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View Full Version : Value of high Capacity magazines in California and their replacement


E Pluribus Unum
01-06-2009, 11:20 PM
In another post I explained how a foreclosure company illegally entered my home and took everything I owned and its gone forever-http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=125812


My lawyer has filed a lawsuit against those responsible. Part of the lawsuit was listing everything I owned in the house. I did that and on the list is about 20 high capacity magazines that I purchased before the 2001 magazine ban.

Now I am stuck with the dilemma of valuing those items. If I lived in Nevada, it would be $10-$20 per magazine. How can that value hold true in California? Those magazines are legally irreplaceable in this state. How does one value the use of a magazine, forever? Is there any way to legally compel the DOJ to issue a high capacity magazine permit to allow me to legally replace those magazines that are gone?

My attorney is a great civil litigator but he is not a firearms attorney. Any body have any good info to help me get these things replaced?

Luckily this happened during hunting season so my motorhome had all of the hicaps that I regularly used. The 20 mags I had at home were 1970s sealed M14 magazines and some 35 round AR mags that were never used. I was sad to see them go.

jacques
01-06-2009, 11:23 PM
If they are in possession of illegally obtained Hi Cap mags, isn't that a no-no?

E Pluribus Unum
01-06-2009, 11:25 PM
If they are in possession of illegally obtained Hi Cap mags, isn't that a no-no?

As covered before, "finding" high capacity magazines is legal. Technically, because they had no legal right to enter the home, everything they took was theft and therefore illegal. The people responsible could face criminal charges of grand theft and a whole SLUE of other felony charges. I doubt a misdemeanor charge of illegally acquiring high capacity magazines would be an issue at that point.

FreedomIsNotFree
01-06-2009, 11:25 PM
I have absolutely zero information on if/how you could compel the DOJ to grant you a permit for a high capacity magazine. I do know that the perceived value, to you, of a high capacity magazine is not recognized in civil court...only its actual value which would be what you paid for it.

That said, I hope you stick them with a very large bill at the end of the day.

E Pluribus Unum
01-06-2009, 11:29 PM
I do know that the perceived value, to you, of a high capacity magazine is not recognized in civil court...only its actual value which would be what you paid for it.

That is actually not true. It is "fair market value".

It works in both ways.

I had some Cisco equipment that was stolen. I bought a Cisco Pix Firewall for $2500 a few years ago. That same firewall can be purchased today for about $1000. All I get for it is $1000 because that was the fair market value of that item at the time of its "conversion".

That is why this is an issue. What is the fair market value of a magazine which is made of unobtainium?

sorensen440
01-06-2009, 11:30 PM
I would value them at 1,000 each as they are irreplaceable

Were there any standard caps in that box you were storing at your friends house ?
might be worth looking

FS00008
01-06-2009, 11:32 PM
Whatever it costs to get a High-Cap magazine permit and to replace that which was taken. Or whatever it costs to get the High-Capacity Magazine ban rescinded.

I like the second option.

E Pluribus Unum
01-06-2009, 11:36 PM
Whatever it costs to get a High-Cap magazine permit and to replace that which was taken. Or whatever it costs to get the High-Capacity Magazine ban rescinded.

I like the second option.

They do not issue permits to commoners. If I were able to get a permit, then the cost would be that of a standard magazine everywhere else in the free world, $10-$20. Unfortunately I fear that is all the court would be willing to establish as their "value" and see that the inability to get a permit as being another issue.

sorensen440
01-06-2009, 11:39 PM
They do not issue permits to commoners. If I were able to get a permit, then the cost would be that of a standard magazine everywhere else in the free world, $10-$20. Unfortunately I fear that is all the court would be willing to establish as their "value" and see that the inability to get a permit as being another issue.

The court may also issue them as no value as you can not legally sell them instate

E Pluribus Unum
01-06-2009, 11:46 PM
The court may also issue them as no value as you can not legally sell them instate

Now THAT would be a bizzle.... I was thinking of $10-$20 as being a worst case scenario...

FreedomIsNotFree
01-06-2009, 11:52 PM
That is actually not true. It is "fair market value".

It works in both ways.

I had some Cisco equipment that was stolen. I bought a Cisco Pix Firewall for $2500 a few years ago. That same firewall can be purchased today for about $1000. All I get for it is $1000 because that was the fair market value of that item at the time of its "conversion".

That is why this is an issue. What is the fair market value of a magazine which is made of unobtainium?


Yes, but you can't replace the high capacity magazine. Fair market value would only apply when the item is replaceable, which the high capacity magazine is not.

triaged
01-07-2009, 12:23 AM
How much would it cost for you to sue the state in order to force them to give you a permit to replace them? Take that amount and divide it by the number of mags and then add projected out of state fair market value (at the time the case ends). So say $100,040 each?

E Pluribus Unum
01-07-2009, 12:25 AM
Yes, but you can't replace the high capacity magazine. Fair market value would only apply when the item is replaceable, which the high capacity magazine is not.

I was an idiot. I went to a gun show and bought out all of his magazines on the deadline. He charged me $562.00 a piece. I paid cash that I had saved up from 10 years of recycling cans. ;)

tommyid1
01-07-2009, 12:43 AM
seeing as though they were stolen and or destroyed by the title company is it not legal for you to replace or repair them?

E Pluribus Unum
01-07-2009, 12:56 AM
seeing as though they were stolen and or destroyed by the title company is it not legal for you to replace or repair them?

There is no exception in the penal code for this. If I am reading the law correctly, legally, I have no recourse. They are gone forever and cannot be legally replaced. This is true for all of my family photos, heirlooms, memorabilia, et cetera as well. What is a picture worth? The .57 it cost to develop it, or the irreplaceable memory it once embodied?

What about pets? They took 5 of my cats, of which I will never see again. There is no getting them back. What are they worth??? According to me, they are worth the emotional bond I had with them. According to the court, they are worth whatever it would take monetarily to replace the animal. In Bakersfield one can go to the shelter and adopt a pet for $50 so my animals were worth $250 according to the courts. There is no monetary value for sentiment.

If these magazines are like all of the other things the court likes to put monetary figures to, they aren't worth jack. I hope somehow I am wrong.

CRQuarto
01-07-2009, 1:04 AM
Ugh, this is a BS situation, hopefully it works out in your favor. Keep us updated.

shooting4life
01-07-2009, 9:30 AM
I feel for you, I hope this all works out in the end.

tpuig
01-07-2009, 2:30 PM
In a criminal case, it looks like you'd only get fair market value. Maybe only the receipts you could provide. On a cat, it's only a couple bucks since we tend to view them as property. You might be out of luck on the mags. However, in a civil suit, you may be able to get a bit more. Especially if you've got a cat loving jury...

DDT
01-07-2009, 2:52 PM
I would think that any good liberal would say that those magazines still exist in your heart.

As they still exist in your heart surely you can repair the same 20 magazines with rebuild kits.