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GMONEY
12-18-2008, 5:04 PM
"This week, Hutchens and county attorneys told supervisors that a revoked gun permit would be filed in a statewide database on firearms but not on criminal history databases."

I guess I will be entered into the system and LEO will assume I am a criminal even though I am not...

"Hutchens said she understands that her stance on gun permits has created political enemies from the gun activists. But she thinks they are a minority and that the broader community respects her approach."

Wow... Elitism at it's finest...

http://www.ocregister.com/articles/gun-permits-hutchens-2260539-carona-county

Black Majik
12-18-2008, 5:10 PM
Well, my first thought was... well it doesn't matter since it will be bleeped out anyways..

dustoff31
12-18-2008, 5:20 PM
"Hutchens said she understands that her stance on gun permits has created political enemies from the gun activists. But she thinks they are a minority and that the broader community respects her approach."


Sadly, she is probably right.

DDT
12-18-2008, 5:23 PM
Someone should ask her if her stance on CCW extends to herself off duty or if she is booted will she carry after she is no longer a LEO.

Bad Voodoo
12-18-2008, 5:25 PM
"This week, Hutchens and county attorneys told supervisors that a revoked gun permit would be filed in a statewide database on firearms but not on criminal history databases."

I guess I will be entered into the system and LEO will assume I am a criminal even though I am not...

"Hutchens said she understands that her stance on gun permits has created political enemies from the gun activists. But she thinks they are a minority and that the broader community respects her approach."

Wow... Elitism at it's finest...

http://www.ocregister.com/articles/gun-permits-hutchens-2260539-carona-county

They. Don't. Care.

But that's ok, CA!!! Keep voting them in there!!!

N6ATF
12-18-2008, 8:50 PM
So either she went back on her word that she would wait for the DOJ to reply to take any action, or the DOJ actually replied when they almost never do, and were predicted not to in this case as well.

Harrison_Bergeron
12-18-2008, 9:18 PM
Which them are you referring to?

They. Don't. Care.

But that's ok, CA!!! Keep voting them in there!!!

tango-52
12-18-2008, 9:23 PM
They. Don't. Care.

But that's ok, CA!!! Keep voting them in there!!!

She was appointed to fill out the term of the previous Sheriff (currently indicted by the Feds), not voted into office.

yellowfin
12-18-2008, 9:26 PM
Yet another case where official oppression law would come in handy. That attitude coupled with some actions would have consequences for her. Hey Santa Gene, can you put that in our stocking?

anthonyca
12-18-2008, 9:45 PM
"

"Hutchens said she understands that her stance on gun permits has created political enemies from the gun activists. But she thinks they are a minority and that the broader community respects her approach."



http://www.ocregister.com/articles/gun-permits-hutchens-2260539-carona-county

This is why the founding fathers esablished a constitutional republic and NOT A DEMOCRACY. I would like her to show anywhere in the Constitution where it speaks that we are a democracy or that the minority can have rights trampled.

rynando
12-18-2008, 10:19 PM
This is why the founding fathers esablished a constitutional republic and NOT A DEMOCRACY. I would like her to show anywhere in the Constitution where it speaks that we are a democracy or that the minority can have rights trampled.

Sadly in this state CCW is not a right . . . it's a privilege which is handed out at the pleasure of CLEOs. The only real remedy for a non-issuing Sheriff is an election.

sholling
12-18-2008, 10:54 PM
The incumbent sheriff protection act assures that she will be reelected. It's a sure thing since it's illegal for the rabble (mere citizens) to run for that office. No viable (legal) alternative means automatic election. She knows darn well her job is safe. And you can count on her to move on her enemies as some as the coronation is over.

steadyrock
12-18-2008, 11:31 PM
The incumbent sheriff protection act assures that she will be reelected. It's a sure thing since it's illegal for the rabble (mere citizens) to run for that office. No viable (legal) alternative means automatic election. She knows darn well her job is safe. And you can count on her to move on her enemies as some as the coronation is over.

??? :fud:

You need to get your facts straight. The only "Incumbent Sheriff Protection Act" I've ever heard of requires a sitting sheriff up for re-election to take a leave of absence during a campaign. This is to protect their campaign from potentially negative blowback of big police actions during that time, and it's not even on the books in Orange County.

You could run for Sheriff in 2010, assuming you meet the minimum qualifications of age, citizenship, and so forth. I could run. Lots of people could. And I know of at least one who will be. This girl is going to be shown the door along with many of the supervisors who appointed her in 2010. If we work together we can assure that because together, we win.

sholling
12-18-2008, 11:49 PM
??? :fud:

You need to get your facts straight. The only "Incumbent Sheriff Protection Act" I've ever heard of requires a sitting sheriff up for re-election to take a leave of absence during a campaign. This is to protect their campaign from potentially negative blowback of big police actions during that time, and it's not even on the books in Orange County.

You could run for Sheriff in 2010, assuming you meet the minimum qualifications of age, citizenship, and so forth. I could run. Lots of people could. And I know of at least one who will be. This girl is going to be shown the door along with many of the supervisors who appointed her in 2010. If we work together we can assure that because together, we win.You need yo get your facts straight. Buford Pusser types are not legal in California. You must meet strict standards (http://www.metnews.com/articles/rawl041603.htm) for law enforcement experience. That includes an advanced certificate issued by the Commission on Peace Officer Standards and Training and between one and fours years as a full time paid LEO depending on the candidate's education. Do you have an advanced certificate? I don't so I can't run. I'm afraid that you mistook California for America. This is a law that was put in place by Brad Gates' cronies to protect then sheriff Gates when Judge Bobby Youngblood was a serious contender for the job.

BTW while your reading the link that I included for you you'll see why it's important to get a good lawyer to handle civil rights challenges.
Name calling in any context is not allowed, find a more appropriate way to express your opinion.

represted himself and lost what might have been a very winnable case. By losing this case, case law has now been established upholding this totalitarian law that will be hard to tear down.

GunSlut
12-19-2008, 12:23 AM
The DOJ did get back to her over two weeks ago with their answer.

rynando
12-19-2008, 1:56 AM
This girl is going to be shown the door along with many of the supervisors who appointed her in 2010. If we work together we can assure that because together, we win.

Expect to read things like “Sheriff Hutchens fought the powerful gun lobby to keep deadly weapons off your streets and away from your children” in her campaign ads. This whole fiasco has been a political treasure trove for her, on so many levels. I respect what you were trying to do by appealing to the BOS over this issue but I think all you’ve done is handed her another “accomplishment” bullet-point (or two) for her upcoming campaign flyers.

For the life of me I don’t understand what you expected the county supervisors to do about this. They can’t make her do anything. I read some of your member’s posts here regarding the BOS cutting safety services budgets over this but that could never happen. The idea that a BOS member is going to “punish” the County with reduced safety services so “Corona’s cronies” could keep their guns is laughable. The county dog catcher could successfully run against an incumbent supervisor with that ammo. All you could do was fight an unwinnable fight and hand her an easy victory for her to exploit during the next election.

Regardless I wish you luck in 2010. Like many I find myself in a county where a CCW is a dream and the incumbent sheriff is easily re-elected time and time again.

R

Librarian
12-19-2008, 2:01 AM
Not that it's likely, but she's an appointee at the moment. The appointment could be withdrawn by the BofS. "Insubordination" would be the grounds.

If she were to be re-elected, the BofS loses that power.

yellowfin
12-19-2008, 2:06 AM
Expect to read things like “Sheriff Hutchens fought the powerful gun lobby to keep deadly weapons off your streets and away from your children” in her campaign ads. Can't our side just as easily run "Hutchens said "F*** you" to law abiding citizens wanting to defend their families and flipped the middle finger to the committee who oversees her doing her job" ? Quit validating the opposition. The antis have an imaginary power that only becomes real when nobody calls their bull**** loud with enough force. These anti gun toad sheriffs can be and deserve to be made public enemy number one.

N6ATF
12-19-2008, 2:08 AM
If that's possible, and they don't toss her for insubordination, then they do need to be voted out of office along with her.

rynando
12-19-2008, 2:18 AM
Not that it's likely, but she's an appointee at the moment. The appointment could be withdrawn by the BofS. "Insubordination" would be the grounds.

If she were to be re-elected, the BofS loses that power.

Yes I suppose anything COULD happen but . . . as you’re implying . . . there’s just no conceivable way that would occur. The press would absolutely devour it.

R

yellowfin
12-19-2008, 2:21 AM
Yes I suppose anything COULD happen but . . . as you’re implying . . . there’s just no conceivable way that would occur. The press would absolutely devour it.

RNot so sure about that, they seemed to take our side decently well in reporting it this time around. It would make for just as good press material--in the form of a train wreck, which they love-- to see a sheriff ousted by a sort of rebellion of the citizenry in response to oppression. The story is just too good to resist.

rynando
12-19-2008, 2:44 AM
Can't our side just as easily run "Hutchens said "F*** you" to law abiding citizens wanting to defend their families and flipped the middle finger to the committee who oversees her doing her job" ? Quit validating the opposition. The antis have an imaginary power that only becomes real when nobody calls their bull**** loud with enough force. These anti gun toad sheriffs can be and deserve to be made public enemy number one.

I’m not validating the opposition. I’m giving you a preview of the hay that can be made out of this. Throughout this ordeal it’s looked like the OCCCW members were basically giving their political enemy a very public victory by implementing an unwinnable strategy. Now might not be the time call anyone’s “bulls*** loud with enough force.” It instead might be the time to drop the issue in its entirety, find a candidate for sheriff that will issue CCWs (and is in absolutely no way connected to that scum bag Corona) and start fund raising and collecting endorsements.

R

yellowfin
12-19-2008, 3:05 AM
They definitely need to do that, for sure, and make sure that candidate doesn't get torpedoed. A good friend of mine told me some time ago a great replacement for Santa Clara's wicked witch got derailed by a couple of journalists' poison pen campaign.

CAL.BAR
12-19-2008, 1:07 PM
Sadly, she is probably right.


I said so in the first posting before the hearing. CCW's are less than one third of one percent of the OC population. You can't get much more minority than that.

Guess we just have to champion a more "popular" cause

chiefcrash
12-19-2008, 2:33 PM
"Hutchens said she understands that her stance on gun permits has created political enemies from the gun activists. But she thinks they are a minority and that the broader community respects her approach."

http://www.ocregister.com/articles/gun-permits-hutchens-2260539-carona-county

Let's try a thought experiment. What Hutchens has said today will probably not recieve a second thought from anyone but us gun owners. But what if she said the following, modifying only 2 terms:

"Hutchens said she understands that her stance on slavery has created political enemies from the African Americans. But she thinks they are a minority and that the broader community respects her approach."

Now, if anybody said something like, they'd be all but hanged. Interesting...

bulgron
12-19-2008, 2:36 PM
I said so in the first posting before the hearing. CCW's are less than one third of one percent of the OC population. You can't get much more minority than that.

Guess we just have to champion a more "popular" cause

How enthusiastic do individuals usually get for Sheriff's elections in California? That is, how many volunteers and donations can Hutchens count on from the huge majority of people who do not have CCWs?

Contrast that to the hundreds of people who are highly motivated to see her lose this election. Consider the man-hours and donations they're likely to put out there to campaign for a candidate they like better.

If the OC gunnies remain motivated and organized, Hutchens may have more of a problem facing her than she realizes.

Shotgun Man
12-19-2008, 2:39 PM
How enthusiastic do individuals usually get for Sheriff's elections in California? That is, how many volunteers and donations can Hutchens count on from the huge majority of people who do not have CCWs?

Contrast that to the hundreds of people who are highly motivated to see her lose this election. Consider the man-hours and donations they're likely to put out there to campaign for a candidate they like better.

If the OC gunnies remain motivated and organized, Hutchens may have more of a problem facing her than she realizes.

She's off to a bad start if her hope is being re-elected. She alientated BOS. She is vulnerable. She thinks she back in LA.

Glock22Fan
12-19-2008, 2:55 PM
Consider the man-hours and donations they're likely to put out there to campaign for a candidate they like better.

And if they have any sense, they will not mention (or they will play down) their candidate's good CCW intentions. They will promote him/her as being tough on crime, kisses babies, etc. etc. etc.

dustoff31
12-19-2008, 3:02 PM
And if they have any sense, they will not mention (or they will play down) their candidate's good CCW intentions. They will promote him/her as being tough on crime, kisses babies, etc. etc. etc.

Absolutely correct. Many forget that we are not only fighting the anti-gunners, but also the vast majority who don't think unless they are given things to think about.

M. D. Van Norman
12-19-2008, 3:54 PM
I think that Sheriff Hutchens lost the election on Nov. 18th. She was hired to fix the jail system in Orange County, and there she was wasting the Board of Supervisors’ time on CCW licenses. She bungled her job and made a bunch of vocal political enemies.

DDT
12-19-2008, 4:06 PM
Absolutely correct. Many forget that we are not only fighting the anti-gunners, but also the vast majority who don't think unless they are given things to think about.

+1

Making CCW a number one issue will not get very far. Find a good candidate with a strong LE background who happens to support self defense as GC. If you run him as pro-CCW he'll be painted as a gun nut. Quite frankly I wouldn't want a sheriff who is more concerned about CCWs than fighting crime and putting away bad guys. I want one who is a great leader, tough on crime AND understands the true meaning of the second amendment.

M. D. Van Norman
12-19-2008, 4:09 PM
Exactly!

steadyrock
12-19-2008, 4:38 PM
I think that Sheriff Hutchens lost the election on Nov. 18th. She was hired to fix the jail system in Orange County, and there she was wasting the Board of Supervisors’ time on CCW licenses. She bungled her job and made a bunch of vocal political enemies.

You're exactly right. She is not doing the job she was hired to do. Not only did she lie to the BoS during the pre-appointment hearings about her priorities and CCW stance (this is well documented so I will not rehash it here), she has completely ignored the to-do list she was given by the Supervisors and has focused entirely on her own pet projects. We are no better off now than we were a year ago. In fact, Part 1 crimes are up since last year for 4 of the 5 months since she was installed. These stats are available on her own website.

Hutchens is an epic failure. Her inability to stay on-task and address the very specific list of issues she was handed will not be forgotten during the 2010 campaign. Her approach to law enforcement is both costly and ineffective, and does not line up with what is wanted/needed in OC. Come 2010, she will not have any positive accomplishments to point to during her campaign, and she will be facing some very stiff competition. I hope she enjoys her stay, because it won't last long.

RomanDad
12-19-2008, 5:11 PM
Sadly, she is probably right.

No... She isn't.

She knows darn well her job is safe.

No... It isn't.

Expect to read things like “Sheriff Hutchens fought the powerful gun lobby to keep deadly weapons off your streets and away from your children” in her campaign ads. This whole fiasco has been a political treasure trove for her, on so many levels. I respect what you were trying to do by appealing to the BOS over this issue but I think all you’ve done is handed her another “accomplishment” bullet-point (or two) for her upcoming campaign flyers.



That hasn't happened. And I dont suspect it will. It will not fly in Orange County.


For the life of me I don’t understand what you expected the county supervisors to do about this.

R

For the life of me, I cant understand why somebody who doesn't live in Orange County, Who hasnt worked on this issue, and who apparently isn't motivated enough to try to fix your own CCW system, is so invested in US FAILING IN OUR EFFORTS... But then again, its easy to sit around and come up with reasons the work others do will fail.... Its a lot harder to get off your *** and fix what broken.

I said so in the first posting before the hearing. CCW's are less than one third of one percent of the OC population. You can't get much more minority than that.

Guess we just have to champion a more "popular" cause


This is a misreading of statistics.... Yes... CCW holders are a MINORITY in Orange County..... As They are in OHIO, MICHIGAN, and even TEXAS.... Yet those states have SHALL ISSUE CCW systems.... Because, like ALL rights, more people SUPPORT THE IDEA of them, than actually participate in the right when they have it. We have for far too long UNDERESTIMATED OUR STRENGTH and been AFRAID to push for more.

And if they have any sense, they will not mention (or they will play down) their candidate's good CCW intentions. They will promote him/her as being tough on crime, kisses babies, etc. etc. etc.


Wrong again. That was the tact we took when the BOS was making its selection. We had candidates we wanted, but we kept our mouths shut til it was too late.... We supproted them for EVERY nonsense issue EXCEPT CCW, pretending that issue didnt matter hoping we would win anyways and then get what we really wanted by default.... NO MORE. This time, the candidate will run on CCW. Just as Carona did in 98. And what we have done in Orange County is set the table. Its not going to be enough The candidates to give lip service to the issue or give cryptic "ill follow the law" platitudes. We are now hearing about candidates.... Several of them.... And they are going to be breaking their own necks to "out CCW each other"....

This is a civil right issue.... And like every other civil rights issue, hiding in a closet waiting for the masters to throw us some crumbs through their benevolence, only leads to the continuation of the abuse. WE ARE OUT OF THE CLOSET.

THATS WHAT I DID TODAY.... What did the rest of you do?

Pointcrossed
12-19-2008, 5:48 PM
Another thing we have to realize. Unlike other free states that have a less stringent CCW policy, they also have less LEO. In California and most counties like LA, Law Enforcement is a business and it is not controlled by the people of the county. The only way to make profit in the Business of Law Enforcement is to reduce or even eliminate the need of personal protection. TV shows like Law and Order, CSI 48Hrs and others are all LE advertisements to make people feel like Law Enforcement is in control, and that is only true after there are victims of crime or homicides. Police only investigate crimes they are not there to protect you or prevent them. If they did they would be out of business therefore criminals must prevail. Why do you think the jails are overcrowded, and when the crime rate drops is when they start early release programs and early parole. Law Enforcement is all a business and business is good!

U2BassAce
12-19-2008, 6:33 PM
Yes I suppose anything COULD happen but . . . as you’re implying . . . there’s just no conceivable way that would occur. The press would absolutely devour it.

R

Yeah the BOS basically begged her to stop. Wonder why? I guess there is their reelection to consider. But the most vocal is termed out. Then I wonder why they announced a hiring freeze a couple of weeks later? Maybe on this one the OC BOS is looking after the county's best interest?

RomanDad
12-19-2008, 7:35 PM
Yeah the BOS basically begged her to stop. Wonder why? I guess there is their reelection to consider. But the most vocal is termed out. Then I wonder why they announced a hiring freeze a couple of weeks later? Maybe on this one the OC BOS is looking after the county's best interest?

Yes... Ive met with them.... Ive looked them in the eyes... I like to think I have a pretty sophisticated BULL**** DETECTOR... And the majority of them agree with us on this issue to one degree or another... CLEARLY some of them are motivated by the politics of the issue as well... But there is more to it than that... MUCH MORE... And they are as baffled by her actions as we are.

Regardless.... The drum is beating. We got a LOT of mileage and results out of the first meeting... A long time OPPONENT of CCW came out in the wake of that meeting and swore to anybody who listened that he has seen the light and is now pro CCW.... Is he just a Political whore? Yes.... But hes OUR political whore now....

As far as Im concerned, were going to become a fixture at the BOS meetings and promise to screw up their Tuesdays every few months til this get fixed. We have enough people to show up and put comment cards in on EVERY ISSUE BEFORE THEM IF NECESSARY to bring their meetings to a GRINDING HALT.

WE ARE NOT GOING AWAY.

rynando
12-20-2008, 11:34 PM
For the life of me, I cant understand why somebody who doesn't live in Orange County, Who hasnt worked on this issue, and who apparently isn't motivated enough to try to fix your own CCW system, is so invested in US FAILING IN OUR EFFORTS... But then again, its easy to sit around and come up with reasons the work others do will fail.... Its a lot harder to get off your *** and fix what broken.

I’m not invested in you failing in your efforts . . . far from it. It’s a little ironic that you would accuse me of this seeing as you've spent so much time on this forum throwing stones at another CCW "figure." Your avatar looks a little different on another CCW-related board you frequent which further highlights your “investment” in that person’s failure. When I "invest" the time to put up an animated avatar that mocks someone else or post disparaging remarks in the vast majority of the threads someone else starts or participates in then we can revisit your claim.

I've asked you in the past what benefit your group's going in front of the BOS could have. I thought that if you were taking this step you might have something interesting planned and I was considering attending your BOS meetings. You replied that there was the possibility that the BOS would manipulate the Sherriff's budget if she refused to alter her CCW policy. The fact that you assumed that there was even the remotest chance of that happening was amazing to me. There's no way that would happen. The Sheriff could sit there, listen to your public comment and just shrug you off, which, unsurprisingly she since has. Your group's members have said she's a horrible failure and that she has no real accomplishments to run on in 2010. Well, she has one very spinnable "accomplishment" now, and you’ve just handed it to her.

I’m upset that you failed as it represents a loss for the CCW effort in this state. You were successful in obtaining a fair amount of local (and some national) press coverage for your group. You did a great job getting people to show up to publicly to support you. You garnered all this attention for the CCW issuance problems in CA and then you marched into a self-created unwinnable situation and handed the Sheriff an easy victory. To top it off you have one of your key members running to this board making very inflammatory statements regarding the NRA in this state and her perceptions of the damage they caused your case and their overall worth. It could be argued that your ham-fisted attempt to "call out" the Sheriff like this in front of a body that has no real power to influence her was quite damaging in and of itself.

. . . Who hasnt worked on this issue, and who apparently isn't motivated enough to try to fix your own CCW system, is so invested in US FAILING IN OUR EFFORTS... But then again, its easy to sit around and come up with reasons the work others do will fail.... Its a lot harder to get off your *** and fix what broken.


You don’t know me from Adam. How can you make this claim? Even if I have, as you suggest, done absolutely nothing to further the CCW agenda in my own county at least I haven’t harmed it by allowing a CLEO put her thumb in my group's eye in a very public way. How do you think other CLEOs felt when they read the current Sheriff's snarky comment which both marginalized your group and affirmed the lack of influence the supervisors whom appointed her have over her? You think maybe that was a little empowering for them?


THATS WHAT I DID TODAY.... What did the rest of you do?

I could easily ask you what you did YESTERDAY for the CCW cause in this state, prior to your own CCW being put on the block. What you're doing "TODAY" is nothing to brag about.

R

yellowfin
12-21-2008, 2:14 AM
Someone didn't inform Hutchens that the county is called Orange, not Nottingham.

GunSlut
12-21-2008, 3:54 AM
To top it off you have one of your key members running to this board making very inflammatory statements regarding the NRA in this state and her perceptions of the damage they caused your case and their overall worth.
R

1) I didn't come running over here, I read this forum almost every day. I even post now and then too.

2) HER!!!! Just add this to your lack of knowledge on the whole subject in general.

All of my government issued ID says MALE. Which matches my birth certificate.

If I didn't know better, I'd call that a personal attack.

BobB35
12-21-2008, 8:28 AM
I’m not invested in you failing in your efforts . . . far from it. It’s a little ironic that you would accuse me of this seeing as you've spent so much time on this forum throwing stones at another CCW "figure." Your avatar looks a little different on another CCW-related board you frequent which further highlights your “investment” in that person’s failure. When I "invest" the time to put up an animated avatar that mocks someone else or post disparaging remarks in the vast majority of the threads someone else starts or participates in then we can revisit your claim.

I've asked you in the past what benefit your group's going in front of the BOS could have. I thought that if you were taking this step you might have something interesting planned and I was considering attending your BOS meetings. You replied that there was the possibility that the BOS would manipulate the Sherriff's budget if she refused to alter her CCW policy. The fact that you assumed that there was even the remotest chance of that happening was amazing to me. There's no way that would happen. The Sheriff could sit there, listen to your public comment and just shrug you off, which, unsurprisingly she since has. Your group's members have said she's a horrible failure and that she has no real accomplishments to run on in 2010. Well, she has one very spinnable "accomplishment" now, and you’ve just handed it to her.

I’m upset that you failed as it represents a loss for the CCW effort in this state. You were successful in obtaining a fair amount of local (and some national) press coverage for your group. You did a great job getting people to show up to publicly to support you. You garnered all this attention for the CCW issuance problems in CA and then you marched into a self-created unwinnable situation and handed the Sheriff an easy victory. To top it off you have one of your key members running to this board making very inflammatory statements regarding the NRA in this state and her perceptions of the damage they caused your case and their overall worth. It could be argued that your ham-fisted attempt to "call out" the Sheriff like this in front of a body that has no real power to influence her was quite damaging in and of itself.




You don’t know me from Adam. How can you make this claim? Even if I have, as you suggest, done absolutely nothing to further the CCW agenda in my own county at least I haven’t harmed it by allowing a CLEO put her thumb in my group's eye in a very public way. How do you think other CLEOs felt when they read the current Sheriff's snarky comment which both marginalized your group and affirmed the lack of influence the supervisors whom appointed her have over her? You think maybe that was a little empowering for them?




I could easily ask you what you did YESTERDAY for the CCW cause in this state, prior to your own CCW being put on the block. What you're doing "TODAY" is nothing to brag about.

R

I agree with your assessment of the situation. The people in the OC are indignant that someone dared to take away their toy and they thought they can force the situation. I am amazed at the lack of understanding in how the system works. The Sheriff doesn't care. PC 12050 gives the sheriff the final say, end of story.....

Personally I don't think we will get Shall issue CCWs in CA from an internal measure. It will have to come from the outside, like a taxpayer version of HR 218. PC 12050 has it's origin in racial discrimination from the 20's. The way to fight it would be through a flanking movement that incorporates the civil rights movement appealing to the advocacy groups like the NAACP. Since there is no statewide group that is taking action on this issue I don't hope for much. The advocate that are there are will to debate minutiae of the law, how to get OLLs and whether CRPA or the NRA is better. This is interesting stuff but it doesn't change things.

Living in a no issue county with no chance of changing things gives me a different perspective on what "can" and "can't" be done. At this point I can only hope that the legislators from the 40 states that have "Shall issue" will step up and save the collective asses of the citizen of CA.

RomanDad
12-21-2008, 8:42 AM
I’m not invested in you failing in your efforts . . . far from it. It’s a little ironic that you would accuse me of this seeing as you've spent so much time on this forum throwing stones at another CCW "figure." Your avatar looks a little different on another CCW-related board you frequent which further highlights your “investment” in that person’s failure. When I "invest" the time to put up an animated avatar that mocks someone else or post disparaging remarks in the vast majority of the threads someone else starts or participates in then we can revisit your claim.

Any stones Ive thrown at Preston Guillory, he has earned in SPADES with his clearly ANTI- SHALL ISSUE posts on his own website. He is just another shade of the may-issue LEO only crowd, except that he would extend CCW to HIS FRIENDS and FINANCIAL SUPPORTERS. Which is no different than what we have NOW in this state. So I feel no need to kiss his rear end any more, despite the fact he has his name on 9th circuit court case. Im not sure how much of an accomplishment that really is anyway... Ernesto Miranda has his name on a SCOTUS case and he was a total loser.

As far as me "assuming" the BOS might manipulate her budget... I have ASSUMED nothing... ANYTHING I HAVE SAID HAS BEEN PASSED ON FROM FIRST HAND SOURCES... So you can take that for what you will.

The BOS meeting of the 18th was a DISASTER FOR THE SHERIFF. SHE WAS AGAIN, UNPREPARED FOR THE BOS questions, so much so that her one remaining supporter on the BOS jumped ship on her by the end of the day... We also know what the BOS had discussed doing on the evening of the 17th... As bad as the 18th was for her, it could have been MUCH, MUCH WORSE, but the BOS decided to give her one more chance.... I haven't heard that the October 17th plan is off the table... Have you? No... Because you don't even know what it was.

In August the Sheriff hoped she would sweep this issue aside with a press conference and have it behind her... That didnt work. Again, In early October, she gave her presentation to the BOS and expected to ignore the CCW issue hoping she wouldnt be questioned on it... Again she was wrong prompting the BOS meeting of the 18th. Yet she still wasnt able to answer the simple questions posed to her, again hoping her erroneous and misleading information would put it behind her forever.... Now the BOS has called for ANOTHER hearing on this in January... THIS IS NOT GOING AWAY.... And neither are we.

You somehow think we failed and shes won? WHAT UNIVERSE ARE YOU LIVING ON? The snowball is growing... Shes lost the confidence of the very people who appointed her. And not just on the CCW issue.... Her first 6 months have been an absolute disaster by any objective criteria.

As far as members of "My board" coming over here.... I DONT HAVE A "board"... At least not one that is firearms related... So thats not my problem.

sholling
12-21-2008, 8:53 AM
Really until democracy is restored to the election of sheriffs the people will continue to have zero influence on sheriffs' policies. There are many that disagree with me and think that the Gates incumbent protection law is good because it protects political insiders. I'll always disagree with any law that places an armed government force outside of civilian control, and prevents the public from replacing a power mad sheriff. Because no one that is not an insider can run against her they may as well change her title to Sheriff For Life because she's going to be there just as long as she likes.

RomanDad
12-21-2008, 9:33 AM
I agree with your assessment of the situation. The people in the OC are indignant that someone dared to take away their toy and they thought they can force the situation.


Yet another person who doesnt get it.... CCW is a "toy"? I consider it a right... And fwiw, I just picked mine up two weeks ago.