View Full Version : OLL Assembly and the BATF
parcours
01-19-2009, 07:06 AM
Question folks...
Check out this BATF memo Dated Jan 12, 09
http://www.atf.gov/firearms/rules/atf_ruling2009-2.pdf
How does this affect OLL builds?
5150Marcelo
01-19-2009, 07:13 AM
It doesnt. Well, it shouldnt. What we deal with as far as OLLs go, are all drop in parts.
fairfaxjim
01-19-2009, 07:20 AM
Question folks...
Check out this BATF memo Dated Jan 12, 09
http://www.atf.gov/firearms/rules/atf_ruling2009-2.pdf
How does this affect OLL builds?
First off, this is about dealers and gunsmiths engaged in a "business" environment, not personal assembly for your own use.
This deals primarily with replacing parts in "fully assembled firearms" as a business, such as dealer or gunsmith. It says they do not need a manufacturers license to do so. It also says they can build individual firearms assembled from parts, but not "lot" quantities for distribution or sale. Meaning they can assemble the occasional OLL, but can't make a business of that without a manufacturers license.
It really has no bearing on people buying parts and assembling their own - the heavy lifting of the manufacturer's license has been done by the lower manufacturer, hence the rollmark and serial number. After that, parts is parts.
XDshooter
01-19-2009, 07:57 AM
I'm sure the OP is referring to the huge thread about when someone puts together and OLL, are they manufacturing it?
Pretty much says we are not, even if this only applies to dealers.
Just straight up assembly is not manufacturing. PERIOD.
BigDogatPlay
01-19-2009, 09:09 AM
This sentence in the middle of the rule is what gives me pause to think, emphasis added...
A “drop in” replacement part is one that can be installed in or on an existing, fully assembled firearm (not solely a frame or receiver) without drilling, cutting, or machining.
The "engaged in business" language throughout seems to let the individual off the hook. That is, up until some creative agent decides that a subsequent PPT of an EBR built from a stripped lower constitutes "engaged in business".
Remember, case law often begins with the creative act of a single government agent.
Pvt. Cowboy
01-19-2009, 09:47 AM
If the worry here is that ATF will rule that stripped receivers must be assembled into working firearms by an FFL holder, that would be a landmark change. Of course, it would also explain quite a lot about the new ATF Form 4473's 'receiver' checkbox.
I wouldn't put it past them, but I don't think this is the case.
Remember, case law often begins with the creative act of a single government agent.
... a single government agent being asked by a private entity for legal clarification of an existing statute, more often than not.
I wish people would stop asking ATF and CA-DOJ for their worthless opinions.
jas000
01-19-2009, 10:05 AM
I wonder, would ATF consider the machining required to headspace a replacement bolt to be "manufacturing" or maybe just...simply "fitting" the replacement part that is of "substantially the same dimensions"?
bwiese
01-19-2009, 10:33 AM
Cool.
Adding the original (or common replacement) parts- slide, bbl, guide rod, etc. - back to a pistol frame is not manufacturing :)
Shotgun Man
01-19-2009, 10:36 AM
The memo gives further credence to the notion that assembling a magazine is not "manufacturing" a magazine.
CalNRA
01-19-2009, 10:40 AM
Cool.
Adding the original (or common replacement) parts- slide, bbl, guide rod, etc. - back to a pistol frame is not manufacturing :)
all about the Nerfs, eh?:p
parcours
01-19-2009, 12:45 PM
I'm sure the OP is referring to the huge thread about when someone puts together and OLL, are they manufacturing it?
Pretty much says we are not, even if this only applies to dealers.
XD, that was my concern. I found this posted on ATF's web site while searching for other items. My first concern was the build concerning non-FFL's.
XDshooter
01-20-2009, 07:06 AM
XD, that was my concern. I found this posted on ATF's web site while searching for other items. My first concern was the build concerning non-FFL's.
Right, this ruling pretty much allows us to assembly NRF's, OLL's, or any other firearms with it being called manufacturing.
Cool.
Adding the original (or common replacement) parts- slide, bbl, guide rod, etc. - back to a pistol frame is not manufacturing :)
I was just thinking about that. Did the BATFE people come to our side for some reason, or what's going on? Do they read this forum and decide to help out?
all about the Nerfs, eh?:p
No, it's about the CA model of Ruget LCP - Ruger LCP NRF, o the CA model of Seecamp .380 - Seecamp .380NRF, or... I'm not sure whether to love those people or hate them - they're contributing to my financial ruin, but I my potentially get the guns I want out of it. Ah, the revenge of the Nerfs :)
dustoff31
01-20-2009, 07:23 AM
I was just thinking about that. Did the BATFE people come to our side for some reason, or what's going on? Do they read this forum and decide to help out?
No, I don't think so.
Some time back BATFE was telling dealers/gunsmiths that they needed to be licensed as mfg's rather than dealers due to the nature of the work they were doing. This ruling is intended to clarify that. It does reverse some of the info being put out before.
The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF) has received inquiries from Federally licensed firearms manufacturers and dealers/gunsmiths seeking clarification as to whether installing “drop in” replacement parts in or on existing firearms constitutes a manufacturing activity that requires a manufacturer’s license.
No, I don't think so.
Some time back BATFE was telling dealers/gunsmiths that they needed to be licensed as mfg's rather than dealers due to the nature of the work they were doing. This ruling is intended to clarify that. It does reverse some of the info being put out before.
Oh ,I was being sarcastic, but thanks for the info, I didn't know that.
motorhead
01-20-2009, 05:49 PM
iirc the only major change was to classify restoration and refinishing as manufacturing. rest assured, anything that comes from atf will contain something bad. the only question is how bad. this has reclassified many simple ffl's as manufacturers.
I think its a load.
"Gunsmiths" who change parts don't need a manufacturers license.
BFD. Joe Sixpack can be a parts-changer without even engaging a "gunsmith"...
REAL gunsmiths who actually repair guns by making or adapting parts for non-current firearms will need a manufacturers license.
This is all about harrassing gun owners, gunsmiths, and drying up the supply of operable, cost-effective guns.
On the otherhand, its an opportunity for hobbyists who CAN 'smith old guns....
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