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mecam
01-05-2009, 7:38 AM
Can the police legally brandish their firearm to scare off potential criminals when off duty? Or how about being confronted by punks?

BitterVoter
01-05-2009, 7:48 AM
I bet they are not allowed to brandish...but the argument might be what a cop does isn't brandishing....

Ironchef
01-05-2009, 7:50 AM
Can the police legally brandish their firearm to scare off potential criminals when off duty? Or how about being confronted by punks?

Of course, but it would not be brandishing if they lawfully present a firearm. Just like non-leo's, they can present firearms (loaded) to prevent great bodily harm or death of themselves or others, or to affect an arrest/detention. The only difference between them and us (sorry to use the "us vs. them" meme), is they can CCW (LEOSA) and LOC in incorporated land.

If there's no threat to them or others, and they present, then that's a different question and I'm sure calcop, eta34, or leelaw can answer more accurately. My guess is if off duty, they can't present for mere show. Another thing is that they will always have the benefit of the doubt which may or may not allow them to tell a better story to suit their handgun presentation. Also, they can show their badge, say they are LE, and if their gun is shown, it would be legal I'm guessing (538 doesn't apply to them, naturally). Also, I believe 835 says they NEVER lose the right to self defense...though I'm not sure what that means..maybe they never need to put away their gun after a threat is stopped like a civilian might have to do (and unload so they don't get a 12031 charge).

eta34
01-05-2009, 7:56 AM
Basically, we are the same as you. If I fear for my life, someone else's life, or great bodily injury to any of us, I can "brandish" my weapon. If you cut me off on the freeway and act like a jerk, the law says I can point my gun at you. Only kidding...we don't have any special rules that I am aware of. In fact, many cops have lost their jobs for thinking they were special and pointing guns at people inappropriately.

Now, I will sit back and wait for the flood of anti-LEO rhetoric that is sure to come.

Tallship
01-05-2009, 8:15 AM
Have you heard of the case of SDPD Officer Frank White? :confused:

mecam
01-05-2009, 8:21 AM
Have you heard of the case of SDPD Officer Frank White? :confused:

Please do tell...

Beelzy
01-05-2009, 8:23 AM
The LEO's have special rules for "Breaking Leather", on or off duty.

They can do it though. Just not for wanting cuts in line at the movie theater.
:biggrinjester:

sorensen440
01-05-2009, 8:46 AM
Just not for wanting cuts in line at the movie theater.
:biggrinjester:

Yeah when I found that out I decided to make wine instead of going into law enforcement

tyrist
01-05-2009, 9:55 AM
The same rules apply on or off duty there is no change. On duty we are not allowed to exhibit our firearm without a set of articulable facts...the same goes for off duty.

In my own mind I will never let anyone know I have a firearm off duty unless they are about to be receiving fire.

mecam
01-05-2009, 10:00 AM
Here's a question, If you're standing on a corner and some unarmed drunk person is talking smack and walking towards you. Can you lift up your jacket and show him your holstered firearm? Does it matter if your badge is right next to your firearm?

nick
01-05-2009, 10:18 AM
Now, I will sit back and wait for the flood of anti-LEO rhetoric that is sure to come.

Damn LEOs :p

You asked for it, and you shouldn't tempt weak souls :)

tyrist
01-05-2009, 10:25 AM
Here's a question, If you're standing on a corner and some unarmed drunk person is talking smack and walking towards you. Can you lift up your jacket and show him your holstered firearm? Does it matter if your badge is right next to your firearm?

For your first question it would depend on numerous factors. The second one..if my badge is being displayed I am identifying myself as a Police Officer and legally now I might as well be wearing a uniform...the fact the gun is also present in a holster does'nt matter.

mecam
01-05-2009, 10:46 AM
For your first question it would depend on numerous factors. The second one..if my badge is being displayed I am identifying myself as a Police Officer and legally now I might as well be wearing a uniform...the fact the gun is also present in a holster does'nt matter.

So I guess LEOs aren't required to retreat like they teach us in CCW class. :)

DDT
01-05-2009, 11:04 AM
So I guess LEOs aren't required to retreat like they teach us in CCW class. :)

Is that law or just "what they have to teach?" I'd hate to be in the situation of trying to decide if I can push my son's wheelchair away from an assailant fast enough to keep from getting caught or stabbed/shot in the back.

mecam
01-05-2009, 11:06 AM
Is that law or just "what they have to teach?" I'd hate to be in the situation of trying to decide if I can push my son's wheelchair away from an assailant fast enough to keep from getting caught or stabbed/shot in the back.

From what I can remember, you are required to make an attempt to retreat first.

SteveH
01-05-2009, 12:11 PM
The minute they identify themselves they are no longer off duty.

I've heard of some cops getting themselves into trouble over that issue. out on their day off, have a couple drinks, see a crime in progress, ID themselves and detain the crook. Later they get busted for being under the influence of alcohol "on duty."

tyrist
01-05-2009, 12:24 PM
So I guess LEOs aren't required to retreat like they teach us in CCW class. :)

We don't retreat we reposition for tactical advantage.

No we are not "required" to retreat.

weatherman
01-05-2009, 12:25 PM
Can the police legally brandish their firearm to scare off potential criminals when off duty? Or how about being confronted by punks?

If a cop does it, then its not illegal... :rolleyes:

All jokes aside, I know a cop who did this. A couple guys were harassing him and his wife in Oakland. He drew down on the guys, they backed-off, nothing happened...

I'm pretty sure a cop from another agency wouldn't press the issue but technically, it's not legal. It's not even authorized for them to do that on duty. You can shake your pepper spray, you can open up your batton but if you pull your gun, you're either protecting yourself or your partner.

Tallship
01-05-2009, 12:53 PM
For those ouside of San Diego:

INTRODUCTION
This investigation involves the suspect, Rachel Leann Silva, driving a motor vehicle with her eight year old son as a passenger, in an erratic and aggressive manner, while under the influence of alcohol, and while her driver’s license was suspended. After nearly causing a collision with another motor vehicle, Silva followed the vehicle in an aggressive manner which included tailgating the vehicle, revving her engine, blocking the vehicle’s path and striking the vehicle with her vehicle. Silva escalated the situation to the point where the driver of the other vehicle, an off-duty police officer, reportedly feared for his safety and fired five rounds into Silva’s vehicle striking her son in the leg and her twice in the arm.

DETAILS OF INVESTIGATION
According to California Department of Motor Vehicles DMV records, on January 15, 2008, Rachel Silva’s California Driver’s License was suspended due to Excessive Blood Alcohol Level as a result of her December 15, 2007 arrest and subsequent guilty plea on January 19, 2008 in violation of 23152, subdivision (b), of the VEHICLE CODE Driving While Having a 0.08% or Higher Blood Alcohol, a misdemeanor.

On March 15, 2008, at approximately 2000 hours, Rachel Leann Silva had picked up her son, Johnny Silva, from a “play date” at 1990 Apple Street, Apartment #75, Oceanside, California. She was driving a four-door 1991 silver Honda Accord with California license plate number 5GOZ275. The Accord has tinted windows on both rear passenger windows and the rear window. There is a lighter tint on the front passenger and driver windows.
According to California DMV records, the Accord is registered to Rachel L. Silva, 137 Avenida Las Brisas, Oceanside, California.
According to evidence seized by OPD Detectives, on March 15, 2008 at approximately 2107 hours, Rachel Silva drove through the McDonald’s restaurant located at 185 Old Grove Road, Oceanside. After exiting the drive-through at approximately 2110 hours, she drove east-bound through the parking lot.

Witness, Priscella Betherum, had just turned from State Route (SR) 76 onto southbound Old Grove. Old Grove has two (2) lanes. After making the turn, Betherum drove southbound in the number two (2) lane of Old Grove. As Betherum continued southbound on Old Grove she saw Silva’s Accord “rolling” eastbound down the driveway of the Shell station and into southbound traffic lanes of Old Grove. Betherum was concerned because the Accord made no attempt to stop. Betherum was able to get by the oncoming Accord without being struck.

Off-duty San Diego Police Department (SDPD) Officer Frank White was driving southbound on Old Grove in the number two lane behind Betherum in a black 2006 Mercury Milan. Frank White’s spouse, Jacquellyn White, was the front passenger in the Milan. The Accord continued eastbound out of the parking lot and into the number two (2) lane, failing to yield the right of way to Frank White. Betherum saw the Milan in her driver’s side rear view mirror swerve abruptly from the number two lane into the number one lane to avoid being struck by the Accord. The Milan then drove back into the number two lane and continued southbound on Old Grove.

Frank White drove to the intersection of Old Grove and Avenida Soledad when he saw the Accord exit the driveway and drive southbound on Old Grove. Frank White saw the Accord drive into the left hand turn lane as he made a right hand turn into the Old Grove Market Place. After White made the turn into the shopping center, he saw the Accord drive westbound crossing all three (3) southbound lanes of traffic and follow him into the parking lot. Betherum also saw the Accord follow the Milan into the parking lot and proceed to “tailgate” the Milan. It should be noted that Rachel Silva’s reported address is 137 Avenida Las Brisas, Apartment A, Oceanside, California. It appears that Silva was driving home from the Mc Donald’s restaurant. If she would have continued with the left turn onto Avenida Soledad and then made the very next right onto Avenida Las Brisas, she would have arrived home. As Frank White continued to drive westbound through the parking lot, he saw the Accord accelerating and braking to the rear of his Milan approximately four (4) to five (5) times. The Accord’s engine was revving as it tailgated his Milan. He described Silva’s driving as erratic. White could not see the driver (Silva) and believed the driver had long hair with a light complexion. Jacquellyn White described Silva’s driving as aggressive because Silva was revving the Accord’s engine and following the Milan so close that Jacquellyn White could not see the headlights of the Accord. Frank White told Jacquellyn White to dial “911" which frightened her because he had never asked her to do so before. (Wife is a Dispatcher and knows 911 is only for emergencies) Frank White continued to drive westbound through the lot until he came to a “T” intersection in front of Lowe’s Home Improvement Store (155 Old Grove Road). Frank White made a right hand turn, and then another immediate right turn, driving eastbound through the lot. As Frank White continued driving eastbound through the lot, he stopped the Milan with the hope that the Accord would continue driving or stop and yell at him, and then continue to drive away. Once White stopped, the Accord drove past the Milan and stopped.

Witness Betherum saw the Milan stop. She saw the Accord drive in front of the Milan and stop, blocking the Milan’s path forward.

The Accord reversed direction, passed the Milan and stopped. The Accord drove forward, paralleling the Milan. Frank White stated that he was unable to exit the Milan because the Accord was so close.

Frank White was armed with a five (5) shot Smith and Wesson .38 caliber revolver. As the Accord stopped parallel to the Milan, Frank White stated that he removed his firearm from its holster located on the front of his pants and pointed it at Rachel Silva stating, “Police, you need to stop! Police, stop!” When she did not react to the gun pointed at her, White reversed the Milan in order to exit the Milan and obtain the license plate of the Accord.
After becoming aware that White’s gun was pointed at her, Silva dialed “911" and reported “There’s a guy who’s pointing a gun at me.”

As Frank White began to open the driver’s side door, he saw Rachel Silva reverse the Accord at an angle, and strike the Milan, their respective cars’ side view mirrors came into contact. The Accord continued in reverse and the right front side of the Accord struck the left rear side of the Milan. Frank White stated that he feared his life was in danger and he shot one (1) round through his closed front driver’s side window. It appears this round went through the left or passenger side front window of the Accord and struck Johnny Silva in the leg. As the Accord continued to reverse, Frank White shot four more rounds, each entering the front windshield of the Accord. Two of the bullets struck Rachel Silva in the right arm.

While Rachel Silva was on the telephone with OPD dispatch, several gunshots were heard as well as Silva stating, “I’ve been shot at.” When the dispatcher asked Silva who had shot at her, she replied “Some guy, a policeman.”
OPD officers arrived almost immediately after the shooting and began rendering first aid to Rachel and Johnny Silva. Johnny Silva was in the front passenger seat of the Accord and Rachel Silva was in the driver’s seat.
Rachel and Johnny Silva were provided with medical treatment and transported by Mercy Air. Johnny Silva suffered a gunshot wound to the inside of his left leg and was transported to Children’s Hospital. Rachel Silva suffered two (2) gunshot wounds to her right arm and was transported to Sharp Memorial Hospital.

A blood technician from American Forensic Nurse obtained a blood sample from Silva at approximately 2326 hours. The collision of the cars occurred at approximately 2114 hours.

On April 1, 2008, OPD Detectives received the blood alcohol results from the San Diego Sheriff Lab which revealed Silva to have a blood alcohol level of .15. If Silva had undergone testing at the time of the incident the levels of alcohol in her system would have revealed a higher concentration.
In her purse at the time of her driving, Silva had a baggie containing a green leafy substance, consistent in appearance with, and believed to be marijuana.

White is now under felony indictment by the DOJ.

tyrist
01-05-2009, 1:02 PM
If a cop does it, then its not illegal... :rolleyes:

All jokes aside, I know a cop who did this. A couple guys were harassing him and his wife in Oakland. He drew down on the guys, they backed-off, nothing happened...

I'm pretty sure a cop from another agency wouldn't press the issue but technically, it's not legal. It's not even authorized for them to do that on duty. You can shake your pepper spray, you can open up your batton but if you pull your gun, you're either protecting yourself or your partner.

Depends on the number of guys.

Prowler
01-05-2009, 2:21 PM
From what I can remember, you are required to make an attempt to retreat first.

That's okay...just retreat with your back to the threat and practice you "El Presidente". That way you're in the clear! ;)

nick
01-05-2009, 2:39 PM
White is now under felony indictment by the DOJ.

Hmm, WHITE is under indictment? Not Silva? Well, maybe there're more details to the case, but if that account is accurate, it's quite consistent with our screwed up justice system. It's prosecuting the wrong guy, as usual.

rbgaynor
01-05-2009, 3:13 PM
Hmm, WHITE is under indictment? Not Silva? Well, maybe there're more details to the case, but if that account is accurate, it's quite consistent with our screwed up justice system. It's prosecuting the wrong guy, as usual.

She (Silva) was also charged - felony child endangerment and a bunch of misdemeanors including DUI (.15 BAC). As for White, the prosecutor is arguing he over-reacted.

nick
01-05-2009, 3:17 PM
She (Silva) was also charged - felony child endangerment and a bunch of misdemeanors including DUI (.15 BAC). As for White, the prosecutor is arguing he over-reacted.

No assault charges?

CRQuarto
01-05-2009, 3:33 PM
No assault charges?

Sheesh.

rbgaynor
01-05-2009, 3:47 PM
No assault charges?

No, just the felony child endangerment and five misdemeanors: two drunken driving charges, possession of marijuana, driving on a suspended license and driving on a license suspended for a previous drunken driving conviction. The fact that she has not been charged with assault seems consistent with the charges that White over-reacted.

NiteQwill
01-05-2009, 5:31 PM
No, just the felony child endangerment and five misdemeanors: two drunken driving charges, possession of marijuana, driving on a suspended license and driving on a license suspended for a previous drunken driving conviction. The fact that she has not been charged with assault seems consistent with the charges that White over-reacted.

And just imagine... IF she had driven into a different lane, killed someone else or her kid. The story today would be different. White may have overreacted BUT IMO, he saved 4 lives that day.

nick
01-05-2009, 5:42 PM
Isn't second DUI a felony?

Builder
01-05-2009, 5:56 PM
Off topic: Rachel Leann Silva (http://209.85.173.132/search?q=cache:JmtJB1GD0YgJ:ag.ca.gov/cms_attachments/press/pdfs/n1570_criminal_complaint.pdf+Rachel+Leann+Silva&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=1&gl=us) had 2 prior convictions for 23152(b) on 4/12/07 & 1/29/08. She appears to have been convicted of the felony charge (http://www.sandiegoduilawyer.com/2008/11/felony-child-endangerment-and.html), while the misdemeanor charges were dropped.
Officer Frank White (http://www.thetruthaboutfrank.com/) has a trial date.

nobody33
01-05-2009, 6:20 PM
If a cop does it, then its not illegal... :rolleyes:

All jokes aside, I know a cop who did this. A couple guys were harassing him and his wife in Oakland. He drew down on the guys, they backed-off, nothing happened...

I'm pretty sure a cop from another agency wouldn't press the issue but technically, it's not legal. It's not even authorized for them to do that on duty. You can shake your pepper spray, you can open up your batton but if you pull your gun, you're either protecting yourself or your partner.

I could easily articulate how this could be legal (regardless or civilian or cop) and well within department policy. What are they wearing, how are they harrassing him and his wife, what time is it, what part of town? Do they possibly recognize him as a cop. Did he call 911? etc etc.

You don't have to be actually in danger for your life, you just have to articulate how you are reasonably potentially in danger. major difference. I have a gun out on building searches, and there may not even be anyone inside at all... but the potential is there.

It's no different for civilians.

Seesm
01-05-2009, 7:54 PM
Silva she sounds like a total WINNER... Nice Mom driving like a toolshed and causing all this mess....

CA_Libertarian
01-05-2009, 8:32 PM
Can the police legally brandish their firearm to scare off potential criminals when off duty? Or how about being confronted by punks?

I once was involved in arresting a corrections officer for brandishing. He was drunk and decided to pick a fight in a night club, then realized the other guy was about to kick his ***, so he flashed his concealed firearm. Unfortunately, the victim didn't hang around when he found out the guy was a LEO, so no charges could be filed. The incident was reported to his Sgt, but I'm not sure if anything came of it.

cubanos
01-05-2009, 8:37 PM
For a brandishing charge in violation of penal code section 417(a) one of the most important element is that it must be done in a , rude , angry or in threatening manner....Of course, if it is self defense no conviction but do not forget carrying a concealed firearm for us civillians ....You win the War ( the fight) but lose the battle( misdemeanor conviction)

Rob454
01-05-2009, 8:38 PM
I think they have to have a good reason to pull out a weapon. I dont think they can jsut pull out a gun and wave it around screaming let me to the front of the line.
Rob

Colt
01-05-2009, 8:44 PM
We don't retreat we reposition for tactical advantage.


Ah, the famous "retrograde maneuver!"

haodoken
01-06-2009, 6:18 AM
For those ouside of San Diego:

INTRODUCTION
This investigation involves the suspect, Rachel Leann Silva, driving a motor vehicle with her eight year old son as a passenger, in an erratic and aggressive manner, while under the influence of alcohol, and while her driver’s license was suspended. After nearly causing a collision with another motor vehicle, Silva followed the vehicle in an aggressive manner which included tailgating the vehicle, revving her engine, blocking the vehicle’s path and striking the vehicle with her vehicle. Silva escalated the situation to the point where the driver of the other vehicle, an off-duty police officer, reportedly feared for his safety and fired five rounds into Silva’s vehicle striking her son in the leg and her twice in the arm.

White is now under felony indictment by the DOJ.

I heard from my partner, who is a friend of White's, that Oceanside PD said he was justified in the shooting but the SD County DA (who wanted to make and example of him) pressed for the charges against him.

Even though we get to carry concealed, too much liability is put on LEOs for having an off-duty firearm. Sometimes it's better to be a good witness than get involved (Unless someone is about to be seriously hurt/killed).

I am so asking to be flamed for this but oh well... Let the anti-LEO rhetoric begin.

mecam
01-06-2009, 6:52 AM
I heard from my partner, who is a friend of White's, that Oceanside PD said he was justified in the shooting but the SD County DA (who wanted to make and example of him) pressed for the charges against him.

Even though we get to carry concealed, too much liability is put on LEOs for having an off-duty firearm. Sometimes it's better to be a good witness than get involved (Unless someone is about to be seriously hurt/killed).

I am so asking to be flamed for this but oh well... Let the anti-LEO rhetoric begin.

Sometimes it's hard to understand which side the DA is on. I guess which ever favors in excelling their career.

rbgaynor
01-06-2009, 7:20 AM
Sometimes it's hard to understand which side the DA is on. I guess which ever favors in excelling their career.

The DA down here isn't known for being hard on cops or seeking to make examples of them.

ilbob
01-06-2009, 8:06 AM
as a practical matter there are rules for what police are allowed to do to and what us mere citizens are allowed to do, and they are radically different, regardless of what the law actually says.

fairfaxjim
01-06-2009, 9:03 AM
What would be the outcome if it were a car full of gang bangers and not a woman and her child?? As for overreacting, that puts someone outside of the situation in the spot of making the judgement call after the fact - will never be the same call. In one sense, I can understand his instinct to pull the gun, but on the other hand, everyone was still inside the vehicles, and his wife had called 911. If a civilian had pulled and exhibited a firearm in that situation, the brandishing charge would definitely have been filed. If they had discharged the firearm, a whole host of firearms charges would have been filed, probably along with some assault w/deadly weapon, or similar charges. The reality is that if no one had exited their car or shot out of their car that night, no one whould have probably been injured, and Silva would have been arrested. If she was in a position where her playing destruction derby in the parking lot was about to injure someone outside of the vehicles, then the use of the firearm would be justified, but nothing in the report we have here indicates that existed. As a civilian, even with a CCW, I would not have drawn the gun in that situation, unless it escalated. As a civilian, without a CCW, I would definitely not have drawn a gun, and would most definitely have remained inside the vehicle. As soon as she had pulled alongside, I would have pulled ahead and parked in a regular parking space. Taking on nut jobs - or drunk nut jobs - in a public parking lot is a losing battle. I'm not an LEO, so I don't know what I would have done in that situation if I had been one - they still do have a duty to uphold the law while off duty.

As for the DA, they are political animals, and will react to what they perceive as political pressures as well as legal issues. I don't doubt that the DA perceives that having off duty cops shooting women and their children in the Lowe's parking lot has political implications.

The real bottom line is that when you empower people with arrest, and arm them, outside of their normal duty hours, you create a situation where

DDT
01-06-2009, 9:32 AM
Even though we get to carry concealed, too much liability is put on LEOs for having an off-duty firearm. Sometimes it's better to be a good witness than get involved (Unless someone is about to be seriously hurt/killed).


My stepfather is retired LEO. Worked patrol his whole 20-something career.

By the last few years he came to feel the same way. He stopped helping people on the side of the road off-duty and never stepped in to any issue that might require him to take the lead. The one exception was when someone's life was in danger. He and my mom were out fishing on vacation in Kentucky and a small storm popped up out of nowhere. They watched a john boat capsize and were able to pull the fisherman out of the drink and saved his life. They even got written up in the local paper.

It is unfortunate that LEOs take so much crap for dedicating their lives to being mostly underpaid, under-appreciated and all too often demonized. They put their lives on the line and their families all pay a major price too.

99% of the population claims to be on the side of the individual cops but when push comes to shove and they are required to make a "real decision" everyone and their brother is 6 feet up their rectum trying to say they know exactly what the "right" thing to do was and tell you how they would have reacted with adrenaline pumping and bullets flying. Cops are human, some are corrupt, some get a kick out of being able to flash the badge but most are better than average guys who want to make a difference.

Some scumbag wants to tell a cop (or civilian) how they are supposed to react to a vehicle being driven by a drunk blocking off their retreat and then trying to run them down can suck my well you get the point.

The fact that she actually identified the guy she's running down as a cop should be enough to vindicate the guy. She knew who he was and continued to chase him down. Why she isn't up for attempted murder on a police officer is beyond me. SHE ID'd THE MAN ON THE 911 TAPE.

Tallship
01-06-2009, 9:39 AM
Actually, the District Attorney, Bonnie Dumanis, is very pro-cop, and has in fact found every other OIS in San Diego justified. In this case, she was pressured by outside forces to recuse the DA's office from the case, and it is now being prosecuted by the state AG's office.

Liberty1
01-06-2009, 9:58 AM
417. (a) (1) Every person who, except in self-defense, in the
presence of any other person, draws or exhibits any deadly weapon
whatsoever, other than a firearm, in a rude, angry, or threatening
manner, or who in any manner, unlawfully uses a deadly weapon other
than a firearm in any fight or quarrel is guilty of a misdemeanor,
punishable by imprisonment in a county jail for not less than 30
days.
(2) Every person who, except in self-defense, in the presence of
any other person, draws or exhibits any firearm, whether loaded or
unloaded, in a rude, angry, or threatening manner, or who in any
manner, unlawfully uses a firearm in any fight or quarrel is
punishable as follows:
(A) If the violation occurs in a public place and the firearm is a
pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable of being concealed upon
the person, by imprisonment in a county jail for not less than three
months and not more than one year, by a fine not to exceed one
thousand dollars ($1,000), or by both that fine and imprisonment.
(B) In all cases other than that set forth in subparagraph (A), a
misdemeanor, punishable by imprisonment in a county jail for not less
than three months.
(b) Every person who, except in self-defense, in the presence of
any other person, draws or exhibits any loaded firearm in a rude,
angry, or threatening manner, or who, in any manner, unlawfully uses
any loaded firearm in any fight or quarrel upon the grounds of any
day care center, as defined in Section 1596.76 of the Health and
Safety Code, or any facility where programs, including day care
programs or recreational programs, are being conducted for persons
under 18 years of age, including programs conducted by a nonprofit
organization, during the hours in which the center or facility is
open for use, shall be punished by imprisonment in the state prison
for 16 months, or two or three years, or by imprisonment in a county
jail for not less than three months, nor more than one year.
(c) Every person who, in the immediate presence of a peace
officer, draws or exhibits any firearm, whether loaded or unloaded,
in a rude, angry, or threatening manner, and who knows, or reasonably
should know, by the officer's uniformed appearance or other action
of identification by the officer, that he or she is a peace officer
engaged in the performance of his or her duties, and that peace
officer is engaged in the performance of his or her duties, shall be
punished by imprisonment in a county jail for not less than nine
months and not to exceed one year, or in the state prison.
(d) Except where a different penalty applies, every person who
violates this section when the other person is in the process of
cleaning up graffiti or vandalism is guilty of a misdemeanor,
punishable by imprisonment in a county jail for not less than three
months nor more than one year.
(e) As used in this section, "peace officer" means any person
designated as a peace officer pursuant to Chapter 4.5 (commencing
with Section 830) of Title 3 of Part 2.
(f) As used in this section, "public place" means any of the
following:
(1) A public place in an incorporated city.
(2) A public street in an incorporated city.
(3) A public street in an unincorporated area.

homerm14
01-06-2009, 11:15 AM
My stepfather is retired LEO. Worked patrol his whole 20-something career.

By the last few years he came to feel the same way. He stopped helping people on the side of the road off-duty and never stepped in to any issue that might require him to take the lead. The one exception was when someone's life was in danger. He and my mom were out fishing on vacation in Kentucky and a small storm popped up out of nowhere. They watched a john boat capsize and were able to pull the fisherman out of the drink and saved his life. They even got written up in the local paper.

It is unfortunate that LEOs take so much crap for dedicating their lives to being mostly underpaid, under-appreciated and all too often demonized. They put their lives on the line and their families all pay a major price too.

99% of the population claims to be on the side of the individual cops but when push comes to shove and they are required to make a "real decision" everyone and their brother is 6 feet up their rectum trying to say they know exactly what the "right" thing to do was and tell you how they would have reacted with adrenaline pumping and bullets flying. Cops are human, some are corrupt, some get a kick out of being able to flash the badge but most are better than average guys who want to make a difference.

Some scumbag wants to tell a cop (or civilian) how they are supposed to react to a vehicle being driven by a drunk blocking off their retreat and then trying to run them down can suck my well you get the point.

The fact that she actually identified the guy she's running down as a cop should be enough to vindicate the guy. She knew who he was and continued to chase him down. Why she isn't up for attempted murder on a police officer is beyond me. SHE ID'd THE MAN ON THE 911 TAPE.

Amen!