FEB 10 - Calgunners, Orange County CCW needs your help again

[Dan M.]

Last November 18th, supporters of CCW in Orange County flooded the Orange County Board of Supervisors meeting in protest of Sheriff Sandra Hutchens' new, restrictive CCW policy. Some of you were there (thanks again, BTW).

Issues came up about the repercussions of CCW revocation and how that might affect the records/security clearances of those CCW holders who are revoked. Sheriff Hutchens was to report back to the BOS after she met with the CA DOJ to determine what those repercussions might be and how to minimze the impact on citizens whose CCW licenses are revoked simply because she wants them to be.

On January 7th, she added to the BOS meeting agenda for January 13th that she wanted to appear before the Board and deliver her oral report on the matter. Six days wasn't much time to organize a group of CCW supporters to attend that meeting, but a dozen or so of the most ardent supporters managed to rearrange their schedules at virtually the last moment so they could attend the BOS meeting in show of support for CCW and to let their voices be heard on the revocation issue in particular.

You may have heard from the media about what happened at that meeting (link to Orange County Register editoral) http://www.ocregister.com/articles/rights-gun-sheriff-2283735-department-meeting, or saw rumors here on the forum, or even read the blog on the OCSD website. CCW supporters were met with an armed presence of law enforcement officers in uniform and plain clothes who questioned most if not all of them and physically searched several of them. The OCSD blog says only three were searched, but that is inaccurate. The number was higher.

Not only were they searched, but they were followed virtually everywhere in the building--they were surrounded when they were seated by officers seated or standing nearby, some of them were subjected to what they referred to as intimidating deameanor--bullying--from the officers, and one female CCW supporter was followed into the restroom and and back out again by a female officer who was clearly there only to shadow her. Keep in mind that only CCW supporters were questioned and searched--not the Union people who were also present at the meeting, or anybody else. CCW supporters were profiled by the green OCCCWS buttons they wore (like the ones worn at the meeting in November).

Sheriff Hutchens made a brief oral report, but had no official correspondence from the DOJ to back up her statements and was unable to answer some pertinent questions from the Board. Supervisors (Supervisor Norby in particular) expressed their disappointment at her lack of preparedness. She is to return on February 10th with a more complete report and a further clarification on her CCW policy.

When she appears before the Board again on the 10th, we want to present her with another packed out meeting room. We hope--no, we need--everybody who was at the meeting last November to come out again on February 10th. And we're asking you to bring a friend or two--we want more people there this time.
We want to do this for a couple of reasons. One, to honor the folks who attended the meeting on the 13th and were subjected to the discriminatory attention from the Sheriff for simply wanting to exercise their 1st Amendment right of freedom of expression; and two, to show the Sheriff that she was mistaken in thinking that her attempts to silence opposition would be successful.

One thing needs to be mentioned. In preparation for the meeting in November, there was talk about staging an Open Carry protest at that meeting. There was murmurs of it before this meeting as well (even though there was no real time to organize such an event). We want to thank Open Carry advocates for showing restraint in November and on January 13th as well by not protesting at the BOS meetings. We believe Sheriff Hutchens may have been hoping for such a protest on the 13th so she could attempt to spin it in her favor in the media. Open carry protests surely have their place and time, but such an event staged at these meetings would give the Sheriff some traction in public perception.

We need to continue to show respect at these meetings by being professional, and we need to make sure she and the BOS know that the issue of CCW policy in Orange County (many other CA counties plus lawmakers in Sacramento are watching what happens here too) is not going away.

We only have three weeks before the meeting on February 10th. That's not much time at all. PLEASE consider attending the meeting. Maybe you wanted to go last November, but couldn't. Here's your chance.

It'll likely be an all day affair like it was in November. That's just the way these things seem to work. It stinks. We know it and are that much more grateful to those of you who can attend. We'll post more info here as things develop. You can also PM me if you have questions and I'll do my best to answer them.

[IGOTDIRT4U]

Also, if you are close by and can't come to the meeting the whole time, try to hook up with a fellow CG'r or CalCCW'r and maybe they can text you when the agenda item is about to come up so you can pop over for a couple of hours to show support and possibly speak.

[RomanDad]

Im a fairly level headed guy. Im not one to fly flags upside down, or engage in other forms of chicken little hyperbole....

However, I was at the meeting on the 13th and what I witnessed sent a shiver up my spine. The intentional use of intimidation to silence political decent should not be happening in this day and age, and not in this county or country for that matter.

I truly feel a line has been crossed. And its one that I fear if we ignore may have long lasting and frightening implications for freedom.

[Blackwater OPS]

I would go but it might not help. I don't respond well to intimidation.

[yellowfin]

I'm putting it up on Facebook now.

Anyone else notice that Youtube and Google searches for California CCW end up having a lot more stuff on pro wrestling?

[Rad'04]

Curious, where is the meeting held?

[IGOTDIRT4U]

Im a fairly level headed guy. Im not one to fly flags upside down, or engage in other forms of chicken little hyperbole....

However, I was at the meeting on the 13th and what I witnessed sent a shiver up my spine. The intentional use of intimidation to silence political decent should not be happening in this day and age, and not in this county or country for that matter.

I truly feel a line has been crossed. And its one that I fear if we ignore may have long lasting and frightening implications for freedom.

RD, were you stopped by the SO?

Anyhow, a show of support is needed. Pass the word on. There are lot's of other boards that may contain 2A and CCW supporters. Just be sure to let them know this about respect for the BoS and the law, and we are all professionals when we go down to the BoS meeting room. No protesting or demonstrations are part of the plan, please.

[Python2]

I wish I could come, I am too far north, but I am posting it now at ProgunFilipino forum. We have members down south.

[odysseus]

That is thoroughly disgusting behavior by OC and those sheriffs intimidating honest legal people in open public proceedings. What a sham, what a shame.

.

[Annie Oakley]

Barring any unforeseen circumstances, I'll be there. Shall I bring my digital recorder, notepad and pen to take names ? I'm like Matt, I don't respond well to intimidation, and I think I would go to the bathroom and dare someone to follow me in. Trust me, she won't like it.

[Librarian]

Imagine, if you will, a certain southern Governor (http://www.encyclopediaofalabama.org/face/Article.jsp?id=h-1872) standing on the steps of a school, intending to deny entry to some students.

Recall the Federal Marshals present, to help dissuade the Governor.

Recall the First Amendment Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances. which certainly does apply to state and local governments.

Petition the Feds for a little help?

[SwissFluCase]

I am in Northern California, so I can't come. I do have experience in dealing with misbehaving town councils. They are setting up a trap for you. Turn it around. Here are some quick tips:

1. Already mentioned - Get as many people as you can ge there for the next meeting.
2. Have as many video cameras as possible.
3. If there are other hot button topics on the agenda, spread the word to other interested parties, so long as they will not oppose you. The more eyes the better.
4. Poster every gunshop, shooting range, or other venue you can.
5. If you know any attorneys, bring them.
6. If they try to violate the Brown Act, nail them. Sometimes the media will do it for you, but don't count on them.
7. Don't wear buttons or insignia until the last moment. If you are going to speak, you don't need a button. By the time they figure out your position, it's too late for them.
8. Other LEOs who will come with you are also worth their weight in gold. Double for firefighters.

There are some others, but I am a bit peeved to think of it at the moment. I cannot stand this kind of abuse.

Long story short, city hall once picked a fight with me. By the time I was done with them I had drastically changed politics in that down and they would not dare mention my name.

Dan M., PM me and we can talk. Maybe my story can help.

Regards,


SwissFluCase

[JSH]

I give my support. See you fellows that day.

[aileron]

I want to attend this... OC is where I grew up. So it matters to me. Even though I dont reside in OC anymore.

Guess I will have to take the day off.

[7x57]

Hmm. So plan a Calguns get-together afterwards and invite people down for the fun afterward as well as the meeting.

7x57

[awheelman357]

Here is an article I copied from another website which provides some more information on Sheriff Hutchens. I have not verified its accuracy. The article is pretty long but worth reading if you have an interest in concealed carry in Orange County.

U.S. Concealed Carry
"Armed American Report"

January 23rd, 2009

Hello, Friend, and happy Friday.
Listen, I've got another excellent issue of the Armed American Report (the free-est, most anti-B.S. newsletter on the web) for you, but first, a little update on the situation in Orange County, California.

Let me take a step back for a second. In case you hadn't heard, there's a new sheriff in town there in Orange County, and in her mind, a law abiding American Citizen "doesn't need" a CCW permit unless they have "a good reason".

You've probably guessed by now that "a good reason" has NOTHING... ZERO to do with protecting innocent human life.

That's right- to her (and all the people like her), handling large sums of money is about the only "good reason" for someone to need a CCW permit. What do I mean by that? Basically, unless you have to carry around Diamonds for your job, or transport a bunch of cash on a regular basis... your life means diddly squat to Sheriff Hutchens.

Well, I don't know about you, but I kind of feel like the life of a 7 year old little girl is a LITTLE BIT more important than ANY sum of money.

Maybe I'm the weird one... what do you think? ;)

I must be a little weird, because I also believe "wanting one" is a good enough reason for a law abiding American to want to carry a gun. How about you? Are you weird right along side me? I hope so.

Anyway, a bit of an update for you here from a good friend of mine, Uli Gebhard- a resident of Orange County. Uli is from Germany, and he's one of the people who the new Sheriff doesn't believe "has a good enough reason" to carry concealed.

I suppose being the sole provider of a beautiful, young family (including several children) doesn't make Uli's life any more valuable than a drug-abusing thug who'd shoot you without a second thought?? Anyway...

Here's Uli's update:

*****************
Update on CCW revoking Sheriff in Orange County, CA

Uli Gebhard, Suarez International Staff Instructor

Here is an update on the situation in Orange County, CA.

The latest developments -- if proven true -- would be alarming news in a long string of actions taken without any regard for the public and the local government.

Here is a brief review of the previous events.

Mrs. Hutchens employed a very covert approach to revoke 40% of the legitimately issued CCWs. She concealed the full scale of her actions until she had almost created facts.

She then proceeded to ignore the recommendation of the Supervisors who appointed her, as well as the concerns of her constituents who asked her to be more lenient in her approach.

She tried to circumvent the issue of having the mark of a revoked license on our DOJ records by generously offering that we could agree on having our licenses expire early.

The details regarding these items can be found in the linked previous newsletters and feature article.

During the last meeting on January 13 Mrs. Hutchens also ordered a large presence of uniformed and plainclothes deputies. Several CCW supporters were singled out and searched for weapons. The profiling and the overall demeanor of these deputies left the impression that this was attempt to intimidate her opponents. This is still pending further investigation, hence the careful choice of words.

A new issue has surfaced that is extremely disconcerting.

Allegedly a deputy used the security cameras in the in the administration hall to look at the personal notes of the supervisors during the meeting. He allegedly also used the system to get more information on the CCW-supporting members of the public on January 13.

Supervisor Norby's office confirmed on Thursday what the press had already picked up in an article on Thursday.

The full extend of these actions has yet to be determined. The fact that the Supervisor's office has enough insight to officially confirm these actions indicates how far out of line Mrs. Hutchens' orders were. Sadly, it fits into the overall picture of her past actions.

During the first public discussion on November 18, 2008 we emphasized that we wanted to resolve this issue amicably. Mrs. Hutchens ignored this option. It seems that we may get to a point now, where we can take legal steps to have a person removed from office that is obviously corrupted by power, and rather ruthless in her methods.

To resolve this situation, we still need your support.

Write to the Supervisors, and demand a full investigation of Mrs. Hutchens actions and of the funds that this issue has drained from the county.

John Moorlach: John.Moorlach@ocgov.com (Hutchens strongest supporter)
Janet Nguyen: janet.nguyen@ocgov.com (supported Hutchens appointment)
Pat Bates: pat.bates@ocgov.com (last + deciding vote to appoint Hutchens)
Bill Campbell bill.campbell@ocgov.com (voted against Hutchens)
Chris Norby chris.norby@ocgov.com (Currently the strongest opponent)

Write to the Governor and voice your concerns about a person appointed to Sheriff's position that may be employing methods to push her own agenda that are by no means options in a free and democratic state.

Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger
State Capitol Building
Sacramento, CA 95814
Phone: 916-445-2841
Fax: 916-558-3160 ( new number )

Please follow this link for e-mail
Closing this article, I would like to thank all who have responded to previous newsletters and sent their concerns to our local and state government. I may be overly optimistic, but it seems that we are beginning to see results.

*****************

Thanks Uli, and good luck, friend. Friend- make sure you email these people and keep the heat on!

[Dan M.]

Tomorrow the taping issue will be a big discussion item on the BOS agenda. Tune in over the internet and watch. Better yet, go down and watch in person if you can.

February 10th, TWO WEEKS FROM TOMORROW, is the meeting we're hoping that many, many CCW and 2nd amendment advocates, 1st amendment advocates, and people just plain interested in justice and fairness will show up and stand together in letting their voices be heard. California has gone too far down this road. Let Orange County be the turning point to reverse direction and start us on the way to enjoying the freedoms that our fellow US citizens enjoy in other states. Attend the meeting! Make a stand with us.

Board meetings are held at the Hall of Administration at 333 W. Santa Ana Blvd. on the corner of Broadway and Santa Ana Blvd. in Santa Ana. We're asking people to be there by 8:45 if at all possible.

From the South:

Take 5 Fwy north.
Exit on Grand Ave.
Turn left on Grand Ave.
Turn right on Santa Ana Blvd.
You will travel several blocks.
After you cross Main Street, the next light is at Broadway.
The white, five-story building across the intersection on the right is the Hall of Administration.
Drive to the end of the block past the building and turn right on Ross. Make an immediate right turn into the parking lot.


From the North:

Take 5 Fwy south.
Exit on Grand Ave.
Turn right on Santa Ana Blvd.
You will travel several blocks. After you cross Main Street, the next light is at Broadway.
The white, five-story building across the intersection on the right is the Hall of Administration.
Drive to the end of the block past the building and turn right on Ross. Make an immediate right turn into the parking lot.

[Dan M.]

The editorial staff at the Orange County Register gets it.

http://www.ocregister.com/articles/sheriff-permits-hutchens-2294660-law-gun

[Dan M.]

This intrusion, whether it was inadvertent or deliberate, into our privacy was unconscionable and grossly inappropriate.

http://www.redcounty.com/orange-county/2009/01/reactions-to-ocsdboard-room-se/

[Dan M.]

The red County Blog is really on top of the doings. Lots of good blogs.

So it is particularly disturbing when Orange County's top law enforcement official proposes to change expiration dates on County-issued permits to carry a concealed weapon (CCW). Yet this is the latest legal legerdemain being proposed by Sheriff Hutchens to take such permits away from law abiding OC citizens.

http://www.redcounty.com/orange-county/2009/01/norby-keeps-blasting-sheriff-h/

[Dan M.]

They appointed the Sheriff and they no longer trust her. That says a lot.

http://www.ocregister.com/articles/security-board-supervisors-2292661-norby-county

[Dan M.]

Don't be content to read about it in the paper, or see it on the news. Don't just say, "Good for those guys, standing up for their rights!" Come down to the meeting in person and say, "We're standing up for OUR rights!!" We need as many people there as possible. What is happening here can happen in ANY county in CA. Every county is one sheriff away from this.

Is that okay with you?

[RomanDad]

And this is what the OC Sheriff Department Command staff THINKS about CCW holders, and County Council members who support us, when they dont think anybody's listening.....

http://orangepunch.freedomblogging.com/2009/02/02/assistant-chief-hillmann-mocks-supervisor-nguyen/6718/

Please read the article and leave your comments/ recommend the article. Thanks

[Nick the Sniper]

Transcripts of text messages sent by Orange County sheriff's officials during a November 2008 Board of Supervisors meeting shows the law enforcement leaders using their cell phones to ridicule activists and even supervisors during a public hearing on gun permit policies.

The messages, obtained under a public records request by a group named Ordinary California Citizens Concerned with Safety, reveal a combative tone by sheriff's command staff toward the activists. Some county supervisors questioned whether that defensiveness triggered the large security presence that met activists when they returned to a January meeting seeking to again criticize Sheriff Sandra Hutchens' gun policies.

"We are locked in mortal battle…It is ugly. We will survive however," wrote Assistant Sheriff Mike Hillmann as he sat in the audience at 1:17 pm during the November 18 board meeting.

http://www.ocregister.com/articles/sheriff-hutchens-meeting-2297673-activists-county

[ANDREWMENDEZ]

Gotta love California! Who's meeting me down there??

[Eturnit3]

Im north of sac with a bum ride...anyone wanna pick up a hitchhiker?

[IAmASensFan]

I would go but it might not help. I don't respond well to intimidation.

Sit there, wear a button and a bow tie...thats all you have to do

[IAmASensFan]

Barring any unforeseen circumstances, I'll be there. Shall I bring my digital recorder, notepad and pen to take names ? I'm like Matt, I don't respond well to intimidation, and I think I would go to the bathroom and dare someone to follow me in. Trust me, she won't like it.

I am bringing TWO digital recorders!!! One for me, one for another, if required...wear a shirt condusive to a bowtie as well.

[IAmASensFan]

I am in Northern California, so I can't come. I do have experience in dealing with misbehaving town councils. They are setting up a trap for you. Turn it around. Here are some quick tips:

1. Already mentioned - Get as many people as you can ge there for the next meeting.
2. Have as many video cameras as possible.
3. If there are other hot button topics on the agenda, spread the word to other interested parties, so long as they will not oppose you. The more eyes the better.4. Poster every gunshop, shooting range, or other venue you can.
5. If you know any attorneys, bring them.
6. If they try to violate the Brown Act, nail them. Sometimes the media will do it for you, but don't count on them.
7. Don't wear buttons or insignia until the last moment. If you are going to speak, you don't need a button. By the time they figure out your position, it's too late for them.
8. Other LEOs who will come with you are also worth their weight in gold. Double for firefighters.

There are some others, but I am a bit peeved to think of it at the moment. I cannot stand this kind of abuse.

Long story short, city hall once picked a fight with me. By the time I was done with them I had drastically changed politics in that down and they would not dare mention my name.

Dan M., PM me and we can talk. Maybe my story can help.

Regards,


SwissFluCase


At the meeting on Jan 13, this was an unexpeced occurance. The Left Wing Social Workers were as offended by the SWAT presence as we were. Althought the ensuing complaints were founded on different values, the message was the same, "Shame on the Sheriff's Department for trying to quell our rights".

As for attorneys...the major error the OCSD made was to send revocation letters to a couple Attorneys...this action also triggered a defense mechanism in some who did NOT get letters, but saw a potential threat, none-the-less...

[IAmASensFan]

Transcripts of text messages sent by Orange County sheriff's officials during a November 2008 Board of Supervisors meeting shows the law enforcement leaders using their cell phones to ridicule activists and even supervisors during a public hearing on gun permit policies.

The messages, obtained under a public records request by a group named Ordinary California Citizens Concerned with Safety, reveal a combative tone by sheriff's command staff toward the activists. Some county supervisors questioned whether that defensiveness triggered the large security presence that met activists when they returned to a January meeting seeking to again criticize Sheriff Sandra Hutchens' gun policies.

"We are locked in mortal battle…It is ugly. We will survive however," wrote Assistant Sheriff Mike Hillmann as he sat in the audience at 1:17 pm during the November 18 board meeting.

http://www.ocregister.com/articles/sheriff-hutchens-meeting-2297673-activists-county


More fun reading is found here: http://www.occcws.com/?p=542#more-542

[cousinkix1953]

Orange county must be living in a police state, with a paranoid sheriff who spies on their elected conty supervisors. Those fools provided her with secret encryted police radios. Nobody knows whats really going on there any more. A paranoid sheriff, who worries about citizens hearing routine calls for police services, is the kind of GESTAPO chief, who will confiscate your guns too.

I must have gotten 40 e-mails about the CCW fight in Orange county. Thank God, that I don't live there. They harass California residents for weed; even if they are a registered medical marijuana patient, with a plastic card issued in another county as required under a state law called Proposition 215. What's to stop a thug sheriff, from harassing somebody with a CCW permit issued legally in another county. NOTHING!

[U2BassAce]

EVERYBODY WE NEED YOU THERE TUESDAY!!!!!!!!! Join us on the front lines of the CCW battle for the state!!!!! :chris:

This is going to be huge!!!!!

All we ask is you show up.

If you want to speak go for it. If you don't want to speak please show up!! If you fall in between and are not sure about speaking. Put in a slip and say simply you oppose the Sheriff's actions and support the previous speakers!!!

EITHER WAY WE NEED YOU ALL THERE!!!!

The only other thing I ask is you dress appropriately (business casual minimum or suit and tie) and respect the Board and the Sheriff. We are taking the high road on this as the opposition flounders in the mud!!!!

TOGETHER WE WIN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:80:

[U2BassAce]

Dan M. has provided the Board Meeting Directions

You need to be there by 8:45am. I will be there by 8:30 if not sooner. SOONER THE BETTER. There will be a line to get in so relax and look for those wearing the green buttons. There's every chance (high probabilty) Sheriff Hutchens will anticipate a strong showing of CCW holders and have her own supporters there to take up space and speaking time. We need to be there, IN NUMBERS - MASS QUANTITIES, as early as we can to make sure we have our say. MAKE SURE YOU FILL OUT YOUR SPEAKER CARD!!!

Board meetings are held at the Hall of Administration at 333 W. Santa Ana Blvd. on the corner of Broadway and Santa Ana Blvd. in Santa Ana.

From the South:
Take 5 Fwy north.
Exit on Grand Ave.
Turn left on Grand Ave.
Turn right on Santa Ana Blvd.
You will travel several blocks.
After you cross Main Street, the next light is at Broadway.
The white, five-story building across the intersection on the right is the Hall of Administration.
Drive to the end of the block past the building and turn right on Ross. Make an immediate right turn into the parking lot.

From the North:
Take 5 Fwy south.
Exit on Grand Ave.
Turn right on Santa Ana Blvd.
You will travel several blocks. After you cross Main Street, the next light is at Broadway.
The white, five-story building across the intersection on the right is the Hall of Administration.
Drive to the end of the block past the building and turn right on Ross. Make an immediate right turn into the parking lot.

Here is a Google Map! Google Map of BOS Location and Parking (http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?ie=UTF8&hl=en&msa=0&msid=108449529336923476330.00045ad64c73c608b3927&ll=33.749912,-117.871357&spn=0.004532,0.009613&t=h&z=17)

See you there!!!!:chris:

[Glock30]

How long did the last meeting go until? I would like to show up but would probably only be able to stay about an hour.

School starts that day at 11am.

[1923mack]

I will come. What item on the agenda is the sheriffs report? Does the Board have any specific action they are to take, or are they just going to listen to her? What is the procedure for public comment at these meetings? Can we talk after her report, or is public comment only at some time earlier? As other reader asked, any idea on time for this?

Craig M
Riverside CA

[U2BassAce]

You need to be there by 8:45am. I will be there by 8:30 if not sooner.

On 11/18 they moved the agenda item for CCW to the front of the line because of all the people that were there for that one agenda item. So hard to tell. The agenda item is number 22.

http://cams.ocgov.com/Web_Publisher/agenda02_10_2009.htm


Procedure is you get there at time above or earlier. You submit a slip for agenda item you want to speak on (pre meeting). There will be people there to guide you on what item is the CCW item. You get 3 minutes to speak and 3 minutes only. So practice your address before hand to make sure you are within the time allotted. You will be speaking after the Sheriff makes her presentation on the agenda item. Along with we hope dozens of others. I think it is first come first speak. But it could be random order too.

It is most likely going to be a long day. But if you can only show up for an hour or two please show up. At the 11/18 meeting they asked all in attendance that were critical of the Sheriff's policy to stand up very early in the meeting. It was a great moments when most the people in the chambers stood up.

If you have any more questions please ask away.

[RomanDad]

At the 11/18 meeting they asked all in attendance that were critical of the Sheriff's policy to stand up very early in the meeting. It was a great moments when most the people in the chambers stood up.



It was a great moment for some of us.... For me it was the moment they snapped the photo of my fat butt that ended up on Page 7 of the OC Register....

[bladerunner747]

What a clown...."Engaged in mortal kombat"....this guy must be an internet commando!!! :TFH::willy_nilly::80:

[gaucho750]

I really wish that I could take the day off from school and drive down there. All I can say is good luck to you all and I hope and pray, (that's right I said pray!!), that this sheriff is struck down by the city.

[1923mack]

Thanks for the Board Agenda and information. Question. I have been following this issue on this and other boards I read. I understand the issue and frustration. Do we have a specific thing or action we want the Board to do? I know we can gripe and talk and complain for hours, but what specific action do we want of the board. Fire the Sheriff? Direct her to issue more CCW's or ?? A show or force and gripe session is better than nothing, but the more specific we are the better.

[M. D. Van Norman]

Do we have a specific thing or action we want the Board to do?

The best case scenario is that the Board of Supervisors would use its influence to bring Sheriff Hutchens and her successors into line on the concealed-carry issue. Fair and lawful issuance of carry licenses would spare the county from a whole lot of grief in the near future.

[Dan M.]

The Board can't fire her or make her do anything. They DO control her budget, but doing anything to affect her budget could easily come back on them. The Orange County budget is pretty much in shambles right now, so any actions by the Board on any item affecting budget will be looked at VERY carefully.

We need people at the meeting to keep the pressure on the Sheriff to ease up on her CCW policy standard. If she matched Kern or San Bernardino county policies, that would be awesome. She seems to feel that those sheriffs (and many other CA sheriffs) are flouting CA law somehow, and that her policy is more "legal." The pressure most likely won't make her change, but it keeps the topic in the public eye and that's what is important because it will add to the pressure to ease her policy or risk being voted out next year. She says she trusts the voters to decide, but it's the voters she is pissing off. She believes CCW advocates are a small ineffectual group.


Thanks for the Board Agenda and information. Question. I have been following this issue on this and other boards I read. I understand the issue and frustration. Do we have a specific thing or action we want the Board to do? I know we can gripe and talk and complain for hours, but what specific action do we want of the board. Fire the Sheriff? Direct her to issue more CCW's or ?? A show or force and gripe session is better than nothing, but the more specific we are the better.

[1923mack]

Ok. That is understandable. I am willing to talk at the meeting, just wanted to know the general thoughts for the group. The more mainstream we can make CCW the better.

[N6ATF]

She seems to feel dishonestly claims that those sheriffs (and many other CA sheriffs) are flouting CA law somehow, and that her policy is more "legal" in a pitiful attempt to stave off prosecution and lawsuits. The pressure most likely won't make her change, but it keeps the topic in the public eye and that's what is important because it will add to the pressure to ease her policy or risk being voted out next year. She says she trusts the voters to decide while she knows as a proven anti-Constitutional incumbent, she is probably going to get maximum campaign contributions from members of every anti-Constitutional organization nationwide so she can blanket every TV station, newspaper, and mailbox with nonsense campaign advertisements, but it's the voters she is pissing off. She believes CCW advocates are a small ineffectual group.

Fixed.

[Dan M.]

Fixed.

Heh-heh! Thanks.

[xxdabroxx]

is there going to be another live stream? and if so does anyone know there way around the county website enough to find it?

[mdhpper]

See you guys tomorrow.

[Dan M.]

is there going to be another live stream? and if so does anyone know there way around the county website enough to find it?

Follow this link and then click on Live Meeting once you're there. The meeting starts at 9:30, not sure when they'll start streaming.

http://egov.ocgov.com/ocgov/Government/Board%20of%20Supervisors/Board%20Meetings%20On-Demand

[Glock22Fan]

Good luck to y'all. Be thinking of you.

[aileron]

It was a great moment for some of us.... For me it was the moment they snapped the photo of my fat butt that ended up on Page 7 of the OC Register....

Wear black this time. :p

Okay, I took the day off, see you all there.

[1923mack]

Just got an email from CRPA about the Feb 10th meeting. Good idea, but a few days late. Meeting is tomorrow! This Forum has been discussing and talking about the issue daily. Nice try CRPA.

[7x57]

Just got an email from CRPA about the Feb 10th meeting. Good idea, but a few days late. Meeting is tomorrow! This Forum has been discussing and talking about the issue daily. Nice try CRPA.

Let's be nice to CRPA. I think they're trying, but will take a while to get up to speed. What you said sounds sarcastic, even if you didn't mean it that way. I think the message should be a genuine "yes, that was a good idea, that's exactly what is needed--but we need you to be able to get these messages out quicker."

BTW, at the last NRA meeting I attended there was considerable discussion between reps for Calguns, the NRA, and CRPA about precisely the issue of communication. So they know this needs to work, but improvement will not come on internet timescales.

But I think it will come.

7x57

[Bruce3]

anyone knows how parking is like over there? do i need to bring some cash for parking?

[mdhpper]

Yes, bring cash.

[xxdabroxx]

streaming, are they going to discuss ccw after lunch most likely?

[shark92651]

They are discussing it now...

[yellowfin]

Net action: nothing.

[bulgron]

Net action: nothing.

Well, what they're going to have to do down there is keep the pressure on until the 2010 elections. If they let this slip out of the public eye, then she'll win election. If they manage to keep the controversy going so that there's a public perception of an arrogant sheriff's office that is disdainful of the public, then they have a chance to boot her.

'course, they need a viable replacement candidate first. Thus far, I've heard nothing about a viable replacement candidate.

[Bruce3]

just got back, and the general consensus of the Board of Supervisors was that Sheriff's Hutchens CCW permit issuing requirements are too strict and that safety of ones self is good reason enough. its sad that the Board want shall issue but have no power to make the Sheriff carry it out. it was a good experience hearing the 41 speakers today!

[yellowfin]

Can they change the expiration date of her term?

[Doggboy]

It was pretty funny when one of the speakers made the comparison to ending permits early and ending her term early, I wish I could have seen her face.:43:

[DC45]

So, should I try and "re-up" my expired permit?
By the way, I was able to watch and listen on the internet, live.