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View Full Version : wtf..backordered a upper (20 weeks)-vendor charged my cc!


baselfish
01-28-2009, 6:21 PM
used a reputable vendor - not CG sponsor, but reliable

ordered a full stag 20" upper et. al (stock, lpk, BB, etc)

total cost $730+

obviously the wait is around 15-20 weeks...
im ok with the wait...such is current supply and demand...

odd thig is vendor already charged my cc in FULL...

is this kind of thing normally seen...?

im from the school of ship then charge, not the other way around...
i dont mind a week backorder, but 20 weeks is some 4 months...

i asked the vendor to reverse the charge...we shall see what happens...

but have you all experienced the same?

if the vendor balks ill let you all know

Bf

X-NewYawker
01-28-2009, 6:23 PM
They're figuring that if possession of an upper is illegal before you take delivery, they at least have your money.

Seriously, some vendors have to pay on ordering to get parts unless they are big customers. I'm hoping they are just paying for your upper to make sure they get put on the list in these CRAZY times

strangerdude
01-28-2009, 6:28 PM
Is it possible that uppers will be illegal too?

AndrewMendez
01-28-2009, 6:32 PM
Maybe STAG is CHARGING them to pre order!!! If it makes you feel better i just left big 5 and picked up there last Remington 870, there store policy is a 14 day hold!! 2 weeks!!! Yeah, that probably didn't make you feel better!

pfl101
01-28-2009, 6:43 PM
Try riflegear.com. They promise to not charge your card until they ship the item.

I'm not an attorney, but it seems unlikely that upper assemblies would be banned. Buying all the lower receivers you need to assemble your desired number of guns would ensure that the part that would be readily illegalized would already be taken care of before BHO gets around to that issue.

bobbyblank
01-28-2009, 6:47 PM
I orderd from Del-Ton. They do a temporary charge to your card to make sure its vaild and has money on it, then they refund it a day or so later. it cault me off gaurd as well, and i wasnt too happy lol.

pfl101
01-28-2009, 6:55 PM
To be fair, riflegear.com told me that they do the same thing--temporary "ping"--to your card to verify capacity.

They should tell you up front, but that's what's going on.

stphnman20
01-28-2009, 6:58 PM
That sucks!

baselfish
01-28-2009, 7:01 PM
i did double check...
sadly this was no temp charge..

$732.89 in full on 1/12/09

we shall see what the vendor has to say...
they are very reputable and i have bought a bunch of accessories from them
with no problem (10/20 mags, magpul parts, etc)

but imho a lot of thing can happen in some 4 months -
mostly me forgetting and some how my invoice gets missplaced...

anyways - if the vendor balks - i did ask for a refund and i will let you all know who they are...

bf

AndrewMendez
01-28-2009, 7:07 PM
i did double check...
sadly this was no temp charge..

$732.89 in full on 1/12/09

we shall see what the vendor has to say...
they are very reputable and i have bought a bunch of accessories from them
with no problem (10/20 mags, magpul parts, etc)

but imho a lot of thing can happen in some 4 months -
mostly me forgetting and some how my invoice gets missplaced...

anyways - if the vendor balks - i did ask for a refund and i will let you all know who they are...

bf


Thats 732 reasons NOT to forget!! I think we should all ban together and make them change all this bull crap laws!!! WHO IS WITH ME???

bombadillo
01-28-2009, 7:11 PM
When do we march?

BroncoBob
01-28-2009, 7:12 PM
LanWorld does this but they let you know up front.

4thSeal
01-28-2009, 7:13 PM
If that place goes out of buisness and it is after the allowable time to dispute your charge you are screwed... I know because I paid in full for a set of port/polished racing head, months went by and guy ran off with a lot of peoples money, including my 2400$

sorensen440
01-28-2009, 7:14 PM
Thats lame but isnt it legal in some states?

bombadillo
01-28-2009, 7:17 PM
BTW anybody know if white oak armament charges prior to making your upper?

RossRinSD
01-28-2009, 7:23 PM
LanWorld does this but they let you know up front.

Not always...

========== GENERAL INFORMATION ==========
Company: LAN World, Inc.
Order date: 11/9/2008

========== ORDER INFORMATION ==========
Payment By: Visa 4XXXXXXXXXXX8761
Status: APPROVED - Y:3485650441067126:YYYM:100630057033:
Order: OnlineOrder_00001192

Product Name: AK-47 Style Monster Man Grip
Unit Price: $45.00
Quantity: 1
Shipping Method: UPS Ground

Product Name: AK-47 Style Bullet Button (RADD Lock)
Unit Price: $30.00
Quantity: 2
Shipping Method: UPS Ground

Shipping & Handling: $12.47
Grand Total: $117.47

Please allow one day for order processing. We will notify for
backorder items.


Still waiting on these items, they don't know when they'll get them. Pretty much every company in the firearms industry pulls this crap. It does get old, but we'll keep BOHICA...

I cancelled uppers from Rock River after waiting 4 months and being told they'll get around to it and to stop asking...

baselfish
01-28-2009, 7:23 PM
LanWorld does this but they let you know up front.

well there you have it...looks like the cat is out of the bag....

i have confirmation that the CC transaction was approved, but was shocked to see it was PIF
(paid in full)

like i said - ive used them before, very pleased with their prices and service...
legal or not,just on pricinpal im used the the practice of "ship then charge"...

no matter how great the vendor is...i just aint right...
im down with maybe an agreed deposit of 10-20%, but the full monty
with a 4 month wait...

Bf

baselfish
01-28-2009, 7:26 PM
Not always...



Still waiting on these items, they don't know when they'll get them. Pretty much every company in the firearms industry pulls this crap. It does get old, but we'll keep BOHICA...

I cancelled uppers from Rock River after waiting 4 months and being told they'll get around to it and to stop asking...

i have the same email from them...
i thought it was just a temp charge to ensure my CC would clear...
twas not...

check your CC bill - ill bet you'll see it was charged in full...

Bf

Tunis
01-28-2009, 7:34 PM
not cool...its usually common practice to charge a customer's CC only when the order is ready to ship! i cancelled a $3000 order with a vendor because on their website, it showed the items were available and not on backorder. about 2 days later, my CC is charged the full amount. i'm thinking cool...my order is shipping soon. 2 weeks later, still no order, so i call and they say everything i ordered is on backorder and they have no ETA on when it will be available. at this point, im PO'd and immediately cancel my order! :mad:

AndrewMendez
01-28-2009, 7:34 PM
When do we march?



ASAP!!!!!
HELL, lets start tomorrow!

shark92651
01-28-2009, 7:55 PM
There is a difference between an "autorization" (also called a "hold") and a "capture" of a credit card transaction. An authorization basically reserves the amount until the charge is captured. Our credit card processing system will place an authorization but will release it automatically if the capture is not done within a month. When stuff is in stock and ships within a few days it's usually not an issue - but we occasionally will release a hold if a customer requests it. The reason for an authorization is a valid one - what if the vendor takes a couple days to process and ship your order but by the time he attempts to capture the charge the buyer has used all their credit up on other purchases? Now the vendor can't charge the card and just wasted all their time processing an order that now can't go out.

Most manufacturers do NOT charge the vendor either until they ship so the speculation that Stag would need the money up front is probably wrong. I would not be happy either if an order that was on a four month wait had been captured already. If it was a special order or a custom made item I could understand, but just a standard Stag upper?

devildog999
01-28-2009, 8:04 PM
Doesn't surprise me. I usually buy things and the funds clear before they are going to ship. What would they do if they shipped it and your payment didn't clear. Then what do they do?

baselfish
01-28-2009, 8:05 PM
There is a difference between an "autorization" (also called a "hold") and a "capture" of a credit card transaction. An authorization basically reserves the amount until the charge is captured. Our credit card processing system will place an authorization but will release it automatically if the capture is not done within a month. When stuff is in stock and ships within a few days it's usually not an issue - but we occasionally will release a hold if a customer requests it. The reason for an authorization is a valid one - what if the vendor takes a couple days to process and ship your order but by the time he attempts to capture the charge the buyer has used all their credit up on other purchases? Now the vendor can't charge the card and just wasted all their time processing an order that now can't go out.

Most manufacturers do NOT charge the vendor either until they ship so the speculation that Stag would need the money up front is probably wrong. I would not be happy either if an order that was on a four month wait had been captured already. If it was a special order or a custom made item I could understand, but just a standard Stag upper?

well this is good to know...and i may very well be in touch...
i know all vendors are awating uppers, so the wait is a given...
frankly especially with the uber uber long wait - charing in full is just not kosher to me...

if things fall through - i will hit you up shark...im just looking for the basic
20" a3 upper - with handle sights, lpk, bb, rifle stock...

thanks for your input..

Bf

socalrds
01-28-2009, 8:09 PM
i have a merchant account and it is in violation of there terms and conditions set by visa and master card to charge your card for something that has not shipped although a lot of people do it if enough people complain or issue backcharges to the same vendor Visa MC will pull there charging abilities untill they prove they are actually "selling" what they are charging

Cru Jones
01-28-2009, 8:14 PM
Personally, I would NOT be okay with them charging my card for something that won't ship for 15 to 20 weeks or longer. A lot can happen in 15-20 weeks. There are so many vendors out there to buy from that only charge right before shipping, why not buy from them?

GrayWolf09
01-28-2009, 8:42 PM
I ordered a Stag upper from Lanworld in December. They charged my card when I placed the order. I got the upper last week. :clap:

In mid-November I ordered a lower from Irvington Arms. I had to pay in full and I have yet to receive it.:toetap05:

The only rationale I can think of is that with everything on backorder, people place the same order with multiple sellers and when the first one ships, they cancel the rest. The problem with this reasoning is that in this market they can sell anything that comes in the door ordered or not. They could require a deposit rather than payment in full.:nono:

Seesm
01-28-2009, 8:42 PM
ALot of companies get dinged by doing special orders and such and the people "bail" on them and they get stuck with the product.

We used to not do it but after 9 yrs and getting jacked for well OVER 40K in various deals we do it too... Try running a business and see how fast you change... Your still a nice person but your a nice person who now cover your a*s!! :)

baselfish
01-28-2009, 8:47 PM
I ordered a Stag upper from Lanworld in December. They charged my card when I placed the order. I got the upper last week. :clap:

In mid-November I ordered a lower from Irvington Arms. I had to pay in full and I have yet to receive it.:toetap05:

The only rationale I can think of is that with everything on backorder, people place the same order with multiple sellers and when the first one ships, they cancel the rest. The problem with this reasoning is that in this market they can sell anything that comes in the door ordered or not. They could require a deposit rather than payment in full.:nono:

i gots no problem with 1-2 weeks...even a month...
but this uncertain "around 4 months" is just too vague for me...

i did write to them for some more clarrification...i understand they need assurances from me...so im more than keen to either put down X % or get some bona fides that it will come in before summer...

Bf

Darklyte27
01-28-2009, 8:51 PM
my first upper came in 2.5 weeks back in june or so.

my Varminter upper came in about 3-4 weeks back in November or so

lumpia
01-28-2009, 8:59 PM
My buddy ordered a full CTR kit through LanWorld knowing it was backordered and was not told he would be charged up front, but he was. After waiting for a couple of months, yesterday we found the full kit locally. He wanted to buy it but was concerned about getting refunded from LanWorld. I told him to go ahead and if anything, I'll buy it from him when it finally comes in.

Today he called them and told me that they did refund him his money but charged him a 3% restocking fee. Now I don't quite understand how you charge a 3% restocking fee for something that was never in stock.

Now I've ordered through LanWorld before and I really like them over there, but this kind of put me off.

Darklyte27
01-28-2009, 9:07 PM
They probably used the wrong term, when they run a CC, the webstore probably uses some company to process the CC stuff taking a percentage, so refunding the credit again probably charged another fee to them.

RossRinSD
01-29-2009, 5:25 AM
There is a difference between an "autorization" (also called a "hold") and a "capture" of a credit card transaction. An authorization basically reserves the amount until the charge is captured. Our credit card processing system will place an authorization but will release it automatically if the capture is not done within a month. When stuff is in stock and ships within a few days it's usually not an issue - but we occasionally will release a hold if a customer requests it. The reason for an authorization is a valid one - what if the vendor takes a couple days to process and ship your order but by the time he attempts to capture the charge the buyer has used all their credit up on other purchases? Now the vendor can't charge the card and just wasted all their time processing an order that now can't go out.

Most manufacturers do NOT charge the vendor either until they ship so the speculation that Stag would need the money up front is probably wrong. I would not be happy either if an order that was on a four month wait had been captured already. If it was a special order or a custom made item I could understand, but just a standard Stag upper?


So, do you guys have AK monsterman grips and raddlocks in stock?

RossRinSD
01-29-2009, 5:32 AM
Sucks to hear I'm not the only one with problems. I too haven't asked for a refund because I don't want to deal a 'restocking' fee. I wonder if it would be better to dispute the charges and ask for a chargeback instead.

Lumpia, its things like that make me put a vendor on the do not use list. I'm not one of those customers that stir up a fuss, I just my pennies elsewhere. And tell all my family and friends, (do you guys count as friends?).

Hope those guys don't want to be lumped into the same group as Sportsman Guide and Cheaper than Dirt.

baselfish
01-29-2009, 3:16 PM
well thanks all for your support

i aint too happy about no potential 3% fee BS -even if it is only$20.00

i have still not heard back from them as of yet...

i thought they were a reliable vendor too...sigh

as soon as i know somehting i will update jooz all...

till then be warned...it appears for some it is pay now and then wait 4 months for you stuff to come in....

Bf

-hanko
01-29-2009, 3:27 PM
well thanks all for your support

i aint too happy about no potential 3% fee BS -even if it is only$20.00

i have still not heard back from them as of yet...

i thought they were a reliable vendor too...sigh

as soon as i know somehting i will update jooz all...

till then be warned...it appears for some it is pay now and then wait 4 months for you stuff to come in....

Bf
Reliable or not, not fair to charge your plastic without shipping you your parts. Sounds like lack of cash flow on the seller's part.

-hanko

Knight
01-29-2009, 3:35 PM
I'm pretty sure LANWorld did this to me when I got on the waiting list for a Stag lower. I'm personally not too annoyed by it, if anything it will ensure that my card doesn't get charged out of the blue three months from now and I'm suddenly out $150-something.

fonionrings
01-29-2009, 4:05 PM
Yep, ordered from LanWord in early November as well and was charged full amount. Originally was a 6-8 week backlog when I placed my order. It's now been 12 weeks and no ETA.

socomIInato
01-29-2009, 5:31 PM
lanworld got me too! but i`ve only been waiting for my stag upper since jan. 1st. they also charged my card! one must be patient in the world of obama mania! this is my stimulus to the economy.

spdrcr
01-29-2009, 5:41 PM
well this is good to know...and i may very well be in touch...
i know all vendors are awating uppers, so the wait is a given...
frankly especially with the uber uber long wait - charing in full is just not kosher to me...

if things fall through - i will hit you up shark...im just looking for the basic
20" a3 upper - with handle sights, lpk, bb, rifle stock...

thanks for your input..

Bf

DD's Ranch has full Stag rifles in stock. It might be quicker to buy one of those and sell your stripped lower.

GOA510
01-29-2009, 5:47 PM
HHHmmmm looks like Im staying away from LanWorld. Ive done special orders on auto parts have had to put 50% down on $3000+ orders and that was hard. You would think reputable places would care more or give you a heads up. Like the OP said, times are crazy right and a wait is understandable. But being charged in full with no guarantee is not right.

X-NewYawker
01-29-2009, 5:50 PM
Reliable or not, not fair to charge your plastic without shipping you your parts. Sounds like lack of cash flow on the seller's part.

-hanko

No. How about he waits to charge your card and six months form now when his jobber delivers an upper costs $1200? The CC charge locks you in at TODAY'S PRICE. The Seller takes the risk the price goes up. You take the risk he goes out of business before your gun comes in.

About uppers NOT being banned. of course every jack-a-nape will jump in and say the last House and Senate bills didn't pass -- but BOTH included "parts that can be used to construct an AW" as banned. They are hip to OLL. You want whole guns get them now.

Clodbuster
01-30-2009, 4:31 PM
I got taken by Lanworld too. They actually told me they had an item in stock and to place the order. Charged me right away. Then I found out 2 weeks later they never had it in stock, and don't know when they will have it in stock. The local dealers had it in stock. Demanded a refund and was charged a 3% fee because I believed what they told me when I ordered.


Clod

well thanks all for your support

i aint too happy about no potential 3% fee BS -even if it is only$20.00

i have still not heard back from them as of yet...

i thought they were a reliable vendor too...sigh

as soon as i know somehting i will update jooz all...

till then be warned...it appears for some it is pay now and then wait 4 months for you stuff to come in....

Bf

Born2Lose
01-30-2009, 5:28 PM
In 20 weeks the S will have H T F and there won't be any credit cards anymore so they figure why not get the money now!

RP1911
01-30-2009, 7:31 PM
I own my own online store. I don't charge CC until the item is shipped. Even if I have to special order something. Part of the service I provide.

I have on 4 occasions offered a discount if the customer was willing to pre-pay. Works for all. I get the cash flow when times are lean and the customer gets the product with a discount.

My CC processing company has a firm rule that an item has to be delivered within 30 days of the charge.

Blacktail 8541
01-30-2009, 8:27 PM
I ordered a barrel from a reputable vendor a couple of days ago that was listed as in stock. I found out today that they will not be instock for another 3 to 4 weeks or more. I was charged in full at the time of the order. I have been burned before by a vendor, I emailed them thru their webb site after trying to contact them by phone to cancle the order and refund the charges. If it has not been refunded by tuesday morning I will initiate a dispute and chargeback.

elSquid
01-30-2009, 9:05 PM
My CC processing company has a firm rule that an item has to be delivered within 30 days of the charge.

The "Mail or Telephone Order Rule"

http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/edu/pubs/business/adv/bus02.shtm

If, after taking the customerís order, you learn that you cannot ship within the time you stated or within 30 days, you must seek the customerís consent to the delayed shipment. If you cannot obtain the customerís consent to the delay -- either because it is not a situation in which you are permitted to treat the customerís silence as consent and the customer has not expressly consented to the delay, or because the customer has expressly refused to consent -- you must, without being asked, promptly refund all the money the customer paid you for the unshipped merchandise.

http://www.ftc.gov/opa/2003/11/holidaysmarts.shtm

Online shipping claims are governed by the FTCís Mail or Telephone Order Rule, which requires that sellers ship orders to buyers within the time stated in the ad, or, if no time is stated, within 30 days after receiving the order. The FTC staff letters to e-tailers remind merchants that if they are unable to ship, for example, within a promised ď48 hourĒ period, they must notify their customers within that period and give them the option to cancel their orders.

-- Michael

Jim40
02-01-2009, 12:45 PM
LanWorld does this but they let you know up front.

That has also been my experience with them.

GrayWolf09
02-01-2009, 4:18 PM
My experience with LanWorld is that they are reputable but:

I got my Stag upper in 7 weeks.

I am still waiting for my Magpul stock.

They charge your card immediately.

They ship when stuff is in stock.

If you can live with that OK. If not don't.

Army GI
02-01-2009, 7:51 PM
For large purchases (over $100) I prefer a vendor charge my CC the day I make my order. If not, I usually end up buying stuff and the credit is not there when they decide to ship.

97F1504RAD
02-12-2009, 12:40 PM
Here's how I look at it. If you call them and they tell you 6 month wait and you say that cool no problem They charge the card and all is good. This helps prevent you from finding a deal elsewhere or changing your mind in 3 months then they get stuck with a gun or what have you that you committed to buying.

I just put a order in for a gun with them and am not worried at this point at all. they have a good rep and that is good enough for me. Considering most manufactures are backlogged at this point from 2 weeks to 6 months I think it is to be expected.

AlliedArmory
02-12-2009, 2:08 PM
i agree with them charging your card up front. it locks you in the sale. if you dont put anything upfront what says you just look for a better deal and buy somewhere else.

tacticalcity
03-10-2009, 12:48 PM
First, let me say I do not think this person is our customer, because the time frame sounds off. But I figured I would explain why vendors do this as standard operating procedure.

It's normal and unavoidable. You are ordering a custom built item. Your choices of customization may not appeal to others making it something they can not sell quickly to others, and inventory on the shelf is not money in the bank. Parts and labor cost money. They need to be 100% certain that you will be able to pay for your order. Not just today, but months from now when the custom product is finished. It has been our experience that if we do not bill upfront, a good 80% of our customers forget to plan accordingly and no longer have room on their card or budget when the product is finished and they have to back out of the sale. One or two orders like that are no big deal. 1000+ orders like that mean bankruptcy. So while you may be an extremely responsible person in 100% control of your finances, the majority of buyers out there are not. Especially in these troublesome times. Vendors have no choice but to plan accordingly.