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CZRyan
01-06-2009, 10:51 AM
Hypothetically, I'm towing a camper trailer and I get pulled over. My firearms are secured in the trailer. In the course of the officers interrogation, I am asked if I have any guns in the car. Can I truthfully answer “No officer, there are no guns in this car” ??(although a 'gun' is an artillery piece that is mounted on a ship, has it's own wheels or mounted in a fort) His inquiry would not include the trailer would it? Also if he demanded a search because he thought that he had PC , would the search include the trailer? I mean the trailer is your home away from home, police can't search your home without a warrant so they can't search the trailer without a warrant, right ?? I'm just trying to figure out where to keep the firearms when I'm traveling.

sorensen440
01-06-2009, 11:09 AM
You are under no legal obligation to tell them anything
"There is nothing illegal in my car"
Period
don't consent to a search of anything ever
if he feels he has pc to search that's his call and can be dealt with later

Seesm
01-06-2009, 11:37 AM
Yeah you do not have to tell them you have a gun in the car... forget telling anything... I fyou get arrested keep your mouth shut and wait till your lawyer shows up..

Kid Stanislaus
01-06-2009, 11:43 AM
Sorenson 440 hit it right on the head. The police officer has the legal weight of the entire state government behind him and you are, in fact, at his mercy. Your only redress is AFTER THE FACT. They can even get away with violating your rights because the officer "genuinely believed" he had cause to search you, your car, and your trailer. It sucks but that's the truth of the situation. If you have decent cops, and the overwhelming majority are, then the game gets played by the rules. If not, they find some way around the rules and without the expenditure of a lot of money there's not much you can do about it.

Dirtbiker
01-06-2009, 12:08 PM
An officer can ask to search anything, if you give them consent it's your fault. The trailer would be a bit of a different story because:

A. You have no access to it while driving
B. It is considered a domicile same as your house.

PC is everything, give them nothing and they really can't do much without it.

bulgron
01-06-2009, 12:12 PM
"There is nothing illegal in my car" is a statement that I'm going to drill into my kids heads once they get to driving age.

CSACANNONEER
01-06-2009, 12:23 PM
Hypothetically, if I got pulled over while towing a trailer with a gun on it........Hypothetically nothing. I have been pulled over while towing a gun (3" bore and 66" wheels) on a trailer. The officer didn't even ask about it and it was in plain sight. He just wanted to let me know that I had a strap dragging and went on his way. What if he had asked me about any small arms in my truck? Just because he saw an artillary piece, would that have given him PC to search my truck for weapons and/or explosives (BP)? I don't know and really don't care. I'll cross that bridge when I come to it. In the mean time, I'll just stick with the correct answer and say "There's nothing illegal in my vehicle." If he insists on search it without a warrant, the circumstances will dictate if I will procede with any possible legal action.

Nodda Duma
01-06-2009, 1:09 PM
Should the response be more on the lines of "There is nothing illegal in my car. I do not give you consent to search" ?

-Jason

M1A Rifleman
01-06-2009, 1:16 PM
You have the right to not answer any questions if you think your rights are being violated, and you can demand to be taken before a magistrate for action.

Of course you will wait in jail until a magistrate is available. Its always better to be cooperative, unless I guess you know your committing a crime.

bruss01
01-06-2009, 1:22 PM
I always heard that a motorhome, while being driven, is a vehicle - when parked at a campground, it becomes a residence. Trailers... well that's where my knowledge trails off he he.

leelaw
01-06-2009, 1:36 PM
An officer can ask to search anything, if you give them consent it's your fault. The trailer would be a bit of a different story because:

B. It is considered a domicile same as your house.

Incorrect. A motorhome or trailer that is mobile is not considered a home and given the same protections. If, however, the motorhome or trailer is parked, wheels chocked, and hooked to utilities, it becomes like a home.

CHS
01-06-2009, 7:16 PM
You can also just lie to the officer. Nothing illegal about that.

Officer: "Any guns in the car?"
Me (with guns in the trunk): "No Sir."

^^^^ Legal.

sorensen440
01-06-2009, 7:19 PM
Should the response be more on the lines of "There is nothing illegal in my car. I do not give you consent to search" ?

-Jason

I would just stick with the first part
In the rare case that you get one of the very very few bad cops out there telling them that you are not going to do something they asked might set them off

sorensen440
01-06-2009, 7:20 PM
Incorrect. A motorhome or trailer that is mobile is not considered a home and given the same protections. If, however, the motorhome or trailer is parked, wheels chocked, and hooked to utilities, it becomes like a home.

Correct
and that means no loaded guns even in the trailer and lock the door before you drive off (if you have handguns in there)

rayra
01-06-2009, 9:29 PM
wow, this topic a near duplicate of the last libertarian absolutist -fest as the last time a similar question was posed. But with the added twist of the trailer.

It's all stupid advice because if an individual officer or jurisdiction is predisposed to dick with you re that weapon question, the suggested wordplay sets you up for an obstruction charge. You wind up with a process crime, trying to weasel out of answering a question.
I don't myself agree with 'officer safety first and foremost. I don't think that officers desire to go home safe at night trumps our rights. But instead of whipping out some ACLU masturbation script and mince words with a LEO on side of the rode and chance turning a molehill into a mountain, I will instead do my utmost to transport my arms within the full extent of the law (and occasionally in an even more strict manner), just to guarantee that I CAN'T be ****ed with. And I'm prepared to demonstrate that letter of the law to the detaining officer for his (or his field supervisor's) edification.

mark2203
01-06-2009, 9:46 PM
You probably have a NRA sticker on your vehicle or trailer, correct? Not that it's a bad thing to have an NRA sticker on your vehicle but it probably inspired that kind of interrogation to begin with.

E Pluribus Unum
01-06-2009, 11:06 PM
Incorrect. A motorhome or trailer that is mobile is not considered a home and given the same protections. If, however, the motorhome or trailer is parked, wheels chocked, and hooked to utilities, it becomes like a home.

Yes and no. A motorhome still has some pseudo-residence protection while driving down the road.

When they impounded my Motorhome while legally parked on the roadway they had a bizzle of a time getting it towed because the wheels were turned. Had it been a car, the tow truck driver could have simply slim-jimmed the door and turned the wheel. Because it was a motorhome, my attorney tells me that they would have needed a warrant to gain entry to it eventhough it was parked on the roadway.

I also know that in a normal vehicle, any open alcoholic beverage container is a no no. In a motorhome, one can have an open bottle of container provided it is not in the "driver's area". So basically anything behind the driver's seat is OK. It is legal to have an open bottle of vodka in the refrigerator for example.

It would be interesting to see how the courts would rule on a concealed handgun in the bedroom area of the motorhome. Technically it is the residence portion but it is also a motor vehicle. Which, if they rule that its ok while parked, by the time the officer searched the coach, they would be parked and the concealment would be legal. :)


Ad for the OP:

Never ever talk to the police. Be polite, but decline any questions. The supreme court has ruled that we have a 5th amendment right not to answer questions of the police even if the truthful answers may NOT serve to incriminate us. If they are talking to you, they are trying to build evidence against you. You have a right not to partake in it even if you have committed no crime.

Case in point:

The one time I spoke with the police, it was to affirm my innocence. I said nothing incriminating. Suffice it to say that what I did say was twisted and taken out of context to make it LOOK like I was guilty. If you refuse to speak with them, they cannot do that.

NuGunner
01-06-2009, 11:36 PM
Incorrect. A motorhome or trailer that is mobile is not considered a home and given the same protections. If, however, the motorhome or trailer is parked, wheels chocked, and hooked to utilities, it becomes like a home.

right on the money

E Pluribus Unum
01-06-2009, 11:40 PM
Yes he can search the trailer as part of the vehicle, no search warrant, it's not considered a home until it's not mobile. Learned this about a year in half ago @ I'll have to do some research on the reasoning and that means sift through some textbooks and notes.

I am waiting with eyes peeled.... I am not aware of this being the case.....


I did find this:

California
Storage of Opened Container in Passenger Compartment 23226. (a) It is unlawful for any driver to keep in the passenger compartment of a motor vehicle, when the vehicle is upon any highway or on lands, as described in subdivision (b) of Section 23220, any bottle, can, or other receptacle containing any alcoholic beverage that has been opened, or a seal broken, or the contents of which have been partially removed.

(b) It is unlawful for any passenger to keep in the passenger compartment of a motor vehicle, when the vehicle is upon any highway or on lands, as described in subdivision (b) of Section 23220, any bottle, can, or other receptacle containing any alcoholic beverage that has been opened or a seal broken, or the contents of which have been partially removed.

(c) This section shall not apply to the living quarters of a housecar or camper.

E Pluribus Unum
01-06-2009, 11:44 PM
right on the money

The case you want to review is California v. Carney, 471 U.S. 386, 105 S.Ct. 2066, 83 L.Ed.2d 406 (1985)


Being parked is not enough... it must be up on blocks or hooked to utilities or parked in a camp site, et cetera.

FreedomIsNotFree
01-06-2009, 11:58 PM
Don't try and play semantics with a LEO in the field...its very obvious and could cause you trouble...legal or not. Either tell the truth and prepare yourself for a loaded check or just calmly say "no sir".

CA_Libertarian
01-07-2009, 12:09 AM
An officer can ask to search anything, if you give them consent it's your fault.

And after the fact, it's your word against theirs that you gave consent for the search. Hope you get an honest cop... (One officer told me, "everybody gives consent every time.") Carry a recorder if you want to throw a monkey wrench into the carreer of a dishonest cop. Even honest cops make mistakes, so record even the polite conversations.

sorensen440
01-07-2009, 12:11 AM
And after the fact, it's your word against theirs that you gave consent for the search. Hope you get an honest cop... (One officer told me, "everybody gives consent every time.") Carry a recorder if you want to throw a monkey wrench into the carreer of a dishonest cop. Even honest cops make mistakes, so record even the polite conversations.

I have a recorder as well and I keep it within reach for that reason

E Pluribus Unum
01-07-2009, 12:23 AM
And after the fact, it's your word against theirs that you gave consent for the search. Hope you get an honest cop... (One officer told me, "everybody gives consent every time.") Carry a recorder if you want to throw a monkey wrench into the carreer of a dishonest cop. Even honest cops make mistakes, so record even the polite conversations.

The game changes when the cop searches you and finds a voice recorder. Most newer cell phones have built in recording ability.

In my run-ins with the police that I have recorded, they see the cell phone and assume it is just that and pay in no mind. When they get caught perjuring themselves it brings a smile to my face.

BillCA
01-07-2009, 12:32 AM
An officer asking if you have drugs or weapons in the car is simply "fishing" for a response to give him PC. You are not required to answer his questions. Silence is best. If asked if you're going to answer the question, simply say "No." Most people will do so, because they think they must or have no convenient answer on hand.

"There is nothing illegal in my vehicle."
"Weapons? I suppose my tire iron could be a weapon."
"Am I required to answer that question officer?"
....[P.O. why wouldn't you want to answer it?
.....V.O. Because it's snoopy, invasive and irrelevant.]

With regards to being stopped with an enclosed trailer...
If the officer asks about firearm inside the vehicle - obstensively for his own safety - and the guns are in the trailer, an answer of "No" is appropriate and truthful.

If the officers ask if you have drugs or weapons in the trailer, the appropriate response is "there is nothing illegal in my trailer, officer." or simply silence.

If, at any time, an officer wants you to consent to a search the answer is "I do not consent to any search of my vehicle."

E Pluribus Unum
01-07-2009, 12:39 AM
An officer asking if you have drugs or weapons in the car is simply "fishing" for a response to give him PC. You are not required to answer his questions. Silence is best. If asked if you're going to answer the question, simply say "No." Most people will do so, because they think they must or have no convenient answer on hand.

"There is nothing illegal in my vehicle."
"Weapons? I suppose my tire iron could be a weapon."
"Am I required to answer that question officer?"
....[P.O. why wouldn't you want to answer it?
.....V.O. Because it's snoopy, invasive and irrelevant.]

With regards to being stopped with an enclosed trailer...
If the officer asks about firearm inside the vehicle - obstensively for his own safety - and the guns are in the trailer, an answer of "No" is appropriate and truthful.

If the officers ask if you have drugs or weapons in the trailer, the appropriate response is "there is nothing illegal in my trailer, officer." or simply silence.

If, at any time, an officer wants you to consent to a search the answer is "I do not consent to any search of my vehicle."

It might also be important to point out that it is illegal to make a false statement to a police officer when he is investigating a crime. If he has pulled you over for speeding and you know you were speeding, it is illegal for you to lie about it. You can plead the fifth, but you cannot lie.

If my memory serves me. in the case where he has pulled you over for speeding, he is investigating the crime of speeding. If he starts fishing for information and asking you invasive questions that have nothing to do with speeding, it is perfectly legal to lie to him. If he asks you "are there any guns in the car" you can say "No" unless someone has reported a gun being in your vehicle and he is investigating that tip.

ilbob
01-07-2009, 7:12 AM
the real answer is "none of your business". More people should stand up for themselves and not tolerate these fishing expeditions.

Glock22Fan
01-07-2009, 8:16 AM
You probably have a NRA sticker on your vehicle or trailer, correct? Not that it's a bad thing to have an NRA sticker on your vehicle but it probably inspired that kind of interrogation to begin with.


I don't remember where, but there is a court case where it was ruled that an NRA sticker and hunting clothing in plain view did not constitute grounds for a search.

Mayhem
01-07-2009, 11:55 AM
Hypothetically, I'm towing a camper trailer and I get pulled over. My firearms are secured in the trailer. In the course of the officers interrogation, I am asked if I have any guns in the car. Can I truthfully answer “No officer, there are no guns in this car” ??(although a 'gun' is an artillery piece that is mounted on a ship, has it's own wheels or mounted in a fort) His inquiry would not include the trailer would it? Also if he demanded a search because he thought that he had PC , would the search include the trailer? I mean the trailer is your home away from home, police can't search your home without a warrant so they can't search the trailer without a warrant, right ?? I'm just trying to figure out where to keep the firearms when I'm traveling.

Normally when a LEO ask you if you have a gun in the car he/she means "a firearm in the vehicle cab with you" not in the trunk not in your engine compartment (which would technically be in the car) and surely not in your trailer as it isn't even a part of your vehicle it's only attached to it. Depending on the situation this can be a typical officer safety question. If you lock your trailer your trailer can be considered a locked container. I'm 38 years old in my adult life I have never been asked to be searched or asked to have my vehicle searched. Typically if you get searched there's a some reason behind it.

If I'm not mistaken a trucks tool box and the trunk of a car and a locked trailer can be considered a lockable box. When traveling with firearms in California they need to be unloaded in a locked container. Ammo needs to be stored in a separate location or in a separate container. In other words you can't keep bullets in the case with the Gun. when in doubt error on the side of caution. A good book you may want to look into is "How to own a gun in California and stay out of jail"

SVT-40
01-07-2009, 1:03 PM
How about just avoid being stopped in the first place. Don't break the law and keep your vehicle in good mechanical condition with no illegal modifications.

Funny I've been driving since the 70's and I've been stopped only once. For speeding, and I was speeding.

Pretty simple.

sorensen440
01-07-2009, 1:10 PM
How about just avoid being stopped in the first place. Don't break the law and keep your vehicle in good mechanical condition with no illegal modifications.

Funny I've been driving since the 70's and I've been stopped only once. For speeding, and I was speeding.

Pretty simple.
Knock on wood I stopped getting pulled over about 8 years ago when I stopped driving black primered loud pieces of crap lol

pizzatorte
01-07-2009, 10:37 PM
It might also be important to point out that it is illegal to make a false statement to a police officer when he is investigating a crime. If he has pulled you over for speeding and you know you were speeding, it is illegal for you to lie about it. You can plead the fifth, but you cannot lie.

It was my understanding that this only applied to Federal law enforcement (although it may vary by state).If you get caught in a lie, it may tick the cop off, but that's not the same as committing a crime.

Also, asserting your rights is not "obstruction." That's simply absurd.

CZRyan
01-07-2009, 11:17 PM
Wow, I never thought that my question would get so many responses. I asked this question because I am thinking of getting a truck & trailer for travel between Highpower Matches. My son and I both shoot AR style rifles in the A2 configuration. Driving around with an AR in the car makes me a little nervous. I realize that getting searched is remote and I don't fit the profile (I apparently look like an overweight cop, or so I have been told) but if the vehicle is searched and the cop thinks I have a AW, I don't think any amount of waving flowcharts in his nose would keep you from spending a few hours (at least) detained.

I have been pulled over only 3 times in my 35+ years of driving, two were speed traps and they got me cold, the cops just waved me over and once was to tell me my headlights were off(dooh!, but no ticket). I purposely have nothing stuck to my current car or visible from the outside that indicates my interest in shooting. The only thing that shows that I have a hobby are my call sign plates and the antenna on the trunk( I'm a Ham also). But stuff happens and I would just like to minimize the stuff.

Thanks

SVT-40
01-08-2009, 11:34 AM
It's not necessarily against the law to lie to a Police Officer in Calif. The assertion that, if you say your "not speeding" when you are is a violation of law is just plain wrong.

Here are copies of the two relevant sections you COULD be violating if you lie to a Police Officer under very narrow circumstances.

Both are arrestable misdemeanors.


Section 148.9 California Penal Code:

148.9. (a) Any person who falsely represents or identifies himself
or herself as another person or as a fictitious person to any peace
officer listed in Section 830.1 or 830.2, or subdivision (a) of
Section 830.33, upon a lawful detention or arrest of the person,
either to evade the process of the court, or to evade the proper
identification of the person by the investigating officer is guilty
of a misdemeanor.
(b) Any person who falsely represents or identifies himself or
herself as another person or as a fictitious person to any other
peace officer defined in Chapter 4.5 (commencing with Section 830) of
Title 3 of Part 2, upon lawful detention or arrest of the person,
either to evade the process of the court, or to evade the proper
identification of the person by the arresting officer is guilty of a
misdemeanor if (1) the false information is given while the peace
officer is engaged in the performance of his or her duties as a peace
officer and (2) the person providing the false information knows or
should have known that the person receiving the information is a
peace officer.

Section 31 California Vehicle Code

False Information to Peace Officer

31. No person shall give, either orally or in writing, information to a peace officer while in the performance of his duties under the provisions of this code when such person knows that the information is false.

Added Ch. 1264, Stats. 1965. Effective September 17, 1965.

_Odin_
01-08-2009, 1:39 PM
If the cop asks if you have any firearms in the car and you respond, "Nothing illegal is in my car", it's a pretty obvious dodge to the question. The LEO isn't asking about "illegal objects" being in the car; he's asking if there are any firearms in the car. Giving an answer like that will make the officer even more suspicious.

Same is true in refusing to give a response to the question. True it doesn't give them the right to search you - but that doesn't mean they won't.

CHS
01-08-2009, 1:49 PM
If the cop asks if you have any firearms in the car and you respond, "Nothing illegal is in my car", it's a pretty obvious dodge to the question.

This is why you EITHER:

A.) Tell the truth and possibly deal with a longer stop
B.) Just lie. Nothing illegal about that.

BillCA
01-09-2009, 2:12 AM
PD: Do you have any weapons or drugs in the car sir?

Me: (slowly)"You..mean.. non-nuclear weapons...right?"

Me: "You mean besides the 35 nuclear tipped stinger missles in the back? Nah, nothing like that."

Me: "Darn! You ask that on the day when I left the Uzis at home!"

Me: "Can is see your fishing license before I answer that?"
(since the cop is fishing, it seems like a reasonable request)

Me: "Weapons? Let's see, I have a tire iron, jack handle, socket wrench, pocket knife, leatherman tool, two screwdrivers, 25 feet of truck rope, a piece of 2x4, a pair of maglites, 3 pencils and 4 ballpoint pens that could all be used as weapons. Aren't you glad you asked?"

Me: "Weapons? Only this garlic breath, officer."

Me: "Drugs or weapons? I'm too old for that kinda crap. If I can't solve it with the transmission in drive or retreat and full throttle, I shouldn't be there."

Fire in the Hole
01-09-2009, 3:02 PM
This is why you EITHER:

A.) Tell the truth and possibly deal with a longer stop
B.) Just lie. Nothing illegal about that.


False Information to Peace Officer
31 V.C.: No person shall give, either orally or in writing, information to any peace officer while in the performance of his duties under the provisions of this code when such person knows that the information is false.

Added Ch. 1264, Stats. 1965. Effective September 17, 1965.

Doheny
01-09-2009, 3:10 PM
How about just avoid being stopped in the first place. Don't break the law and keep your vehicle in good mechanical condition with no illegal modifications.

Funny I've been driving since the 70's and I've been stopped only once. For speeding, and I was speeding.

Pretty simple.

I agree. My same thoughts when I read the "CHP blog" post a few days ago. Don't have police contacts and you don't have anything to worry about.

nobs11
01-09-2009, 3:24 PM
If the cop asks if you have any firearms in the car and you respond, "Nothing illegal is in my car", it's a pretty obvious dodge to the question. The LEO isn't asking about "illegal objects" being in the car; he's asking if there are any firearms in the car. Giving an answer like that will make the officer even more suspicious.


I don't care how evasive he thinks I am being. No PC, no search. He is free to arrest me at which point I will sue him and the city for unlawful arrest (provided of course that you are in fact not doing anything illegal).

Ironchef
01-09-2009, 3:30 PM
A.) Tell the truth and possibly deal with a longer stop
B.) Just lie. Nothing illegal about that.


False Information to Peace Officer
31 V.C.: No person shall give, either orally or in writing, information to any peace officer while in the performance of his duties under the provisions of this code when such person knows that the information is false.

Added Ch. 1264, Stats. 1965. Effective September 17, 1965.

The provisions of "that code" are for a detention, arrest, or where an actual crime is being investigated, not for a traffic stop which results in an infraction (or whatever a moving violation is). This has been discussed before when "lieing to a cop" was brought up. This is why it's important to find out WHY you are being stopped by a cop..if you fit a description of someone who just robbed a bank, then yes, you tell the truth because he's questioning you in relation to a crime you may or may have not committed. Speeding or a broken taillight is not a crime.

I'm not saying you should lie at a traffic stop about weapons, but rather you should say as others have suggested "nothing illegal" or keep quiet or even "how can I help, officer?"

Fire in the Hole
01-09-2009, 4:00 PM
"Speeding or a broken taillight is not a crime."

Actually, you couldn't be more wrong about that. If it were not a crime, the police could not stop you for it. You could not be cited or arrested. Nor would you be subject to any fines or punishment. Your trial will be held in a criminal courts building.

Wearing short shorts with black socks, pale white skin, and varicose veins that look like an inflated road map makes me want to gag, but despite being shocking to society, you can not be cited fort it, as this is not a crime.

There are four levels of crime. Felonys, Misdemeanors, Infractions, and Ordinances. They are not just "technically" crimes. They are real.

Fire in the Hole
01-09-2009, 4:06 PM
The provisions of "that code" are for a detention, arrest, or where an actual crime is being investigated, not for a traffic stop which results in an infraction (or whatever a moving violation is). This has been discussed before when "lieing to a cop" was brought up. This is why it's important to find out WHY you are being stopped by a cop..if you fit a description of someone who just robbed a bank, then yes, you tell the truth because he's questioning you in relation to a crime you may or may have not committed. Speeding or a broken taillight is not a crime.

I'm not saying you should lie at a traffic stop about weapons, but rather you should say as others have suggested "nothing illegal" or keep quiet or even "how can I help, officer?"


But that is not what you wrote. You wrote, "Just lie. Nothing illegal about that." You did not state that this pertained to weapons alone, nor give any other disqualifing conditions. By all means to not volunteer information that you are not required to give. Most people tend to get diareaha of the mouth however.

pizzatorte
01-09-2009, 9:59 PM
There are four levels of crime. Felonys, Misdemeanors, Infractions, and Ordinances. They are not just "technically" crimes. They are real.

We're going down a rat's nest due to conflicting definitions of the concept "crime."

till44
01-10-2009, 7:28 PM
If you do give consent to search, which you shouldn't, remember that you can withdraw your consent at any time. Simply tell the officer that you're withdrawing your consent and that you'd like to be on your way or that you have an appointment to be to. Officer must stop the search unless they have PC to continue, and no withdrawing consent is not PC.

eta34
01-10-2009, 8:13 PM
The provisions of "that code" are for a detention, arrest, or where an actual crime is being investigated, not for a traffic stop which results in an infraction (or whatever a moving violation is). This has been discussed before when "lieing to a cop" was brought up. This is why it's important to find out WHY you are being stopped by a cop..if you fit a description of someone who just robbed a bank, then yes, you tell the truth because he's questioning you in relation to a crime you may or may have not committed. Speeding or a broken taillight is not a crime.

I'm not saying you should lie at a traffic stop about weapons, but rather you should say as others have suggested "nothing illegal" or keep quiet or even "how can I help, officer?"

Uh, a traffic stop for an infraction is a detention. Lying to the police about your name is a violation of 31 V.C. during said stop. You are incorrect here.

NotSoFast
01-10-2009, 10:44 PM
It would be interesting to see how the courts would rule on a concealed handgun in the bedroom area of the motorhome. Technically it is the residence portion but it is also a motor vehicle. Which, if they rule that its ok while parked, by the time the officer searched the coach, they would be parked and the concealment would be legal. :)

It would be best to treat the RV like any other vehicle until it is in a campsite or parked for the night. I would rather be safe than technical.

11Z50
01-11-2009, 12:31 AM
I don't remember where, but there is a court case where it was ruled that an NRA sticker and hunting clothing in plain view did not constitute grounds for a search.

Watch out for the DFG nazis, especially when in rural areas during hunting seasons.

I was in the National Guard for a few decades, and in the mid 1990's, so was my Son. At that time, I lived in a small town in the Sierra National Forest. My Son and I had been at drill and were both dressed in our BDUs. After drill, we were waiting at the park-n-ride for his buddy to pick him up, and we were accosted by a DFG warden while sitting in my pick-up.

It was spring turkey season opening day, as we found out, and the warden wanted to know if we were hunting since we both had camouflage clothing on. It was very obvious we were in uniform, not hunting attire, but I initially played along. I told him that we were not hunting, but were in the service. But no matter, I had a hunting license, so even if we were hunting I was legal, and I had no game in the vehicle. He asked if there were any weapons in the vehicle. I told him yes, I had a unloaded .22 rifle in the back (I had a camper shell). He asked to check it, and I told him he could. Sure enough, it was unloaded, but the he looked at my Son's rucksack which was also in the back, and he opened it up. At that point, I told the DFG warden, "OK, you're done. What are you looking for?" He told me as a DFG Warden he could search for anything he wanted. I told him I had nothing illegal, was not hunting, and I did not consent to any further searches. He wanted to search the passenger area, and I told him if he did I was going to call the Sheriff's Office since he was violating my rights. He asked me for ID and my address, and I asked him for his. I wrote his name down, or at least the one on his uniform, and he walked away and left.

Later, I complained about this warden's conduct to the DFG headquarters in Fresno, but got the basic blow-off by the Lieutenant in charge. He told me DFG had "customs inspector" exemptions to the 4th amendment. Whatever.

My point is DFG has become increasingly aggressive in my area and several people I know have been unlawfully hassled for just being in an area where people normally hunt and fish. Just yesterday, a neighbor told me he and 4 others working on a fence were accosted at gunpoint, cuffed, and detained for an hour because one of their party had a rifle and DFG believed they were hunting. After an hour of being harassed, questioned, and held at gunpoint, the work party was uncuffed and the DFG Nazis left the area without further explanation.

My point here is watch out for DFG, who appear to believe they are exempt from the US Constitution. They actively harass motorists in my area, and seem to believe they are above the law. In my area, many normal citizens have CCWs, and many also routinely have a legally transported rifle or shotgun in their vehicle, for many reasons. I live in an area where one could literally hunt or fish just about anywhere. DFG seems to believe that this means everybody is hunting so they can harass whomever they wish.