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View Full Version : rebuild 30 round mag to 20 round mag?


Wink
12-15-2008, 8:37 PM
Im sure Ill get flamed for asking this question, but I have searched, and read for hours. I sure hope I have not missed this if it has all ready been answered.

I know that I can rebuild my old damaged mags no problem, but can you legally rebuild a 30 round mag into a 20 round mag. I dont see why this would be a problem at all, and I know the whole burden of proof thing. I was just wandering about the legalities of doing so.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

frigginchi
12-15-2008, 8:41 PM
Why?

Wink
12-15-2008, 8:48 PM
Because I have plenty of 30 rounders, and i really like the look of the pmag 20 rounders.

C.G.
12-15-2008, 8:54 PM
Why?

For bench rest, 20 rounders generally are less in the way.

iBlake
12-15-2008, 9:30 PM
Because I have plenty of 30 rounders, and i really like the look of the pmag 20 rounders.

So you're trying to physically change the length of your 30 rounders to the length of 20 rounders?

Wink
12-15-2008, 9:42 PM
No, I want to get a 20 round body, and rebuild my mag.

Maybe I have not been clear. I have a bunch of 30 round mags. I really like the look of 20 round pmags. Im sure there is no problem in buying some 20 round rebuild kits, and converting some of the 30s into 20s. There are some here who have all the answers, and was wondering the legality of doing so.

Wink
12-15-2008, 9:44 PM
Please chime in, if you do know for sure.

Fate
12-15-2008, 9:48 PM
That's legal. Both are >10 rounds.

One is not more "evil" than another as they both hold at least 11...and everyone knows that 11th bullet is the unleashing of Armageddon.

Jpach
12-15-2008, 9:49 PM
There should be nothing illegal about doing that, a hi-cap is a hi-cap and all you are doing is rebuilding a legally owned 30rd mag into a 20 rounder. I say go for it.

dchang0
12-15-2008, 9:51 PM
Wooo... that's a really good question! What constitutes a "pre-ban magazine?" Is it just the magazine body? (Sorta like how a stripped lower is a "firearm.") Or is it the parts--the buttplate, the spring, and follower? (Sorta like saying a LPK is a "firearm.")

Personally, I think it's the capacity, so no, it would not be legal to "manufacture" a 20rnd magazine out of any parts, whether they be 30rnd pre-ban or 10rnd post-ban, but hey, I'm no legal expert.

Exposed
12-15-2008, 9:52 PM
Ok, so, you have plenty of 30 round preban perfectly legal to own aluminum mags, right? You want to take the springs out of those and put them in a 20 round Pmag body along with floor plates and followers and still wonder if the waould count as your preban 30 round mags simply rebuilt into 20 round mags using the pmag body from a rebuild kit to convert them. Is this what you mean?

NeoWeird
12-15-2008, 9:54 PM
Once a high cap, always a high cap. You can replace, repair, or modify ANY part in your magazine so long as no new high caps are built and also the newly modified high cap must still function in the gun it was originally designed for. So thechnically speaking, you could take an 11 round AR-15 magazine and replace parts to get a Beta C-Mag. Inversely, you could convert a Beta C-Mag to an 11 rounder. You can NOT convert a Beta C-Mag into 5 different 20 round magazines, nor can you convert 5 different 20 round magazines into 1 Beta C-Mag. Capacity does NOT have to stay the same, only the quantity of seperate high capacity magazines that you have, and again they MUST still function in the gun they were originally designed for. A good example is Uzi mags. If you owned a billion Uzi mags at the time of the ban, and you welded a block onto one of them so you could use it in a 9mm AR-15 build, you have now created a NEW high capacity magazine and you broke the low. If you took EVERY Uzi magazine you had and milled a slot into their body so the magazine catch on an AR-15 equiped with a mag block would catch it, you did not create any new magazines. The difference being that while both can be used in a 9mm AR-15 when you welded the block onto the Uzi magazine you removed it's ability to be used in an Uzi and in the wording of the law created a NEW high capacity magazine. By simply milling the slot, their original function is not altered.

So to summarize, yes, you can legally swap out bodies on any of your high capacity magazines to make 20 rounders as long as they still function in their oiriginal gun.

Wink
12-15-2008, 9:55 PM
One more question. Since I have never rebuilt any 20s. Do they use the same followers as the 30s? Right now I allready have the magpul anti tilts in my 30s. Should these be ok in the 20s. or do I need to order more followers also?

Wink
12-15-2008, 9:58 PM
Neowierd, thank you very much for your answer. Do you have a response to my second question?

NeoWeird
12-15-2008, 9:58 PM
Wooo... that's a really good question! What constitutes a "pre-ban magazine?" Is it just the magazine body? (Sorta like how a stripped lower is a "firearm.") Or is it the parts--the buttplate, the spring, and follower? (Sorta like saying a LPK is a "firearm.")

Personally, I think it's the capacity, so no, it would not be legal to "manufacture" a 20rnd magazine out of any parts, whether they be 30rnd pre-ban or 10rnd post-ban, but hey, I'm no legal expert.

There is no Pre/Post/Anything ban in California. It's either registered and.or legally owned, or it's not. You can have legally owned high capacity magazine made 30 seconds ago and you can be in posession of illegal magazines made 200 years ago. Date of manufacture means nothing in California. What matters is did you own it in the state at the time of the ban. If that's the case then you are legally allowed to own it in any form. If you lose, sell, destroy, blow up, etc a magazine then it's gone. If you blow it up and you take the destroyed magazine home to rebuild it, you're still fine. If your gun is stolen you aren't allowed a 'freebe' to go out and illegally import magazines o you can get back to your starting number.

You either own it and are reparing/replacing parts or you don't. Dates on the side of the magazine, or any other part, mean nothing in California.

ohsmily
12-15-2008, 9:59 PM
Wooo... that's a really good question! What constitutes a "pre-ban magazine?" Is it just the magazine body? (Sorta like how a stripped lower is a "firearm.") Or is it the parts--the buttplate, the spring, and follower? (Sorta like saying a LPK is a "firearm.")

Personally, I think it's the capacity, so no, it would not be legal to "manufacture" a 20rnd magazine out of any parts, whether they be 30rnd pre-ban or 10rnd post-ban, but hey, I'm no legal expert.

Good thing we aren't relying on you for information.

To the OP, it is legal to replace any and all parts of your legally owned high capacity magazines. Changing capacity (by replacing the magazine body with a different high capacity magazine body) is fine.

NeoWeird
12-15-2008, 10:01 PM
One more question. Since I have never rebuilt any 20s. Do they use the same followers as the 30s? Right now I allready have the magpul anti tilts in my 30s. Should these be ok in the 20s. or do I need to order more followers also?

I've never tried to switch from one to the other; I've always been happy with the 20s and 30s that I have to not need to. That said, I am almost entirely positive that they use a different follower. You might be able to get a 30 rounder to work in a 20 rounder body, but it will probably require slightl modification. I remember hearing a while back that an unmodified 30 rounder follower in a 20 rounder body can limit capacity and some followers can inhibit travel as they have angled floors to help in the curve, which can cause one side to push more and bind in the straight 20 rounder body.

I have NO experience with MagPul magazines so I can't help you on that one.

dchang0
12-15-2008, 10:02 PM
Okay, so, if I owned a complete set of parts prior to the time of the ban, I could then assemble them today into a legal hi-capacity magazine?

ohsmily: Hey, I said wasn't a legal expert, didn't I?

NeoWeird
12-15-2008, 10:05 PM
Okay, so, if I owned a complete set of parts prior to the time of the ban, I could then assemble them today into a legal hi-capacity magazine?

Let me ask you a question to answer your question.

Are parts a magazine? No. So no, you could not, as you did not own a magazine at the time of the ban. Assembling your parts, even if owned in the state with serial nubmers and photo documentation proving they were here the whole time, would be a felony under California law.

dchang0
12-15-2008, 10:10 PM
Ah, good answer. I understand the situation now. I think there may have been some confusion over the word "manufacture." When I put "manufacture" in double-quotes, what I meant was to "personally assemble" (in addition to the traditional understanding of the word "manufacture").

Using "manufacture" in this context, my original statement is mostly correct--in that you cannot assemble a hi-cap magazine out of separated parts. What you and ohsmily are saying is that it is possible to "REbuild" or "repair" or "modify" a hi-cap magazine legally owned prior to the ban into yet another legally-owned hi-cap magazine, which I did not know was legal.

Neoweird: thanks for the clarification.

ohsmily
12-15-2008, 10:13 PM
What you and ohsmily are saying is that it is possible to "REbuild" or "repair" or "modify" a hi-cap magazine legally owned prior to the ban into yet another legally-owned hi-cap magazine.

Yes. As long as you aren't making an additional magazine. Meaning, you start with one, and you end with one (regardless of how many parts you change on it).

NeoWeird
12-15-2008, 10:17 PM
No, you clearly don't understand.

Taking parts and assembling them into a magazine that holds more than 10 rounds is "manufacturing" in California. It's illegal.

Taking one magazine apart so you can assemble it into another magazine is illegal also.

The ONLY thing that is legal is repairing and replacing parts. You can't repair a worn AR-15 magazine into a Glock magazine. You can replace the aluminum body of your AR-15 magazine with the body of an AR-15 Beta C-Mag body since it still functions in the same gun.

The bottom line is you either owned it or you didn't. At the time of the ban, if you owned 1 AR-15 11+ magazine, you can legally have ONE and ONLY ONE AR-15 magazine right now that holds more than 10 rounds and that is only if you still have that magazine in your posession. If you sell you SP-1 to your buddy in Mississippi and sell your one 11+ magazine with it, you can't buy another AR down the line and get another 11+ magazine and still be legal.

It's a very simple concept. Look in your gun supplies right now. How many magazine are in there that hold more than 10 rounds? That's how many you can EVER own in the state, and only for those guns that take those magazines, without getting proper permit or being exmpt.

So if there are none in there, you can never have any without jumping through some hoops.

dchang0
12-15-2008, 10:28 PM
Huh? Oh, more confusion over terminology/wording. I should have said: "What you and ohsmily are saying is that it is possible to "REbuild" or "repair" or "modify" a ONE hi-cap magazine legally owned prior to the ban into yet another ONE legally-owned hi-cap magazine that functions in the same gun.

Sorry, that one misunderstanding took a bit longer to figure out. When I said "yet another," I did not mean "an additional" magazine.

Apologies, and thank you both for your clarifications!

Cali-V
12-15-2008, 10:40 PM
So dose the 11+ capacity concept mean, I can re-build a one of my 30 round AR mags to a C-mag 100 round drum?

NeoWeird
12-15-2008, 10:44 PM
So dose the 11+ capacity concept mean, I can re-build a one of my 30 round AR mags to a C-mag 100 round drum?

Whether it's 11 rounds or a billion rounds doesn't change the fact that it's a high cap. It's like asking if you can take off the muzzle brake on your registered AR-15 to put a flash suppressor on it. Making it "more evil" doesn't change the fact that it is still a high capcaity magazine.

As long as you don't manufacture a new magazine (ie you end up with more high cap magazines than you started with) and those magazines still function in the gun they were designed or redesigned for at the time of the ban, then you are still legal.

sorensen440
12-15-2008, 10:49 PM
Yes its legal as you are not manufacturing a high capacity magazine

Wink
12-15-2008, 10:50 PM
Does anyone have an answer to my question in post #13

NeoWeird
12-15-2008, 10:57 PM
I answered it in post 19. You might be able to get them to work by modifying them, but 20 rounders and 30 rounders use different followers.

aplinker
12-16-2008, 12:34 AM
One more question. Since I have never rebuilt any 20s. Do they use the same followers as the 30s? Right now I allready have the magpul anti tilts in my 30s. Should these be ok in the 20s. or do I need to order more followers also?

I have some standard 20s with Magpuls. I lost 1 round of capacity, but they work. I never really thought about is, since I download by one anyways.

I don't have them in front of me, but I can hypothesize that the reason you lose capacity in a 20 and not a 30 is the stack of spring wire in a 30 is what stops the follower, but in a 20 all the coils fit in the legs of the follower, so it's the follower bottoming out.

Fate
12-16-2008, 10:35 AM
I answered it in post 19. You might be able to get them to work by modifying them, but 20 rounders and 30 rounders use different followers.
They use the same floorplates though. Work from there.

bohoki
12-16-2008, 12:59 PM
if it holds 11 it is the same as if it holds 100

WHTXJ89
12-16-2008, 1:57 PM
sorry if im thread jacking but since we are on this topic, ive got some 20 rounders that i owened before 2000 but the housings are all banged up and cant load more than 13-15 rounds. what i wanted to know is, if and where can i purchase just the housing for these mags?

Wink
12-16-2008, 3:13 PM
Thanks guys for all of your answers. Ill order the 20s and if i need to modify the followers I will. If not well thats even better. Once again thanks, and maybe someday Ill be able to help someone out with thier questions.