to have purchased standard cap mags before the ban and the fun is overrated

Agreed, had them in the Marine Corps (duh right) and even though it is nice to have 30 rounders, it is not all that important to me.

DukeofSD
02-09-2009, 8:34 AM
Which gets more attention or “hassles” at the range or with law enforcement, the Bullet Button or the Monster Man Grip?

I had always thought that the Prince 50 would be the safest way to go but with the new issues of people possibly misusing them it is making me rethink what would get less attention. I went with the Bullet Button, but I am thinking that the Monster Man grip may be a better choice for me. I have a CMMG lower with a 24” bull barreled upper from M&A with a free float tube and a Versa bipod. I don’t have any other “evil” features and I’m left handed so I don’t need the ambidextrous safety. If the Monster Man grip gets less unwanted attention I may give it a try.

Side Note-

I installed a Bullet Button but the outside housing still has movement. I used the installation tool that ARRR-15 makes (great tool!), but the inside nut bottoms out before the housing gets tight. I looked at some Bullet Button equipped AR-15’s at CWS table at the Del Mar gun show and the Bullet Button housing had no movement. Is there a way to take up the slack?

Thanks,
Duke of SD

Rob Roy
02-09-2009, 11:28 PM
More fun with BB.

Sarkoon
02-09-2009, 11:46 PM
I tend to think of it this way - build up what you would have if there were no asinine laws, and then throw a bullet button on it. When the laws change for the better, or you move out of state, remove the bullet button and you'll have the rifle you've always wanted.

Rob Roy
02-09-2009, 11:50 PM
I tend to think of it this way - build up what you would have if there were no asinine laws, and then throw a bullet button on it. When the laws change for the better, or you move out of state, remove the bullet button and you'll have the rifle you've always wanted.
+1 :thumbsup:

aplinker
02-10-2009, 2:58 AM
All of you seem so hung up on the looks of the U-15 stock: "butt ugly" "weird" etc. If looks is your guiding issue, then go for a BB or monster man grip or whatever else.

As for as ergonomics and control of your rifle and the ability to have a stock magazine release and use high cap mags, the U-15 is superior. If you shoot action or practical matches or you train with your rifle (other than "bench shooting") the U-15 is the way to go.

By the way, I have multiple monster man grips, U-15s and bullet button setups. They all have their niche.

Yup.

I was so certain all you'd type was, "This thread is new and interesting." :D

Go with whatever you want, but functionality is best. It's also fun to play "dress-up" on OLLs you can use fully functional out of state or at the range in state.

In the end, ARs are tinker toys. You'll either own them all or switch configs a lot.