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Librarian
12-31-2008, 3:35 PM
I put this up at .net while waiting for .org to come back, but I was reading other things, and Instapundit sent me to
http://copiousdissent.blogspot.com/2008/12/what-conservative-bloggers-can-learn.html

I've been arguing that a lot of the reason it's so hard for CA gun owners to get rid of the anti-gun politicians is that we can't get favorable or accurate coverage from the newspapers and the broadcast media.

And the current situation is producing a decreasing number of gun owners,and a decreasing number of people with actual knowledge of guns and gun owners.

Ronald Reagan used to say "it's not that liberals are ignorant; it's just that they know so much that isn't so."
At the link, Devil's Advocate suggests the avenue of a Youtube channel.

Any opinions on the concept?

Clearly 'who would do it' and 'what content' and 'how do we get stuff up often enough to keep the channel interesting' are all questions related to making the idea a success.

As starting a new topic on it might suggest, I think it's an idea worth exploring.

bwiese
12-31-2008, 3:47 PM
It's hard esp when supposedly impartial sources (news orgs) won't even accept corrections.

I've frequently sent email to SF Comicle about things like "Beretta service revolver" or "38 automatic" (in a case where I'm sure it was a 380 and not a far more rare 38Super), or the frequent SKS vs AK confusion.

Sometimes I get a response from the writer, "Yeah I wrote it correctly but they muck it up in Edit and it's out of my hands" or they just "stand by their story" (esp on SKS vs AK) because "they spoke to the arresting officer".

Librarian
12-31-2008, 4:30 PM
It's hard esp when supposedly impartial sources (news orgs) won't even accept corrections.

I've frequently sent email to SF Comicle about things like "Beretta service revolver" or "38 automatic" (in a case where I'm sure it was a 380 and not a far more rare 38Super), or the frequent SKS vs AK confusion.

Sometimes I get a response from the writer, "Yeah I wrote it correctly but they muck it up in Edit and it's out of my hands" or they just "stand by their story" (esp on SKS vs AK) because "they spoke to the arresting officer".

That's the kind of thing I'd like to see, but I'd really like 'response items' to be less of the content. I don't kid myself that any 'official spokesperson' would talk to a 'Calguns reporter' -- even if we had any -- but maybe reporters would go on camera, and maybe we could have a series of bits 'questions to ask about news stories', like 'story says it was an assault weapon, but does not say the gun was recovered. If LE does not have the gun in hand, how do they know? -- You Can't Tell Just By Looking'

A series of 'newspaper X reporter AB correctly said in the original story: the gun was an SKS. Uninformed editors at newspaper X mistakenly changed accurate information to the inaccurate AK reference' might get people thinking about how poorly the readers or viewers are being served by the media outlets.

That kind of correction - and applause, for good ones! - might be an 'In the News this Week' feature.

Another might be 'Sacramento Activism: hearings and scheduled votes on bills relating to guns'. And 'New bills this week: what they are and what they mean.'

We might have a running series on 'assault weapons' - visuals on what they are, mapped to the flow chart; pictures of the paperwork one should have filled out to register one before the various deadlines, and the paperwork one should have received from the State.

gcrtkd
12-31-2008, 5:17 PM
Librarian--

I think I'm having a serious episode of vuja de: http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=70287

I really like your idea of "response items", esp. if the link to the video of the interview with the reporter/legislator/expert were posted in the comments section at the end of a given article, clarifying and correcting the underlying claims of the article.

-gcrtkd

Librarian
12-31-2008, 5:24 PM
Librarian--

I think I'm having a serious episode of vuja de: http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=70287

I really like your idea of "response items", esp. if the link to the video of the interview with the reporter/legislator/expert were posted in the comments section at the end of a given article, clarifying and correcting the underlying claims of the article.

-gcrtkd

Why yes, that does look familiar, doesn't it? Maybe it was just time for it to come back around on the guitar...

gcrtkd
12-31-2008, 8:39 PM
I like your style, Librarian.

I've been spending a lot of time recently reading the Virginia Citizens' Defense League (http://www.vcdl.org/) and the VA portion of OpenCarry.org (http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum54/) and those people have it right. When a politician doesn't step correct out there, they get the VCDL smack down. While we're running around worrying about and waiting on Nordyke, incorporation, and UOC >1000' from a school zone that you may or may not know is there; they're shall-issue CCW and LOC down main street, on any publicly owned property, and in their General Assembly building (which I'm guessing is their statehouse)! Imagine that... a state where the General Assembly building is actually considered property of the people that paid for it, where the rights and priveledges of the people reign supreme. Remember the VCDL OC picnic video?? Beautiful. (Note: I'm not talking bad about the impending Nordyke decision (I've got everything on my body crossed for that one), I'm just jealous of the fact that the 2A isn't even a question in many states :-( )

Sorry if I got off topic and thread-jacked a little there. A boy can dream though, can't he? Is calguns.net the precursor to a California CDL?? Could we follow VCDL's lead? Could we band together with the VCDL for mutual support and advice? Or is the political climate that the VCDL developed in just too different from the one we have today in CA?

So, what needs to happen to make this happen? Organization, a coherent message, and clear concise professional presentation (i.e., no cigars and cammies). I've got an HD video cam... it's not a broadcast quality one, but it's pretty snazzy... should do the job nicely...

-gcrtkd

BitterVoter
12-31-2008, 11:20 PM
Well, the first thing to do on something like this would be to find people that would be able to write scripts, shoot video, and possibly the money needed to get a youTube channel and advertising.

We can have people from around the state provide the details and information and then 2-5 people maybe that can be the face of the production. It should cost little, heck, I have most of the equipment that would be necessary already!

Actually I looked and a YouTube channel doesn't cost anything! It is just creating a YouTube account it seems. We would have to make background images and logos, banners and such, but all can be done in Photoshop....Then it is a matter only of content and hosting.

thegratenate
01-01-2009, 11:12 AM
Sounds good, let's do it.

yellowfin
01-01-2009, 1:13 PM
First thing I'd say in dealing with the public is to drop the AW word from the vocabulary- the corrective process via flowchart is much too long and complicated when trying to keep the attention span of outsiders. Too much trivia. Keep it to the much simpler stuff like a purse gun is good to keep your wife from getting mugged or raped at the grocery store parking lot and ATM and it's worked all over the country. Or if you must, just say the AW word is just a political pejoritive that's basically the N word applied to firearms. That much the public can understand in 10 second soundbytes.

BitterVoter
01-01-2009, 1:20 PM
First thing I'd say in dealing with the public is to drop the AW word from the vocabulary- the corrective process via flowchart is much too long and complicated when trying to keep the attention span of outsiders. Too much trivia. Keep it to the much simpler stuff like a purse gun is good to keep your wife from getting mugged or raped at the grocery store parking lot and ATM and it's worked all over the country. Or if you must, just say the AW word is just a political pejoritive that's basically the N word applied to firearms. That much the public can understand in 10 second soundbytes.

I think we should have a much larger mandate. . . Much like the cop from San Jose that spelled out the actual assault rifle vs the named "assault weapons". He did a great job.

I think the best thing to do with it is act as a media outlet in this regard. We collect news and report it in a more accurate and gun-friendly way. And as a more educational we can have similar educational videos about the difference between legal rifles and assault weapons...the difference between OC and CC..etc.

I think the benefit here is we will draw more credibility as a media outlet than a "biased pro-gun group".

AngelDecoys
01-01-2009, 1:49 PM
Any opinions on the concept?

Using youtube for California Content is a good idea. Its a medium I think is under utilized by candidates, and other groups not normally embraced by the media.

Things for content just off the top of my head.

1. Periodic updates on current CA legislation/court cases etc.
2. Activist/gunnie of the month
3. Perhaps a series of infomercial commercials (there's a ton of things but here's 4).
-Building an OLL.
-Gun show report
-Appleseed review
-Various short info blurbs on "How to get involved," etc.
4. Range of the month clips (club submitted competition perhaps)
5. Range report for different venues. Half the time I don't think people have a clue what programs are even out there.

None of these may be where you're going with this, but I wouldn't mind seeing some of the following at a hypothetical 'calgunnewsmedia' on youtube. Heck clips could be posted here for input, then a final version uploaded to stay.

yellowfin
01-01-2009, 2:02 PM
Facebook is also huge, an easy second place to YouTube for public information power.

nick
01-01-2009, 2:15 PM
I think it's a great idea, and let me know what I can do to help. I've been considering something like this for a long time. The reason it's so important is that we wouldn't even need so many of the court battles if the public opinion even cared about the 2A issues. As it is, the public at large remains uninformed. Maybe when it's informed, it'll still reject the 2A rights, but somehow I doubt that.

I wouldn't limit the exposure to YouTube, but gotta start somewhere. Myself, I'll be starting a 2A blog, and contributions will be welcome.

BitterVoter
01-01-2009, 3:02 PM
Then lets think of some names and see what sites there are out there!

I have already reseved caocrights.org and ocrights.org, but those aren't quite fitting a "neutral" media outlet...or do we wish to make our bias known?

We should possibly appoint a lead on this.

DDT
01-01-2009, 3:09 PM
Why yes, that does look familiar, doesn't it? Maybe it was just time for it to come back around on the guitar...

Gotta love the Alice's Restaurant reference during the holidays.

DDT
01-01-2009, 3:45 PM
I do have a wiki site that I am not using for anything at the moment and would be happy to host (for now) an educational wiki for helping reporters understand firearms issues and also as a repository for good and bad firearms reporting with commentary.

I have a blank wiki page setup at the moment but feel free to add pages with info you are interested in adding and I'll work on a front page or let one of you talented people work up a front pag/mission statement per the above.

http://www.gunreporting.com/wiki

Librarian
01-01-2009, 7:08 PM
Glad to see this is getting some initial interest.

My thoughts had been much like BitterVoter and AngelDecoy.

One of the needs is video/sound-bite things, catchy and will stick in viewers' heads.

A lot of the things I blather on about just are not visual enough; I'd guess it would be a major production to get a 5-minute piece up that would be visually interesting, memorable and accurate. And 5 is about the maximum viewing time for a really interested person - 1-2 is probably more likely to have an audience.

Anyone on the board with TV-commercial writing experience?

BitterVoter
01-01-2009, 7:29 PM
I have written press releases, created advertisements, written scripts for radio advertisements, and have been interviewed for radio and TV before. . . Even done voice for some radio ad's.

Perhaps we can figure out what the first piece would be on/about and we can work on constructing something from there? Maybe in a name for the group or something...so that we can create the website and the YouTube channel.

Harrison_Bergeron
01-01-2009, 8:20 PM
Where are the leaders of this based, I would be interested in helping, but am SoCal based.

Three ideas:
1. Vids should be decent quality, even if that means buffer time increases. I think a higher quality product will have a greater affect.
2. A knowledgeable female host will attract a larger audience. See: Limalife.
3. Do something to control the comments, Youtube is terrible when it comes to anti-gun commenting.

Librarian
01-01-2009, 9:30 PM
Where are the leaders of this based, I would be interested in helping, but am SoCal based.

Three ideas:
1. Vids should be decent quality, even if that means buffer time increases. I think a higher quality product will have a greater affect.
2. A knowledgeable female host will attract a larger audience. See: Limalife.
3. Do something to control the comments, Youtube is terrible when it comes to anti-gun commenting.

1) Agreed; lousy videos are hard to watch.

2) agreed, also - as it happens, I personally resemble Uncle Jay (from the thread in off-topic) quite a bit. Can't sing, and don't smile so nicely. :chris:

3) Can we completely turn off comments?

I'd say "Comments? Register as a member at Calguns.net and see the CalgunsTV Forum".

If Our Gracious Host and Hosting Service might approve, that is.

But if comments come through a membership-only system, and we control membership, we can keep the sane comments and delete the cruft.

Did I just volunteer to moderate that? I think I did. :eek:

BitterVoter
01-01-2009, 10:48 PM
Comment options for a channel: I had an image, but it isn't resolving yet.

http://claytonscott.info/photoalbum/albums/userpics/10001/YTchannel%7E0.png

You can hide comments or filter based on content and approval. I have a YouTube channel already, but we would or should create a well or neutral owned one.

tacosauce
01-01-2009, 11:04 PM
I like your style, Librarian.

I've been spending a lot of time recently reading the Virginia Citizens' Defense League (http://www.vcdl.org/) and the VA portion of OpenCarry.org (http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum54/) and those people have it right. When a politician doesn't step correct out there, they get the VCDL smack down. While we're running around worrying about and waiting on Nordyke, incorporation, and UOC >1000' from a school zone that you may or may not know is there; they're shall-issue CCW and LOC down main street, on any publicly owned property, and in their General Assembly building (which I'm guessing is their statehouse)! Imagine that... a state where the General Assembly building is actually considered property of the people that paid for it, where the rights and priveledges of the people reign supreme. Remember the VCDL OC picnic video?? Beautiful. (Note: I'm not talking bad about the impending Nordyke decision (I've got everything on my body crossed for that one), I'm just jealous of the fact that the 2A isn't even a question in many states :-( )

Sorry if I got off topic and thread-jacked a little there. A boy can dream though, can't he? Is calguns.net the precursor to a California CDL?? Could we follow VCDL's lead? Could we band together with the VCDL for mutual support and advice? Or is the political climate that the VCDL developed in just too different from the one we have today in CA?

So, what needs to happen to make this happen? Organization, a coherent message, and clear concise professional presentation (i.e., no cigars and cammies). I've got an HD video cam... it's not a broadcast quality one, but it's pretty snazzy... should do the job nicely...

-gcrtkd

I haven't seen that site before. Very interesting video. In my head I insert California in the place of Virginia. Yes, a boy can dream.

"Is calguns.net the precursor to a California CDL??"

I hope...

Librarian
01-01-2009, 11:20 PM
Comment options for a channel: I had an image, but it isn't resolving yet.

http://img.claytonscott.info/images/A_8/0/1/4/54108/YTchannel_077b6.png

You can hide comments or filter based on content and approval. I have a YouTube channel already, but we would or should create a well or neutral owned one.

Hide comments I think is the answer Channel Comments:
Display comments on your channel.
Do not display comments on your channel.

nick
01-01-2009, 11:39 PM
Well, I'm not in NorCal, I'm in Los Angeles area. However, I write, I do research, and I'm in IT, in case that last bit is needed. And I'm available for this.

thegratenate
01-02-2009, 12:14 PM
I think that this needs to fair, while showing our side, if we edit comments it will smell funny. No comments would be better. Anybody have any candidates for the female anchor?

I say start out by picking the low hanging fruit, a report on how to legally own a rifle that is visibly and functionally identical to the famed "assault weapons" that are banned would be nice to have, and maybe some info on the CCW system in california, vs free states. There are dozens of topics that could be done, why not get started?

Harrison_Bergeron
01-02-2009, 12:48 PM
Another recommendation: Make sure that lines are thought out ahead of time and memorized, or/and have cue cards. Some of these vids on youtube about gun tech, laws, and safety, while accurate, are just awful with the constant, "Umm, well, oh yeah..."

thegratenate
01-02-2009, 12:58 PM
Either cue cards, or reading from some sort of prompter would be needed, maybe a couple of auditions wouldn't be a bad thing. The team that takes this ball needs to coordinate a professional looking newscast. It shouldn't be hard to even set up a monitor next to the camera and read from that, without a crowd there is no need for a fancy telepromter, just a clean and professional appearance in front of the camera.

There is no reason not to do this, and there is no reason that it can't be done well.

Librarian
01-02-2009, 3:58 PM
So, let's do a preliminary set of top-level requirements. No special order here.

* We need an overall goal. I suggest that goal is 'better informed voters for better legislators who will write better legislation'. We want to counter misinformation with accuracy. We want to defuse emotional arguments against guns. We want better -- and fewer!! -- gun laws.

And we need to look at any proposed content and decide how it helps us reach the goals - and not spend time on things that don't help.

* We need a channel to get the information out. A YouTube channel looks reasonable because of the ease of use for readers and the number of readers possible; YT is pretty popular, and that's important.
-- will YT censor content?
-- can we avoid the silly 'marked inappropriate, gotta take it down' problem?

* We need to determine our audienceThis could be more interesting.

I think it's clear that we're not going to influence the emotionally committed antis. They're so involved at a visceral level that facts really don't matter.

We could provide a bunch of things, like a visual FAQ for n00bs.

We could do gun-based current events for folks already interested in gun issues.

We could provide information of some kind for folks who are not already interested in guns, though how we get them to watch the channel is a problem. In this vein, I'm reminded of the Rodney King events in LA, where folks suddenly wanted guns and were astonished that there was a waiting period. They didn't know.

* We need to pick a 'voice'A standard spokesperson or small number of them is a good idea. But here I mean an 'attitude'. If I had to pick a description for what I try to convey, it's 'calm rationality'. (There are other, less-neutral descriptions I'll admit to, if mentioned :) )The 'voice' determines phrasing, vocabulary, emotional content, and to some extent story/topic selection.

We might have slightly different 'voices' for different audiences.

And given demographics in the state, I think we need to provide some important content in Spanish.

* We need to pick people with experience already, or who can pick it up I've never tried to set up such a thing as this. Camera operators, lighting, writers, editors, the 'channel manager', on-camera people? I don't think I even know all the roles.

* We need at least a preliminary set of topics with repeating interestWe need repeat viewers to increase audience and get out the messages. So we need continuing stories or events to get people to come back.

* We need technical resourcesCameras, editing facilities, a place to create content, I don't know what all else.

And we need to figure out how to beat the geography problem - Norcal and Socal are pretty far apart; things can be done in several places, on parallel courses; distributed processing works, but I think not for all tasks.

There; just a start. Happy New Business Idea, folks! What's the saying? Plan to succeed, or plan to fail? Something like that.

BitterVoter
01-02-2009, 4:44 PM
Actually, with the advent of the internet and content sharing we can do a lot of this stuff from multiple locations with ease.

Although the high-tech equipment you mention would be helpful, sometimes when starting out it is too much. I have experimented and some cheap "work" lights are perfect and much cheaper than the "professional" equipment. Other things like simply getting a good background or green sheet so that we can easily add backgrounds and such can be attained from places like Sammy's Camera for not much.

You would be amazed at how quickly an unskilled person can learn the tricks enough to produce a professional looking video or image.

Another thought. . . For those involved the real expense would be software...the software and infrastructure to be able to collaborate.

YouTube also is used in many occasions to spread information. As long as it isn't grossly negligent I don't believe they will filter for content.

So, again, we should come up with a channel and organization name, develop a logo.

fullrearview
01-02-2009, 5:14 PM
I think we should have a much larger mandate. . . Much like the cop from San Jose that spelled out the actual assault rifle vs the named "assault weapons". He did a great job.

I think the best thing to do with it is act as a media outlet in this regard. We collect news and report it in a more accurate and gun-friendly way. And as a more educational we can have similar educational videos about the difference between legal rifles and assault weapons...the difference between OC and CC..etc.

I think the benefit here is we will draw more credibility as a media outlet than a "biased pro-gun group".

I think this is a great Idea and I know I would love to get involved.

dirtyJ
01-02-2009, 8:56 PM
It's actually surprisingly easy to put on a good 1-5 minute spot. The hardware and software needed are readily available, and I'm sure there's people on the forum that would be willing to lend out their time and equipment to help out. The hardest part, would be sticking with it, and making sure that everything keeps moving, and not stalling out. Next hardest would be good, solid, easy to understand writing. I've done broadcasting for over 5 years now, both as a voice behind the mic, and as video production, and for me, the hardest part was actually writing the few things that had to be written beforehand. I'd love to help, got a decent amount of free time, so when I'm not actually working, I can do some video editing, voice overs, even in front of the camera work as well. Only real thing I don't have is a high quality camera and studio, everything is is gravy.

gcrtkd
01-02-2009, 10:18 PM
Hey Guys (& Gals)--

Been keeping an eye on this thread and I like what I smell cookin'... I started writing after Librarian's last post and just finally finished...

A few comments (long, but worth the trip):

1) For organizational purposes, we should probably just go ahead and make the logical NorCal/SoCal split and have 2 central CalGuns media hubs; one up in the Bay Area, and one down in the LA/SD area. I recommend pushing this --> CalGuns Frappr Map (http://www.frappr.com/calguns/map) to encourage everyone to sign up for it for org purposes.


2) Goal setting: I don't know what others think about this, but we really need to consider our audience for this media outlet. Are we trying to convert the masses or are we going to preach to the choir. For eg., to us gunnies, the CA AW laws, CCW struggle, UOC "rules" & prohibitions, & Heller, Harrot, & Nordyke cases are daily topics of conversation... but they aren't for most people. An important thing for anybody trying to sell an idea is to have their 30 sec. "elevator pitch", so when they've got a VC guy or a CEO trapped in an elevator with them for 30 secs., they can hit all the high points. We should probably do a few <5 min "primer" episodes, such as:

Lead-in: "Hello, my name is XYZ. Welcome to the brand new Calguns News Network where we will be discussing your rights as a citizen and as a firearm owner in California. For too long, the labyrinth of California firearms laws has created barriers, both real and perceived to the lawful expression of the rights enjoyed by firearms owners in CA. [The Internet provides us with a powerful tool to band together and fashion our message.] Our goal is to have a frank, honest, and open discussion of firearms laws, raising awareness of what is and is not legal. Please join us as we discuss your rights!"

EPISODE 0) Reference to firearms safety
a) Your gun, your bullets, your responsibility (there is no such thing as an AD, only NDs), no exceptions
b) Firearms ownership and handling is an awesome responsibility
c) We don't believe that everyone (children, criminals, the mentally ill) should have access to firearms but we do believe that everyone who has not proven themselves unworthy should have the right and the tools of self defense and the defense from a tyrannical government.
---
EPISODE 1) The laws for owning a handgun in CA
a) Yes, you CAN own a handgun in CA!
b) What are the differences between a revolver, semi-auto, and automatic
c) HSC requirement
d) DROS, & waiting period (required by the State of CA, not the Fedgov)... why, if Katrina, the LA riots, or any other SHTF where you live (saaaaaay in SF), you too will have to wait 10 days before being allowed to take your bought and paid for gun home to protect your family and property. There is no, "But I really need it NOW" exception.
e) That you have to wait 10 days to pick up a new gun, even if you already own one... because you might do something bad with the new one that you wouldn't do with the old one, presumably
f) 10 rd mag restriction (anything less is a joke... anything more is a felony... well, in CA and DC)-- BTW, I would love to see a demo of someone shooting through 3 full cap, 17 rd Glock mags as fast as possible with combat reloads (Glock b/c I like Glocks, and b/c it is the "Ford Taurus of handguns") and then the same thing with 5 CA-legal 10 rounders... then display on the screen: "52 rds from standard (read: CA felony) capacity magazines: X secs; 51 rds from CA legal magazines: Y secs". How close are X and Y? Probably very close.
g) What handguns may you own? (Safe handgun list) How was this list selected & why isn't the gun I want on there?
h) Transport laws... this leads into a whole 'nother episode on CCW and the fact that there is no objective manner by which they are "awarded"
---
EPISODE 2) Owning a long gun in CA (perhaps 2 episodes)
a) Bolt action v. semi-auto v. 3 rd burst v. full auto v. shotgun (link to San Jose PD video)
b) Common rifle calibers
c) The venerable 10/22
d) The "...shoulder thing that flips up"
e) (This saga probably deserves it's whole own episode... "episode 2A" perhaps?) CA AW "laws"/AKA: Black Rifles... Explain, "This is an M16. This is an AR15, the civilian version of the M-16. This is a Ruger Mini-14. These guns all shoot the same bullet, at the same speed, with the same power. All of the other differences are purely cosmetic."
f) Explain that a rifle is made up of a lower receiver and an upper barrel assembly
g) Explain the historical saga of the AR/AK "series ban" --> Specific make and model ban by DOJ/BOF --> Kassler List/Harrot v. Kings --> OLLs, SB23/evil features ban, 3 definitions of AWs in CA... explain how a lower that would get you a felony conviction is exactly the same as one that is off list, except for a stamp mark of the make and model
h) Our law works upon the principle: That which isn't prohibited is legal. Remember, you can't break the intent of a law.
i) Things which aren't illegal in certain combinations...BBs, Prince 50's, MonsterMan Grips (perhaps a word from a Stanford/Berkeley/UCLA topologist or 2, saying, "Ummm, where's the hole?"), 10/30 mags... then come full circle back to, "All of these shoot the same bullet at the same speed, with the same power... why do we need all of these ridiculous doo-dads to comply with laws that criminals don't bother following anyways? What makes California citizens any different from the citizens of other states?" Maybe have someone stand at the border of CA and NV/AZ and jump back and forth, saying "Felony, 1 year in prison on this side... completely legal on this side." Just to show how ridiculous the law is in CA.
---
EPISODE 3) Microstamping
a) What it is and how it "works"
b) History of ballistic database matching... has it actually solved any crimes? Esp. considering that...most crime guns are stolen anyways
c) how easily defeated it is... filing firing pin, picking up others spent brass, replacing firing pin... 30 seconds on a Glock
---
EPISODE 4) There is No Such Thing as the Gunshow Loophole
---
EPISODE 5) Legal issues
a) Discussion of SCOTUS decisions
b) Miller Decision & misinterpretation thereof
c) Heller Decision (the cornerstone decision) --> The 2A of the Constitution does not create a right, but rather it recognizes the human right of individual firearms ownership... yes, individual, not collective... and yes, this is the SUPREME COURT of the United States... the highest court in the land.
d) Nordyke v. Kings (the beginning of the end of CA gun laws?): Currently, the Heller decision only applies to the federal enclave of DC (the location, plaintiff, and court system were chosen specifically b/c they offered a "clean" case, where States Rights were not at issue). NvK probably can't be decided without deciding whether or not the 14th Amendment incorporates the 2nd against the state of CA.
e) Moving forward... if the 2nd gets incorporated against CA, it undermines, well, most every CA firearms law, since they are based on the collective rights interpretation of the 2nd and the SCOTUS Heller decision clearly says that this interpretation is wrong.
f) Now that the SCOTUS has told us what the first 23/27ths of "a well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed" means, all that is left is to figure out what "shall not be infringed" means... hmmm, I wonder. (Well, there may a couple of last gasp issues with "keep and bear", and arguably even "arms", but those should be straightforward to make sense of.)
.................
Post is too long... more to follow... -gcrtkd

gcrtkd
01-02-2009, 10:18 PM
... contd from previous post...

-gcrtkd

---
EPISODE 6) Personal Responsibility
a) While police cars say "To Serve and Protect" on the side, and every police officer that I know would take a bullet for a citizen they don't even know, multiple SCOTUS decisions declare that the police are not your personal security and they have no duty to protect any individual person... only society in general. (I mean to cast no aspersions upon LEOs. They have a terribly difficult job and are placed under nearly impossible societal constraints) (In fact, a note... our goal should be to attract as many allies (LEOs/undecideds/moderates) as possible, never to polarize anyone against us.)
b) When seconds count and your life is on the line, the police are just minutes away. Again, my utmost respect to LEOs, but they can't be everywhere all of the time. Bad people can strike wherever and whenever they choose. Only those on scene at the time of an incident can respond immediately. More often than not this will be a non-LEO. I've been watching a lot of these Brinks (I believe) home security system commercials, you know, where the parents go out for dinner leaving their teenage daughter at home, and then some BG throws a brick through the plate glass window in the living room... the alarm goes off and then the BG heads for the hills while the Brinks security folks in some office somewhere call the house phone. Those commercials always and only show the BGs running off and the vic answering the phone. They never show the (avg for an active shooter) 2 minute response time for PD to get to the house and what happens during those intervening 120 seconds. It doesn't take 2 minutes for a BG to shoot, stab, choke, or incapacitate a victim, stuff them in a car trunk, and drive off. Perhaps a counter video of what really happens during those 2 minutes when a meth head or a norteno does a home invasion robbery would be eye opening. And besides, who cares if the police arrest the guy who just murdered your daughter? That doesn't bring her back.
---
EPISODE 7) Why Firearms Laws in CA Laws are Outside of the Mainstream
a) 38 states with Shall Issue CCW... completely subjective system in CA, with all power in the hands of the county sheriff/COP. A system ripe for corruption... i.e., only celebs in LA, former OC sheriff seems to have sold guns and badges, etc.
b) Patchwork of County and local laws
c) DOJ BOF refuses to answer firearms owner's questions as to what is and is not legal, and more often confuses the matter, issuing underground regulations and misinforming DAs
d) A FBI Crime Study (http://www.nraila.org/Issues/FactSheets/Read.aspx?id=228&issue=011) shows that CA & DC, which are widely acknowledged to have the strictest firearms laws in the US (CA is one of 2 states to receive a "passing grade" from the Brady org), also have the highest crime rates in the country. The laws are empirically ineffectual.


In my field (physics research), all claims and statements are assumed false unless proven and/or a reputable reference is provided. Every CalGuns News Network "episode" should have a list of references at the end so that all claims and statements are traceable to independent and original sources (US Constitution, SCOTUS decisions, CA Penal Code, case law). Otherwise, all of this hard work is easily dismissed on emotional grounds by antis as "just a bunch of knuckle-dragging gun nuts" who learned how to work a video camera.


3) So, we need to start getting working groups together. As has been mentioned before, we are going to need:
-Script writers
-Fact checkers..............very important!
-Reference "getters".......very important!
-High quality Audio/Video equipment & editing facilities... a lot of these kids make pretty impressive YouTube videos with just a HD digital video camera and a laptop, so why can't we?
-Logos, artwork, crawls, transitions
-Storage & distribution... YouTube/GeoVario
-Calguns News Network "Anchors"... perhaps an open internet "call"/audition. Attractiveness and proper diction a plus, females preferred, with male "sidekick". Perhaps ask around on the ladies forum...
-Common virtual workspace. I know that there are programs out there to do this. Does anyone know of a virtual workspace program where we can share files/scripts/ideas/clips?
-I think that it is a good idea to have a place where we can all comment on a script or video before it is released on a forum such a YouTube. The great thing about the Internet is that we can all work together without actually having to be in the same place!

This is where we need to start putting our money (well, free time) where our mouths are. We need people to step us as directors, editors, writers and all of the above. C'mon boy & girls... damn the torpedoes and... well, you know the rest.


4) Dress code. You are your message. We are America. We are you. We are who Americans want to be. Our manner of dress, speech, and plain old fashioned common sense should resonate with everyone but the most hardened anti. Male gunnies should wear a white shirt, tie, and slacks appropriate for broadcast, and female gunnettes should wear smart business apparel when on air. Range gear, t-shirts, ball/boonie caps, jeans, cammies, BDU's, etc. should be avoided at all costs, unless a range segment is being highlighted. We are our audience's neighbors, co-workers, doctors, lawyers, engineers, bus drivers, mechanics, clerks, bosses, and employees. Trying to force someone to change their mind will be about as easy as pushing a wet noodle up through a hole in the ceiling. We want our audience to say, "Hey, I really agree with what this guy is saying."


Okay, I'm sure there's a lot I'm neglecting to put in here but this msg has been on my screen most of the day and I'm sure you've all been dying to read my opinions. Let's keep this ball rolling.

-gcrtkd

But what do I know... I'm just a junior member ;-)

radioburning
01-02-2009, 11:47 PM
Hey, gcrtkd, come back when you have some ideas, will ya?:D

Seriously, these are some great points, and well written.

Librarian
01-02-2009, 11:53 PM
Hey, I like junior members!

Good ideas, gcrtkd.

I've been doing something more limited, intended for the more general (mostly non-gun) audience. Here's my very first cut at something like a script. It doesn't meet usual form, because I don't feel like manually setting up columns in HTML!

Here's an inspirational article:SFGate
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2008/04/03/BADOVUME1.DTL&type=printable

Man killed on Potrero Hill from Fairfield
xxxx xxxxxx, Chronicle Staff Writer
Thursday, April 3, 2008

(04-02) 13:20 PDT San Francisco - --

Authorities today identified a man who was shot and killed on Potrero Hill in broad daylight Tuesday as a 40-year-old Fairfield resident.

K M was in the passenger seat of a van when two men in ski masks fired assault weapons into the vehicle on Turner Terrace, a dead-end street, at 1:38 p.m.

Police say the driver of the van fled after crashing it into a railing on the cul-de-sac following the shooting.

So, here’s an article mentioning a murder and “two men in ski masks fired assault weapons”

If we were doing a news story, obviously, the first thing to do would be to contact the reporter and ask where he got that information. Was the source of ‘assault weapon’ an editor, the reporter, the police or witnesses?

There are two angles to cover there:

1) did the reporter accurately write what he was told? was what he wrote changed before the article was published?

2) presuming accurate reporting, how reliable were witnesses? How credulous were the police? Did the witnesses say ‘assault weapon’ or did police add that term? If not based on witnesses, who in the police chose ‘assault weapon’?

I pulled the reporter's name and contact info here, because I'm not picking on him, and the article is from April anyway.

Because this one isn't exactly news.

POINT OF SPOT:
(1) create doubt that news reporters are giving good information about guns (whether the reporters/editors are doing it, or the police)
(2) create doubt that ‘assault weapons’ are actually being used in crimes


Video: stock footage of newsroom – desks, chairs, computer screens, a few people
Audio: traditional typewriter sounds, phones ringing softly, quiet conversation (Typewriter sounds for computers? Give the audience what it expects!)
Cut to
Video: a slowly scrolling top to bottom display of the story from the paper, with ‘assault weapons’ bolded. (Substantially as quoted above)
Audio: Voice: The paper reported a murder last week, saying the killers used 'assault weapons'.

The paper doesn’t say the shooters were caught.

How do they know what kind of rifles the crooks used?
----
Video: 2 men in different colored (e.g. red, blue) ski masks, otherwise dressed in casual clothing. Each holds a rifle at ‘port arms’, walk together towards the camera at an angle L-rear, abt 30 ft from camera to R-front, abt 10 ft from camera.

4 passes – each time each one has a different rifle, 8 rifles in all.

In each pass, Red-mask has an assault weapon, blue-mask has some other rifle. The men do not speak.
----
Video: Pass 1
Audio: Voice: Here come two men with rifles. One has an ‘assault weapon’, according to California law. Which is it?
----
Video: Pass 2
Audio: Voice: The law doesn’t say “scary looking” makes a rifle an ‘assault weapon’. It’s more complicated than that.
----
Video: Pass 3
Audio: Voice: To be sure, firearms experts must inspect each weapon. That means the crooks have to be arrested with the rifles, or leave the rifles behind at the crime scene.
----
Video: Pass 4
Audio: Voice: Some people want you to be scared of rifles, and use scary names like ‘assault weapon’ to make you scared. If experts didn’t inspect the rifles, the story shouldn’t say ‘assault weapons’, it should say ‘rifles’. That’s accurate.
----
Video: 4 freeze-frames of red-mask, 1 from each pass on top row, 4 freeze-frames of blue-mask, bottom row.
----
Graphic, ‘appearing typed text’
<centered> “All the rifles on the top row are really California ‘assault weapons’; all those on the bottom row are not.”
<newline><centered>“Could YOU tell as they walked by?”
<newline><centered>“Neither can anyone else.”
Audio: Typewriter strike sound as each letter appears.

Video: multiple cuts to newspaper articles, tv report snips saying ‘assault weapon’. Stop on 'assault weapon' line from original story.
Audio: When the paper or TV says someone used an ‘assault weapon’, call them: ask them how they know.

-------------------

One very important thing is to keep the language simple; I worked to get the voice-over text down to a Flesch-Kincaid grade level of 4.6 and a Flesch Reading Ease of 80.5.

BitterVoter
01-03-2009, 12:21 AM
So do we, or do we not, intend on banking on the Calguns name and reputation?

Also, a lot of great ideas! I hope that we can all follow through on this! We could become to California what the NRA is to the nation! Yay!!

gcrtkd
01-03-2009, 1:09 AM
That looks really good, Librarian. My only concern is that I don't think that most people (LEOs and many hunters and handgunners included) even realize that there is a black rifle movement in CA. How often do we still hear, "Oh, you can't own an AR in CA... that's a felony." This is because people don't understand that words such as "assault weapon" only have meaning through their definitions. Regarding the April article that you quote... I can't blame the average reader for figuring that any weapon that someone was assaulted with is an "assault weapon". Us and the law are pretty much the only ones who know that calling something an AW actually has a (well 3) specific legal definition(s). Correct or not (and we know it not to be), this is the perception of the general public. The numbers of legal AR/AK owners are growing, but it is still a tiny sliver of the population that even knows that this is an issue. I think that in order to have maximum effect, your audience for this spot is going to have to be somewhat engaged and have their pumps primed so that they are interested to find out more about why they're not as free as they thought they were.

My opinion is that we need to start in low gear, for the completely uninitiated and almost define the word "gun" or "pistol" or "rifle" (so to say) and then move on from there. The best way to impedance match (ummm... "mesh" for you non-EE's out there) with the every day experience of all of those average joes out there is to make this real to them. Make it about their rights, about their freedoms. Let's make this about their right and ability to protect themselves, their families, and their possessions in the event of catastrophe. Once we've set the hook, then we can move on to the accouterments such as SB23 OLL configurations, 50 cals, the safe handgun roster, mag capacity limits, etc., etc.. I never seem to have much luck with people with the "resistance to a tyrannical government" argument as the main reason behind the 2A, so our best bet may be to sprinkle this message in throughout the episodes so as to plant the seed of this thought with the viewers. Or this could be even another episode...

EPISODE 8?) The Tools of Liberty... A History Lesson
1) Ballot box, soap box, ammo box
2) Freedom from oppression: The Revolutionary War... attempted disarmament of the Colonies [link?]
3) Deacons For Defense and Justice
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deacons_for_Defense_and_Justice) (Though I really don't like using WiKis as references.)
4) The Battle of Athens (http://www.constitution.org/mil/tn/batathen.htm)
5) Other examples??
6) Intersperse with quotes such as "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." Thomas Jefferson
7) In this segment we must be very careful not to come off as crazy anti-.gov conspiracy theorists- mainly because we aren't, but also because it makes us easy to marginalize. America is a great and noble endeavor and I think our .gov is groovy. History has shown us however that all governments tend to tyranny on a long enough time scale... that's really all they can do.


Don't get me wrong, I'm all about giving someone a face full of freedom (is that as bad as it reads?), but I've been on the firearms/personal responsibility bandwagon for a long time, and I'm not the person we're trying to win over. Most of those that we are probably never owned or shot a rifle, let alone an AR/AK variant, so what does it matter to them that you or I can't have a, "shoulder thing that flips up"?

Or we could ask Chris Rock to do a "How to own an AR/AK in CA and Not Get Your *** Kicked" (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uj0mtxXEGE8) bit... is he available?

-gcrtkd

dirtyJ
01-03-2009, 2:27 PM
If I quoted all the great ideas in this thread so far, I'd probably hit the max allowable character limit in one post :). Seriously though, I'm down for helping with this, and I've got a decent amount of equipment that can help, in addition to my own meager skills. I may not know as much as a lot of people about the gun laws etc, here in CA, but give me a good script to work off of, and I can damn sure sound like it.

Smokeybehr
01-03-2009, 2:41 PM
4) Dress code.

Male gunnies should wear a white shirt, tie, and slacks appropriate for broadcast, and female gunnettes should wear smart business apparel when on air. Range gear, t-shirts, ball/boonie caps, jeans, cammies, BDU's, etc. should be avoided at all costs, unless a range segment is being highlighted.



Even out at the range, something dapper, like 5.11 Tactical type apparel, in a coordinating outfit would be better than jeans or cammies. The only ones wearing cammies should be active duty military when representing their respective branch.

A plain color ball cap with "CALGUNS.NET" on it should be acceptable as range wear, and of course all other range gear (eyes and ears) must apply.

Don't forget well groomed for both males and females. As the song says, "Long haired hippie freaks need not apply" guys; and ladies, no wild colors to your hair, unless you're Jem or Stephanie from LazyTown.


In a previous thread of this type, I've already said that I'd be willing to help out with voiceover work and working on the audio part of anything that you might want to do.

Librarian
01-03-2009, 5:01 PM
Looks like we could have several parallel tracks - if we could do most of them, that'd be content to keep the channel new and interesting.

I think I agree with this My opinion is that we need to start in low gear, for the completely uninitiated and almost define the word "gun" or "pistol" or "rifle" (so to say) and then move on from there. and we ought to call it 'introductory/technical' or some non-pejorative beginner-meaning word or phrase.

There are some interesting animated diagrams of firearms, though most are Flash and hosted on their creators' websites.

Then there would be 'introductory/political'; I think my newspaper-critical spot probably fits there. So would that piece where the young woman repels an intruder with a machine gun (Gun store ad, IIRC) -"Home Alone". "When seconds count, the police are only minutes away" kinds of things. "Prepare now - 10 days is a long time to wait when the rioters are on your block/when the looters come after the earthquake" things.

'Introductory/legal' would have things like 'yes, it's legal to own a pistol - here's how...' -- probably an on-location piece with an FFL who wants some free advertising :).

'Introductory/practical' should have 'how to clean a gun', 'how to choose your first gun', 'where can I get training' kinds of things.

And of course, there ought to be 'advanced' versions of those.

Advanced/technical would be things like those nice videos on how to field strip pistol-X - look at http://www.wonderhowto.com/weapons/guns-video/

ETA - that site is really pretty good - probably could leave most advanced/technical with them - but that is a great site for examples of what can be done.

DDT
01-03-2009, 6:01 PM
The only ones wearing cammies should be active duty military when representing their respective branch.

Or hunters in the field. No Mall Ninjas in these videos.

If you want to you are welcome to use the aforementioned wiki as a collaboration tool for planning which spots to shoot first, who has what responsibility and script development. I'll try to put together a bare bones template this weekend if you want to do that. It's easy enough to set up accounts and limit visibility/editing.

jacques
01-03-2009, 9:26 PM
How about a free newspaper called the 2ndf Ammendment. Distributed to coffee shops, restaurants, etc. etc. Much like many of the free papers that are around.

BitterVoter
01-03-2009, 10:54 PM
How about a free newspaper called the 2ndf Ammendment. Distributed to coffee shops, restaurants, etc. etc. Much like many of the free papers that are around.

Although a great idea, it would cost far more than what we are proposing.

BitterVoter
01-04-2009, 2:03 PM
I have developed a series of logos and names as an experiment.

Keep in mind that I am not using the CALGUNS.NET logo with the intent to steal or reduce the rights of the original owner, only to serve an illustrative purpose and at all times any works I make or create as a derivative of Calguns.net logo or name remain the property of CALGUNS.NET and/or the original owner.

http://claytonscott.info/photoalbum/albums/userpics/10001/logo_1.png

http://claytonscott.info/photoalbum/albums/userpics/10001/names.png

I can make any sort of variation of names, fonts, and such. I have the full Adobe Creative and over 4300 fonts. I am no master, but I can do some pretty decent work with Photoshop.

BitterVoter
01-04-2009, 2:34 PM
Also, in addition to a YouTube channel, it is also EXTREMELY cheap to start an internet radio station!

Actually, if we create our own content the cost itself would be almost nothing. Heck, I already have about all the software I would need...Then it is just a matter of getting a server and bandwidth to support the proper amount of simultaneous listeners...

But again, no one has answered what whether we wish to make it work with, but be "independent" from Calguns and therefore increase the "legitimacy" of the service, or if we intend to make it a mere extension...

DDT
01-04-2009, 3:20 PM
I have developed a series of logos and names as an experiment.

I am rather partial to CGN Media. Assuming the "powers that be" and those driving this initiative all want it to be under the CGN umbrella.

DDT
01-04-2009, 3:24 PM
WIKI is up.

I've put up a skeleton of a place to start organizing the video spots. I've assigned a couple people to some of the spots only to show that we should put someone in place to specifically drive each "episode." You don't have to run one if you aren't interested obviously.

Feel free to add or edit as you see fit. That is what a Wiki is for after all. I am looking at setting up accounts and limiting change privs and seeing if I can create sub-admins for the different pages.

check it out.
http://gunreporting.com/wiki/index.php?CGNCommercials (http://gunreporting.com/wiki/index.php?CGNCommercials)

gcrtkd
01-04-2009, 4:17 PM
I think we're witnessing the birth of something here...

GuyW
01-04-2009, 4:24 PM
Even out at the range, something dapper, like 5.11 Tactical type apparel, in a coordinating outfit would be better than jeans or cammies. The only ones wearing cammies should be active duty military when representing their respective branch.

A plain color ball cap with "CALGUNS.NET" on it should be acceptable as range wear, and of course all other range gear (eyes and ears) must apply.

Don't forget well groomed for both males and females. As the song says, "Long haired hippie freaks need not apply" guys; and ladies, no wild colors to your hair, unless you're Jem or Stephanie from LazyTown.


In a previous thread of this type, I've already said that I'd be willing to help out with voiceover work and working on the audio part of anything that you might want to do.

I follow your thought process on this - it has previously been the appropriate course of action.

However, I wonder if we would be missing some key demographics this way...

...maybe music or something at the beginning of the vid would weed out the non-targeted demographic, and thus be a form of "damage control" while still hitting an otherwise non-receptive demographic.

In general, this thread has several dynamite concepts that can push us forward in this miserable state....
.

nick
01-04-2009, 4:37 PM
Also, in addition to a YouTube channel, it is also EXTREMELY cheap to start an internet radio station!

Actually, if we create our own content the cost itself would be almost nothing. Heck, I already have about all the software I would need...Then it is just a matter of getting a server and bandwidth to support the proper amount of simultaneous listeners...


A hosted service can be used, somehting like Live365 or many others.

gcrtkd
01-04-2009, 4:58 PM
'Introductory/legal' would have things like 'yes, it's legal to own a pistol - here's how...' -- probably an on-location piece with an FFL who wants some free advertising :).

'Introductory/practical' should have 'how to clean a gun', 'how to choose your first gun', 'where can I get training' kinds of things.

And of course, there ought to be 'advanced' versions of those.

Advanced/technical would be things like those nice videos on how to field strip pistol-X - look at http://www.wonderhowto.com/weapons/guns-video/


Librarian--

I think this is where we need to have a clear vision statement as to the intents and goals of this media outlet. Is our goal to win people over by explaining how "common sense" gun laws are neither common nor sensical? (Well, "nonsensical" is a word, so I think "sensical" should be one too!) Or, is our goal to provide an encyclopedic video resource for firearms operation and maintenance? This could turn into both, and it is impossible to fully treat one topic without treating the other, but my personal inclination is to first focus on the former. Then again, maybe this is what you meant by "parallel tracks" and I'm just not getting it.

I took a look at the WiKi site and made a small practice edit... it worked just fine. Fine job, DDT! BTW, my handle is "gcrtkd"... no "kid"... I am an old fart with a receding hairline and an proceeding belly. I'm working on it!

More ideas...

EPISODE 9) "Common Sense" Gun Laws
1) How could they be "common" if they are different from state-to-state-to-state and local jurisdiction to local jurisdiction? Why do some people have different rights than others?
2) How could they make "sense" if they don't work?

EPISODE 10) Castle Doctrine (perhaps best combined with one of the law episodes)
1) What it is and how it works
2) What states have it


And to reiterate the questions that others have already asked... has this mediaidea gotten any buy in from the board of the Calguns Foundation? This is Ketryll's baby, so he and the board hold veto power and they get final edit approval if this goes forward.

Stormfeather
01-04-2009, 5:05 PM
"it wasn't as simple as wife kills husband with hatchet"

LOL

GuyW
01-04-2009, 5:06 PM
Vid #1: "The Police Have No Duty To Protect You".
.

BitterVoter
01-04-2009, 5:27 PM
I also kind of wonder, that if we are going to be doing some form of "News" that we should REALLY try to be unbiased. That is to say that IF a PRO-gun study comes out and is debunked that we have the character enough to say so..

I figure the more unbiased we can make the reporting the more credibility and influence the information will have. After all...we don't need to be preaching to the choir here like we already do n the board.

We have discusses here in detail all the possible ideas, I think consolidating them and putting them in order is ideal to determine the full and true path to construction.

Although this WIKI is a great start, we might want to see and consider having a properly developed website that allows everything to be integrated and managed properly from a central location instead of the piece-together that these free hosted scripts come with.

By knowing what services and information we will be providing we will be able to better determine and construct such a site.

As a matter of fact, Calguns has an IRC channel where we can actively chat instead of posting back and forth...anyone want to meet me there and discuss this?

Librarian
01-04-2009, 6:13 PM
Vid #1: "The Police Have No Duty To Protect You".
.

I agree. That's a fundamental thing that people really don't seem to get - but how do we do court cases visually?

My text-oriented brain only imagines things that are cop-bashing visuals, and that's entirely the wrong direction.

DDT, how tightly can you lock down the wiki? Can it be login-page, everything else behind login? I think strategery requires some confidentiality until a piece is published to the world.

I think this is where we need to have a clear vision statement as to the intents and goals of this media outlet. Is our goal to win people over by explaining how "common sense" gun laws are neither common nor sensical? (Well, "nonsensical" is a word, so I think "sensical" should be one too!)
I think this line is where we should start, gcrtkd. Our first goal ought to be 'hearts and minds'.

We do realize, I hope, that this is a long-term project? I'd say we started losing hearts and minds with GCA-68, and it got worse after 1981 (Reagan assassination attempt) so we have 40 years of damage to repair.

In some sense, more technical, help-a-fellow-gun-owner things could be sort of 'keep-alive' at first; they might be easier to do.

One we can adopt is this "4-Rules" video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4_TRYHYXgPE (another Oleg Volk production - see also THR) but this one seems to be from http://a-human-right.com/introduction.html

DDT
01-04-2009, 7:36 PM
I think it is most important to keep every message positive.

Rather than "The Police have no Duty to Protect You" I'd much rather see the idea couched as "Individuals have the duty to protect themselves and their families."

I know that the difference is rather nuanced at first glance but the first makes it sound anti-LEO where the latter is squarely giving someone; first an obligation and then the tools with which to carry out this obligation.

The same thinking goes into the "Common sense Gun Control" idea. Let's again, couch the idea in what rights we do have contrasted with those we have given to the state. Spelling out what our rights should be per the constitution rather than arguing the merits of individual laws will again be more productive in getting fence-sitters to see why further gun control is unnecessary. Touching on where these are regularly infringed (particularly contrasting Cal to most other states) is part of the equation but it shouldn't be put in a negative manner. Perhaps a title like "Constitutional Gun Rights Explained."

The same idea applies to the "Black Gun" video which I believe we need. Passing mention of the futility of CA's AWB and then very positive message about what we can own and how to ensure you are within the law.

DDT
01-04-2009, 7:41 PM
DDT, how tightly can you lock down the wiki? Can it be login-page, everything else behind login? I think strategery requires some confidentiality until a piece is published to the world.

My first wiki. I am trying to determine this right now. I will work on it further tonight. I am fairly confident that I can require login to read, that is a bare minimum acceptable solution. I think it would be best to leave it open after that.

I had originally wanted to set a moderator for each "episode page" but the more I look at the way a wiki works the more non-linear it becomes and the less useful that approach would be. for example, the "BlackGuns" page link defining AWs v. Cal legal "black guns" should be the same page for every episode so who would own it. My hope is that with proper moderating of who gets access to the whole wiki we won't have anyone screwing up the work of others. Plus, that's why previous pages are archived, we can roll back wiki-spam or wiki-vandals.

gcrtkd
01-04-2009, 7:52 PM
I also kind of wonder, that if we are going to be doing some form of "News" that we should REALLY try to be unbiased. That is to say that IF a PRO-gun study comes out and is debunked that we have the character enough to say so..

I figure the more unbiased we can make the reporting the more credibility and influence the information will have. After all...we don't need to be preaching to the choir here like we already do n the board.


Yes, we absolutely, 100% have to pay proper respect to data which does not support our pro-gun case. The easiest way for us to be marginalized and ignored is to be completely 1-sided. Someone smarter than me said that this is the first rule of debating: Concede that your opponent has some valid points, but then proceed to give facts and data that show why their small points really don't matter in the bigger picture. For example, we gunnies must concede that without guns there would be no deaths, injuries, accidents, robberies, etc. using guns. We mush go on to point out however, that all of these things would and do go on by other means (knifes, feet, fists, cars, etc.) when guns are completely outlawed. Here is where we can site actual real world laboratory failures of gun control in practice: England and Australia, for starters... and aren't there still shootings in Japan? And didn't that guy drive a truck into a bunch of people in Tokyo and stab, slash, and kill a whole bunch of folks?

We must be objective enough and confident in the logic behind our convictions that we can talk openly and honestly about both sides of this issue. In my opinion, the last thing that we want to be like is Fox news or MSNBC, constantly spout conservative or liberal talking points right out of the playbook. We want this to be THE go-to place for correct, verifiable, and unbiased information about firearms laws. We should be the place where reporters go to make sure that they've got their facts straight about "beretta service revolvers" and "assault weapons" before they put it in print. People can always argue with our opinions but it is difficult to argue with facts.

-gcrtkd

gcrtkd
01-04-2009, 8:03 PM
I agree. That's a fundamental thing that people really don't seem to get - but how do we do court cases visually?

My text-oriented brain only imagines things that are cop-bashing visuals, and that's entirely the wrong direction.



Right, right, and right... the last thing that we want is to be anti-anyone. In fact, when all is said and done, our message is pro-everyone. We need to focus on how allowing the people the tools of self protection reduces the workload for police. We should talk about the respect that we have (well, that I have at least) for police officers and the difficult and dirty job that they have to do and say, "Yes, we understand and we thank you for your service. We know that you simply cannot be everywhere all the time and that you are not our personal bodyguards. We know that the immediate protection of ourselves, our families, and our property is our own responsibility and we want to be able to have and carry the tools to do this. We understand that firearms in the hands of criminals are a terribly dangerous thing, but they will obtain firearms no matter what the law states. The police and society in general have nothing to fear from good and honest people who are armed. In short: Good guys carry guns, too!"

-gcrtkd

Librarian
01-04-2009, 8:06 PM
I think it is most important to keep every message positive.

Rather than "The Police have no Duty to Protect You" I'd much rather see the idea couched as "Individuals have the duty to protect themselves and their families."

I know that the difference is rather nuanced at first glance but the first makes it sound anti-LEO where the latter is squarely giving someone; first an obligation and then the tools with which to carry out this obligation.

Unfortunately, a whole bunch of people won't agree with the positive expression until they understand that the 'no duty' expression is true. It's human nature to push off difficult or unpleasant tasks to others, especially if it appears that such tasks are within their defined responsibilities. "The police will protect you" is really the most common response to gun owners, I think.

Allow me to be careful to say that I believe that police will absolutely try to protect people, and generally will feel really bad if they could have prevented something but did not. But getting non-LEO to understand limited resources, response times, inefficient 911 operations, unclear crime reports and priority calls is a longer effort.

Just for info, CA had ~78,000 sworn officers in 2007. If we allow 2 weeks vacation per year, 2% of those are on vacation at any one time, leaving 76,440. Assume 3 shifts, and about 25,480 would be on duty at any one time. California has around 36,000,000 people in 2007 - that's about 1,400 people per officer available on a shift.

California had 187,861 violent crimes in 2007, an average of 514 per day. Assume, incorrectly, even distribution across 24 hours, that's 171 per shift. You'd think 25,000 officers could handle 171 violent crimes. And who knows how many crimes are prevented or interrupted just by police presence? That's hard to quantify.

But it is the truth that police cannot be everywhere, cannot appear instantly when called, and may be busy with an equally important task when called. And if they can't get to you, well, police are a general public good, not an individual protection service.

That's what we have to get across before we can sell people on the idea that maybe they should plan to take some responsibility on themselves.

gcrtkd
01-04-2009, 8:30 PM
I think it is most important to keep every message positive.

Rather than "The Police have no Duty to Protect You" I'd much rather see the idea couched as "Individuals have the duty to protect themselves and their families."

I know that the difference is rather nuanced at first glance but the first makes it sound anti-LEO where the latter is squarely giving someone; first an obligation and then the tools with which to carry out this obligation.

Agreed. This is what I was being very careful to say in one of my earlier posts on this thread... that most LEOs that I know (and I know a lot) would take a bullet for someone who they just met. We know this, we understand this, we respect this, we are in awe of this... we also know however that the only person guaranteed to be there when a crime occurs is the victim, and most likely not a police officer. While we know that most officers would step in in a second, if no officer is nearby the scene of a violent crime, then what? The multiple decisions from the SCOTUS stating that the police are required only to protect society in general tells every one of us that in such an event, if we demand protection then we have no right to demand it of the police. (We need someone who is a better writer than me to fashion this message.)

You want to make strong ties with LEOs? Dedicate each episode at the beginning "To the rights of every American recognized by the Constitution and the Bill of Rights and to the men and women of the XYZ PD/SO who work every day to ensure us those rights." Want to get even crazier? Throw a some cash towards a scholarship fund for the children of fallen officers from the Calguns Foundation. Or set up a fund to buy quality retention holsters for rookie officers, rather than the junk they are generally issued. (Sorry guys, not trying to volunteer other people's money for things, just brainstorming.)

Also, when it comes to any article or statement in the media where someone cries about the availability of guns being the cause of crime, this needs to be countered quickly and succinctly with statements or a video about the person behind the trigger CHOOSING to shoot at someone/thing with it. Firearms are inanimate objects which only do things when a person makes a conscious decision to do something with it. (There are no accidents! A child shoots themselves with a parent's loaded firearm = the parent made a conscious decision not to unload and properly secure that firearm / An innocent bystander gets shot in a drive-by = the gunman took the decision to shoot and missed his target / A firearms enthusiast shoots himself with his Glock when preparing to clean it = He chose to neglect ensuring a clear weapon before beginning the disassembly process.)

Oh! 1 other thing... I request closed captioning for the videos and transcripts of "radio" broadcasts. I have a lot of deaf friends and there's no reason they shouldn't be fully included.

-gcrtkd

DDT
01-04-2009, 9:08 PM
Unfortunately, a whole bunch of people won't agree with the positive expression until they understand that the 'no duty' expression is true. It's human nature to push off difficult or unpleasant tasks to others, especially if it appears that such tasks are within their defined responsibilities. "The police will protect you" is really the most common response to gun owners, I think.

I think you really illustrated my point well and I'm sure we're on the same page. We definitely need to point out that there is no legal obligation by the police to protect the individual. But the other reasons that you so aptly quantified (as number people are wont to do :D ) are not related to their non-obligation but critical to the duty that we all have to provide for our own self protection.

Even something along the lines of "Every citizen has a duty to protect themselves, their families and their homes. The police can't be everywhere all the time and the law says that we can't expect them to protect us individually. This is why every American needs to fight to preserve their constitutional rights to keep and bear arms."

Would seem appropriate but to couch it in a way that emphasizes what we can and should do not what we can't have. As I said, I'm sure we're on the same page we just want to make sure we put things in ways to make the fence-sitters want to slip over to our side and not the side of "reasonable gun control"

BitterVoter
01-04-2009, 9:44 PM
Not to go to far off the conversation, but I don't believe that the 2nd Amendment has anything to do with self defense. The 2nd was about protecting the people from the government, not other citizens. I think that we should try to stay away from the "constitutional" argument and stick with pure reason backed with historical reference and fact.

The more we call out "2A" the more we run the risk of being marginalized. Why can't we use the argument that resounds with the most people as a "Human right"? The 2nd didn't cover the right to self protection, because the document was about our rights in relation to the government and not to ourselves and each other as people.

"The right to life" is a human right, so it should reason that the right to defend ones life ALSO be a human right. ...anti's may talk about guns not being a constitutional right, and then their argument is mute and who among them would deny us our human rights?

I know some might disagree, but I think that we should also consider the full argument we are trying to make as well.

GuyW
01-04-2009, 9:48 PM
Not to go to far off the conversation, but I don't believe that the 2nd Amendment has anything to do with self defense.

WRONG.

Read the Heller decision (as well as some decent history).




I think that we should try to stay away from the "constitutional" argument and stick with pure reason backed with historical reference and fact.


Um....yeah....



Why can't we use the argument that resounds with the most people as a "Human right"?

Undoubtedly, we may have to present some intellectually-watered-down arguments to catch the attention of the brain-dead, but "human rights" pap isn't one...



"The right to life" is a human right, so it should reason that the right to defend ones life ALSO be a human right.

"The right to life" does not resonate with many of our target audience...

How ironic that in a discussion about educating citizens about gunrights, we have a CalGunner
who doesn't understand the 2nd Amendment...

.

BitterVoter
01-04-2009, 10:01 PM
WRONG.

Read the Heller decision (as well as some decent history).


Um....yeah....

Undoubtedly, we may have to present some intellectually-watered-down arguments to catch the attention of the brain-dead, but "human rights" pap isn't one...

"The right to life" does not resonate with many of our target audience....

Well, we can argue about what the 2nd does/doesn't say, or we can focus on how we might pose the argument.

You don't think the human rights argument will work, but I tell you it works more often than you might think. I have won over far more anti's with this little bit of honey than I ever have with the 2A.

But, if it hurts your delicate sensibilities we can call it something other than human rights, we can call it a basic right...a God given right...or maybe hysteria...whatever gets the argument across.

*SAID WITH THE INTENTION TO ADD LEVITY, NOT AS A PERSONAL ATTACK.

HunterJim
01-05-2009, 10:30 AM
All the drama over how to do this idea reminds me of the Chinese proverb the excellent is the enemy of the good.

The way to do a viral video channel is just do it, then go with what works and drop the rest.

I just put a check in the mail to the Calguns Foundation to make it so.

jim dodd

Librarian
01-06-2009, 4:55 PM
Just got called and told I can pick up a book on writing for digital media (what do you expect from "Librarian"? ;) ) from the library.

To a large extent I agree with "the excellent is the enemy of the good." OTOH, with a long term project a bit more planning and coordination may well change 'up but lousy' to 'good'.

My former background was software development and product releases; I experienced the loss of 'good will' from established customers when companies released products that were buggy, and my job was to sell to management the idea that we couldn't afford to do that MORE than we couldn't afford the lost opportunity cost of an early release and those sales. Bad rap from our friends didn't seem to 'grow the market', and wasted resources in Tech Support that should have been invested before release.

In that spirit, we're sort of trying to get 'new customers' here, for a product they don't know they need. Offering them a buggy first release won't hook them on the product, but offering a good, simple first look might.

BitterVoter
01-06-2009, 10:55 PM
To follow up on what Librarian is saying, many of us may have fundamental differences in our overall goal, the sacrifices we are all willing to make and the compromises we can live with. This will inevitably lead to arguments and disagreements.

The idea is to learn from them and continue instead of focusing on the differences. The more we discuss the more we can find the common ground and goal and possibly work to a presentable product.

I feel that my suggestion might have been a bad idea, but it was the manner in which and the tone in which, and essentially personally attacking me as if I don't understand the 2A. The issue at hand is that many have different opinions and interpretations of what it is supposed to mean and that has been to the fail of the gun-rights movement as a whole. If we can't get past it here how can we expect someone to buy into our product?

It may be the disagreement that separates us but what we can agree on can be just as strong or even stronger.

Kestryll
01-07-2009, 12:36 AM
And to reiterate the questions that others have already asked... has this mediaidea gotten any buy in from the board of the Calguns Foundation? This is Ketryll's baby, so he and the board hold veto power and they get final edit approval if this goes forward.

Hi, I figure I ought pop in and say something here. ;)

Librarian has PM'ed me about this and I am talking with him about a few things on it. I like the idea and educating people is NEVER a bad thing.

The main point to me is to verify that this is not going to conflict with the non-profit status of the Foundation, I'm checking on that now.

Librarian
01-08-2009, 2:30 PM
In this thread so far we've accumulated some really good ideas and we have some People Involved (extra contributions noted):

Librarian

gcrtkd

BitterVoter - I have most of the equipment that would be necessary already!

thegratenate

yellowfin2

AngelDecoys

nick

DDT - WIKI for collaboration

Harrison_Bergeron

fullrearview

dirtyJ -I've done broadcasting for over 5 years now, both as a voice behind the mic, and as video production, and for me, the hardest part was actually writing the few things that had to be written beforehand. I'd love to help, got a decent amount of free time, so when I'm not actually working, I can do some video editing, voice overs, even in front of the camera work as well.

Smokeybehr - I've already said that I'd be willing to help out with voiceover work and working on the audio part of anything that you might want to do.

GuyW

HunterJim

And I put up a recruiting post in the Ladies Forum,
Want to be a (web) TV star? (http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=143384)

which produced two more participants

bdsmchs

Lucky Scott - Actually, we both have a lot of experience doing a web TV show. We currently do one about motorsports called Speed Scene Live. We do a live show every tuesday night, and you can see it anytime by going to the archives page of www.SpeedSceneRacing.com
We can be seen on the show and we have learned alot over the years doing the net TV deal.

Looks like our big experience resources are BitterVoter, dirtyj and Lucky Scott (apologies if I don't have the experience to recognize what others have said). I believe that suggests our technical team leads among the participants so far.

So, while waiting for the CGF folks to consider things, let us make a couple of decisions here.

1) YouTube channel or our own site?

I picked on YouTube for the reasons noted in the opening posts: it's free, and it's very popular, and the users are in our hoped-for demographic: young, tech-savvy (mostly), and somewhat open-minded.

With our own site, we gain control but incur costs, both the whole set of bandwidth and administrative things, plus the effort to publicize. We still could post things to YouTube as part of the publicity - I think the model of the HowTo (http://www.wonderhowto.com/weapons/guns-video/) site, staying focused on guns, might be good.

But lets list some pros and cons, and see where we think we should be at this point in the project.

2) Mission statement

(I really am too corporatized, I guess :eek:)

Biz-speak: core competencies, goals, objectives all are directed by the mission.

I think our mission is to stop electing gun grabbers. But that's a little crude; more precisely, I think we want to create a political environment where emotional appeals on guns no longer work, because the voters Know Better.

Open for discussion.....

BitterVoter
01-08-2009, 2:39 PM
In this thread so far we've accumulated some really good ideas and we have some People Involved (extra contributions noted):

BitterVoter - I have most of the equipment that would be necessary already!

1) YouTube channel or our own site?

I picked on YouTube for the reasons noted in the opening posts: it's free, and it's very popular, and the users are in our hoped-for demographic: young, tech-savvy (mostly), and somewhat open-minded.

With our own site, we gain control but incur costs, both the whole set of bandwidth and administrative things, plus the effort to publicize. We still could post things to YouTube as part of the publicity - I think the model of the HowTo (http://www.wonderhowto.com/weapons/guns-video/) site, staying focused on guns, might be good.

But lets list some pros and cons, and see where we think we should be at this point in the project.

2) Mission statement

(I really am too corporatized, I guess :eek:)

Biz-speak: core competencies, goals, objectives all are directed by the mission.

I think our mission is to stop electing gun grabbers. But that's a little crude; more precisely, I think we want to create a political environment where emotional appeals on guns no longer work, because the voters Know Better.

Open for discussion.....

Ok, for me, I do have the basic equipment, video recorder, lights, video editing programs. It isn't all grade-A stuff, but enough to put on adequate video.

Now, I believe we should both a YouTube and a website. On YouTube you can communicate a lot, but having your own website dramatically increases the visibility of your content to search engines and allows for more options and control.

I am with you in also creating a mission statement. Without a guided goal you can't measure or achieve your success.

Lucky Scott
01-08-2009, 3:38 PM
I have a lot of experience in this area. I currently do a weekly net TV show about Motorsports. Drag racing, Off road, that kind of thing.
We have a website, and do a live show every tuesday night, then we archive the shows so that they are available anytime to watch.
Its all free and you dont even have to register to be able to watch a show, just click and a media player pops up with the show.
I would be happy to help out, if interested. However, you do need to get some revenue together as it is not expensive to do something like this, but it is also not free.
If you want to see what I do and see an example of what can be done, check out our show at www.SpeedSceneRacing.com
The show is called Speed Scene Live and it is a one hour, weekly, Live show.

Moderator, I hope it is not out of line to post the web address. If it is, please delete and accept my apoligies. Speed Scene Live TV is not a gun related show and I am just trying to show an example of what can be done on the net.

RRangel
01-08-2009, 10:44 PM
Did someone say "going around the media"? My, that sounds like a good idea. What about promoting our own gun brand of media?

Librarian
01-10-2009, 1:11 PM
Over at THR (http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=418736), member Zundfolge has a nice description of how anti-gun folks seem to divide.
(used with permission)
I've posted my 4 basic classifications of antis before.


The Duped: The majority of people who say they support gun control or vote for anti-gun candidates ... these people have bought the lies told by the gun control movement. They honestly believe that gun control would make us safer. There is hope to turn these people to the truth as they are just lied too and not committed to believing the lies because of other personal reasons like groups 2 & 3 (and they are by far the largest group).
The Partisans: They are Democrats/liberals/progressives ... and their party says "guns are bad"...or more to the point "those who support gun rights are our enemy" so they support gun control and vote for anti gun candidates. These people are pretty much unreachable unless Republicans became pro gun control. Most could care less one way or the other whether guns are legal, illegal, restricted, or whatever (although most are partially duped and I'm sure there are plenty Hoplolphobes among them too).
The Hopolophobes: just simply people with an irrational fear of guns ... they are unreachable. Therapy for their phobia is required. (this is a somewhat small group ... smaller than 1 and 2).
The Power Seekers: These are the Schumers and Feinsteins ... these are the leaders of the movement who know guns aren't bad but know they can't implement their other diabolical plans against us as long as we're armed (this is actually a very small group ... even most anti-gun politicians are just Partisans, Dupes and/or Hopolophobes, only a very select few are trying to enslave us).


I think our video-site purpose should be trying to change the Duped so the Power Seekers don't get elected, and the Partisans have no position to blindly support.

BitterVoter
01-11-2009, 11:21 PM
I am working with a website to piece together allowing media (video) section, a wiki, and much more. It is pretty customizable.

I am not exactly sure how to construct the wiki, but I can lock it.

http://www.ocrights.org

I began it as an OC sight, but what I learn and implement here we can use to achieve our goals here.

I am not trying to step on the other guys site, I just figured what we want to do here is kind of what I wanted to do there except not as focused as my group.

DDT
01-11-2009, 11:26 PM
thanks bitter,

My site is hosted at hostgator and I have not been able to get my wiki locked so only registered users can view. I am still looking into it but it doesn't look promising.

BitterVoter
01-12-2009, 1:16 AM
thanks bitter,

My site is hosted at hostgator and I have not been able to get my wiki locked so only registered users can view. I am still looking into it but it doesn't look promising.

Oh, I wasn't trying to close it to view, but I can.

I will allow people to register, but I will manually authorize. Otherwise it wouldn't really be private.

PM me once you have and whom you are on this site so that I can control.

Smokeybehr
01-12-2009, 12:44 PM
Another issue that we need to consider is where we're going to do this. Since we've got members scattered all over the state that are willing to help, we need to find somewhere that we can all get to easily to produce these videos.

I'd like to throw in the Fresno Rifle and Pistol Club as a venue for production, since it's centrally located between LA and SF, and already has a reputation for being legally proactive. There's also The Range, which is an indoor facility, and if you've seen the videos for Dragon Skin from Pinnacle Armor, you've seen their "LE only" range.

For a nice, grassy pistol/shotgun only range, I'm sure that we could rent the Fresno County Peace Officers' Association range, which is probably the best as far as access is concerned, being just off the freeway (SR99) and is really pretty. I can put you in touch with their rangemaster, and you can hash out the rental fees for the days that production will happen.

BitterVoter
01-12-2009, 1:40 PM
Although a great idea, I am not sure we are there yet.

I am thinking that we need to get together and collaborate more on what exactly we want and how we will achieve it before we start producing videos.

I will try to get a chat system started so that we can actively discuss.

Another issue that we need to consider is where we're going to do this. Since we've got members scattered all over the state that are willing to help, we need to find somewhere that we can all get to easily to produce these videos.

I'd like to throw in the Fresno Rifle and Pistol Club as a venue for production, since it's centrally located between LA and SF, and already has a reputation for being legally proactive. There's also The Range, which is an indoor facility, and if you've seen the videos for Dragon Skin from Pinnacle Armor, you've seen their "LE only" range.

For a nice, grassy pistol/shotgun only range, I'm sure that we could rent the Fresno County Peace Officers' Association range, which is probably the best as far as access is concerned, being just off the freeway (SR99) and is really pretty. I can put you in touch with their rangemaster, and you can hash out the rental fees for the days that production will happen.

Librarian
01-15-2009, 11:27 PM
Update: hoffmang says the use of Calguns name is a 'go' - no problems with the Foundation and 501(c)(3) tax status. Presuming no contrary instruction from Kestryll, it's about time to launch this puppy.

So, can we get something up in time to copy the Nordyke video as our opening?

Frankly, if one leaves anything like a website design to -me- it'll be dull and lifeless, so someone with a visual intelligence quotient above 25 ought to guide our 'impression'.

BitterVoter
01-16-2009, 12:08 AM
So then what we need to do is figure out a name and where it will be hosted.

Hosting can be inexpensive, but often you get what you pay for. The hosting for OCRights cost me a whopping $12/year $36 for unlimited bandwidth.

Librarian
01-16-2009, 6:39 PM
Another thought: can we animate a Google Map?

In a couple of threads some of us have plotted 1000' radius circles around schools. As a Google Earth thing, those circles are distinct 'objects' for .kml, and they can all be turned off then turned on one at a time; might be able to save each separate state as an image and play them in series. Now that I think about it, iMovie will do that ....

I think it would be impressive to put up a map of LA, San Jose, a couple other places, and overlay a dozen or twenty red circles showing some of the limitations of UOC.

Oh yes - I think we need a piece on legal UOC, both in the 'be careful' line and in the 'yeah, it's legal - quit calling the cops' line.

Theseus
01-16-2009, 8:25 PM
I have distinct visions of many small people running from a 50 ft tall woman UOC....And then one lone person says..."What? It's legal!"

Another thought: can we animate a Google Map?

In a couple of threads some of us have plotted 1000' radius circles around schools. As a Google Earth thing, those circles are distinct 'objects' for .kml, and they can all be turned off then turned on one at a time; might be able to save each separate state as an image and play them in series. Now that I think about it, iMovie will do that ....

I think it would be impressive to put up a map of LA, San Jose, a couple other places, and overlay a dozen or twenty red circles showing some of the limitations of UOC.

Oh yes - I think we need a piece on legal UOC, both in the 'be careful' line and in the 'yeah, it's legal - quit calling the cops' line.

As for the Google map thing...I think it is possible. I believe the wiki that is being used for that site, the MediaWiki allowes Google Maps plugins. Using a code similar to that of a "find a store" search we can even make it interactive. . . I think.

GuyW
01-16-2009, 10:03 PM
Over at THR (http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=418736), member Zundfolge has a nice description of how anti-gun folks seem to divide.

They divide right down the middle, if your sword is sharp enough, heavy enough, and your aim is true...
.

gcrtkd
01-21-2009, 11:59 PM
Now this is how you do it... see the graphics up front? The background music? All those orange "Guns Save Lives" stickers?

VCDL Lobby Day Video (http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum54/20929.html)

-gcrtkd

gcrtkd
01-22-2009, 12:03 AM
Another thought: can we animate a Google Map?

In a couple of threads some of us have plotted 1000' radius circles around schools. As a Google Earth thing, those circles are distinct 'objects' for .kml, and they can all be turned off then turned on one at a time; might be able to save each separate state as an image and play them in series. Now that I think about it, iMovie will do that ....

I think it would be impressive to put up a map of LA, San Jose, a couple other places, and overlay a dozen or twenty red circles showing some of the limitations of UOC.

Oh yes - I think we need a piece on legal UOC, both in the 'be careful' line and in the 'yeah, it's legal - quit calling the cops' line.


See, what you need is a person with a degree in GIS (global information science... think cartography, natural resource management, x-ft radii around playgrounds and schools for bars/alcohol), or someone who is 2A friendly who wants a GIS project that can help us out. Somewhere in the Matrix (the county assessor's office?), the metadata must exist to be overlaid on a google map to do just such a thing for UOC.


---gcrtkd

cousinkix1953
01-22-2009, 12:25 AM
I recently sent a note to Frank Sommervile on KTVU regarding the COLT H-Bar sporters being stolen from police cars. He seemed to think that these were standard AR-15s which COLT dhasn't sold to the public since 1989...

Librarian
01-22-2009, 1:28 AM
Now this is how you do it... see the graphics up front? The background music? All those orange "Guns Save Lives" stickers?

VCDL Lobby Day Video (http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum54/20929.html)

-gcrtkd
That was a good event.

I do like their opening, the tech stuff and the supplementary stuff (music etc).

I think (at 14 minutes) it's a bit long for our expected audience, at first. (Then again, Nordyke arguments were ~45 minutes. It All Depends :) )

There's also an ABC-Nightline segment on a VCDL OC barbeque that was a nice event with very well-spoken representatives. Pros, of course on the tech side.

gcrtkd
01-22-2009, 2:07 AM
That was a good event.

I do like their opening, the tech stuff and the supplementary stuff (music etc).

I think (at 14 minutes) it's a bit long for our expected audience, at first. (Then again, Nordyke arguments were ~45 minutes. It All Depends :) )

There's also an ABC-Nightline segment on a VCDL OC barbeque that was a nice event with very well-spoken representatives. Pros, of course on the tech side.


Sorry, you're right. Our immediate goal is different than what VCDL is showing in their video. They are many years ahead of us out there in terms of gun rights. We should keep CalGuns' vids shorter and sweeter with our goals in mind. We can look to others for inspiration though...

-gcrtkd

Librarian
01-22-2009, 9:46 AM
Finally got around to reading the book on video/film I checked out. (S. Martin Sheldon. Communicating Ideas with Film, Video and Multimedia)

Some of you modern folks may find this obvious, but parts are real revelations to me. 'Course, I was surprised when movies started talking....

Notes:

Need to establish
who is the target audience
what are the target audience's 'action items'? What does the producer expect the audience to do?

Need statement of objectives: intent, audience, action

Write statement of overall intent - to train, to inform, to persuade

Narrow audience

Action clause - to work for, to support, to think, to feel

Need to identify demographic, socioeconomic, psychological qualities of audience - several versions of same info may be needed for different audiences. (We need to take this aspect to private discussion.)

Write/film for the primary audience (e. g. if it's for newbies, don't add the detail the experienced folks need and expect; sometimes we'll have to accept imprecision or incompleteness)

Describe three or four "essential elements of information" - main points, primary concepts. More than four is too ambitious for one 'show';

Shelton talks about the 'communications surround'; we already know that most often our videos will be viewed by one, possibly two people, at a computer; the other support requirements for screening can be pretty much ignored. But that means that our audience is free to start, stop whenever they want - so pieces need a good hook, and must fit the 'internet attention span'.

A caution for people like me: "Any writer who believes that words really are preeminent in information motion-media communication doesn't belong in the profession."

Further, "about 70 percent of the information ... ought to be in the visuals and only 30 percent in the commentary. Such a 70/30 ratio bodes well for long-term audience retention of our messages."

"Don't write a script, draw a storyboard."

General descriptions of things to avoid, because they usually come across as artificial and 'stilted':
"man on the street"
"newscast"
"interview"
"old guy talking to young guy"
"talking head"
"parody"
"real-life dramatization"
"slice of life"

So, have we picked a name yet? Something with "Calguns" and "Video" in it?

"Good information for California residents" or something, as a tag line.

Three obvious tracks:

info for complete newbies, down to folks who've never seen a gun and don't know they're legal;
Things like
"Hey, California: Guns are Legal!"
"Guns are pretty common - you may not want one yourself, but here's how to safely handle and unload one"
"How to buy a gun in California"

California and Federal legislative/judicial news (we may have to co-opt a lawyer for that, sometimes - I wonder where I've just met some :) );

technical gun stuff, like
http://videos.howstuffworks.com/science/firearms-videos.htm and http://www.wonderhowto.com/weapons/guns-video/ for examples, and http://www.m1911.org/loader.swf and http://www.genitron.com/glock23/intglock.html


Don't know how to do these visually....
"Where to get basic/advanced/specialized firearms training in California" (by the time someone wants to go to Gunsite or whatever, they'll hardly need us.)
"Where to shoot in California" -- Group Project! Here's a good example: http://www.dragunov.net/bay_area_ranges.htm. Here's another: http://www.bayprofs.org/Places_to_Shoot.html

We may need to be or recommend a link concentrator.

Yankee Clipper
01-22-2009, 11:42 AM
Great concept!
Going forward, because this could become very high profile, any presentation that can be accessed by unwashed anti-gunners should have any content deleted that could be used against us. We don’t want to get any of our appendages into the well known wringer because we gave them both legal and propaganda material to use against us.
With the IT and video resources we have available to us here in this state, this can become a culture changing enterprise.
Though I’ve spent some time in front of the video camera, I rather volunteer my time to work behind the scenes here in the South. PM me if I can be of help to get this off the ground.

Theseus
01-22-2009, 1:16 PM
I will setup OCRights.org so that we can collaborate under secrecy. I have already made a chat, will make a forums, even use teamspeak or anything we need to effectively collaborate in secrecy.

For those interested in helping or feeling you have something to contribute, please register on that site and PM me here so that I can ensure security.

To get this fully started I would like to schedule a specific time/date for us to discuss things like the name, possible contributions and individual areas of responsibility.

cousinkix1953
01-22-2009, 10:44 PM
I will setup OCRights.org so that we can collaborate under secrecy. I have already made a chat, will make a forums, even use teamspeak or anything we need to effectively collaborate in secrecy.

For those interested in helping or feeling you have something to contribute, please register on that site and PM me here so that I can ensure security.

To get this fully started I would like to schedule a specific time/date for us to discuss things like the name, possible contributions and individual areas of responsibility.

There is new BlackBerry coming in the future. Everything will be scrambled and snoop proof, just like police radios used by a paranoid OC sheriff who spies on the supervisors. You will be able to communicate in secrecy just like Big Sister Hutchens.

The anti-gun Messiah is getting one too...

Librarian
01-22-2009, 11:21 PM
I signed up.

Forums work - all of 2 threads, but hey ....

Theseus
01-23-2009, 12:02 AM
I signed up.

Forums work - all of 2 threads, but hey ....

You Librarian have the power to add more as you see fit.

Certain other people are going to be given those rights as well, but can only be trusted to a select few, I am sure you can understand.

DDT
01-23-2009, 1:25 PM
signed up. username the same

Theseus
01-23-2009, 2:21 PM
I have also added a "mobile" program that displays the website in an appropriate manner if it detects the person is on a mobile phone.

People can also add news items to their social networking sites such as Facebook and MySpace.

I have added RSS functions, ShoutCast internet radio software, and have internet radio broadcast software, media section where we can include YouTube videos as we produce them. There is a News Letter option so we can send them via e-mail.

There is also a fully functioning event callendar.

I can't think of much more to add, but if we need them...

Kestryll
01-23-2009, 2:39 PM
Update: hoffmang says the use of Calguns name is a 'go' - no problems with the Foundation and 501(c)(3) tax status. Presuming no contrary instruction from Kestryll, it's about time to launch this puppy.

So, can we get something up in time to copy the Nordyke video as our opening?

Frankly, if one leaves anything like a website design to -me- it'll be dull and lifeless, so someone with a visual intelligence quotient above 25 ought to guide our 'impression'.

No objection from me, just a comment.
If you do use the Calguns name I'd like to see at least one Staff member or Board member along with Librarian or his chosen surrogate prescreen the videos.

Not that there is an issue of mistrust but we all get caught in the moment sometimes and might not catch something.


ETA:Names...
Calguns Video News Network?
KGUN?
Shootin' Videos, Shootin' Guns? ;)

Major kudos to those taking point on this and those helping, this is the kind of activism and forward motion we need!

Theseus
01-26-2009, 1:33 PM
BTT

Librarian
01-31-2009, 4:24 PM
So, can we get some more participation here?

Some folks have gone ahead and registered at http://www.ocrights.org/
so we can work up the details of what to produce in a little bit of privacy - mostly to keep the struggling and start-up mistakes off the front page, but also so we can put together finished products and make those public when ready.

Theseus
01-31-2009, 4:29 PM
I second that. We have tons of responders here. Do you all need a personal invitation?

Theseus
02-09-2009, 9:03 PM
Um....This project has stalled. If I don't get any responses to assist this then I will destroy our work up until now.

I don't mean to press, but it just seems that we started strong with ideas and stopped at action. . . This irritates me. Finish what you start my dad always said...That's the same reason he has finished 3 marriages already!!! Haha.

nick
02-09-2009, 9:15 PM
Patience is a virtue :)

Theseus
02-09-2009, 9:31 PM
Yeah, but virtue is often wasted...

:p

nick
02-09-2009, 9:51 PM
Can you waste something you don't have? :p

Macadelic4
03-16-2009, 1:21 AM
Bumping this thread for everyone's attention.