CA Law and SKS Rifles

[JDay]

I noticed this for the first time in the PC, wtf is this about? Only SKS rifles with detachable magazines are listed as an AW.

http://www.ag.ca.gov/firearms/dwcl/12275.php

12281. (a) Any person who, or firm, company, or corporation that, operated a retail or other commercial firm, company, or corporation, and manufactured, distributed, transported, imported, possessed, possessed for sale, offered for sale, or transferred, for commercial purpose, an SKS rifle in California between January 1, 1992, and December 19, 1997, shall be immune from criminal prosecution under Section 12280. The immunity provided in this subdivision shall apply retroactively to any person who, or firm, company, or corporation that, is or was charged by complaint or indictment with a violation of Section 12280 for conduct related to an SKS rifle, whether or not the case of that person, firm, company, or corporation is final.
(b) Any person who possessed, gave, loaned, or transferred an SKS rifle in California between January 1, 1992, and December 19, 1997, shall be immune from criminal prosecution under Section 12280. The immunity provided in this subdivision shall apply retroactively to any person who was charged by complaint or indictment with a violation of Section 12280 for conduct related to an SKS rifle, whether or not the case of that person is final.
(c) Any SKS rifle in the possession of any person who, or firm, company, or corporation that, is described in subdivision (a) or (b), shall not be subject to seizure by law enforcement for violation of Section 12280 prior to January 1, 2000.
(d) Any person, firm, company, or corporation, convicted under Section 12280 for conduct relating to an SKS rifle, shall be permitted to withdraw his or her plea of guilty or nolo contendere, or to reopen his or her case and assert the immunities provided in this section, if the court determines that the allowance of the immunity is in the interests of justice. The court shall interpret this section liberally to the benefit of the defendant.
(e) The Department of Justice shall notify all district attorneys on or before January 31, 1999, of the provisions of this section. The department shall identify all criminal prosecutions in the state for conduct related to SKS rifles within 90 days of the effective date of this section. In all cases so identified by the Attorney General, the district attorneys shall inform defense counsel, or the defendant if the defendant is in propria persona, in writing, of the provisions of this section within 120 days of the effective date of this section.
(f)(1) Any person, firm, company, or corporation that is in possession of an SKS rifle shall do one of the following on or before January 1, 2000:
(A) Relinquish the SKS rifle to the Department of Justice pursuant to subdivision (h).
(B) Relinquish the SKS rifle to a law enforcement agency pursuant to Section 12288.
(C) Dispose of the SKS rifle as permitted by Section 12285.
(2) Any person who has obtained title to an SKS rifle by bequest or intestate succession shall be required to comply with subparagraph (A) or (B) of paragraph (1) of this subdivision unless he or she otherwise complies with paragraph (1) of subdivision (b) of Section 12285.
(3) Any SKS rifle relinquished to the department pursuant to this subdivision shall be in a manner prescribed by the department.
(4) The department shall conduct a public education and notification program as described in Section 12289, commencing no later than January 1, 1999.
(g) Any person who complies with subdivision (f) shall be exempt from the prohibitions set forth in subdivision (a) or (b) of Section 12280 for those acts by that person associated with complying with the requirements of subdivision (f).
(h)(1) The department shall purchase any SKS rifle relinquished pursuant to subdivision (f) from funds appropriated for this purpose by the act amending this section in the 1997-98 Regular Session of the Legislature or by subsequent budget acts or other legislation. The department shall adopt regulations for this purchase program that include, but are not limited to, the manner of delivery, the reimbursement to be paid, and the manner in which persons shall be informed of the state purchase program.
(2) Any person who relinquished possession of an SKS rifle to a law enforcement agency pursuant to Section 12288 prior to the effective date of the purchase program set forth in paragraph (1) shall be eligible to be reimbursed from the purchase program. The procedures for reimbursement pursuant to this paragraph shall be part of the regulations adopted by the department pursuant to paragraph (1).
(i) Notwithstanding paragraph (11) of subdivision (a) of Section 12276, an "SKS rifle" under this section means all SKS rifles commonly referred to as "SKS Sporter" versions, manufactured to accept a detachable AK-47 magazine and imported into this state and sold by a licensed gun dealer, or otherwise lawfully possessed in this state by a resident of this state who is not a licensed gun dealer, between January 1, 1992, and December 19, 1997.
(j) Failure to comply with subdivision (f) is a public offense punishable by imprisonment in the state prison, or in a county jail, not exceeding one year.
(k) In addition to the regulations required pursuant to subdivision (h), emergency regulations for the purchase program described in subdivision (h) shall be adopted pursuant to Chapter 3.5 (commencing with Section 11340) of Part 1 of Division 3 of Title 2 of the Government Code.

[River Jack]

[QUOTE=JDay;1913666]I noticed this for the first time in the PC, wtf is this about? Only SKS rifles with detachable magazines are listed as an AW.

Here's the key to the whole paragraph:

(i) Notwithstanding paragraph (11) of subdivision (a) of Section 12276, an "SKS rifle" under this section means all SKS rifles commonly referred to as "SKS Sporter" versions, manufactured to accept a detachable AK-47 magazine and imported into this state and sold by a licensed gun dealer, or otherwise lawfully possessed in this state by a resident of this state who is not a licensed gun dealer, between January 1, 1992, and December 19, 1997.

Therefore, as you pointed out, the entire thing is only applicable to SKS with detachable mags. The Russians, Yugos (with g/l removed/inactivated), Romys, and Chinese (with fixed mags) are legal under CA law.

[saigon1965]

Didn't you guys turn them in -

[JDay]

Okay, I missed that part. I knew they weren't banned which is why that section had me saying WTF.

[ohsmily]

Okay, I missed that part. I knew they weren't banned which is why that section had me saying WTF.

But you posted the section and presumably read it or you wouldn't have posted it, right? So why were you saying "WTF." Subsection (i) clearly defines what the section is referring to.

Is this another case of you bypassing your kidneys?

[impactco]

Is this another case of you bypassing your kidneys?



:rofl2:

[bohoki]

i'm confused

so are only skss' that use the ak mags the ones banned so you can use detachables on origionl fixed skss'?

if every "sks" with detachable magazine is banned how about using an ak mag lock device with the sks sporter

the whole sks with detachable magazine is so generic i thought the named ban has to be by make and model

[JDay]

But you posted the section and presumably read it or you wouldn't have posted it, right? So why were you saying "WTF." Subsection (i) clearly defines what the section is referring to.


That section that I posted is pretty long though and its easy to miss the "SKS Sporter" part, especially since its buried in there pretty deep.

[JDay]

i'm confused

so are only skss' that use the ak mags the ones banned so you can use detachables on origionl fixed skss'?

if every "sks" with detachable magazine is banned how about using an ak mag lock device with the sks sporter

the whole sks with detachable magazine is so generic i thought the named ban has to be by make and model

What would the point be? A C&R SKS already has a fixed 10 round magazine and it only takes a couple seconds to load it back up with a stripper clip. Detachable magazines in the SKS rifle are known for having feed issues too.

[mblat]

Wasn't there the line some time ago that most SKS that are sold now in this country are not really SKS from gun control laws point of view?
Like Yugos really M59 rifle and while it is SKS-pattern it isn't really SKS and therefore CAN be used with detachable mag? Since "series" language is clearly unlawful..... that should apply to ALL firearms, not only to AK/AR?

[Quiet]

Okay, I missed that part. I knew they weren't banned which is why that section had me saying WTF.

This section came about because CA DOJ changed their minds about which detachable magazine SKS was banned.

(from what I remember)

When Rooberti-Roos was passed, the only available SKS with deatachable magazines was the Chinese (Norinco) SKS sporter that used AK magazines, had a 20" barrel and had a bayonet.

After the ban passed, CA DOJ said it was ok to sell/buy/possess the Chinese (Norinco) SKS-D [the SKS sporter with a 16" barrel in a thumbhole stock and no bayonet/bayonet lug], the SKS-M [the SKS sporter with a 16" barrel and no bayonet/bayonet lug] and Chinese/Russian SKS that took the detachable duckbill magazines [SKS with 20" barrel, bayonet and took detachable magazines other than AK magazines] because they weren't the SKS mentioned in 12276(a)(11) [SKS sporter with 20" barrel, took AK magazines and had a bayonet].

A several years later, CA DOJ changed their minds and said the SKS-D/SKS-M/SKS converted to take duck-bill magazines were all covered under 12276(a)(11). CA DOJ then started confiscating/prosecuting people who bought the Chinese (Norinco) SKS-D/SKS-M. Some people cried foul to the NRA & their representatives in the CA legislature and 12281 was passed to give people who bought the SKS-D/SKS-M a "get out of jail free card" because CA DOJ changed their minds.

CA DOJ then did a buy back with amenisty for Chinese "SKS Sporters" (Norinco SKS-D/SKS-M). They offered $230 for them and, at the time, they were selling for around $350-400.
People were also told that the duckbill detachable magazines for the SKS were also banned, but they were allowed to convert back to a fixed magazine. That's when the fixed SKS 20 round magazine & 75 round drum started to get popular and why 12276.1(a)(2) came about.

I remember this because I was about to buy a Norinco SKS-D and the next day CA DOJ started to come down on them.
I just remembered being glad I waited to think to over before buying it.

Attorney General Dan Lungren was the person who changed his mind.
NRA got Assemblyman Rod Wright (D-South Central LA) to author the legislation that became 12281.
Governor Pete Wilson signed it into law.

[King$nake]

wow - when did they update the CA Attorney General AW Page?

I don't remember the SKS being listed as 'SKS with Detachable Magazine'

I thought it always just said 'SKS'....that's why I was always a bit confused on it

[markw]

It still lists "Colt AR-15 series" then further down it says:
(e) The term "series" includes all other models that are only variations, with minor differences, of those models listed in subdivision (a), regardless of the manufacturer.

So is this just a case of DOJ not updating websites post Harrot?

[Quiet]

It still lists "Colt AR-15 series" then further down it says:
(e) The term "series" includes all other models that are only variations, with minor differences, of those models listed in subdivision (a), regardless of the manufacturer.

So is this just a case of DOJ not updating websites post Harrot?

It's the legislature not passing new laws to get rid of language and/or laws that are no longer valid due to court cases.

[SteveH]

A semiautomatic centerfire rifle with a fixed mag that holds more than 10-rounds is an assault rifle.

Unfortunately both of my Chinese SKS rifles hold 11 rounds in the mag, easily. So they are stored outside the state of California. Are the Yugo's any better in this respect?

[Gator Monroe]

It still lists "Colt AR-15 series" then further down it says:
(e) The term "series" includes all other models that are only variations, with minor differences, of those models listed in subdivision (a), regardless of the manufacturer.

So is this just a case of DOJ not updating websites post Harrot?

This is the FUD that has FFL's shy away from OLL (Is this fear warrented and not really FUD ?????????)

[JDay]

A semiautomatic centerfire rifle with a fixed mag that holds more than 10-rounds is an assault rifle.

Unfortunately both of my Chinese SKS rifles hold 11 rounds in the mag, easily. So they are stored outside the state of California. Are the Yugo's any better in this respect?

You can easily replace the fixed magazine.

[mblat]

A semiautomatic centerfire rifle with a fixed mag that holds more than 10-rounds is an assault rifle.

Unfortunately both of my Chinese SKS rifles hold 11 rounds in the mag, easily. So they are stored outside the state of California. Are the Yugo's any better in this respect?

I would think so..... after all you can find them easily on the shelves of many CA gun stores....
I have only Russian..... And it takes 10 and no more....

[SteveH]

I would think so..... after all you can find them easily on the shelves of many CA gun stores....
I have only Russian..... And it takes 10 and no more....

I'll try finding a Russian or Yugo mag body and swapping them out. Hopefully they will only hold 10-rounds that way and I can bring them into the state. Chicoms probably thought they were doing us a favor by making the mags oversized.

[railroader]

Unfortunately both of my Chinese SKS rifles hold 11 rounds in the mag, easily. So they are stored outside the state of California. Are the Yugo's any better in this respect?

I thought they were all like that. With the bolt closed they only will hold ten rounds like if you load them from the bottom. With the bolt back and you can get 11 rounds in from the top. Mark

[SteveH]

I thought they were all like that. With the bolt closed they only will hold ten rounds like if you load them from the bottom. With the bolt back and you can get 11 rounds in from the top. Mark


Dont all SKS rifles in Cali at this point load from the top with the bolt locked to the rear? If you can get 11 rounds in its an AW.

[RANGER295]

Dont all SKS rifles in Cali at this point load from the top with the bolt locked to the rear? If you can get 11 rounds in its an AW.

I don’t know, but every SKS that I have ever handled which have mostly been Norincos, but also include an Albanian, Romanian, and Russian SKS, have taken 11 rounds if you top the mag off with the bolt back. If you close the bolt, it is 10+ 1 in the chamber. There is no way to get 11 in the mag with one in the chamber. I have tried to close the bolt, turn the weapon upside down, open the bottom of the mag and stack the bullets in there, but you can only close the mag back up with 10 or less. So I would say that operationally, it is a 10 round mag. Are there any other thoughts on this?

[yellowfin]

Don't ask, don't tell.

[RANGER295]

Don't ask, don't tell.

That is not a good solution when you are talking about a potential felony.

[hossinator81]

not to hijack this dead thread but....

I've seen a plain-jane norinco sks (completely stock, new in box covered in cosmoline, fixed mag, bayonet) that said the words "norinco, sporter, R-West" stamped on the barrel. Does PC 12281 define a "sporter" soley by the ability to accept an AK style mag (hence it's listing on PC 12270) or does the fact that "sporter" is stamped on the barrel make it illegal even though everything else on it is legit?

I guess my question is: does the name "sporter" constitute what PC 12281 is about or is it the detachable mag that makes it what it is and the term "sporter" is used because that's what the guns were called when they were released?

Thanks for the help!