Militias illegal in California

[Gp100]

Militias are illegal in california.

[tommyid1]

we should start one. only we should call ourselves the peace love and puppys club. every time a politician lies a puppy dies. there are alot of politicians that need to pay. lol j/k

[MP301]

If you do start one, make sure you pack your bags and make nice to bubba when you get to jail, cause its not legal in CA. How this is possible I do not know, but it is.

I wonder if someone had the funds for a legal fight that they can get this law changed since it flys in the face of the constitution.....Give it a shot and when the law changes, Ill join!

[Liberty1]

Lots of posts on this already and usually from members with less then 500 posts :p.

[D53]

Just don't call it a militia, call it a club and maybe you can stay out of jail :D

[Decoligny]

We are already part of the Militia. The unorganized militia consists of all able bodied men within a certain age range. The organized militia (National Guard) consists of a subset of the unorganized militia

[Springfield45]

Dose any one know were in the state laws it says it is illegal to be in or have a militia in the Peoples Socialist Republic of Kalifornia. This seams odd to me since the founding fathers invisioned all able bodied men of age 17 to 45 to be in the militia weather they knew it or not.

[jamesob]

call it the mats club. ( Military And Tactics Shooting club.) the above post look under malitias in the p.c

[the_natterjack]

If you do start one, make sure you pack your bags and make nice to bubba when you get to jail, cause its not legal in CA. How this is possible I do not know, but it is.

I wonder if someone had the funds for a legal fight that they can get this law changed since it flys in the face of the constitution.....Give it a shot and when the law changes, Ill join!

PENAL CODE
PART 4. Prevention of Crimes and Apprehension of Criminals
TITLE 1. Investigation and Control of Crimes and Criminals
CHAPTER 3. Prevention and Abatement of Unlawful Activities
ARTICLE 6. Paramilitary Organizations

Cal Pen Code § 11460 (2000)

§ 11460. Teaching or training regarding firearms or destruction devices; Punishment

(a) Any two or more persons who assemble as a paramilitary organization for the purpose of practicing with weapons shall be punished by imprisonment in the county jail for not more than one year or by a fine of not more than one thousand dollars ($ 1,000), or by both.

As used in this subdivision, "paramilitary organization" means an organization which is not an agency of the United States government or of the State of California, or which is not a private school meeting the requirements set forth in Section 12154 of the Education Code, but which engages in instruction or training in guerilla warfare or sabotage, or which, as an organization, engages in rioting or the violent disruption of, or the violent interference with, school activities.

(b)

(1) Any person who teaches or demonstrates to any other person the use, application, or making of any firearm, explosive, or destructive device, or technique capable of causing injury or death to persons, knowing or having reason to know or intending that such objects or techniques will be unlawfully employed for use in, or in the furtherance of a civil disorder, or any person who assembles with one or more other persons for the purpose of training with, practicing with, or being instructed in the use of any firearm, explosive, or destructive device, or technique capable of causing injury or death to persons, with the intent to cause or further a civil disorder, shall be punished by imprisonment in the county jail for not more than one year or by a fine of not more than one thousand dollars ($ 1,000), or by both.

Nothing in this subdivision shall make unlawful any act of any peace officer or a member of the military forces of this state or of the United States, performed in the lawful course of his official duties.

(2) As used in this section:

(A) "Civil disorder" means any disturbance involving acts of violence which cause an immediate danger of or results in damage or injury to the property or person of any other individual.

(B) "Destructive device" has the same meaning as in Section 12301.

(C) "Explosive" has the same meaning as in Section 12000 of the Health and Safety Code.

(D) "Firearm" means any device designed to be used as a weapon, or which may readily be converted to a weapon, from which is expelled a projectile by the force of any explosion or other form of combustion, or the frame or receiver of any such weapon.

(E) "Peace officer" means any peace officer or other officer having the powers of arrest of a peace officer, specified in Chapter 4.5 (commencing with Section 830) of Title 3 of Part 2.

HISTORY:
Added Stats 1965 ch 1221 § 1. Amended Stats 1969 ch 804 § 1; Stats 1981 ch 795 § 1.



Start a Rod and Gun club, never ever wear camo, have nothing to do with "paramilitary" whatever that means.

Edited to add!

Oh, and please don't break laws, blow things up, talk about who will be put against the wall when the revolution comes. . . .

[jamesob]

http://law.justia.com/california/codes/pen/11460.html

[Liberty1]

Cal Pen Code § 11460 (2000)

§ 11460. Teaching or training regarding firearms or destruction devices; Punishment

(a) ....

Doesn't apply to a "militia" unless the crimes elements listed have been violated - several threads here have delta with 11460

The burden of proof on the prosecution is very high.

The minutemen, boy scouts, shooting clubs, re-enactors, even if a "Los Angeles Grenadier Guards Militia" were to form and drill with a paramilitary structure, are not in violation of 11460.

[MP301]

Just dont call it a Paramilitary Organization!

PC 11460
(a) Any two or more persons who assemble as a paramilitary organization for the purpose of practicing with weapons shall be punished by imprisonment in a county jail for not more than one year or by a fine of not more than one thousand dollars ($1,000), or by both that fine and imprisonment.
As used in this subdivision, "paramilitary organization" means an organization which is not an agency of the United States government or of the State of California, or which is not a private school meeting the requirements set forth in Section 48222 of the Education Code, but which engages in instruction or training in guerrilla warfare or sabotage, or which, as an organization, engages in rioting or the violent disruption of, or the violent interference with, school activities.
(b)(1) Any person who teaches or demonstrates to any other person the use, application, or making of any firearm, explosive, or destructive device, or technique capable of causing injury or death to persons, knowing or having reason to know or intending that these objects or techniques will be unlawfully employed for use in, or in the furtherance of a civil disorder, or any person who assembles with one or more other persons for the purpose of training with, practicing with, or being instructed in the use of any firearm, explosive, or destructive device, or technique capable of causing injury or death to persons, with the intent to cause or further a civil disorder, shall be punished by imprisonment in the county jail for not more than one year or by a fine of not more than one thousand dollars ($1,000), or by both that fine and imprisonment.
Nothing in this subdivision shall make unlawful any act of any peace officer or a member of the military forces of this state or of the United States, performed in the lawful course of his or her official duties.
(2) As used in this section:
(A) "Civil disorder" means any disturbance involving acts of violence which cause an immediate danger of or results in damage or injury to the property or person of any other individual.
(B) "Destructive device" has the same meaning as in Section 12301.
(C) "Explosive" has the same meaning as in Section 12000 of the Health and Safety Code.
(D) "Firearm" means any device designed to be used as a weapon, or which may readily be converted to a weapon, from which is expelled a projectile by the force of any explosion or other form of combustion, or the frame or receiver of this weapon.
(E) "Peace officer" means any peace officer or other officer having the powers of arrest of a peace officer, specified in Chapter 4.5 (commencing with Section 830) of Title 3 of Part 2.

[MP301]

The other problems with forming or joining a Militia is that it would attract all of the bubba knuckle draggers who give gun owners a bad name. Even if you can keep them out, you will still be portrayed as such by most people and the media as soon as they got wind.

I like the "Club" idea...... Besides, once you organize a Militia, are you no longer the "Unorganized" Militia and how does that effect things? Or is the term "Unorganized" just meant as a term for regular able bodied men, etc...and have nothing to do with it actually being organized or not?

Hmmmm... The Militia Club....?

[MP301]

Doesn't apply to a "militia" unless the crimes elements listed have been violated - several threads here have delta with 11460

The burden of proof on the prosecution is very high.

The minutemen, boy scouts, shooting clubs, re-enactors, even if a "Los Angeles Grenadier Guards Militia" were to form and drill with a paramilitary structure, are not in violation of 11460.

Yeah, but we know how the "burden of proof" has little meaning to DA's when they want to prosecute....even if they dont win, it sure costs you a bunch of money in legal fees.... They apparently have no financial constraints when they wish to prosecute something...

[the_natterjack]

Doesn't apply to a "militia" unless the crimes elements listed have been violated - several threads here have delta with 11460

The burden of proof on the prosecution is very high.

The minutemen, boy scouts, shooting clubs, re-enactors, even if a "Los Angeles Grenadier Guards Militia" were to form and drill with a paramilitary structure, are not in violation of 11460.

Absolutely, I don't think anyone has ever been convicted of 114600.

I personally would not join a militia.

[kermit]

The minutemen, boy scouts, shooting clubs, re-enactors, even if a "Los Angeles Grenadier Guards Militia" were to form and drill with a paramilitary structure, are not in violation of 11460.

Would your group of re-enactors have to be enacting past events (civil war, WWI or II, etc) or could you focus on future conflicts like the upcoming battle against Skynet (sure to involve urban conflict in US settings with modern weapons)?:TFH:

[fullrearview]

If you do start one, make sure you pack your bags and make nice to bubba when you get to jail, cause its not legal in CA. How this is possible I do not know, but it is.

I wonder if someone had the funds for a legal fight that they can get this law changed since it flys in the face of the constitution.....Give it a shot and when the law changes, Ill join!

well wouldn't this fall under heller and nordyke????

[Crazed_SS]

I don't want to start a militia,I was just wondering if there was one in california.

http://www.calguard.ca.gov/casmr/Pages/default.aspx .. or I guess you could join the National Guard.


Now if I was the president of the US I would fund militias in every state(why not? we give money to other countries) allow members to own and take home full-auto rifles and have a ccw permit as long as they where a member(I think that would get more main stream people in), also the leaders would be elected
by the voting public. Now every time the state passed a unconstitutional law the militia would muster and national-guard and police would fall under the peoples control "not the politicians" and the politicians who voted for a clearly unconstitutional bill would be removed, and elections would start in 60 days for there seats.

That sounds like a pretty dumb idea.

Will your militia be made up of judges or something? Who are they to up and decide what's consitutional and forceably remove elected officials? What happens if another militia disagrees with one militia's removal elected officials and decides they dont want to play along?

[Gator Monroe]

If this were 1983 I would join the Ronald Reagan Special task force (Riverside Ca. / Inland Empire) :eek:

[Crazed_SS]

Ok,not my militia,a state militia with the leader voted in just as our politicians are, and all americans in the state could join. Now you want to talk about judges, ok the state voted no amnesty for Illegal aliens in the 90's,sacramento said screw the people and found a corrupt judge to make it law. Now(I don't care one way or the other on this) but gay marriage was voted down and they found a judge to over turn the people. So you want to put your future in a San Francisco judge?

You're looking at everything from your perspective and viewpoint. Did you ever think for one second that people on the other side of these issues might think what they're doing is perfectly consitutional and what you want might be unconsitutional. If armed groups went out to oust elected officials everytime something didnt go their way, we wouldnt get very far as a nation.

EDIT: And yes, I'd rather a San Francisco judge make legal decisions rather than a mob of people with weapons.

[7x57]

What is missing here is the context in which the militias drilled. I'm going to be too quick to say "I think" or "so far as I've read" a bunch of times, so just insert it wherever you think it should be said.

Yes, we are all members of the unorganized militia, and yes the guard is a select militia under central control. And yes the founders expected the unorganized militia to be able to drill locally, pretty much without interference. That sounds a bit like the guys in Northern Idaho waiting for TEOTWAWKI (what the news media thinks is a militia, and what the CA penal code is aimed at), but it isn't because those guys are estranged from society.

What they wanted was something that doesn't now exist and cannot now exist because it requires a degree of cooperation by local government. The local militia would probably be the solid local citizens, drilling proudly in the town square, and commanded by respected locals. If it isn't exactly under the control of the town government, it is thoroughly compatible with it because the same solid citizens that make one work make the other work too. And the key is that the members are those with the most to lose if things go bad--shopkeepers who have everything they own to lose if the town gets shot up and burned, and so on.

*Their* militia requires an entire community, and served the entire community in fact as well as in theory. That's the part that we can't re-create without re-creating a community that fosters and values a local militia, and that's the part that truly kept the right of revolution from being used if there is any other resort. By the time the shopkeepers are willing to take up arms, you know things are truly at the last extremity (one can't help but think of the Korean shopkeepers with their SKS's in the Rodney King riots, BTW, but that wasn't collective action).

That said, California has something closer to the general militia than the regular Guard, and right now they're recruiting:

http://www.calguard.ca.gov/casmr/Pages/default.aspx

What is missing is local control and the fact that you can't report for duty with your privately owned select-fire M4, but other than that....

ETA: somehow I missed that someone already posted that link. :rolleyes:

7x57

[M1884]

Well, the Penal Code definition sounds like it is meant to outlaw private armies, which is a good thing; private armies have no place in a democracy. Check the history of Weimar Germany, and see what havoc was wrought by the rightwing Freikorps and their leftwing counterparts.

[Crazed_SS]

crazed SS,
Im already a veteran,and Im not in a militia or crazy,I also wish to
hear if you have a better way to stop the government from eroding our rights, all the safe guards you want are already in place, but california politicians have made the voting districts almost all Rep or Dem so neither party can be voted out called gerrymandering,

no matter how much you dislike your politician he or she can not be voted out, they are going to raise taxes on you ready or not here they come,They bail out there campaign contributers "WALL STREET" banks with the 40%/ 50% taxes they take from you,next you will have to pay more for the inflation,Obama even put some of those failed bankers in his cabinet.

Im a fan of the court system. If you feel your rights are being violated, find some like-minded individuals, form a good argument, and work within the system. Using violence or the threat of force should be reserved absolutely extreme circumstances. I dont think we're there yet.

You guys' idea of having an armed group kick out the elected officials seems extremely dangerous to me. Why even have elected officials if an armed group will just kick them out whenever they deem something to be in violation of the consitution? Why not just cut out the middleman all together and not have legislators, judges, elected officials, etc.. We could just let the constituional militia guys lay down final word on everything.. We'd probably end up with some sort of Taliban-style stuff rule

[Gp100]

how do you delete this thread? no one said violence, lets just kill this thread.

[yellowfin]

The hypocrisy of 11460 is that many of the committees of the Assembly frequently meet to discuss and conspire to sabotage the state and it's people's freedom (and have succeeded in many cases) yet are punished for none of it.

[jaymz]

Don't engage in instruction or training in guerilla warfare or sabotage, or which, as an organization, engages in rioting or the violent disruption of, or the violent interference with, school activities. And you should be good to go. Keep us posted on your progress.:D

[FreedomIsNotFree]

Not this again...

[Dark&Good]

If armed groups went out to oust elected officials everytime something didnt go their way, we wouldnt get very far as a nation.

USA doesn't get very far as a nation any more since armed groups don't go out oust elected officials every time those officials don't deserve to be elected.

[Seesm]

Man California does not let us do ANYTHING fun... :)

How about a golf club (not the club) but a hang out club... (NOT MILITIA) :)

[Macadelic4]

We are already part of the Militia. The unorganized militia consists of all able bodied men within a certain age range. The organized militia (National Guard) consists of a subset of the unorganized militia

'Nuff said. Anyone can train as part of the unorganized militia even under 11460 - you are simply to report to the Governor, who is your commander-in-chief. If you aren't using the training for anything bad that 11460 doesn't like, you're alright.

128. The unorganized militia may be called for active duty in case
of war, rebellion, insurrection, invasion, tumult, riot, breach of
the peace, public calamity or catastrophe, or other emergency, or
imminent danger thereof, or may be called forth for service under the
Constitution and laws of the United States. Whenever it is
necessary to call out any portion of the unorganized militia, the
Governor may call for and accept as many volunteers as are required
for such service, under regulations provided by this division.

-CA Military and Veterans Code

How can members of the state's armed irregular branch, charged with upholding law in time of crisis, be guilty of breaking the law to prepare for such an eventuality? Gents, I welcome you to the militia you are already members of. Train away (within the limits in 11460).

[Whiskey84]

I'd never get convicted under the "able bodied" definition haha. Jokes.

I don't know why exactly you would want to be in a militia. I just don't see the appeal.

[Tarn_Helm]

Militias are illegal in california.
:dupe:
http://www.geocities.com/capitolhill/congress/2608/index.html

http://californiamilitia.com/index.html

http://www.constitution.org/mil/ca/mil_usca.htm

http://www.rickross.com/reference/militia/militia1.html

:owned:
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[Alan Block]

anarchist / revolutionary / anti govt type groups. If you were training as a group to defend communities I don't think there would be a problem. Don't tell em what/who you are intending to defend them from!

[Salty]

From reading the law, it sounds like it's still legal for you to start one for the purpose of defending your neighborhood against riots, invasions, terrorist attacks, disasters, etc. At least until help arrives, or if the help needs help.

EDIT: And for the record, by "riots, invasions, terrorist attacks, disasters..." I mean "riots, invasions, terrorist attacks, disasters...", not some anarchist group wearing the mask of a community watch group. If everyone with a different political view goes around creating the later we'll be like freaking Africa with constant civil war. I don't think anyone wants that. We have one of the better, if not best democracies in the world, lets use it.

[Publius]

From reading the law, it sounds like it's still legal for you to start one for the purpose of defending your neighborhood against riots, invasions, terrorist attacks, disasters, etc.

As long as you don't plan on using guerilla warfare or sabotage against the invasion force. ;)

It's a pretty silly law. It doesn't even seem to be effective at banning private armies as long as the private army members can persuade a jury that they're training only in conventional military tactics (not guerilla warfare or sabotage) and that they do not intend to cause a civil disorder.

[DDT]

Let me guess, this was passed immediately after the OKC bombings. Can you imagine if they'd passed similar laws immediately after 9/11?

[Macadelic4]

From reading the law, it sounds like it's still legal for you to start one for the purpose of defending your neighborhood against riots, invasions, terrorist attacks, disasters, etc. At least until help arrives, or if the help needs help.

EDIT: And for the record, by "riots, invasions, terrorist attacks, disasters..." I mean "riots, invasions, terrorist attacks, disasters...", not some anarchist group wearing the mask of a community watch group.

Yes, some sense! We ought not be ashamed of or adverse to acting collectively as a/the militia. If a group wants to form to protect a community from crime; act according to CAPC 834-841, 12031, 11460, etc.; and not use the aforementioned "sabotage and other nasty techniques*" for "nefarious or otherwise not-so-nice purposes*", they should go for it. (*not actual Penal Code quotes)

If they are good ambassadors and don't bring about another OKC, who knows? Maybe things will be like the good ol' days of the state militas before the Dick Act of 1903.

[Springfield45]

Well, the Penal Code definition sounds like it is meant to outlaw private armies, which is a good thing; private armies have no place in a democracy. Check the history of Weimar Germany, and see what havoc was wrought by the rightwing Freikorps and their leftwing counterparts.

The United States is not a Democracy, it is a Republic. The Constitution does not mention the word Democracy at all. If we were a Democracy what would stop the majority from deciding that all white/black/red/brown/purple people must die? A militia.

[Publius]

Let me guess, this was passed immediately after the OKC bombings. Can you imagine if they'd passed similar laws immediately after 9/11?

The original law was passed in 1965. I imagine the original target was 1960s radical groups.

[GuyW]

If everyone with a different political view goes around creating the later we'll be like freaking Africa with constant civil war. I don't think anyone wants that. We have one of the better, if not best democracies in the world, lets use it.

Or - maybe it'd actually be a legitimate All_American Freedom phenomena....

Maybe you missed US History, such as the Whiskey (Tax) Rebellion of 1791-94...when the farmers and militia shot the federal tax collectors and federal soldiers...http://www.ttb.gov/public_info/whisky_rebellion.shtml

...or maybe the militia shooting a corrupt Sheriff and thugs in The Battle of Athens, Tennessee....

http://www.inlibertyandfreedom.com/tennessee.htm
.

[motorhead]

another lame, poorly written unenforcable law. our state seems to specialize in those. as the statute is written they could arrest reenactors, 3 gun and ipsc shooters, anyone who trains in groups simulating combat. did i read the date on the original statue right, 1965? that says a lot. loaded, open carry died around then. black panthers, weathermen, lions tigers and bears, OH MY! what an absolute load!

[N6ATF]

:dupe:
http://www.geocities.com/capitolhill/congress/2608/index.html

http://californiamilitia.com/index.html

http://www.constitution.org/mil/ca/mil_usca.htm

http://www.rickross.com/reference/militia/militia1.html

:owned:

:dupe::confused: Um, those aren't CGN forum threads.

[yellowfin]

USA doesn't get very far as a nation any more since armed groups don't go out oust elected officials every time those officials don't deserve to be elected.
Winner! :thumbsup:

[ANDREWMENDEZ]

THEN HOW DO THEY BOYSCOUTS GET AROUND THIS???

[DedEye]

THEN HOW DO THEY BOYSCOUTS GET AROUND THIS???

By not being a paramilitary organization.

[cousinkix1953]

REALLY? Then, how come nobody got busted; when a talk show host started one of these groups in Santa Cruz county in 1995?. Much of their anti-government rhetoric regarding the BATF and a massacre in Waco Texas was heard on a 10 thousand watt AM station called KSCO. Anybody who listened was aware of their meetings including sympathizers beyond Kalifornia.

They started getting visits from the big TV stations in Frisco; who thought they'd found another group of neo-Nazi gun nuts. Video clips of Dave Allan and his "on the air" malitia group meetings were seen on the evening news.

Your present Attorney General often syndicated his "We the People" program, from the same facilty. Even Jerry Brown knew that a malitia group was active around there. His own condemnation of Janet Reno and the BATF is priceless. I wonder if the station's owner still has that speech on tape?

It seems to me that you have to actually commit some crimes other thn just belonging to a club with a few guns...

[JDay]

PC 11460
(a) Any two or more persons who assemble as a paramilitary organization for the purpose of practicing with weapons shall be punished by imprisonment in a county jail for not more than one year or by a fine of not more than one thousand dollars ($1,000), or by both that fine and imprisonment.
As used in this subdivision, "paramilitary organization" means an organization which is not an agency of the United States government or of the State of California, or which is not a private school meeting the requirements set forth in Section 48222 of the Education Code, but which engages in instruction or training in guerrilla warfare or sabotage, or which, as an organization, engages in rioting or the violent disruption of, or the violent interference with, school activities.

This would appear to be unenforcible since it is a violation of rights and responsibilities under Title 10, USC Chapter 13.

(a) The militia of the United States consists of all able-bodied
males at least 17 years of age and, except as provided in section
313 of title 32, under 45 years of age who are, or who have made a
declaration of intention to become, citizens of the United States
and of female citizens of the United States who are members of the
National Guard.
(b) The classes of the militia are -
(1) the organized militia, which consists of the National Guard
and the Naval Militia; and
(2) the unorganized militia, which consists of the members of
the militia who are not members of the National Guard or the
Naval Militia.

http://uscode.house.gov/download/pls/10C13.txt

[Publius]

This would appear to be unenforcible since it is a violation of rights and responsibilities under Title 10, USC Chapter 13.


It's not clear that 10 USC 311 itself was intended to create a right for members of the unorganized militia to train independently in guerilla warfare and sabotage. The statute certainly doesn't say anything about that. Courts will try to construe laws in such a way that they don't conflict, so I would be very surprised if any court found 10 USC 311 to pre-empt Cal PC 11460.

Still, I wonder whether anyone has ever actually been prosecuted under PC 11460. I can't find any record of such a prosecution, even looking at a number of appellate cases where it would seem to be an obvious charge.

[JDay]

It's not clear that 10 USC 311 itself was intended to create a right for members of the unorganized militia to train independently in guerilla warfare and sabotage. The statute certainly doesn't say anything about that. Courts will try to construe laws in such a way that they don't conflict, so I would be very surprised if any court found 10 USC 311 to pre-empt Cal PC 11460.

Still, I wonder whether anyone has ever actually been prosecuted under PC 11460. I can't find any record of such a prosecution, even looking at a number of appellate cases where it would seem to be an obvious charge.

Thats what this is for.

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

[Ravenslair]

I think we need to read the fine print.

11460(a) PC defines a paramilitary organization as one "...which engages in instruction or training in guerrilla warfare or sabotage, or which, as an organization, engages in rioting or the violent disruption of, or the violent interference with, school activities." So, do not train in guerrilla warfare, sabotage or with the intent of inciting rioting or violent disruption. Sounds pretty simple to me.

11460(b)(1) PC is even more clear. It clearly states "...knowing or having reason to know or intending that these objects or techniques will be unlawfully employed..." If you knowingly train with someone knowing that training will be used illegally, you are guilty.

Simply put, train as a militia all you want. Just train to build your skills for personal benefit, not for anything illegal. The burden of proof would be on the DA.

[motorhead]

hmmmm, what was the name of that outfit, oh yeah, blackwater!
i suppose they were granted some sort of special dispensation when they proposed a training center (w/helipad & range) in portrero?

[cousinkix1953]

This would appear to be unenforcible since it is a violation of rights and responsibilities under Title 10, USC Chapter 13.

http://uscode.house.gov/download/pls/10C13.txt

Joining a right wing group and shooting your guns alone is not illegal! Which is exactly why I suggested that a group of gun toting radicals would actually have to go out and commit crimes. Renegade malitia groups like the Weather Underground, Symbionese Liberation Army and the Order used to rob banks, supposedly to finance their guerilla wars against our fascist regeime. They used illegal fully-automastic weapons in most cases too.

What kind of fool prosecutor would file such a frivilous "malitia group" charge; when robbing banks and using a machinegun are both federal felonies with a mandatory ten years for each crime...

[dfletcher]

Are there any restrictions in CA on those Civil War re-enactor groups that practice and skirmish and drill? Any reason why folks couldn't get together and do the same thing with WWII or Korea or Vietnam? Seems to me they have to do some sort of drilling & training for the purpose of recreating past events?

I suppose recreating boot camp & such would be to close to the edge?

[cousinkix1953]

Are there any restrictions in CA on those Civil War re-enactor groups that practice and skirmish and drill? Any reason why folks couldn't get together and do the same thing with WWII or Korea or Vietnam? Seems to me they have to do some sort of drilling & training for the purpose of recreating past events?

I suppose recreating boot camp & such would be to close to the edge?

They already do. A WW 2 reenactor's group stages their mock battles at Camp Roberts in the Santa Maria area. See for yourself...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fh2p_w67rHs

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qYnGTp06IaU&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uth2TQXPNqA&feature=related