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View Full Version : OLL's, What Are They and How Can You Own A Legal Version


ontargetrange
01-01-2009, 10:15 AM
Just throwing this out there as a thought and maybe a wild moment. I am looking at having a Saturday morning -- say 8 AM to 10 Am here at the range, where anyone interested individual can come in and see/handle a CA legal OLL -- we could post the "Chart" on the wall -- have samples of various firearms and accessories here as well -- basically have a "Blackgun" day/morning --- invite (we all know someone that is interested) all who would like to learn what a legal version looks like -- what makes it legal/illegal --

Have various experts here to answer the questions -- we could expert an few of the DOJ here as well -- but overall have an open morning to show to people just what they hear about in the newspaper and TV that is EVIL -- I would buy the Ad in the newspaper as well to get them in -- could make for an interesting event ?????

Open to all comments on this one --

383green
01-01-2009, 10:47 AM
Hmm, that sounds like an interesting idea, if done the right way. I see multiple benefits:

1) Help dispel FUD and ignorance about those "evil black rifles": They're not machineguns, they're not any more evil that any other rifles, they actually fire less powerful rounds than common hunting rifles, etc.

2) Educate OLL-ignorant shooting enthusiasts about gun options they didn't know they had: I would guess that there are still many shooting enthusiasts who have never heard of OLLs and don't know that there's a legal way for them to buy/build an AR-like rifle in CA.

3) Educate people about CA's AW laws in general: Knowing the details about what's legal and what isn't is important for anybody involved with firearms.

4) Last but not least, clue in some more folks to the existence of Calguns.net, so they can come here to learn, educate, and participate in taking back their 2nd Amendment rights.

Oh, I suppose that the publicity for your range won't hurt, either. ;)

CalCop
01-01-2009, 11:19 AM
That's what I'm talking about...a business owner willing to stand up to the FUD!!! Will your employees be invited? What city are you in...I could bring mine.

Librarian
01-01-2009, 11:41 AM
Anyone want to tape it? :)

CalCop
01-01-2009, 12:02 PM
Anyone want to tape it? :)You mean for when the DOJ Iggy wannabes come to confiscate and arrest for legally configured EBRs?:rolleyes:

Librarian
01-01-2009, 12:20 PM
You mean for when the DOJ Iggy wannabes come to confiscate and arrest for legally configured EBRs?:rolleyes:

No, for content on the Calguns channel - see Going around the media (http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=141665)

CalCop
01-01-2009, 12:22 PM
No, for content on the Calguns channel - see Going around the media (http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=141665)I know, I was being facetious. I did see your thread on the Calguns channel...good idea.

DDT
01-01-2009, 12:48 PM
How sad that we need a class in this state to explain to people that not ALL of their 2A rights are gone. It's just a semi-auto .223 fer christ's sake.

cryptkeeper
01-01-2009, 12:53 PM
I think this is a good idea but I wish there was some way to do this and educate the people who are confiscating legal rifles. LEO.

chip3757
01-01-2009, 12:57 PM
Great Idea!!!! I'll be there

OCArmory
01-01-2009, 1:02 PM
I would be down for attending and trying to bring a couple of people

chip3757
01-01-2009, 1:11 PM
How could you get the local DOJ agent down to the event? Do they have field offices throughout the state?

You would probably need a meeting before the meeting to make sure they dont try to pull any FUD during the event. And anyone bringing their riffles better make sure they are doing it right. It would suck if a few illegally configured AW's show up.

bwiese
01-01-2009, 2:14 PM
I don't think the presence of DOJ will be helpful.

Given current legal mgmt, they'd either have their mouth shut or'd spew demonstrably incorrect info.

SoCal DOJ Firearms staff is not held in high regard by other LE agencies, including BATF and LA DA office. They've helped screw the pooch in some 'real' cases.

pfl101
01-01-2009, 2:18 PM
for later...

DDT
01-01-2009, 2:26 PM
for later...

You should use the "Thread tools" drop down box to subscribe to this thread instead of an empty post. It keeps the noise down and the signal up.

ke6guj
01-01-2009, 3:00 PM
You should use the "Thread tools" drop down box to subscribe to this thread instead of an empty post. It keeps the noise down and the signal up.
How else is he gonna get his post count up:confused: More than 25% of his posts are "for later".

DDT
01-01-2009, 3:02 PM
How else is he gonna get his post count up:confused: More than 25% of his posts are "for later".

I'd noticed he uses the tool regularly and thought I'd be helpful. :)

BONECUTTER
01-01-2009, 3:29 PM
No disrespect intended but people can already do this on at Riflegear, CWS, J&J, Ammo Bros, and more. And those places sell them too.

You would be better suited to rent a couple tables at the local gun shows and help spread the word and drum up some new customers for your range.

I worked gun shows for years selling black rifles and the question I hear the most is "Where can I shoot one?"

Go to a gun show....hand out flow charts and flyers from your range. Its a start. Hopefully some day you will start selling them yourself.

artherd
01-01-2009, 4:11 PM
In my eyes - it's not exactly new news. Education never hurts though, do it and see how many you stuff into the room. If there's demand - meet it :)

pfl101
01-01-2009, 4:15 PM
"You should use the "Thread tools" drop down box to subscribe to this thread instead of an empty post. It keeps the noise down and the signal up.

I'd noticed he uses the tool regularly and thought I'd be helpful."

Thanks for the tip. I didn't know the feature exists, and I do appreciate the goal of minimizing noise.

jmlivingston
01-01-2009, 4:27 PM
I am very open - and supportive - of any gunstore that is willing to reach out and spread the word on oll's, especially one that not too long ago (http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=139431) was distancing itself from the movement.

Sure there are a lot of stores that are selling them in OC now; however there are many that still don't (Turners, Fowlers, Grant Boys, Saddleback, etc). Anyone that's legitimately and responsibly promoting this stuff is good to go in my book. Is he going to make a buck at this? Probably so, but I don't care. Gregg sounds like he is willing to take the first steps forward to support and advance the black rifle movement in CA. Every member here on Calguns should support such a move, especially from such a prominant gunstore as On-Target.

Gregg, if you haven't already I'd recommend getting in touch with the CGF as you organize this event. Your previous posts seem to indicate that you aren't very close to the OLL movement, and the Foundation ought to be able to help educate you on the details.

John


(http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showpost.php?p=1819108&postcount=56)

rbgaynor
01-01-2009, 4:31 PM
No disrespect intended but people can already do this on at Riflegear, CWS, J&J, Ammo Bros, and more. And those places sell them too.

You would be better suited to rent a couple tables at the local gun shows and help spread the word and drum up some new customers for your range.

I worked gun shows for years selling black rifles and the question I hear the most is "Where can I shoot one?"

Go to a gun show....hand out flow charts and flyers from your range. Its a start. Hopefully some day you will start selling them yourself.

At the Del Mar show in December CWS had a big stack of flowcharts that they were passing out. Very cool to see (as were the big crowds at their booth).

Liberty1
01-01-2009, 4:36 PM
Just throwing this out there as a thought and maybe a wild moment. I am looking at having a Saturday morning -- say 8 AM to 10 Am here at the range, where anyone interested individual can come in and see/handle a CA legal OLL -- we could post the "Chart" on the wall -- have samples of various firearms and accessories here as well -- basically have a "Blackgun" day/morning --- invite (we all know someone that is interested) all who would like to learn what a legal version looks like -- what makes it legal/illegal --

Have various experts here to answer the questions -- we could expert an few of the DOJ here as well -- but overall have an open morning to show to people just what they hear about in the newspaper and TV that is EVIL -- I would buy the Ad in the newspaper as well to get them in -- could make for an interesting event ?????

Open to all comments on this one --

I'd like to see Calguns.net/Calguns Foundation booths at gun shows to do the very out reach you mention. Maybe some of our sponsoring FFL's would support the fees and pitch in for some banners.

The greater our numbers the greater our strength.

eaglemike
01-01-2009, 5:15 PM
At the Del Mar show in December CWS had a big stack of flowcharts that they were passing out. Very cool to see (as were the big crowds at their booth).
Brian,
I had those printed (at Kinko's - too much $$$ ) out of my own pocket. I was happy to help CWS and the movement by sharing them. I also had a few copies of the Sac memo there - those copies went right away - they went faster than free LPK's would have. :) Hector was really great about creating some space for them, and then I ended up helping him - at least I hope I helped. :) I also left a batch at the outside NRA booth.

I'm going to print and pass them out at the next Lemon Grove Rod and Gun Club meeting. IMO getting the info out through as many channels as possible is the key. There's a lot of guys in the club that still don't know the law. While many of them don't have EBR, they might catch it. :)

There is a local shooter that works in the county crime lab. He's written some memo's about this, but some still don't believe. Spread the word, and down with FUD!

Thanks to Gene for the memo and other documents, and RedHorse for the great job on the flowchart - and all the others that blazed the way!
all the best,
Mike

rbgaynor
01-01-2009, 5:46 PM
Brian,
I had those printed (at Kinko's - too much $$$ ) out of my own pocket.

Well done Mike, well done.

ontargetrange
01-02-2009, 12:39 PM
All,

I will be out of town for a few days -- trade shows -- I have always been an OLL fan -- just that with the previous bonehead owner I have been severally crippled in what I can do and say -- We have a large collection of OLL shooters here each week and with more than 500 rifle card holders it appears they are a responsible group of shooters --

I would hope that by doing this OLL day event we could get more than just people we know that have an interest -- I know women shooters that only started really shooting within the past year that would come to see and these firearms -- several would probably buy one ---

Taping it would be great and easy to do --- I would have the chart made into a wall hanger/big size -- any handouts I would be happy to get printed for the event etc...

I have seveal individuals that may be able to get legal and LE reps here for the questions part ---

As I will be gone for a few days I will try to check this while I am gone -- picking dates should be easy -- evenings or a Saturday Morning?????

Gregg

domokun
01-02-2009, 3:07 PM
All,

I will be out of town for a few days -- trade shows -- I have always been an OLL fan -- just that with the previous bonehead owner I have been severally crippled in what I can do and say -- We have a large collection of OLL shooters here each week and with more than 500 rifle card holders it appears they are a responsible group of shooters --

I would hope that by doing this OLL day event we could get more than just people we know that have an interest -- I know women shooters that only started really shooting within the past year that would come to see and these firearms -- several would probably buy one ---

Taping it would be great and easy to do --- I would have the chart made into a wall hanger/big size -- any handouts I would be happy to get printed for the event etc...

I have seveal individuals that may be able to get legal and LE reps here for the questions part ---

As I will be gone for a few days I will try to check this while I am gone -- picking dates should be easy -- evenings or a Saturday Morning?????

Gregg

Avoid the LE folks, get a lawyer that is well versed in this subject to avoid spreading FUD like the CADOJ does.

383green
01-02-2009, 5:49 PM
If DOJ or LE are there, then they should attend as students rather than teachers, IMHO.

NiteQwill
01-02-2009, 6:06 PM
If DOJ or LE are there, then they should attend as students rather than teachers, IMHO.

They're probably start the bullying as soon as other students step out the door.

383green
01-02-2009, 6:18 PM
They're probably start the bullying as soon as other students step out the door.

Good point. Let's also invite one or more of the Right People to attend, anonymously blend into the crowd, and be prepared to do or say the right things if anything improper happens. Also, have a camera + microphone running outside.

While I would not want to do anything to provoke unpleasant LE contact, if we feel that there's a greater than normal chance of it happening, then we should be prepared to deal with that situation properly.

Arkalius
01-03-2009, 1:26 AM
There are LEOs that have OLL guns and support the whole movement. Getting some of these guys is a good idea. I don't know if we have any allies from the DoJ that would be a good addition, but if there are, having them there would be good too. For newcomers to see cops and DoJ people there agreeing with and supporting this OLL stuff would be a very good thing and go a long way toward inspiring confidence in the legality of all of this.

Chances are you're going to get ordinary people at these events that themselves will spread FUD that they've heard. Things like "I know a guy who got arrested" or "This gun shop employee says it's illegal." If it's just the range crew teaching the class saying "no that's not true", some people may not feel totally confident in that. But, if LEOs and DoJ people are there saying "that's wrong" then that would go a long way toward eliminating the spread of FUD.

We just have to make sure we get the right LEOs and DoJ people (if they exist) to attend. I like the idea of a class on this stuff. Done correctly, it can positively influence the OLL movement, and get more shooters interested in these guns.

CalCop
01-03-2009, 8:52 AM
We just have to make sure we get the right LEOs and DoJ people (if they exist) to attend.How about paying for a plane ticket for Detective Halstead, who is listed on the OLL Sac PD memo?