Utah Non Resident CCW

[dfletcher]

The gun show was lousy enough for me that I decided to do the Utah non resident CCW class. Been thinking about it - I drive cross country often & the permit is good in my "home" state, figured what the hell. I had held off thinking the class might be all gung ho, quick draw and high gear but it's not. It's very straightforward, simple and the fellow who gave the class is low key and well informed.

The CCW is of course no good in CA, does anyone know of any forseeable circumstances in which the Utah permit could actually end up being recognized in CA - as in, SCOTUS determines that State A must recognize the CCWs of State B for example.

I'm happy to have the CCW with its current restrictions, it would be a plus if through some legal quirk the thing ended up being horored in CA.

[yellowfin]

The way it could become valid is by other states' residents bombarding Sacramento demanding it. That can be done if the national RKBA orgs and gun/hunting magazines get the word out.

[Anthonysmanifesto]

The way it could become valid is by other states' residents bombarding Sacramento demanding it. That can be done if the national RKBA orgs and gun/hunting magazines get the word out.

that a tough nut to crack- as you now the national groups have fought and won key CCW victories across America.

the California CCW reform we want is several well timed court cases away.

[dfletcher]

I recall that the Constitution requires that states must acknowledge certain laws in other states. For instance, if you are married in VA your marriage is valid in NH, if you have a CA DL it is valid in CT. If you sign a contract in OR it is valid in FL. I don't understand why this does not apply to CCWs.

[TheBundo]

I recall that the Constitution requires that states must acknowledge certain laws in other states. For instance, if you are married in VA your marriage is valid in NH, if you have a CA DL it is valid in CT. If you sign a contract in OR it is valid in FL. I don't understand why this does not apply to CCWs.

It doesn't apply to alot of things, like contractors licenses, lawyers even have to get a waiver to practice law for a court case if not admitted to another states bar. To a large extent, driving is the same everywhere, as is road signage. Hence, there is really no special knowledge required to drive between states. Actually, CCW are closer to following a universal set of rules that contractors, for instance, in which states have widely different building codes depending on the environement (quakes, hurricanes, etc.)

It would be nice though.

[Can'thavenuthingood]

Maybe go at the politicians with a revenue stream in mind?

How many CCW's are possibly in this state times the fees and income generated?

Vick

[fmfdoc]

Remember the old song "California Dreaming"?:)

[Librarian]

Maybe go at the politicians with a revenue stream in mind?

How many CCW's are possibly in this state times the fees and income generated?

Vick

There's around 23 million adults 21-72 in California. Something like 4% is the highest number I've heard for the number who apply for CCW in other states - 920,000-ish is about as many as could be expected. Call that a million, for ease of back-of-the-envelope calculations.

Livescan fingerprints are about $25 for the rolling fee; in 2004, the background check fee was $82 for DOJ and FBI together. PC 12054 (http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/cacodes/pen/12050-12054.html) says $100 is the top fee allowed. The licensing authority
of any city, city and county, or county may charge an additional fee
in an amount equal to the actual costs for processing the application
for a new license, excluding fingerprint and training costs, but in
no case to exceed one hundred dollars ($100), and shall transmit the
additional fee, if any, to the city, city and county, or county
treasury. The first 20 percent of this additional local fee may be
collected upon filing of the initial application. The balance of the
fee shall be collected only upon issuance of the license.
...
(d) Except as authorized pursuant to subdivisions (a), (b), and
(c), no requirement, charge, assessment, fee, or condition that
requires the payment of any additional funds by the applicant may be
imposed by any licensing authority as a condition of the application
for a license.


Psychological testing, if required, should cost no more than $150.

You may notice, if you can find any information about any local agency, some discrepancies between what the agency charges and the $100 maximum in the PC. For example, San Diego County (http://www.sdsheriff.net/licensing/ccw.html) has a $63.14 "Sheriff fee". Placer County (http://www.placer.ca.gov/Departments/Sheriff/Saveatrip/ConcealedWeaponPermit.aspx) charges $210, including fingerprint fee, which is about right if that also includes the background check fee.

See also http://www.californiaconcealedcarry.com/counties.html

So, rolling fee may go to local government or local businesses - $25 million; background check fee goes part to state, part to Feds - $82 million; and an additional fee up to $100 goes to the issuing authority - $100 million.

Something like $200 million.

California's 2007-2008 expenditures (http://2007-08.archives.ebudget.ca.gov/Enacted/BudgetSummary/SUM/8867168.html) were $145,543 million. (Current proposed (http://www.ebudget.ca.gov/agencies.html) for 2009-10 is $134,764 million.)

Doesn't look like CCW fees are likely to be a very significant source of revenue.

[yellowfin]

Psychological testing for CCW???

[Librarian]

Psychological testing for CCW???

Yep - it can be required for applicants, per 12054(c).

[M. D. Van Norman]

[D]oes anyone know of any forseeable circumstances in which the Utah permit could actually end up being recognized in CA.…

It could happen, but then we would probably see the end of non-resident permits, if the ruling or law didn’t specifically exclude them.