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The Gunslinger
01-28-2009, 12:29 PM
Lets say someone had purchased an AR-15 in 1997. It had not been registerd as a AW. It's been in a safe for 12 years....Can it now be registerd or dose the lower reciever need to be switched with a OLL??

GenLee
01-28-2009, 12:34 PM
You have to switch the lower with an OLL. No other way around it. Unless the lower on it now is not on the list. Buuuuut I doubt it.

hybridatsun350
01-28-2009, 1:01 PM
Unless the current receiver is an OLL than it is an "assault weapon" and is a felony to possess.

pwall
01-28-2009, 1:05 PM
oops

Seesm
01-28-2009, 1:12 PM
Someone is going to jail... JK :)

I will buy ALL the parts except the bad boy lower... PM me.. :)

domokun
01-28-2009, 1:43 PM
Lets say someone had purchased an AR-15 in 1997. It had not been registered as a AW. It's been in a safe for 12 years....Can it now be registered or dose the lower receiver need to be switched with a OLL??

The registration period has expired. If it wasn't registered during the registration period, they're SOL. Additionally, they're in felony possession of an unregistered AW. The lower receiver should be stripped down completely to just the lower receiver and a competent lawyer should be contacted to arrange for the surrender of the unregistered AW lower on their behalf. All the remaining/left over parts could be used to build up a replacement off-list AR-15 style rifle.

TZL
01-28-2009, 1:45 PM
can you sell the reciever out of state? it might have some value

ohsmily
01-28-2009, 1:47 PM
can you sell the reciever out of state? it might have some value

You have got to be kidding me.....Dude, if someone is in possession of an unreg'ed listed receiver, making $150.00 bucks by selling the receiver out of state should be the last thing on their mind.

That's like saying, hey, if this guy killed somebody and still has the body in his freezer, can't he make some money by selling the kidneys?

To answer your question, as long as he possesses that receiver in the state, it is an ongoing criminal act. Shipping it would be another criminal act. The receiver, if it is listed, should be destroyed. (this doesn't undo the crime that was committed, but it makes it harder to prosecute if the receiver is gone and destroyed).

GenLee
01-28-2009, 1:48 PM
can you sell the reciever out of state? it might have some value

NO NO NO.

Mississippi
01-28-2009, 1:58 PM
OMG! Why would people want to try and sell a lower that is almost worthless in a free state and go to jail over it?

Plus this is the internet! Why tell the world that "somebody" "might" have an AW in their safe. :rolleyes:

Bug Splat
01-28-2009, 2:37 PM
Strip the rifle and cut the lower into little pieces and dump in a dumpster miles from your house.

RobG
01-28-2009, 2:47 PM
Find someone with an acetylene torch and melt away:43:

Dragunov
01-28-2009, 2:51 PM
Hide it.

Casual Observer
01-28-2009, 3:23 PM
Hypothetically, if this these lowers were part of someone's estate after passing away, there is a limited window (90 days?) where possession is OK to allow the family/ inheritors to properly dispose of them or take/sell them out of state.

X-NewYawker
01-28-2009, 3:26 PM
Strip, then DESTROY the receiver.
OLL Lower, compliant gun.

reyna12
01-28-2009, 3:26 PM
Like what everyone else has said,

In a hypothetical situation, one would go out and DROS a new OLL, strip the rifle down and replace the current lower with your new one. Then destroy the old lower and forget you even possessed it.

Lets say someone had purchased an AR-15 in 1997. It had not been registerd as a AW. It's been in a safe for 12 years....Can it now be registerd or dose the lower reciever need to be switched with a OLL??

X-NewYawker
01-28-2009, 3:27 PM
Like what everyone else has said,

In a hypothetical situation, one would go out and DROS a new OLL, strip the rifle down and replace the current lower with your new one. Then destroy the old lower and forget you even possessed it.

Hypothetically --

Today!

bohoki
01-28-2009, 4:23 PM
Find someone with an acetylene torch and melt away:43:

got to be careful with that the fumes off aluminum are toxic

you dont need to torch it a ball peen hammer to the mag well does wonders

zuchaka
01-28-2009, 4:43 PM
transporting it around even if you have no intention or crossing a state line to go sell it brings with it other charges (someone correct me if i am wrong please)

so in case it was not clear by what everyone else said, get someone with a

acetylene torch to come to your place and destroy it , at your place rather than risk more even more jail time



look at is this way......... after you have destroyed the lower......at least you got yourself a .... AR kit, go buy a OLL list lower and mag lock and you have an AR.....

better than being dumb and risking so much over one firearm

pfl101
01-28-2009, 4:50 PM
Call Jason Davis at Trutanich-Michel immediately. He or Chuck Michel are probably the best guys to go to--they helped to write the bill I refer to below. Alternatively, Bruce Colodny is a good attorney in the gun world as well.

I'd be keeping it quiet until you get the thing legally turned over. I believe the bill that helps do this is AB 2728.

As for selling the parts, once you've stripped the lower, keep the parts, as well as the entire upper. No need exists to get rid of them.

Hitman
01-28-2009, 5:19 PM
You can make a very nice Keychain accessory.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v397/ar15hitman/Misc/DSCF0011-1.jpg

JeffM
01-28-2009, 5:27 PM
It has been said several times in many posts:

Possession is a wobbler (could be charged as a misdemeanor or a felony depending on the circumstances).

Transportation is a flat out felony.

Destruction does not erase the prior crime of possession.

Having a competent attorney arrange to surrender it to a law enforcement agency is the best way to cover ones butt.

randy
01-28-2009, 5:28 PM
Somebody is in possesion of this so they can continue on keeping it where it is and hope not to get caught. They can throw it in the trunk drive it to Nevada and spend a bunch of money and time to sell it for not much money unless it's a Colt then it goes way up in value. Or they can strip it and bust it with a hammer and sell it for scrap.

1911man
01-28-2009, 5:28 PM
Why could someone sell it out of state? Second question I've heard that there are a lot of unregistered AW out there in CA something like only one third off all AW were ever registered. Is this true?

Gryff
01-28-2009, 5:35 PM
Putting aside issues of transporting an unregistered assault weapon, can you (a full-time California resident) store a rifle or pistol at an FFL in Nevada?

And if yes, can you sell it to someone in another state and ship it from Nevada?

pfl101
01-28-2009, 5:41 PM
Most of the guns now "listed" are unregistered, from what I've read here and elsewhere. I know of at least one person who spontaneously admitted they have a Colt AR-15 sitting on the floor of their closet. I told the dude to keep that info to himself as it's a felony/misdemeanor. He never shot it, and it's been his since 1994!

Another person I spoke to yesterday was under the impression that he husband's Type 56 was legal because they bought it before the ban date set in! Needless to say, I had to let her know of this site and to keep this stuff quiet while they decide what to do with it. Apparently they've been using it in the desert all these years without any problems. Regardless, I gave them the same advice I would give anyone else in this situation: ditch the item via a competent attorney, and buy something from CWS or the equivalent before Obama focuses on the issue and blows it for the rest of us.

Finally, even if you could get the lower to NV (or wherever), you'd still have to go through the DROS, which might somewhere down the road be used to prove that you had the illegal gun in your possession in CA.

JeffM
01-28-2009, 5:52 PM
Putting aside issues of transporting an unregistered assault weapon, can you (a full-time California resident) store a rifle or pistol at an FFL in Nevada?

And if yes, can you sell it to someone in another state and ship it from Nevada?

That's a big elephant to overlook, but yea, if it's already out of state you can store it like any other property, in accordance with the laws of the state it's in. At an FFL, at a friend or relative's house, in a storage unit that allows it, etc, etc, etc.

I'm not as familiar with sales out of state, especially by non-residents of that state, but IIRC the DROS is only for California buyers. A buyer in another state would have to comply with whatever his or her state laws require.

If there was ever an issue with the gun, the 4473 trail could be followed to find you at some point in the chain showing that you owned it, so you should be able to articulate the legal way in which it was stored and then sold.

Finally, even if you could get the lower to NV (or wherever), you'd still have to go through the DROS, which might somewhere down the road be used to prove that you had the illegal gun in your possession in CA.

X-NewYawker
01-28-2009, 6:04 PM
Help! I haven't been to the back of my safe in decades and I was cleaning it out and found a SIG 550, and HK-PSG-1, a Steyr AUG and an Armalite AR-10T that I bought before the ban but there was so much stuff in from of my safe I forgot to register them --

Any suggestions for the quickest way to get completely boned for them, here on this PUBLIC FORUM?
:hammer:

Cru Jones
01-28-2009, 6:09 PM
Did the OP ever say whether the lower was on the Kasler List? If it is not on the list, is it still a hot potato?

Casual Observer
01-28-2009, 6:27 PM
Help! I haven't been to the back of my safe in decades and I was cleaning it out and found a SIG 550, and HK-PSG-1, a Steyr AUG and an Armalite AR-10T that I bought before the ban but there was so much stuff in from of my safe I forgot to register them --

Any suggestions for the quickest way to get completely boned for them, here on this PUBLIC FORUM?
:hammer:

Don't forget about the unregistered auto sears, sawed off shotguns, switchblades and blow guns ;)

Gryff
01-28-2009, 6:31 PM
If there was ever an issue with the gun, the 4473 trail could be followed to find you at some point in the chain showing that you owned it

When was the 4473 process started? It's my understanding that the California government doesn't necessarily know what rifles you owned before a certain date.

EBR Works
01-28-2009, 6:31 PM
Can we sticky this thread so these posts will cease?

tazmanian devil dog
01-28-2009, 7:07 PM
You have got to be kidding me.....Dude, if someone is in possession of an unreg'ed listed receiver, making $150.00 bucks by selling the receiver out of state should be the last thing on their mind.

That's like saying, hey, if this guy killed somebody and still has the body in his freezer, can't he make some money by selling the kidneys?

To answer your question, as long as he possesses that receiver in the state, it is an ongoing criminal act. Shipping it would be another criminal act. The receiver, if it is listed, should be destroyed. (this doesn't undo the crime that was committed, but it makes it harder to prosecute if the receiver is gone and destroyed).

Why can't he drive it himself out of state rather than shipping it? People do it all the time. Just drive carefully and hide the thing in the trunk or somewhere the nice chp officer won't see it right off the bat. I'm not trying to encourage illegal behavior, he is already doing that himself. It just seems a shame to destroy a perfectly good lower. So, again, why not just drive it out of state and then sell it or store it? What's the BFD?

Max-the-Silent
01-28-2009, 7:11 PM
Other posters have pointed you in the right direction, but stripping the thing down should best be done asap, and that lower is nothing but a problem waiting to happen.

Don't take a chance on it.

Max-the-Silent
01-28-2009, 7:15 PM
Why can't he drive it himself out of state rather than shipping it? People do it all the time. Just drive carefully and hide the thing in the trunk or somewhere the nice chp officer won't see it right off the bat. I'm not trying to encourage illegal behavior, he is already doing that himself. It just seems a shame to destroy a perfectly good lower. So, again, why not just drive it out of state and then sell it or store it? What's the BFD?

That's what David Koresh thought right before the world of federal LE caved in on him.

There's an old saying:

Law Enforcement can make every mistake in the book, all you have to do is make one.

Why chance a felony beef that would end your Second Amendment rights?

JeffM
01-28-2009, 7:17 PM
What's the BFD?

There are two letters right with your post. The "BF" is a big deal when you share a cell with Bubba.

zuchaka
01-28-2009, 7:18 PM
Why can't he drive it himself out of state rather than shipping it? People do it all the time. Just drive carefully and hide the thing in the trunk or somewhere the nice chp officer won't see it right off the bat. I'm not trying to encourage illegal behavior, he is already doing that himself. It just seems a shame to destroy a perfectly good lower. So, again, why not just drive it out of state and then sell it or store it? What's the BFD?

I don't have the law in front of me, but the BFD is that, now its transportation, as opposed to just posession, that's even more serious

EBR Works
01-28-2009, 7:19 PM
Why can't he drive it himself out of state rather than shipping it? People do it all the time. Just drive carefully and hide the thing in the trunk or somewhere the nice chp officer won't see it right off the bat. I'm not trying to encourage illegal behavior, he is already doing that himself. It just seems a shame to destroy a perfectly good lower. So, again, why not just drive it out of state and then sell it or store it? What's the BFD?

Meet your new roommates!

http://cosmodromemag.com/files/oz.jpg

X-NewYawker
01-28-2009, 7:21 PM
I can't believe how many people were recommending things which were illegal. What is this site coming to?

And do you know who buys G-Series FAL FA uppers?

SJgunguy24
01-28-2009, 7:27 PM
Wow with all these "Hey my buddy found this (any illegal firearm here)" posts..........Ya'll think that maybe some L.E.A. might be "fishing"?????

Just wonderin'

Max-the-Silent
01-28-2009, 7:28 PM
I can't believe how many people were recommending things which were illegal. What is this site coming to?

And do you know who buys G-Series FAL FA uppers?

You must be reading my mail.

Recently a guy that knows I'm a FAL guy asked me if I ever ran across a stripped G FAL receiver.

I told him that I've never seen a stripped G for sale ever, but did see a stripped sear-cut 50.00 receiver once back in the mid-eighties. I then reminded him that even if one was around, he couldn't legally buy the thing anyway - his reply was that he thought the G would be off-list!

I gave him some counseling.

pfl101
01-28-2009, 7:34 PM
"I can't believe how many people were recommending things which were illegal. What is this site coming to?"

I don't know but I caught a bit of flack yesterday when someone accused me of being unable to pick up on sarcasm. I'm pretty sure that most, if not all, people proposing illegal activities are kidding, but with the Carolyn McCarthies of the world looking at everything on the web, it's not a useful thing to do, IMHO.

"Wow with all these "Hey my buddy found this (any illegal firearm here)" posts..........Ya'll think that maybe some L.E.A. might be "fishing"?????

Just wonderin'"

Wouldn't be at all surprised, my friend. Most of the posters are brand-new (as was I in December, I know), and they're asking essentially the same thing.

Kestryll
01-28-2009, 7:41 PM
A friendly reminder from your friend, The Rules...
6) The suggesting or advocating of illegal activities is not allowed.
The suggesting or advocating of illegal activities is not allowed. It is understood that some things may be said in jest, if there is a question of intent your post will be removed until we can make sure it was in jest.
Repeated suggesting or advocating of illegal activities will result in first a warning, then time off and finally closure of the account.


IF, and we don't know for sure yet, if it is a listed lower your options are:
A) Contact a lawyer and arrange to turn it in to the Police. Strip it first.

B) Strip it and destroy the lower with a saw, hammer or other implement of destruction in the comfort and privacy of your own home.

C) Do something that will result in a Felony, and possibly the loss of firearms rights and a new relationship with that special fella on Cell Block D.

Fate
01-28-2009, 7:46 PM
Wow with all these "Hey my buddy found this (any illegal firearm here)" posts..........Ya'll think that maybe some L.E.A. might be "fishing"?????'
One email or PM stating "hey I'll buy that off you" and it's GO time. I imagine an AW bust would look pretty good on an officer's resume.

JeffM
01-28-2009, 7:53 PM
One email or PM stating "hey I'll buy that off you" and it's GO time. I imagine an AW bust would look pretty good on an officer's resume.

If he wanted to sell just the upper and internals I'm sure he'd have no problem finding a buyer.

I'd bite if the price was right :)

pfl101
01-28-2009, 8:02 PM
"C) Do something that will result in a Felony, and possibly the loss of firearms rights and a new relationship with that special fella on Cell Block D."

Outside this state, Colt and other listed lowers are pretty commonplace. They won't net you even enough to pay for the gas to NV/AZ/etc., never mind the legal bills if you get pulled over along the way and popped.

It's just not worth it.

Dump the damn thing via Trutanich-Michel and buy some from:

J&R...
RK...
CWS...
Gun Runners...

5968
01-28-2009, 9:02 PM
Wow with all these "Hey my buddy found this (any illegal firearm here)" posts..........Ya'll think that maybe some L.E.A. might be "fishing"?????

Just wonderin'

I was thinking the same thing. I don't know why people are asking questions to which they already know the answer to (at least it seems in some cases).

Seesm
01-28-2009, 9:38 PM
So your telling if I said "I'll take it" I am going to jail? :) JUST kidding...

I will take EVERYTHING "except" the illegal stripped lower ...cash in hand. :)

Vinz
01-28-2009, 11:27 PM
who was it that used to say...you can legaly transport dead hookers in your trunk as long as your tailights are working?

Not a good idea in every sence.

Vinz

randy
01-29-2009, 1:15 AM
I have some questions. If the person contact the lawyers what does that do for him? Does he have to take it to their office? That would be transporting same as taking it out of state. If the lawyers take possession of it are they not breaking the law? I don't recall ever hearing that lawyers are exempt. Do the lawyers contact the local PD and have them go to the guys house to pick it up? Do they go in a single car or send in the pj wearing crowd to generate some press?

Unless it's a complete Colt then the whole rifle would be worth more than the parts. Meaning if it is a Colt taking it out of state to sell it would generate a lot more cash than if it were the same gun made by Bushmaster.

Am I recommending he break the law I don't know if there is an enhancement of transporting the gun from just being in possesion.

If you chose to destroy it you don't need a torch and melt it into little globs. Just bust it with a hammer and you're done.

Jeff M you wrote: Destruction does not erase the prior crime of possession. Really? Prove to me when this was destroyed? Maybe it has been destroyed since 1999. Pretty weak.

Is transportation a bigger crime than just being in possession? Show me.

nobody33
01-29-2009, 1:34 AM
If your friend lives in San Diego I can drive my squad car over and "inspect it."

just kidding, I've got real crimes to fight, a gun in a safe for 15 years doesn't make my priority list. That being said the only time I have seen unregistered "assault weapons" found by us (the police) are on family disturbance calls and domestic disputes. My squad got one on a family fight last month. No one got charged with the possession of an assault weapon... but the whole thing will likely be destroyed.

So until you decide what to do with it, make sure everyone in the household is getting along.

Max-the-Silent
01-29-2009, 6:26 AM
I have some questions. If the person contact the lawyers what does that do for him? Does he have to take it to their office? That would be transporting same as taking it out of state. If the lawyers take possession of it are they not breaking the law? I don't recall ever hearing that lawyers are exempt. Do the lawyers contact the local PD and have them go to the guys house to pick it up? Do they go in a single car or send in the pj wearing crowd to generate some press?

Unless it's a complete Colt then the whole rifle would be worth more than the parts. Meaning if it is a Colt taking it out of state to sell it would generate a lot more cash than if it were the same gun made by Bushmaster.

Am I recommending he break the law I don't know if there is an enhancement of transporting the gun from just being in possesion.

If you chose to destroy it you don't need a torch and melt it into little globs. Just bust it with a hammer and you're done.

Jeff M you wrote: Destruction does not erase the prior crime of possession. Really? Prove to me when this was destroyed? Maybe it has been destroyed since 1999. Pretty weak.

Is transportation a bigger crime than just being in possession? Show me.


Destruction of evidence doesn't erase the crime.

Case in point involving firearms.

There is a case now pending up north where some fireman and law enforcement officers are charged with possession of machineguns. The weapons in question were "destroyed" while the case was under inestigation - (Tipped off?) When the raids went down the "destroyed" weapons were found in parts. The individuals involved hae been arrested and prosecutions are pending.

In the case of an AW, it's indeed different from an NFA weapon, but the same basic rules apply - if the weapon in question is required to be registered, and the example in question is not in fact registered, it is then contraban and subject to confiscation. If an investigation begins of the individual in possession and a subsequent search turns up a "destroyed" weapon that was the subject of the investigation, you can expect to be charged, and then it's up to you to spend the money required to defend yourself - "weak" maybe to you but the green spends just as fast as it does in any other criminal case.

As to transporting a unregistered AW:

"12280. (a)(1) Any person who, within this state, manufactures or causes to be manufactured, distributes, transports, or imports into the state, keeps for sale, or offers or exposes for sale, or who gives or lends any assault weapon or any .50 BMG rifle, except as provided by this chapter, is guilty of a felony, and upon conviction shall be punished by imprisonment in the state prison for four, six, or eight years. "

Simple possession:

"(b) Any person who, within this state, possesses any assault weapon, except as provided in this chapter, is punishable by imprisonment in a county jail for a period not exceeding one year, or by imprisonment in the state prison. However, a first violation of these provisions is punishable by a fine not exceeding five hundred dollars ($500), if the person was found in possession of no more than two firearms in compliance with subdivision (c) of Section 12285and the person meets all of the following conditions:"

deleted by PC police
01-29-2009, 6:37 AM
put the lower in a ziplock bag and bury it in one of the walls in your house and hope for better times as far as gun laws go.

AaronHorrocks
01-29-2009, 8:10 AM
That's like saying, hey, if this guy killed somebody and still has the body in his freezer, can't he make some money by selling the kidneys?

No it's not. Because one was a perfectly legal rifle that was cought up in an unconstitutional mandatory registration of arms specifically designed to make criminals out of ordinary citizens, and the other is murder.

markw
01-29-2009, 8:19 AM
No it's not. Because one was a perfectly legal rifle that was cought up in an unconstitutional mandatory registration of arms specifically designed to make criminals out of ordinary citizens, and the other is murder.

Isn't making it illegal to own after the fact ex post facto? If the guy lived in the sticks, no contact with the world, came in to town every now and then, bought the rifle legally and has had it forever, they would now charge him with possession of something he legally purchased all because he never registered it? I'm not a lawyer, but not only does banning _ANY_ firearm fly in the face of the 2nd amendment, banning them after the fact smacks of ex post facto.

ilbob
01-29-2009, 8:41 AM
Dissassemble it and cut the lower into multiple pieces. Then he no longer has a firearm at all.

My guess is there may be some magazines that accompany the AR that may be at issue as well.

Too bad he did not realize there was a problem and either register it in time or get it out of state. No law against storing it out of state.

Hoop
01-29-2009, 8:42 AM
Isn't making it illegal to own after the fact ex post facto? If the guy lived in the sticks, no contact with the world, came in to town every now and then, bought the rifle legally and has had it forever, they would now charge him with possession of something he legally purchased all because he never registered it? I'm not a lawyer, but not only does banning _ANY_ firearm fly in the face of the 2nd amendment, banning them after the fact smacks of ex post facto.

That would make sense, but this is California.

Just because it was legal when it was purchased doesn't mean it's legal now.

It all depends on whether or not the DA is a nut.

The Director
01-29-2009, 8:46 AM
What I don't get is why people don't use common sense on the internet. It's a public place - If you suddenly realize you are in possession of something illegal, then for christ sake get rid of it, hide it, or destroy it with the minimum of fuss without alerting 25,000 people that you have it.

No one is fooled by "Let's just pretend I have a..." or "I know a guy who has a"

Use a little common sense and OPSEC, people.

ilbob
01-29-2009, 8:47 AM
If there was ever an issue with the gun, the 4473 trail could be followed to find you at some point in the chain showing that you owned it, so you should be able to articulate the legal way in which it was stored and then sold.

They would have to prove the owner had it in state after the date it was supposed to be registered. The 4473 trail only proves the owner had it at one time. And if the lower was destroyed along the way, the other parts are meaningless unless there was some way to prove when the lower was destroyed. If the thing is gone, chances are no one will care. But bringing it up on a public forum is about as dumb an idea as there is.

AaronHorrocks
01-29-2009, 8:48 AM
Isn't making it illegal to own after the fact ex post facto? If the guy lived in the sticks, no contact with the world, came in to town every now and then, bought the rifle legally and has had it forever, they would now charge him with possession of something he legally purchased all because he never registered it? I'm not a lawyer, but not only does banning _ANY_ firearm fly in the face of the 2nd amendment, banning them after the fact smacks of ex post facto.

Your example happens all the time. Infact even many many people that lived in cities and followed the news didn't know they had to register their "assault weapons". Some thought that they bought it legally, they kept thier receipt, and it went through DROS, so it's okay.

This is exactly why we need to oppose all types of registration. No negotiation. Period. It's all unconstitutional, and the real criminals are the politicians.

EBR Works
01-29-2009, 8:52 AM
No one is fooled by "Let's just pretend I have a..." or "I know a guy who has a"


http://www.omnicontests.com/hearst/files/hearst/omnicontests/entry/1226/%7B2615CE32-36F5-4350-8030-F3C91BF6BE5E%7D.jpg

X-NewYawker
01-29-2009, 8:54 AM
What I don't get is why people don't use common sense on the internet. It's a public place - If you suddenly realize you are in possession of something illegal, then for christ sake get rid of it, hide it, or destroy it with the minimum of fuss without alerting 25,000 people that you have it.

No one is fooled by "Let's just pretend I have a..." or "I know a guy who has a"

Use a little common sense and OPSEC, people.

Again, a reminder, that every time I have called the DOJ with a firearm question, they had THIS SITE up on their computers while we spoke and referred to posts I was looking at.

Think.

Max-the-Silent
01-29-2009, 8:58 AM
If you melt it, there is no way to prove what it was. That machine gun case, if the idiot had melted them into a block, how could you possibly prove what they were?

The bigger question is: Why put yourself and your Second Amendment rights at jeopardy?

You can spend your life savings and then some proving that you're "right" when you are "right" - and it goes no different when you're not in the "right" with associated risks that nobody needs.

If you wish to put yourself in that position, by all means, go ahead.

If you're smart enough to learn from the experiences of others that have gone through the same process, forget about destroying evidence and concentrate on getting clear legally.

It will be so much cheaper in the long run.

oldrifle
01-29-2009, 9:07 AM
Personally I would just strip it down, take a band saw to the receiver, make sure there is no way to read the serial, then bury the pieces. All you need to do is buy an OLL and reassemble it. Small price to pay to avoid a felony...

xrMike
01-29-2009, 9:21 AM
Destruction does not erase the prior crime of possession.

Having a competent attorney arrange to surrender it to a law enforcement agency is the best way to cover ones butt.I don't know any lawyer who works for free. What's it gonna cost in lawyer's fees to get rid of it that way?

RE: the prior crime of possession, yes, but in reality, what is the risk of getting nailed for that AFTER the item has been destroyed and disposed of? Miniscule, I'm sure.

Take a hammer to the thing, bust it up in several pieces, put it in your garbage (with no other identifying junk mail, etc), and let the garbage man bury it at the landfill.

The lawyer's fee you'll save could buy you several lowers at todays prices.

ETA: Or maybe just one Magpul.

tazmanian devil dog
01-29-2009, 7:24 PM
I don't have the law in front of me, but the BFD is that, now its transportation, as opposed to just posession, that's even more serious

Alright already, I get it. I wasn't trying to suggest illegal activity. All I was saying was I thought it was perfectly legal to just get the lower out of state. When I worked in a Reno Gun Shop, we had Kalifornians come over all the time AFTER THE STUPID BANS to sell their stuff. They were told to do so by DOJ. They were told either surrender it or get it out of the state. So I deeply apologize if I offended anyone.

And no, I don't want to meet a new cellmate either.

I think it probably best if i never comment on this particular subject again.

Sheeesh!

9M61
01-29-2009, 8:16 PM
Alright already, I get it. I wasn't trying to suggest illegal activity. All I was saying was I thought it was perfectly legal to just get the lower out of state. When I worked in a Reno Gun Shop, we had Kalifornians come over all the time AFTER THE STUPID BANS to sell their stuff. They were told to do so by DOJ. They were told either surrender it or get it out of the state. So I deeply apologize if I offended anyone.

And no, I don't want to meet a new cellmate either.

I think it probably best if i never comment on this particular subject again.

Sheeesh!

Actually, it is completely within the penal code to remove the lower from the state. At least as far as I can read.


Any person who (A) obtains title to an assault weapon registered under this section or that was possessed pursuant to paragraph (1) of subdivision (f) of Section 12280 by bequest or intestate succession, or (B) lawfully possessed a firearm subsequently declared to be an assault weapon pursuant to Section 12276.5, or subsequently defined as an assault weapon pursuant to Section 12276.1, shall, within 90 days, render the weapon permanently inoperable, sell the weapon to a licensed gun dealer, obtain a permit from the Department of Justice in the same manner as specified in Article 3 (commencing with Section 12230) of Chapter 2, or remove the weapon from this state.


Note the bold section.

This was taken from the Department of Justice's own "dangerous weapons" section on their website. Feel free to read it for yourself. (http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/dwcl/12275.php)

In short it means if you recently acquired an assault weapon, you have 90 days to do one of the following options:

1) Make it permanently inoperable. Which, you could do in theory.
2) Sell the weapon to a licensed gun dealer. I suppose that's possible in theory as well.
3) Obtain a permit (assault weapon registration). You cannot do this as it is past the registration date requirement and you do not meet the exemptions within Article-3. (Peace officer, as well as other unreachable exemptions).
3) Remove the weapon from the state. Obviously completely do-able, and quite possibly a good way for you to retain ownership of a firearm you do not wish to destroy or sell.

Do what you want with it. I'm no lawyer but I think all of these "melt it down" or "cut it up" or whatever outlandish things were said is just unnecessary. If it were me? I'd remove it from the State and retain ownership of a recently acquired rifle.

Seesm
01-29-2009, 8:23 PM
Your example happens all the time. Infact even many many people that lived in cities and followed the news didn't know they had to register their "assault weapons". Some thought that they bought it legally, they kept thier receipt, and it went through DROS, so it's okay.

This is exactly why we need to oppose all types of registration. No negotiation. Period. It's all unconstitutional, and the real criminals are the politicians.



That totally is what I bet happen... "Why do anything about registering it... I bought it legally"

Kind f-ed up.


I hate law makers that are retarded,

Dr. Peter Venkman
01-29-2009, 8:35 PM
There's nothing illegal about it. I'm pretty sure the 2nd Amendment does not have an issue with it. The government however, might think differently.

Turbinator
01-29-2009, 8:36 PM
Lots of paranoia in this thread. I think the OP knows what to do now.

Turby

tazmanian devil dog
02-02-2009, 8:07 PM
Actually, it is completely within the penal code to remove the lower from the state. At least as far as I can read.



Note the bold section.

This was taken from the Department of Justice's own "dangerous weapons" section on their website. Feel free to read it for yourself. (http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/dwcl/12275.php)

In short it means if you recently acquired an assault weapon, you have 90 days to do one of the following options:

1) Make it permanently inoperable. Which, you could do in theory.
2) Sell the weapon to a licensed gun dealer. I suppose that's possible in theory as well.
3) Obtain a permit (assault weapon registration). You cannot do this as it is past the registration date requirement and you do not meet the exemptions within Article-3. (Peace officer, as well as other unreachable exemptions).
3) Remove the weapon from the state. Obviously completely do-able, and quite possibly a good way for you to retain ownership of a firearm you do not wish to destroy or sell.

Do what you want with it. I'm no lawyer but I think all of these "melt it down" or "cut it up" or whatever outlandish things were said is just unnecessary. If it were me? I'd remove it from the State and retain ownership of a recently acquired rifle.


Thanks very much for posting that in my defense. I knew I wasn't smoking crack. With respect, some people are overly paranoid about DOJ.

ohsmily
02-02-2009, 9:43 PM
Actually, it is completely within the penal code to remove the lower from the state. At least as far as I can read. Did you read it, or just cut and paste something that you thought might apply after a cursory look??



Note the bold section.

This was taken from the Department of Justice's own "dangerous weapons" section on their website. Feel free to read it for yourself. (http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/dwcl/12275.php)

Are you kidding? The portion you quoted applies to firearms that were PREVIOUSLY REGISTERED AS ASSAULT WEAPONS or ones possessed subsequent to intestate succession or bequest or after a particular weapon has been declared to be an AW (must be taken care of within 90 days; 1/1/2000 was more than 90 days ago). The OP doesn't fit into ANY of the categories in the section, let alone the ones you put in bold. This doesn't cover people who "just forgot or failed to register" their AWs. Your absurd, stupid advice could get someone in a lot of trouble.
I'm no lawyer but I think all of these "melt it down" or "cut it up" or whatever outlandish things were said is just unnecessary. If it were me? I'd remove it from the State and retain ownership of a recently acquired rifle.

Really??? You aren't a lawyer? You don't say. You don't have to be a lawyer to read the section you quoted and see that it doesn't apply to the OPs situation that he stated in his first post.

You get caught traveling with it you will be popped with a big F for fail/felony.


I suppose I could be wrong here because I quickly read your post. But, it seems like you are completing ignoring the language of what you quoted and what the OP stated in his first post.

ohsmily
02-02-2009, 9:50 PM
Thanks very much for posting that in my defense. I knew I wasn't smoking crack. You sure about that??? With respect, some people are overly paranoid about DOJ.

DOJ BOF staff and attorneys read this site frequently. That is a fact.

JeffM
02-02-2009, 10:09 PM
I don't know any lawyer who works for free. What's it gonna cost in lawyer's fees to get rid of it that way?

RE: the prior crime of possession, yes, but in reality, what is the risk of getting nailed for that AFTER the item has been destroyed and disposed of? Miniscule, I'm sure.

Take a hammer to the thing, bust it up in several pieces, put it in your garbage (with no other identifying junk mail, etc), and let the garbage man bury it at the landfill.

The lawyer's fee you'll save could buy you several lowers at todays prices.

ETA: Or maybe just one Magpul.

I'm just saying what the SAFEST course of action is if found in this particular situation. I'm sure others would chose differently, but the law is the law, and a crime is a crime. Provable or otherwise.

As unlikely as it might be, I don't think that it would be impossible to prove the prior crime, even if you destroy the evidence. Better safe than sorry.

Librarian
02-02-2009, 11:07 PM
A summary of explanation and advice for this potential problem:

http://wiki.calgunsfoundation.org/index.php/Possession_of_UNregistered_California_%22assault_w eapons%22

Suggested edits?

ohsmily
02-03-2009, 9:17 AM
A summary of explanation and advice for this potential problem:

http://wiki.calgunsfoundation.org/index.php/Possession_of_UNregistered_California_%22assault_w eapons%22

Suggested edits?

9M61 and Tazmanian Devil Dog would do well to read that page instead of making up the laws as they go.

brando
02-03-2009, 9:19 AM
Ah yes, I remember hearing SO many people back in '99 anxiously spreading word to not register your ARs. Ten years later what do they have? A felony paper weight. Nice work.

9M61
02-03-2009, 9:47 AM
ohsmiley,

Relax. Jesus, christ. I understand, in theory, he has 90 days to do whatever it is he wishes to do. He's obviously over this, and he's going to be over this whether or not he delivers it to the local PD, cuts it up in his backyard, etc.

What I'm saying is, removing it from the State is a completely viable option.

ohsmily
02-03-2009, 9:51 AM
ohsmiley,

Relax. Jesus, christ. I understand, in theory, he has 90 days to do whatever it is he wishes to do. He's obviously over this, and he's going to be over this whether or not he delivers it to the local PD, cuts it up in his backyard, etc.

What I'm saying is, removing it from the State is a completely viable option. It is a mandatory felony as a opposed to a wobbler (potential misdo) for possession.

Huh?? I don't get it man. What you posted has absolutely no bearing on the OPs situation, NONE. It describes what someone can do who comes into possession of an AW in very specific circumstances. It does not include the OPs situation. You spent all that time posting the law and saying it protects the OP and saying "read it for yourself" as though you found some gem to protect the OP. You might as well have posted an excerpt of Maritime Law. Why did you post that section?

Getting caught transporting an unreg'ed AW is potentially a greater crime than just being in mere possession. Why you would recommend that someone do something that has a higher penalty than what they are currently doing is downright ridiculous. I guess we have different opinions on what is a "viable" option.

In the end, it is all about how risk tolerant someone is. Personally, I don't want to risk losing my right to own guns forever by trying to transport an illegal item out of state.

9M61
02-03-2009, 9:59 AM
So you'll just risk it while you transport it to the police station? Or risk it while you possess it during your "destruction" of that weapon?

And I do concede that I did post the wrong or inappropriate section.

82A1CAL
02-03-2009, 10:30 AM
Nobody33, Are you in that picture? :DIf your friend lives in San Diego I can drive my squad car over and "inspect it."

just kidding, I've got real crimes to fight, a gun in a safe for 15 years doesn't make my priority list. That being said the only time I have seen unregistered "assault weapons" found by us (the police) are on family disturbance calls and domestic disputes. My squad got one on a family fight last month. No one got charged with the possession of an assault weapon... but the whole thing will likely be destroyed.

So until you decide what to do with it, make sure everyone in the household is getting along.

http://www.omnicontests.com/hearst/files/hearst/omnicontests/entry/1226/%7B2615CE32-36F5-4350-8030-F3C91BF6BE5E%7D.jpg

longwaytofall
02-03-2009, 10:56 AM
So lets say you bought that same gun back in 97 at a gun store and it was dros-ed. Now they now for a fact that you have the gun. Once you do not register it during the period, they now know your have an unregistered assault weapon. How screwed up is that? The legal owner of the gun, who might live out in a cabin in the middle of nowhere, is now a target for getting his door kicked in an hauled off to jail. It would make sense if someone was able to register it at any time, by only showing the gun to a LEO and having him run the serial number and providing a drivers license. That way, you know the rightful owner is holding the gun, and it was bought before the ban by the same owner.

Gryff
02-03-2009, 11:05 AM
Ah yes, I remember hearing SO many people back in '99 anxiously spreading word to not register your ARs. Ten years later what do they have? A felony paper weight. Nice work.

They had the registration amnesty open until Gray Davis/Bill Lockyer took office. I'm curious what kind of response they would get if they re-instituted the amnesty for a 30- or 90-day period.

mxpatriot51
02-03-2009, 11:35 AM
Strip the lower and then destroy it.

$190 ain't worth your freedom or 1% of what it would cost to defend your freedom in court.

DedEye
02-03-2009, 1:18 PM
So you'll just risk it while you transport it to the police station? Or risk it while you possess it during your "destruction" of that weapon?

And I do concede that I did post the wrong or inappropriate section.

You still don't get it, do you?

"Risking it" while transporting the AW to the police station = risking a felony.

"Risking it" while keeping it in your possession while you arrange for an attorney to transport it to the police for destruction = risking an infraction/misdemeanor/felony.

One carries greater risk than the other.

Backcountry
02-03-2009, 1:19 PM
I love these threads where idjits post that they are felons for all the world to see. Some people...

Backcountry
02-03-2009, 1:20 PM
p.s. The OP's dog's days are numbered.

Librarian
02-03-2009, 1:21 PM
So lets say you bought that same gun back in 97 at a gun store and it was dros-ed. Now they now for a fact that you have the gun. Once you do not register it during the period, they now know your have an unregistered assault weapon.

Actually, "they" probably don't. The DROS system doesn't collect much information about long guns - Currently the process is

select long gun sale tab
enter number of guns purchased
choose whether this is a gun show sale
select waiting period exemption, if any
complete purchaser information


No serial numbers, no make/model/caliber.