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View Full Version : Gun grabbing is a by-product of socialism, yes?


MP301
12-29-2008, 8:42 PM
Im thinking that if this article from Investors Business Daily is accurate, maybe some folks really didnt look at the big picture when they voted..... And maybe BHO is a little more on the scary side then previously thought?


http://www.ibdeditorial.com/IBDArticles.aspx?id=302137342405551

nobody_special
12-29-2008, 9:06 PM
Gun grabbinging is a byproduct of authoritarianism; both ultra-left (socialist/communist) and ultra-right (fascist) governments have a history of it.

Aleksei Vasiliev
12-29-2008, 9:11 PM
I prefer the 2D graph of political beliefs, not the 1D line (left-right). See: http://www.politicalcompass.org/analysis2
Any strongly Authoritarian government will try to grab guns.

RRangel
12-29-2008, 9:29 PM
Obama's background layed out so well in the article is not a surprise to the informed. Unfortunately those who voted for him think they live in a world of no consequence. What harm can a little "economic justice" do?

Crazed_SS
12-29-2008, 9:30 PM
Gun grabbinging is a byproduct of authoritarianism; both ultra-left (socialist/communist) and ultra-right (fascist) governments have a history of it.

Pretty much.. I dont know why everyone always equates socialism and gun-grabbing.

Heh.. I was listening to Rage the other day and a few lines stuck in my head:

"I grip the canon like Fanon and pass the shells to my classmates"
"The ballot's dead so bullets what I get"
"The vulture tried to steal your name but now you got a gun, this is for the people of the sun"

Im thinking, "See, these socialists are all about guns"

mblat
12-29-2008, 10:40 PM
Pretty much.. I dont know why everyone always equates socialism and gun-grabbing.


Easy. Throughout the history left (socialism) managed to produced much more scarier regimes than right. And let's not talk about Nazi's as right wingers. NSDAP = National Socialist German Workers' Party. So Hitler was socialist by name and his economic policies would make Marx proud. So authoritarianism in the mind of most managed equates to socialism simply because well...... There was no truly horrific rigth wing regime in the recent memory, at least when you compare them to the regimes created by self-proclaimed socialists.
So while general statement that any authoritarian regime will try to grab your guns is correct , the only regimes that did and were bad enough to deserve anybody's close attention belonged to left side of the spectrum.
Socialists in have killed probably 100 times more people than rigth wingers.
So gun grabbers = socialists. Just because somebody else can also be gun grabbers doesn't make this statement incorrect.

rayra
12-29-2008, 11:24 PM
Im thinking that if this article from Investors Business Daily is accurate, maybe some folks really didnt look at the big picture when they voted..... And maybe BHO is a little more on the scary side then previously thought?


http://www.ibdeditorial.com/IBDArticles.aspx?id=302137342405551

You sir are a master of understatement.

eta - and I want some of what Crazed_SS is smoking.

otalps
12-30-2008, 1:52 AM
Pretty much.. I dont know why everyone always equates socialism and gun-grabbing.

Heh.. I was listening to Rage the other day and a few lines stuck in my head:

"I grip the canon like Fanon and pass the shells to my classmates"
"The ballot's dead so bullets what I get"
"The vulture tried to steal your name but now you got a gun, this is for the people of the sun"

Im thinking, "See, these socialists are all about guns"

I agree, socialists are all about guns. I just don't see how Zach de la Rocha would end up with one in a real socialist revolution. Che and all of his other idols woulda gunned down his dumb ***.

tyrist
12-30-2008, 12:32 PM
I agree, socialists are all about guns. I just don't see how Zach de la Rocha would end up with one in a real socialist revolution. Che and all of his other idols woulda gunned down his dumb ***.

They are all about guns until they are in power....then they kill all the revolutionaries and disarm the rest. Don't want another socialist uprising.

nobody_special
12-30-2008, 1:07 PM
And let's not talk about Nazi's as right wingers. NSDAP = National Socialist German Workers' Party. So Hitler was socialist by name and his economic policies would make Marx proud.
That's not really true; Hitler's economic policies were not socialist in the usual sense. The Political Compass (http://www.politicalcompass.org/analysis2) rates Hitler as extremely authoritarian, and slightly right of center economically. (Granted, it lists Obama as slightly right of center too, which is bizarre... I think Obama should be further left.)

There are striking similarities between fascist and socialist economic policies; in both, the government meddles with industry & economy. But fascism is a top-down authoritarian (or even quasi-feudal) system, while socialist states promote unions and worker's rights.

Consider this discussion: http://atheism.about.com/b/2005/10/31/hitler-socialism.htm

And you shouldn't read too much into the name of his party. Consider the Federal Democratic Republic of Germany... sounds good doesn't it? But that was East Germany during the cold war.

thegratenate
12-30-2008, 2:19 PM
I agree, socialists are all about guns. I just don't see how Zach de la Rocha would end up with one in a real socialist revolution. Che and all of his other idols woulda gunned down his dumb ***.


I do have to profess a certain amount of respect for de la Rocha, because he has the testicular fortitude to tell the truth about what he thinks, feels, and believes( there are certain politicians that I do not have that same respect for).

If you are willing to say something to my face, I may disagree with you, but at least I am able to defend myself from your intentions. Or more appropriately we as a nation are able to defend ourselves at the voting booths.

BobB35
12-30-2008, 3:12 PM
I have always looked at the political scale as circular. If you go far enough left or right you will start to resemble your opposite. Look at communism (Far left) it resembles Fascism (Far right) more than anything else.

As Far as gun grabbing being a by-product. I would change that to prime tenet of any far left or right regime. Neither wants to be challenged by the "little" people and firearms have been the great equalizer since they were invented, so round em up and melt em down, if you want to keep the people down.

dwa
12-30-2008, 7:19 PM
how s fascism far right, id call it communism's brother (estranged)

otalps
12-30-2008, 7:42 PM
Fascism is only barely right of Communism and even so it still falls on the left side of the political sphere.

odysseus
12-30-2008, 8:06 PM
National Socialists of Germany's 1930's were obviously fascists, and very Socialistic minded in the duties and obligations of citizens to the "state". Fascism is not obligated to which spectrum of ideology you come from.

However true capitalism that has fair rules for entry and its practice, along with freedom of individual property rights, certainly befuddles fascism as a larger middle class populace is empowered both financially and intellectually - and thus resists those movements.

Socialism can be seen historically to push an agenda of servitude of the people to the state and in as such push agendas which restrict individual freedoms, such as the human inalienable right of arms.

.

M. Sage
12-30-2008, 10:05 PM
But fascism is a top-down authoritarian (or even quasi-feudal) system, while socialist states promote unions and worker's rights.

I cannot think of one socialist society where power wasn't derived from the top down. At first it might have bubbled up from the little people, but it's always been a means to an end, that end being fascism.

The defining aspect of socialism is that it places the state (community, society) ahead of the individual. Society literally owns your *** in a socialistic system.

wildhawker
12-30-2008, 11:41 PM
I cannot think of one socialist society where power wasn't derived from the top down. At first it might have bubbled up from the little people, but it's always been a means to an end, that end being fascism.

The defining aspect of socialism is that it places the state (community, society) ahead of the individual. Society literally owns your *** in a socialistic system.

Absolutely true; history confirms that the lower class(es) lose their perceived/anticipated spoils of war to the [new] governing class almost immeditaely following the revolution (brought about by the blood of the lower class).

I find it eerily similar to the pandering from our newest governing class which brought us our latest political "revolution", as some are calling it. "Change" by any other name is still a rose.

wildhawker
12-30-2008, 11:47 PM
I cannot think of one socialist society where power wasn't derived from the top down. At first it might have bubbled up from the little people, but it's always been a means to an end, that end being fascism.

The defining aspect of socialism is that it places the state (community, society) ahead of the individual. Society literally owns your *** in a socialistic system.

Absolutely true; history confirms that the lower class(es) lose their perceived/anticipated spoils of war to the [new] governing class almost immeditaely following the revolution (brought about by the blood of the lower class).

I find it eerily similar to the pandering from our newest governing class which brought us our latest political "revolution", as some are calling it. "Change" by any other name is still a rose.

Solidmch
12-31-2008, 12:30 AM
I agree, socialists are all about guns. I just don't see how Zach de la Rocha would end up with one in a real socialist revolution. Che and all of his other idols woulda gunned down his dumb ***.

They would have done it why Zachs family begged for his life.

Pvt. Cowboy
12-31-2008, 12:39 AM
Heh.. I was listening to Rage the other day and a few lines stuck in my head:

"I grip the canon like Fanon and pass the shells to my classmates"
"The ballot's dead so bullets what I get"
"The vulture tried to steal your name but now you got a gun, this is for the people of the sun"



Billboard's Hit Parade presents an evening with Rage Against Machine...

... brought to you by Budweiser™, The King Of Beers®
... and Reebok™®
... and Home Depot™®

(true story)

AaronHorrocks
12-31-2008, 8:20 AM
Gun grabbinging is a byproduct of authoritarianism; both ultra-left (socialist/communist) and ultra-right (fascist) governments have a history of it.

The ultra-right is Libertarian, not fascist.

radioburning
12-31-2008, 10:09 AM
The ultra-right is Libertarian, not fascist.

Incorrect.

The Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy states "libertarianism holds that agents initially fully own themselves and have moral powers to acquire property rights in external things under certain conditions." It notes that libertarianism is not a “right-wing” doctrine because of its opposition to laws restricting adult consensual sexual relationships and drug use, and its opposition to imposing religious views or practices and compulsory military service.

Technical Ted
12-31-2008, 10:28 AM
The ultra-right is Libertarian, not fascist.
...and by that thinking ultra-left is anarchism (original definition--look it up in a dictionary)

Bad Voodoo
12-31-2008, 10:35 AM
The defining aspect of socialism is that it places the state (community, society) ahead of the individual. Society literally owns your *** in a socialistic system.

Sounds like the political game they play in CA. And IL. And NY. And NJ. Coming soon to a federal 800 lb gorilla near you.

nicki
12-31-2008, 3:43 PM
I didn't vote for Obama and most of this board didn't.

Perhaps we can outreach to the business and investor community so that we can keep Obama in check.

Obama is a statist, but he has the cult of personality.

We are stuck with Obama for another four years, but in two years we can cut off his legs in the Congressional elections if he does as most of us fear.

George Bush Sr. had a 90 percent approval rating during the 1st gulf war, but public opinion turned against him and he lost in 1992.

The same thing will happen to Obama if he follows his real "core values".

Nicki

natedogg1777
12-31-2008, 4:17 PM
I love IBD. There's always a slant to the left or right no matter what you read, but if that article is even partially true I think I know what I'm going to do. I figure if I stop working so damn hard for my money, or maybe even stop working altogether, that I could actually end up making more money with all of these freebies being thrown around!

Just kidding...that mentality makes me sick<.>

rkt88edmo
12-31-2008, 5:09 PM
I think libertariansim is on the right - and the far right is anarchy/no gov. Facism and Communism both are totalitarian/Authoritarian far left.

I got to see Rage play the side stage at Lollapalooza 2 at Irvine Meadows (about a year and a half IIRC) before their first album was released. Completely off the hook and it seems like the whole crowd knew it even though most like me probably had never heard them before.

dasmi
12-31-2008, 5:23 PM
Gun grabbing is a product of government. Government can't exist without constantly increasing its scope and power. That includes grabbing guns.

Biff...
12-31-2008, 5:54 PM
Pretty much.. I dont know why everyone always equates socialism and gun-grabbing.

Heh.. I was listening to Rage the other day and a few lines stuck in my head:

"I grip the canon like Fanon and pass the shells to my classmates"
"The ballot's dead so bullets what I get"
"The vulture tried to steal your name but now you got a gun, this is for the people of the sun"

Im thinking, "See, these socialists are all about guns"


I miss Rage, heard they were back together though. I fondly remember the mosh pit at their concerts :taz: