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pullnshoot25
01-02-2009, 3:23 PM
My friend is a sheriff and we have a 10 dollar bet going about the necessity to show a form of ID when being contacted by the police, particularly when concerning open carry. He says that he can ask for ID and if the request is refused he can detain that person. I said that that open carry is not a misdemeanor/felony and short of probable cause for a Terry search or actual knowledge on his part of me committing a misdemeanor/felony, I do not have to provide an ID.

What say you, Calgunners? Liberty1 has to have something on this.

Off to work!

-N8

nick
01-02-2009, 3:28 PM
Well, it depends. In China or Russia, you have to show your ID at the LEO request, or you can be detained. In San Diego... probably not, not by law, anyway.

To the best of my knowledge, if you're not driving (in which case you have to have your DL with you and show it upon request), there's no law requiring people to carry IDs with them. For that matter, there's no legal requirement to even have an ID.

pullnshoot25
01-02-2009, 3:30 PM
All this is with respect to California, btw :)

petey
01-02-2009, 3:36 PM
It is illegal for certain persons to possess firearms, namely felons, certain persons under a restraining order, or those who are have been diagnosed with certain psychiatric / psychological problems. I do not think the courts would rule it unreasonable to detain a person who is in possession of a firearm until their identity can be determined.

The circumstances of the encounter/detention would come into play of course. Walking around a mall is one thing, and one could reasonably be expected to draw some LE attention (at least for now.) It would be a different case if the officer was checking ID's at a public range for no apparent reason.

tba02
01-02-2009, 3:37 PM
http://www.aclunc.org/library/publications/asset_upload_file654_3533.pdf
http://www.aclu.org/police/gen/14528res20040730.html
http://www.aclu.org/police/gen/14528res20040730.html3
"You must show your driver's license and registration when stopped in a car. Otherwise, you don't have to answer any questions if you are detained or arrested, with one important exception. The police may ask for your name if you have been properly detained, and you can be arrested in some states for refusing to give it. If you reasonably fear that your name is incriminating, you can claim the right to remain silent, which may be a defense in case you are arrested anyway."

hoffmang
01-02-2009, 3:38 PM
Kolender v. Lawson (http://supreme.justia.com/us/461/352/case.html), 461 U.S. 352 (1983). California's "must show ID" was ruled unconstitutionally void for vagueness. There is no other California Code that requires one to show ID when not driving. Note that SCOTUS has ruled that a state could have a "must show ID" statute that could pass constitutional muster but that was in Nevada and California doesn't have such a statute to my knowledge.

-Gene

tba02
01-02-2009, 3:48 PM
Not related to the ID, but the firearm
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=135991
In order to determine whether or not a firearm is loaded for the purpose of enforcing this section, peace officers are authorized to examine any firearm carried by anyone on his or her person or in a vehicle while in any public place or on any public street in an incorporated city or prohibited area of an unincorporated territory. Refusal to allow a peace officer to inspect a firearm pursuant to this section constitutes probable cause for arrest for violation of this section.

pnkssbtz
01-02-2009, 4:13 PM
My friend is a sheriff and we have a 10 dollar bet going about the necessity to show a form of ID when being contacted by the police, particularly when concerning open carry. He says that he can ask for ID and if the request is refused he can detain that person. I said that that open carry is not a misdemeanor/felony and short of probable cause for a Terry search or actual knowledge on his part of me committing a misdemeanor/felony, I do not have to provide an ID.

What say you, Calgunners? Liberty1 has to have something on this.

Off to work!

-N8Kolender vs. Lawson, 461 U.S. 352 (1983) (http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/scripts/getcase.pl?navby=CASE&court=US&vol=461&page=352)

Doh, HoffmanG is much teh fastar than me =P

FreedomIsNotFree
01-02-2009, 4:56 PM
Instead of proving you don't have to show ID under the circumstances you described, have him present proof that you do. The law doesn't typically enter into what is legal...usually they address what is illegal and anything not deamed illegal is legal.

hoffmang
01-02-2009, 7:13 PM
Instead of proving you don't have to show ID under the circumstances you described, have him present proof that you do. The law doesn't typically enter into what is legal...usually they address what is illegal and anything not deamed illegal is legal.

Yes, but sadly the Penal Code retains the portion deemed unconstitutional so you do have to know about the SCOTUS case above. There was a bill to remove it last session but I forget what happened to it. I know it was oddly controversial even though its moot code.

-Gene

bohoki
01-02-2009, 7:33 PM
if you are not required to carry id how can one be required to show it?

foxtrotuniformlima
01-03-2009, 6:39 PM
IIRC, you are not required to present ID must must ID yourself. That is to say, if they ask who are you, you cannot say Mickey Mouse. In this case, they would be asking for you to ID yourself so they can determine if you are a prohibited person.

thedrickel
01-03-2009, 8:26 PM
AFAIK . . . IAANAL . . . etc. . . . you have to give your proper name if requested . . . but no ID is required.

GunSlut
01-03-2009, 8:41 PM
A 9th circuit case several years ago out of Nevada, I think. You must give your name.