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Window_Seat
12-27-2008, 5:35 PM
In the Portland Police Ride-Along Request Form application (http://www.portlandonline.com/police/index.cfm?&a=41803) of the Portland Police Bureau, one of the regulations for being a rider is:

"6. You cannot carry a firearm even if you have a concealed weapons permit. The exception is a certified police officer."

As a question, if an Officer or the Lieutenant of the Department (or an Official of high rank at the department) wanted, could he/she make a decision other than #6 of the rules for a citizen (non sworn officer) to carry either LOC or CCW? Is this a departmental policy or is it a state regulation or city/county ordinance?

Erik.

Fire in the Hole
12-27-2008, 5:51 PM
The best thing to do is just ask them. Or, check another major OR City's ride-Along form. If they are identical, then it's probably a state requirement. There's no doubt that this form was read and revised with input from the City Attorney's Office, and or the County Counsel. I can't believe that there is no provision stating the the use of audio and or video recordings, including photography with a camara or Cell phone are prohibited.

Ride-Alongs are becoming more scarace, for a multitude of reasons. If you have the chance, then by all means go!

Annie Oakley
12-27-2008, 6:13 PM
I went on a ride along with the West Covina Police Department when I was a sophomore in High School. We had signs on the police car that said "ride along" and there was a guy and another girl with me. We really didn't do alot, we just kind of watched other policemen that were doing their jobs. So, I remember going to a car accident, and I watched (from a distance) a policeman write someone a ticket, and it really wasn't anything like you see on TV. Before we were driven around for about 5 hours, they gave a tour of the police station, showed us where their dispatchers worked, showed us their gun range, and where they put their prisoners. I asked some questions, and the guy that was with us seemed really into it, but I and the other girl ( I don't remember her name) spent more time talking to each other than listening to the policeman.

I don't know about other police departments, but if I had a chance to do it again, I would probably say no thank you. I just seems like so boring, and not very informative.

cxr
12-27-2008, 6:16 PM
Ride along... carrying a CCW or open carry..

whaddaya think you ARE law enforcement.... just too many things can go wrong.

CSDGuy
12-27-2008, 6:41 PM
In the Portland Police Ride-Along Request Form application (http://www.portlandonline.com/police/index.cfm?&a=41803) of the Portland Police Bureau, one of the regulations for being a rider is:



As a question, if an Officer or the Lieutenant of the Department (or an Official of high rank at the department) wanted, could he/she make a decision other than #6 of the rules for a citizen (non sworn officer) to carry either LOC or CCW? Is this a departmental policy or is it a state regulation or city/county ordinance?

Erik.
They probably have that restriction to help protect them from liability if their rider shoots someone while with the Portland PD. Most of the cops I know have a personal policy that if they trust the rider, they'll show the rider where the shotgun release is... and do a quick instruction how to operate that particular shotgun... If they don't trust the rider, no info about how to release the shotgun is given.

Liberty1
12-27-2008, 6:47 PM
Ride along... carrying a CCW or open carry..

whaddaya think you ARE law enforcement.... just too many things can go wrong.

I tell all my ride-a-longs how to get the shotgun out if they needed it (they would know when that time was (shtf) but I always tell them to run away first if possible should something happen unless I'm down then cover me!) or I direct them to get it (yet to be needed but you never know) and I've had one ride-a-long with a 12050 LTC packin and I was glad for it!

Damn, I'd love LOC ride-a-longs too but heck read my posts I'm biased. Hav'em sign another waiver that whatever they do with their gun is on them.

Haven't gotten to use this yet...

12031 (b) Subdivision (a) shall not apply to any of the following:
(1) ...any person summoned by any of those officers to assist
in making arrests or preserving the peace while the person is
actually engaged in assisting that officer...

Time to form the calguns posse! Who are we going to arrest?

Shotgun Man
12-27-2008, 6:56 PM
Blurs the line way too much. I would be offended as an arrestee.

yellowfin
12-27-2008, 6:58 PM
I would either be carrying or I just wouldn't go. Unarmed bystander isn't a status I would pick knowing that the purpose of their day is to head towards trouble. "Too much can go wrong"-- uh, that's the point: if the police are involved, something already is going wrong. Being unarmed isn't an answer to the kind of situations they're around.

nicki
12-27-2008, 7:03 PM
The ride along program is voluntary, but if it was legal to carry a gun with me, I would, provided it was okay with the officers I'm riding along with.

I don't see Cops being okay with you doing LOC. They probably wouldn't want you to do CCW either, but who knows.

Most people who have CCW permits are not wanna be cops and while CCW holders have not been a problem for COPS, there have been a few incidents across the country where CCW holders have saved some officers a**es.

Let's face it, Cops deal with the "cream of our society".

If you are riding with a cop and say he does a routine traffic stop and it turns out the cop stopped someone real bad who just shoots him, what are you going to do?

You are now a witness to a murder, and maybe the person who just shot the cop may not want to leave a witness.

We as civilians have the choice to at least try to run away from hostile encounters, police on the other hand have to run where the action is.

I realize that ride along programs try to avoid real trouble, but sometimes trouble finds you.

Nicki

artherd
12-27-2008, 7:10 PM
We need to go on some ride alongs :)

I tell all my ride-a-longs how to get the shotgun out if they needed it (they would know when that that time was (shtf) but I always tell them to run away first if possible should something happen unless I'm down then cover me!) or I direct them to get it (yet to be needed but you never know) and I've had one ride-a-long with a 12050 LTC packin and I was glad for it!

Damn, I'd love LOC ride-a-longs too but heck read my posts I'm biased. Hav'em sign another waiver that what ever they do with their gun is on them.

tpuig
12-27-2008, 7:21 PM
I voted yes, should be allowed. But I understand how the city would not want to be liable for your actions.

I did a couple ride alongs with the East Palo Alto dept a number of years ago. (Had a buddy on the force) It was during the time period in which EPA was at or near the top of murders per capita in the USA. My buddy told me that he was happy to have me as a backup (since I had been in the Military Police) and to keep and eye on the street names. That was due to his impression that he was probably going to get hit in the throat and couldn't make a call in. I told him to treat me as a total virgin, and just show me where the shotgun release was. Overall it was a great experience. In one short shift we had a kidnapping, shooting, stabbing, and a suicide call. Not bad for 6 hours...
Things got quiet there for a couple years, but now it's getting bad again. I had an office very close by in bordering Menlo Park, and used to put a push pin on the map for each shooting until my co-workers finally had enough. ;-)

N6ATF
12-27-2008, 9:52 PM
Should they? Hell yes!
Will they? When pigs fly over a frozen tundra called Hell...

pullnshoot25
12-27-2008, 9:59 PM
I tell all my ride-a-longs how to get the shotgun out if they needed it (they would know when that time was (shtf) but I always tell them to run away first if possible should something happen unless I'm down then cover me!) or I direct them to get it (yet to be needed but you never know) and I've had one ride-a-long with a 12050 LTC packin and I was glad for it!

Damn, I'd love LOC ride-a-longs too but heck read my posts I'm biased. Hav'em sign another waiver that whatever they do with their gun is on them.

Haven't gotten to use this yet...



Time to form the calguns posse! Who are we going to arrest?

You are my favorite policeman, seriously.

I tip my hat to you, good sir :)

leelaw
12-27-2008, 11:59 PM
Eh, there's a liability in someone using their weapon while riding along - some scumbag-dead-guy's-family could try to claim that it was force used under the color of authority, and go after the PD, which will usually end with a "take this payout because it's less expensive than defending ourselves in court over this" which I just despise.

If the superior allows it and the officer has no hesitation, why not? If the ride-along knows how to use a firearm, then it's a bonus for the officer they're riding with. I think one of the rules of a gunfight is to bring more than one gun. ;)

ETA: Years back I was riding along with a sergeant. He knew I had firearms experience and the first thing he showed me was "this is the MP5 release, and here are the magazines. If you need to use it, then you'd better use it!"

FreedomIsNotFree
12-28-2008, 12:48 AM
Blurs the line way too much. I would be offended as an arrestee.

I don't believe your personal sensibilities are of much concern to the LEO'se when you are arrested. Once you get to jail they are even less of a concern.

gunrun45
12-28-2008, 1:05 AM
Some PD's have had issues with ride-alongs pulling their guns and firing at the wrong time. I had a ride along once (applicant) that I later discovered had carried a piece while on the ride along, even though I had asked him if he was carrying before he got in my car. He didn't even have a CCW... Obviously, he didn't make the cut.

It boils down to a liability problem with most LEA's. Ride along's are enough liability as it is. Allowing them to be armed might be construed by the courts as an expectation that they would use it if placed in that situation.

There are departments out there that DON'T even allow ride alongs anymore due to the liability. There are also other departments out there that don't even allow LE ride alongs to carry.

Shotgun Man
12-28-2008, 8:54 AM
I don't believe your personal sensibilities are of much concern to the LEO'se when you are arrested. Once you get to jail they are even less of a concern.

That is why it is important to have civilian oversight of the police.

sac550
12-28-2008, 1:40 PM
I you want to go on a ride long then you follow their rules. Most OC people are not trained to the level of police in weapon retention or the recovering of firearm taken by a suspect. Also people who OC don't have typically (I don't know any) that have a their pistol in level 2 or 3 holster. So you become a potential threat to an officer b/c your gun could end up in the hands of someone trying to hurt you or the officer. Is it likely to happen, no. However, I don't blame them for not wanting to risk it.

Don't think it is a big deal nor do I think we should get all up in arms over it. I don't think it helps the OC cause to make a big deal or fight the issue. All it does is bring un needed attention to OC by those who already think you shouldn't be allowed to OC. This is not the hill to die on as they say..just my 2 cents.

otteray
12-28-2008, 2:09 PM
That is why it is important to have civilian oversight of the police.
Careful how you setup civilian oversight.
We used to have a "Citizen's Review Board" here in Santa Cruz, for reviewing police arrests .
God, what a mess!
A bunch foolish anti-police folks were on it.
Non-stop, unfounded police "brutality" charges was the name of the game.
It's since been abandoned here; but we still are effected by it's lame policy recommendations, IMHO.

Quiet
12-28-2008, 4:48 PM
Most LE Department policy forbids civilians from carrying firearms during a ride-along, due to liability reasons.

That said, all the ride-alongs I went on with the San Bernardino County Sheriff's has always had an unofficial talk from the deputy about "this is how you release the shotgun from the cradle, so back me up if someone starts shooting".

domokun
12-28-2008, 6:01 PM
Why supply your own firearms when there's usually at least 1 long gun in the patrol vehicle that you're sitting next to? The long gun will do more damage to a shooter attacking a police officer than the officer's duty weapon strapped to his hip.

BigDogatPlay
12-28-2008, 6:42 PM
The first talk I always had with non-LEO ridealongs was where the buttons were for the shotgun and how to use the radio if something went sideways and I was getting my rear end kicked, or worse.

Have to agree with others above that it's all about liability as goes to carrying on a ridealong. That's what the departments think of first, ahead of even the officers, or so it seems sometimes.