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View Full Version : Permananece of non-semi auto


Harrison_Bergeron
12-30-2008, 5:20 PM
I have read people whose I opinion I trust say that simply removing the gas piston or other part of a semi rifle to make it a non semi-auto is not good enough, that that would just make the gun a broken AW.

Is there some kind of case law or code to support this stance?

Would making a gas piston replacement stub specifically for the purpose of converting a semi to a bolt action be sufficient?

If non of the above: How is it that removing a pistol grip without making the removal permanent is legal, but removing the gas piston is not? Isn't screwing on a PG way easier than replacing the pin in a gas piston?

adamsreeftank
12-30-2008, 6:34 PM
Most people here would now agree that removing the gas tube is sufficient. One of the resident smart people posted some legal backing for that belief.

It might help if you gave more information on the source of your "information".

jacques
12-30-2008, 6:39 PM
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=136568

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=86627

These are good reads for that subject plus more.

bwiese
12-30-2008, 7:02 PM
I have read people whose I opinion I trust say that simply removing the gas piston or
other part of a semi rifle to make it a non semi-auto is not good enough, that that
would just make the gun a broken AW.

Is there some kind of case law or code to support this stance?

Would making a gas piston replacement stub specifically for the purpose of converting a semi to a bolt action be sufficient?

If non of the above: How is it that removing a pistol grip without making the removal permanent is legal,
but removing the gas piston is not? Isn't screwing on a PG way easier than replacing the pin in a gas piston?


Actually, removal of the gas piston (and necessarily closing of gas port - you don't want a jet of hot gas spewing out!) is sufficient to render nonsemiauto status to the firearm.

I believe you may have been confusing this issue with the "broken AW" situation in an LA case I wrote of awhile back. It (approximately) involved an FAL clone (Imbel?) rifle, whose bolt carrier assembly was removed. (There was some other drama about the case, too, and the guy ended up going down for it.) Such a rifle just missing the bolt carrier is most likely regarded as a broken AW - as contrasted with the above-mentioned specific removal/reconfiguration of feature(s) triggering generic AW status.

The clear and documented lack of constructive possession for AWs supports the assertion that a non-semiauto OLL can't be regarded as a non-AW even when all evil features (pistol grip, flash hider, folding stock, etc.) are attached. One would have to take affirmative steps and a supply of new part(s) to be installed on this manually-cycled rifle to recover the semiauto functionality and thus bring the rifle into illegal AW status. In this regard, it's akin to a MonsterMan-equipped AR: it requires introduction/replacement of a part with a separate one to become an AW. By contrast, that "broken FAL" with missing bolt carrier still had all 12276.1PC characteristic features, the semiauto hardware, and was chambered for a centerfire round. The missing bolt carrier was not deterministic of its semauto vs. manual-cycled configuration.

Just as there's no 'permanence' required for attachment (or removal) of any AW-related feature nor 'permanence' on attachment of a 10rd fixed magazine, there's similarly no permanence required of the rendering of manually-cycled nonsemiauto status. [The only 'permanence' required in relation to CA AW laws is that of hicap magazines reduced to 10rd capacity when used in a fixed mag configuration.]

However, just as it's not that wise to drive with a featureless/gripless FAL clone in one's back seat with a separated pistol grip sitting next to it, it's similarly unwise to drive around with that pistonless FAL clone and a gas piston in one's shirt pocket.

One should also not rely on use a manually-adjusted device - such as a gas-port or grenade launcher valve - to just shut off gas flow without removal of the gas piston. While this renders the rifle, when set appropriately, into manual-cycled status, the rifle is certainly a semauto with a twist of a knob: the rifle can easly be said to be semiauto with a manual mode.

In the case of an AR upper, removal of the gas tube - plus itsw replacement by a ~1/2" stub of gas tube pinned upside down in the gas block as a port block - will certainly suffice to render nonsemiauto status.

Blowback-operated pistol-caliber semiauto carbines which do not rely on gas flow and which use the mass of a simple, heavy bolt carrier (as a slow-moving load in place of locking/unlocking system) would be unlikely to be modifiable into nonsemiauto status given these systems' simplicity. (I suppose you could put a lead slug in the back of a bolt carrier, but I'd simply shy away from attempting a nonsemauto rendering of pistol-caliber blowback carbines.)

Harrison_Bergeron
12-30-2008, 7:21 PM
Thanks for the help, Bweise was correct, my lack of knowledge regarding the technical differences between a FAL and AK was what caused my lack of understanding.

bwiese
12-30-2008, 7:33 PM
Thanks for the help, Bweise was correct, my lack of knowledge regarding the technical differences between a FAL and AK was what caused my lack of understanding.

If you want a manually-cycled AK, just go get one of those pump action PAR-1s sold by Atlantic Firearms.

Harrison_Bergeron
12-30-2008, 8:03 PM
I want to have the option of changing the configuration like the MMG and bullet button folks do. The Par-1 doesn't have a hole drilled in the barrel for the gas block. Plus, I want to build it myself.