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View Full Version : ar variants, gas system length and "issues"


trinydex
12-17-2008, 11:41 PM
are there "carbine length" gas systems with ar variants? are there overgassing issues with these guns?

CHS
12-18-2008, 12:07 AM
Yes. Yes.

Josh3239
12-18-2008, 12:14 AM
are there "carbine length" gas systems with ar variants? are there overgassing issues with these guns?

Overgassing issues do exist and there are many fixes for them. The newest and most popular one is a different gas system called the midlength.

Don't let that steer you away from them. I have had 5 carbines and never had a problem with them. They are still extremely popular, are used by the US military and other nations, and are still flying off the shelves.

aplinker
12-18-2008, 12:29 AM
Overgassing issues do exist and there are many fixes for them. The newest and most popular one is a different gas system called the midlength.

Don't let that steer you away from them. I have had 5 carbines and never had a problem with them. They are still extremely popular, are used by the US military and other nations, and are still flying off the shelves.


lol

wtf?

Please, elaborate on why you should go with carbine over a mid-length and when it's appropriate.

trinydex
12-18-2008, 1:47 AM
wait so i'm not familiar with the barreling of these alternative ar15 magwell pattern calibers and what the "standard" gas length is. can someone elaborate?

ar15barrels
12-18-2008, 10:59 AM
wait so i'm not familiar with the barreling of these alternative ar15 magwell pattern calibers and what the "standard" gas length is. can someone elaborate?

have you ever seen this site:

www.ar15barrels.com

I cover operation and gas systems including diagrams of the "standards".
Go read these technical documents:
http://www.ar15barrels.com/prod/gas-systems.shtml
http://www.ar15barrels.com/prod/operation.shtml

trinydex
12-18-2008, 11:18 AM
so like 6.8, 6.5 and other "variants" have the same "standards"

ar15barrels
12-18-2008, 11:19 AM
so like 6.8, 6.5 and other "variants" have the same "standards"

the "standards" have to do with part dimensions.

Josh3239
12-18-2008, 2:04 PM
lol

wtf?

Please, elaborate on why you should go with carbine over a mid-length and when it's appropriate.

Please highlight where in my post I suggested the OP should go with the carbine "over" a midlength.

If you bothered to pay attention you'd realize my post was anything but a knock against the midlength nor was it a recommendation for the carbine. Unless you believe me saying "fear of overgassing shouldn't scare you away" is some how a knock against the midlength?

I'll try to break my post into "bite sized pieces" for you:
- There are many fixes for the problems experience in the carbine gas systems
- The most popular and best fix is the midlength gas system
- I have never had an issue with 4 of my former Carbines nor with my current 1, that said a fear of overgassing shouldn't scare you away from a carbine
- The Carbine is still used by many people in the shooting community and soldiers

So why don't you elobarate on where I said a carbine gas system is better than a midlength?

aplinker
12-18-2008, 2:39 PM
OK, piece by piece.

The implication of "don't let that steer you away from them" is that carbines are a fine choice in place of a mid-length, regardless of any other parameter. It's a de-facto endorsement of carbine gas length.

Changing the gas system isn't "new." It's popular now because it's better.

The other "carbine fixes" only treat symptoms, not the cause. It's like saying, "There's treatment for HIV now. Don't let that steer you from having unprotected sex with TJ hookers."

I'm glad your carbines work for you.

Please highlight where in my post I suggested the OP should go with the carbine "over" a midlength.

If you bothered to pay attention you'd realize my post was anything but a knock against the midlength nor was it a recommendation for the carbine. Unless you believe me saying "fear of overgassing shouldn't scare you away" is some how a knock against the midlength?

I'll try to break my post into "bite sized pieces" for you:
- There are many fixes for the problems experience in the carbine gas systems
- The most popular and best fix is the midlength gas system
- I have never had an issue with 4 of my former Carbines nor with my current 1, that said a fear of overgassing shouldn't scare you away from a carbine
- The Carbine is still used by many people in the shooting community and soldiers

So why don't you elobarate on where I said a carbine gas system is better than a midlength?

ar15barrels
12-18-2008, 2:58 PM
The other "carbine fixes" only treat symptoms, not the cause.
It's like saying, "There's treatment for HIV now. Don't let that steer you from having unprotected sex with TJ hookers."

How many times have I said that?

deja-vu.

I'm keeping the second part for future sigline material.

gemini1
12-18-2008, 3:07 PM
Okay, Deloton only sells 16" mid lenght rifle kits with heavy barrel. If I went ahead and bought the lightweight rifle kit in carbine gas lenght, is there someone in the Bay area who can convert it to mid lenght? and how much is the estimared cost?

I wanted a lightweight barrel in mid lenght but I thinks theres only two who makes them and they're a bit costly for my budget.

ar15barrels
12-18-2008, 3:12 PM
Okay, Deloton only sells 16" mid lenght rifle kits with heavy barrel. If I went ahead and bought the lightweight rifle kit in carbine gas lenght, is there someone in the Bay area who can convert it to mid lenght? and how much is the estimared cost?

I wanted a lightweight barrel in mid lenght but I thinks theres only two who makes them and they're a bit costly for my budget.

You can't convert a carbine to a mid-length, but you can convert a heavy barrel to a lightweight.
See my signature.

aplinker
12-18-2008, 3:16 PM
Okay, Deloton only sells 16" mid lenght rifle kits with heavy barrel. If I went ahead and bought the lightweight rifle kit in carbine gas lenght, is there someone in the Bay area who can convert it to mid lenght? and how much is the estimared cost?

I wanted a lightweight barrel in mid lenght but I thinks theres only two who makes them and they're a bit costly for my budget.

Understand, this conversation is primarily for people looking to buy.

You can't change, since where the gas port is drilled is what determines the gas system. Any conversion wouldn't be worth it.

If you already bought a carbine, then just run it. When the barrel burns out, get a mid-length (that's the only real difference). If you have issues, address them (heavier buffer, stronger extractor, etc.). It's also a good idea to keep a spare bolt (MPT/MPId) on hand, if you're doing any shooting or plan to be in a situation where you'll need your rifle.

A lot of this is for people who use their rifle a lot (competitors, LE, carbine courses, etc.).

Bimmer2
12-18-2008, 3:17 PM
I wanted a lightweight barrel in mid lenght but I thinks theres only two who makes them and they're a bit costly for my budget.

CMMG makes one. I got one last summer for about $500.

That'll be cheaper than having a heavy barrel turned down to lightweight profile.

aplinker
12-18-2008, 3:20 PM
How many times have I said that?

deja-vu.

I'm keeping the second part for future sigline material.

;) Apparently not enough for everyone, but enough for those who care.

Bimmer2
12-18-2008, 3:28 PM
Please, elaborate on why you should go with carbine over a mid-length and when it's appropriate.

AFAIK, carbine gas is better for barrels shorter than 14.5". If somebody here can actually build a SBR or pistol, then carbine length gas would be the way to go.

Otherwise, mid-length isn't a "fix" for a carbine length gas system, it's a totally different system.

aplinker
12-18-2008, 3:40 PM
AFAIK, carbine gas is better for barrels shorter than 14.5". If somebody here can actually build a SBR or pistol, then carbine length gas would be the way to go.

Otherwise, mid-length isn't a "fix" for a carbine length gas system, it's a totally different system.

;) I know.

This conversation is in reference to minimum CA-legal rifle barrels - 14.5-16".

The comment was intended for him to defend his position about when it would be appropriate - I was trying to give him the out that SBRs can and should run carbines.

gemini1
12-18-2008, 3:45 PM
Understand, this conversation is primarily for people looking to buy

Yes sir, I am looking to buy/build, just waiting for parts to starts showing up again at reasonable price.

CMMG makes one. I got one last summer for about $500.

Is this the cost for a rifle kit or complete upper only?

ar15barrels
12-18-2008, 3:50 PM
Is this the cost for a rifle kit or complete upper only?

Upper only.

CHS
12-18-2008, 3:53 PM
Okay, Deloton only sells 16" mid lenght rifle kits with heavy barrel. If I went ahead and bought the lightweight rifle kit in carbine gas lenght, is there someone in the Bay area who can convert it to mid lenght? and how much is the estimared cost?

I wanted a lightweight barrel in mid lenght but I thinks theres only two who makes them and they're a bit costly for my budget.

Don't do that. It's prohibitively expensive.

Just get a gov. profile CMMG midlength. 600$.

aplinker
12-18-2008, 4:32 PM
Don't do that. It's prohibitively expensive.

Just get a gov. profile CMMG midlength. 600$.

I'd rather have lightweight than gov't, but now we're just splitting hairs. :)