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View Full Version : Cool idea I had to help gun rights...


wsh3
01-27-2009, 9:44 AM
I posted this in a different forum today, but it belongs here.


The solution to the guns issue IMHO is a federal law requiring ALL students who pass high school to take a 'gun use and safety' course where they have to actually fire lots of guns and learn how to use them and be decently accurate with them, and understand local and federal laws. Then the average person would see them as a tool, and as no big deal.

Ignorance breeds fear
We know where fear leads.

The cool thing is you could make a pretty good case to the anti-gun folks that this would be good and save lots of lives. If they went along with it they would be toast.


Isn't education always the answer?

bulgron
01-27-2009, 9:51 AM
Sounds expensive, especially the part where they shoot lots of guns. However, a class that provides the historical foundation for the right to arms, plus the modern stress on responsible gun usage, plus introductory safe firearm training that does not include actual ammunition is probably a great idea.

One of the most important aspects to preserving our rights is understanding what they are. IMO, this is exactly the sort of thing public schools should be forced to do. Similar classes should be given on the 1st, 4th and 5th amendments as well.

wsh3
01-27-2009, 9:53 AM
As long as they use them and get over the fear - its the fear that is founded in the lack of the experience I think that hurts us!

+1 on the amendments - I would have students 'exercise' those that were exercisable as well. Nothing like doing something to get over the fear of doing it!

7x57
01-27-2009, 9:55 AM
Impossible, as school policy is owned lock, stock, and barrel <grin> by hard-core anti-gunners. Your choices are private school or homeschooling.

The fact that parent's pockets are burgled to propagandize their own children is why I support vouchers.

7x57

yellowfin
01-27-2009, 10:30 AM
Which is again why I say we need to start kicking the hardcore anti gunners out of education.

BTF/PTM
01-27-2009, 11:58 AM
Always a good plan to educate youth on an issue. As said, however, it will never fly when it's attached to a school. The way to do it would be to set up a privately held program that operated much the way a junior college vocational class would operate. Participants pay some sort of tuition fee and supply their own ammo and pay for their range time during the designated training periods. Have classroom time with history basics on guns in America, crime education, legislation education, all that. If it was a geniunely educational thing that not only let them fire a gun but taught them the ins and outs of the laws surrounding them, it could be very effective.

gunn
01-27-2009, 12:42 PM
That's why they have Boy Scouts and 4H clubs, right?
-g

Bruce
01-27-2009, 12:49 PM
They used to have a firearms course offered to late teens. It was called the draft.;)

bulgron
01-27-2009, 12:51 PM
Do the Boy Scouts teach shooting skills and the ins and outs of our constitutional rights? Somehow I must have missed those things back when I was a scout.

bulgron
01-27-2009, 12:51 PM
They used to have a firearms course offered to late teens. It was called the draft.;)

LOL! A worthy quote if ever I've seen one.

BTF/PTM
01-27-2009, 12:58 PM
My busy lil mind is already working on an outline for how an educational course could be taught.

HunterJim
01-27-2009, 1:20 PM
Do you still have to pass the test on the US Constitution to get out of 8th grade in California?

jim

BTF/PTM
01-27-2009, 2:09 PM
Do you still have to pass the test on the US Constitution to get out of 8th grade in California?

jim
I Hope so. If not, it's one more thing that I'll have found to make me feel old. Way back in ol' 1994 I had to memorize all kinds of stuff in regard to our Declaration of Independence and Constitution before I could pass 8th grade history. Whether it was a State requirement I don't know, I was just lucky enough to have an awesome teacher who was big on the subject.

Grumpyoldretiredcop
01-27-2009, 2:11 PM
My kids' high school used to offer the Hunter Safety Course. No longer. Good luck in getting anything gun-related into most California schools; as someone has already posted, education in California is firmly under liberal control. Nice thought anyway!

JDay
01-27-2009, 2:36 PM
I'd rather see an entire year of US History in HS that is entirely about the founding of our country and explains our rights and the reason we have them. The crap they teach in school these days skips over that stuff pretty fast and spends more time on the civil rights movement of the 60's. We really need to have this stuff taught from grade school all the way through HS so everyone has a good understanding of their rights.

JDay
01-27-2009, 2:39 PM
Do the Boy Scouts teach shooting skills and the ins and outs of our constitutional rights? Somehow I must have missed those things back when I was a scout.

Here's one.

Rifle Shooting Merit Badge (http://www.boyscouttrail.com/boy-scouts/meritbadges/rifleshooting.asp)

JDay
01-27-2009, 2:41 PM
Do you still have to pass the test on the US Constitution to get out of 8th grade in California?

jim

I don't remember having to do this and its been fifteen years or so. Did have a really good teacher in grade school who made sure we learned all about the US Constitution however.

domokun
01-27-2009, 3:17 PM
Sounds expensive, especially the part where they shoot lots of guns. However, a class that provides the historical foundation for the right to arms, plus the modern stress on responsible gun usage, plus introductory safe firearm training that does not include actual ammunition is probably a great idea.

One of the most important aspects to preserving our rights is understanding what they are. IMO, this is exactly the sort of thing public schools should be forced to do. Similar classes should be given on the 1st, 4th and 5th amendments as well.

Ammo costs shouldn't be an issue if they use Airsoft guns in the class in place of real ones. ;) The safety and discipline requirements needed to safely operate a air/pellet gun should be the same as a real one.

nick
01-27-2009, 5:44 PM
Sounds expensive, especially the part where they shoot lots of guns. However, a class that provides the historical foundation for the right to arms, plus the modern stress on responsible gun usage, plus introductory safe firearm training that does not include actual ammunition is probably a great idea.

One of the most important aspects to preserving our rights is understanding what they are. IMO, this is exactly the sort of thing public schools should be forced to do. Similar classes should be given on the 1st, 4th and 5th amendments as well.

Quite a few countries already have or had something similar to the system he proposes. Quite poor countries, at that.

sleepur606
01-27-2009, 9:30 PM
Doesn't Israel require all citizens to serve a given amount of time in the military? Man or woman, tall or short, thin or not so thin?

How bad would it be to teach kids vocational things in high school again, even if they included basic gun use and safety.

I had to pass the CA State Exit Exam to graduate HS, that was in 2004. Of course, that didn't last very long, because certain people thought it was a racist test because it discriminated against people who had poor educations...but I could have passed it in 6th grade. The idea behind it was everyone had to have basic Math and English skills to graduate high school...makes sense, right?

Ah well. Somehow, civil rights means that everyone can vote, but not that everyone can protect their right to vote through armed resistance to a tyrannical government. Yay for the modern age.

Theseus
01-27-2009, 9:41 PM
LOL! A worthy quote if ever I've seen one.

+1000000

Pvt. Cowboy
01-28-2009, 9:22 AM
The solution to the guns issue IMHO is a federal law requiring ALL students who pass high school to take a 'gun use and safety' course where they have to actually fire lots of guns and learn how to use them and be decently accurate with them, and understand local and federal laws. Then the average person would see them as a tool, and as no big deal.

Hmn.

Learn to be accurate with guns in school? I can't see this becoming law.

Allow me to give an example of mandatory state requirements along the lines you propose, and where it leads:

When I went to high school in CA back in the mid-'80s, students were required to demonstrate and pass a swimming proficiency test before they got their diploma. Maybe some of you other old-timers remember this. I am unsure of whether this was a statewide requirement, or just in Riverside County, but I remember that we all had to do it. The swimming requirement had also been in place since the 1950s, I think.

Several years later, I asked a fellow that I graduated with who became a high school teacher in the same district where we went to school if the swimming proficiency was still a requirement. He said that they dropped the requirement because too many of today's kids couldn't swim and wouldn't even dare get near the water in some schools. Seems that the program started with the best of intentions (naturally) where legislators initially wanted kids to be able to know how not to drown when visiting the beach, but then the issue became political when it was discovered that 'rich' schools had fancy pools, high diving boards, swim meets, and water polo teams while the 'poor' inner-city schools barely even had working un-vandalized drinking fountains.

So, they passed a graduation requirement about 'swimming proficiency' which necessitated putting in pools in all the high schools at great taxpayer expense in the name of Equality. Some pools sat dormant and unused because the student demographic, for lack of a better example, weren't exactly interested in water polo, the diving team, or swim meets. In fact, the swimming proficiency test might as well have been a Base Jumping proficiency demonstration in those schools.

It wasn't until I entered the military and saw recruits having panic attacks during swim qualification that I even had a notion in my head that some people simply cannot swim and are stricken with terror by even the thought of getting into a swimming pool. Hell, just about every kid I grew up with had a backyard swimming pool and I never knew anyone who couldn't swim.

I can't see a handgun proficiency test working out any better in CA public schools.

DDT
01-28-2009, 1:06 PM
I graduated High School in 1985. I attended my senior year in CA and the first 3 in Michigan. I was also a Boy Scout in Michigan, had dropped out by Senior year.

In the scouts we had a rifle range at Camp and our weekly meetings were at the local Rod and Gun Club. Yes, we were taught to shoot in scouts. Actually most of us knew before but got a lot better at it and learned (in my case) better safety procedures.

In middle school we had 2 weeks of alternative classes every year. It was great, we could choose any of a number of classes. I took handgun safety in 7th grade and learned how to handle a 1911 and how to re-load. We loaded plastic bullets and fired them into a trap in the classroom.

I have said before that I believe national service is important for our youth. It should include firearms training. This will really help our youth who are so insulated today learn more about the diversity of our great nation and teach them what it takes to keep this nation great and free. I can only assume that spending a couple years in the Military or a para-military organization after high school will bring a wholly more mature group of youngsters to college. This would be good for our youngsters, good for our country and bad for those who would use our colleges and universities as indoctrination camps.

wsh3
01-28-2009, 2:05 PM
If people are unable to learn how to get past things that strike their hearts with terror then our civilization will be lost. Thats about all I'm gonna say on that one.

Theseus
01-28-2009, 6:42 PM
If people are unable to learn how to get past things that strike their hearts with terror then our civilization will be lost. Thats about all I'm gonna say on that one.

I am scared of that statement so I will hide!

:hide:

csmintel
01-28-2009, 6:49 PM
I posted this in a different forum today, but it belongs here.



Isn't education always the answer?

Actually it is required in russia, ukraine and other fromer soviet republics to pass military class marching, swimming, takedown/assembly of rifles and handguns, throwing a fake hand grenade that weights as the real thing. Shooting an AK-47 or 74, makarov pistol and a .22 rifle TOZ-8.

It lead nowhere. you can't buy a real handgun there, though you can git a semi auto 7.62x39 AKS-74U with folding stock and ...any count magazines ( detachable ). The only draw back is that when it's folded- it won't fire.