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diddler
12-18-2008, 7:33 PM
All,

Chatting with a co-worker of mine, he mentioned he doesn't think he can get a gun due to some legal issues when he was a minor. Apparently got into a fist fight when he was 14, somehow it was ruled as "gang activity", spent some time in Juvi. After he turned 18 he was turned down for a job in security due to his record. Has a vague recollection of a lawyer "clearing up stuff", but that was 6 some odd years ago. He's now 24, and wouldn't mind getting something to use at the range.

So, other than plunking down the green on a shiny piece at the local gun shop then having to deal with the embarassment of getting denied a few days later, how does one tell if they're eligible? Some little-known DOJ form?

I've read posts in the past, rather vague mentions of getting a lawyer to expunge old records that occurred when a minor. Do they even care about violent crimes committed as a minor?

Thanks!

aklon
12-18-2008, 7:40 PM
About three years ago they passed a law that says even without buying a handgun, you can do a check on yourself. I believe that all you need pay is the standard fee and you'll know soon enough if you're good to go or not. Plus, without your actually trying to purchase a firearm, this avoids any messy legal complications.

40caldeserteagle
12-18-2008, 7:41 PM
There is a form on the DOJ website that he can submit. He might be able to pick it up from his local FFL as well.

David F.

G17GUY
12-18-2008, 7:43 PM
http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/forms/pdf/pfecapp.pdf

Just tell him to spend 5 more bucks and do a dros.

Shotgun Man
12-18-2008, 7:46 PM
I've heard it referred to as the COE, the certificate of eligibility.

40caldeserteagle
12-18-2008, 7:52 PM
http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/forms/pdf/pfecapp.pdf

Just tell him to spend 5 more bucks and do a dros.

I could be wrong about this but I thought that if the person in question was ineligible to possess a firearm, trying to purchase one could be a felony.

David F.

40caldeserteagle
12-18-2008, 7:53 PM
I've heard it referred to as the COE, the certificate of eligibility.

The COE is something different. It allows some perks but it is not the form we are discussing.

David F.

JDay
12-18-2008, 8:04 PM
Tell him to get his record sealed. Should be easy if he's been staying out of trouble.

CaliforniaLiberal
12-18-2008, 8:18 PM
Here is the form to send in to the CA DOJ. $20, a copy of your CADL and a Notary stamp required.

http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/forms/pdf/pfecapp.pdf


And here is the official CA DOJ California Firearms Laws Summary. A very useful guide to California Gun Law.

http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/forms/pdf/Cfl2007.pdf


And the California Penal Code. You'll be most interested in Section 12000 (not 1200, keep going down the page). I found this pretty intimidating at first and there are some parts that still are Greek to me, but just look up something you want to know in the DOJ Summary, it will give a fairly plain explanation and then you can look up the section in the Penal Code to read the actual language.:sleeping:

http://law.justia.com/california/codes/pen.html


And here is the Bureau of Firearms site where a great treasure of information (and forms) may be found. Also the famous (infamous) Roster of Handguns Certified for Sale, aka the Safe Handgun List. Not everyone agrees that every bit of info on the BoF site is the simple truth. :bofud: Read CalGuns Forum and other resources for more clarity on the controversial bits.

http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/


#1 Research Assignment: Why are there no single action revolvers on the Safe Handgun List?


After you've read some and used the CalGuns Search function and maybe Google, ask some more questions.


Enjoy!

CL

Meplat
12-18-2008, 8:29 PM
Boy!! Talk about setting off alarms!!!:eek:


About three years ago they passed a law that says even without buying a handgun, you can do a check on yourself. I believe that all you need pay is the standard fee and you'll know soon enough if you're good to go or not. Plus, without your actually trying to purchase a firearm, this avoids any messy legal complications.

Anthonysmanifesto
12-18-2008, 8:42 PM
Boy!! Talk about setting off alarms!!!:eek:

the personal eligibility check was an important bill- it allows people to go through the process without being guilty of being prohibited person attempting to purchase a gun.

It is a cost effective way to find out if you are ok to buy a gun.

Meplat
12-18-2008, 8:44 PM
#1 Research Assignment: Why are there no single action revolvers on the Safe Handgun List?

Because even though they are the #1 offender in the 'drop on hammer and kill self or friend' category, most are too slow to reload to be an effective modern combat arm.

Also, they are very popular with the public and are big money makers for some very influential manufacturers.

Has not one thing to do with "safety".

CL


:rolleyes:

CaliforniaLiberal
12-18-2008, 8:58 PM
Maybe I'm too gullible, but I don't think sending in this form will set off alarms, as long as you're not on the FBIs 10 Most Wanted List.

The eligibility check form has this statement on it.

"This check is for informational purposes and is
intended to assist applicants in ascertaining their
eligibility to possess and/or purchase firearms.
Any findings from this check will not result in the
applicant being arrested or prosecuted for pro-
viding false information for the purposes of com-
pleting a Dealer Record of Sale or a federal form
4473 "

Has anyone ever heard of any arrests or prosecutions resulting from using this form?

I think it's pretty safe unless maybe you're a known bank robber or escaped from prison or some such (or threw your shoe at the president?).

CL

anthonyca
12-18-2008, 10:49 PM
Its funny I know of a guy who was denied on a DROS and PFEC. The first PFEC came back in less then 2 weeks saying denied. Then he got in contact with the DOJ they were interpreting his case from the arrest record when he was 18 and the woman was denying him based what he was arrested for and not the lesser charge he was convicted of. He got a lawyer and was cleared up. Next PFEC hasn't come back for over a month. DOJ doesn't like to admit they are wrong.

Fill out that form and get it notarized.

SJgunguy24
12-19-2008, 12:40 AM
Does your friend know any cops? Have them run his name through NCIC. Thats an easy way to check without letting the DOJ know anything.

ke6guj
12-19-2008, 12:59 AM
#1 Research Assignment: Why are there no single action revolvers on the Safe Handgun List?

Is this a trick question? I know that there are single-action revolvers that are on the Roster of not unsafe handguns.

NiteQwill
12-19-2008, 2:57 AM
Does your friend know any cops? Have them run his name through NCIC. Thats an easy way to check without letting the DOJ know anything.

+1 Easiest, cheapest (err... FREEest?) way... ;)

CaliforniaLiberal
12-19-2008, 4:33 AM
{#1 Research Assignment: Why are there no single action revolvers on the Safe Handgun List?}

The Correct Answer is that Single Action Revolvers that are greater than 7.5 inches in overall length are Exempt from the list requirements. They are not listed at all.

"12133. (a) The provisions of this chapter shall not apply to a
single-action revolver that has at least a 5-cartridge capacity with
a barrel length of not less than three inches, and meets any of the
following specifications:
(1) Was originally manufactured prior to 1900 and is a curio or
relic, as defined in Section 478.11 of Title 27 of the Code of
Federal Regulations.
(2) Has an overall length measured parallel to the barrel of at
least 71/2 inches when the handle, frame or receiver, and barrel are
assembled."
.... There's more - go look it up yourself.....

Henceforth, I shall always refer to it as the Roster of Not Unsafe Handguns. That has a good ring to it, the perfect tone of confused bureaucracy, unnecessary regulation, and clueless legislators. Kinda Monty Python. (The Ministry of Silly Walks)

OK, now someone else give us an interesting and not too difficult question that will get us all out to romp and play in the 12000 Section of the Penal Code.

CL

diddler
12-19-2008, 5:57 AM
Here is the form to send in to the CA DOJ. $20, a copy of your CADL and a Notary stamp required.

http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/forms/pdf/pfecapp.pdf

That appears to be what we were looking for, thanks! We even have a Notary who works on staff.

So, lets say he submits this form, and gets denied. Do they explain exactly why he is denied, or do they simply say no? Sure would be helpful to get things cleared up if they explain up front whats happening. Just trying to get the whole chain of events in order so I can tell him the good news today.

Thanks again!

ke6guj
12-19-2008, 11:26 AM
{#1 Research Assignment: Why are there no single action revolvers on the Safe Handgun List?}

The Correct Answer is that Single Action Revolvers that are greater than 7.5 inches in overall length are Exempt from the list requirements. They are not listed at all.


Right, but single-action revolvers that do not meet the minimum dimensions are not exempt from the Roster and would need to be tested. And there are single-action revolvers that had to be tested and are listed on the Roster because they are too small to be exempt.

DDT
12-19-2008, 11:29 AM
CL Perhaps you should start a thread "Gun Law Trivia" might be better than dumping another person's thread.

JDay
12-19-2008, 4:21 PM
That appears to be what we were looking for, thanks! We even have a Notary who works on staff.

So, lets say he submits this form, and gets denied. Do they explain exactly why he is denied, or do they simply say no? Sure would be helpful to get things cleared up if they explain up front whats happening. Just trying to get the whole chain of events in order so I can tell him the good news today.

Thanks again!

Like I said in another post, just have him get his juvenile records sealed. Once this is done he has nothing to worry about, although I'm not even sure the state can look at your juvenile records when you DROS a firearm.

DDT
12-19-2008, 4:27 PM
Have your friend get a copy of his record from:

[Source (http://www.courtinfo.ca.gov/selfhelp/other/crimlawclean.htm)]
The California State Department of Justice This is an external link. Click this icon for our external linking policy., Criminal Records Division. They will have your criminal records information for the entire State of California. They are located at 4949 Broadway, First Floor Fingerprinting Office, Sacramento, California. Their phone number is (916) 227-3400. There is a fee, but you may be eligible for a fee waiver. You must provide written proof of your income. It may take several weeks for the record to arrive in the mail.


This should be the same "criminal record" that DOJ uses to determine his legal ability to own a firearm.


If you follow the "source" link above it is actually a self-help site on cleaning up your record.

CSDGuy
12-19-2008, 4:35 PM
Does your friend know any cops? Have them run his name through NCIC. Thats an easy way to check without letting the DOJ know anything.
The only problem with doing a CLETS/NCIC check on yourself is that if you've got a warrant out for your arrest and you're right there in person, guess what? I have heard this (and the result) from cops that have had their friends ask for a CLETS/NCIC check...

diddler
12-19-2008, 4:43 PM
Like I said in another post, just have him get his juvenile records sealed. Once this is done he has nothing to worry about....

As best as he can recall, thats what he did when he turned 18. I don't doubt that he should be ready to go, I handed him a copy of the PFEC form, and he'll be submitting that. I still don't have a solid answer on what information you're given if denied. I think this question has fallen down to the bottom of a stagnating thread, so I'll probably start a new thread in a few days on that specific question if nothing turns up in this thread, or I can't find my answer in old threads.

Thanks!

anthonyca
12-19-2008, 5:48 PM
That appears to be what we were looking for, thanks! We even have a Notary who works on staff.

So, lets say he submits this form, and gets denied. Do they explain exactly why he is denied, or do they simply say no? Sure would be helpful to get things cleared up if they explain up front whats happening. Just trying to get the whole chain of events in order so I can tell him the good news today.

Thanks again!

In case I in which I read all the paperwork and listened in on the phone number they just sent back a form saying tha he was denied from purchasing or possessing fire arms. No explination. Calling the DOJ is like the DMV on steroids.

40caldeserteagle
12-19-2008, 6:12 PM
As best as he can recall, thats what he did when he turned 18. I don't doubt that he should be ready to go, I handed him a copy of the PFEC form, and he'll be submitting that. I still don't have a solid answer on what information you're given if denied. I think this question has fallen down to the bottom of a stagnating thread, so I'll probably start a new thread in a few days on that specific question if nothing turns up in this thread, or I can't find my answer in old threads.

Thanks!

I don't know exactly what information they will send to him if any but if he does get denied, he should be able to call the DOJ and speak to the analyst that was doing his background check. When I was delayed it took about 5 minutes to get someone on the line and the issue (the release paperwork sent to FFL) was solved within an hour.

David F.

JDay
12-19-2008, 7:18 PM
As best as he can recall, thats what he did when he turned 18. I don't doubt that he should be ready to go, I handed him a copy of the PFEC form, and he'll be submitting that. I still don't have a solid answer on what information you're given if denied. I think this question has fallen down to the bottom of a stagnating thread, so I'll probably start a new thread in a few days on that specific question if nothing turns up in this thread, or I can't find my answer in old threads.

Thanks!

If he had done that when he turned 18 he should have received a signed/stamped copy of the order from the court. Also, if he had not been off probation for a period of 1 year when he filed for that it would have been denied. He may even be one of those people who thinks its automatically sealed when you turn 18.