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View Full Version : What separates a $500 EoTech sight from a $100 red dot sight?


missiontrails
12-14-2008, 9:23 PM
What should I know before I buy a red dot sight for my flat top AR?

Jicko
12-14-2008, 9:34 PM
EOTech is not $500. Same technology can be have for $200-ish Bushnell.

$100 red-dots are for airsoft....

dchang0
12-14-2008, 9:48 PM
There are probably three reasons to have an Eotech over a red dot:

1) Faster dot acquisition than a regular red dot--the O-ring "donut of death" is very easy for your eye to catch as you bring your gun up, and it leads you to the center dot quicker than if you're just hunting for a tiny red dot all alone.

2) The Eotech is the only sight I know of with a 1MOA center red dot. The next smallest is the 2MOA C-More red dot sight module.

3) The donut itself can be used for aiming--for super-close range work, the bottom of the donut can be used for aiming, especially for PS90 owners who have a super-high sight-over-bore.

Cons:

1) Worst is battery life--Eotechs eat batteries for breakfast, lunch and dinner.

2) The reticle is fuzzy-looking without the 3X or 4X magnifiers. With the magnifier, it's really sharp, a benefit of the holographic technology.

Bill92869
12-14-2008, 11:26 PM
I agree with dchang0's "pros" but not his "cons". The bottom-line (in my opinion) is the Eotech or Aimpoint are what you put on a weapon that you might have to rely on to save your life, period. The cheap Chinese import "knock-offs" are too much a temptation to resist, I know I have half a dozen of them. They work fairly well on my .22's and airsofts. They have never, repeat never held up on my AR or any center fire weapon. You will no doubt get responses from others that tout how they have had 100% success with this or that sight. Maybe they have. I haven't and neither have most others. As an older person now, I can fully appreciate the wisdom of time, especially this one: "You only pay once for quality".

p.s. How many Chinese knock-offs are in use by active military in the field? How many Eotech and Aimpoints are in use? Ever wonder why?

Josh
12-14-2008, 11:41 PM
Cons:

1) Worst is battery life--Eotechs eat batteries for breakfast, lunch and dinner.

2) The reticle is fuzzy-looking without the 3X or 4X magnifiers. With the magnifier, it's really sharp, a benefit of the holographic technology.

if the reticle is fuzzy there is a good chance that you either are focusing on it and not the target or you have a vision problem.

To answer the original post, the price difference mostly buys you durability and peace of mind.

The eotech and aimpoints will take far more abuse and work under a wider range of conditions vs the lower priced options.

For a range gun or just having fun it doesnt matter.

ke6guj
12-14-2008, 11:47 PM
if the reticle is fuzzy there is a good chance that you either are focusing on it and not the target or you have a vision problem.
I've heard that us guys with astigmatisms will see a fuzzy reticle.



The reticle is fuzzy/ has a 'halo' effect/ has more than one reticle:
The reticle is naturally pixilated and the outer circle will appear to be made up of many small dots. The center circle will still be distinguishable as one dot.


Lower the brightness level of the reticle. This fault is generally caused by the reticle brightness being too high. The reticle is not designed to be so bright as to block the target.
The reticle is projected onto your target plane. You must focus on it like you would any other object at that distance. Do NOT focus on the sight housing like other reflex sights; focus on your target. The outer ring is designed to be a reference to center, similar to a ghost ring.
If you wear corrective lenses for nearsightedness, you will require them to see the reticle in focus as it is projected onto the target plane. If you wear bifocals or have astigmatism, you may see a distorted reticle.
Check with others who have used the sight, and compare what you see to ensure it is not your focal acuity prior to turning the sight in for repair.
Contact Repair & Service.

aplinker
12-14-2008, 11:55 PM
I've heard that us guys with astigmatisms will see a fuzzy reticle.

It's not just that, it's the result of using coherent light. You get fringing from interference.

I used to love EOTech, but after having issues myself and witnessing lots of problems had by others, I wouldn't recommend them.

Aimpoint, on the other hand, I can't say enough good things about.

The EOTech technology is unique vs. others out there (it uses a laser and diffraction grating to create the image).

Airsoft vs. the real thing (both Aimpoint and EOTech): it's all about reliability.

nrakid88
12-15-2008, 12:02 AM
I wish i didnt have astigmatism in both eyes... that Eotech sounds like such a cool idea. I'll look through one some day and see how bad the blurring is.

Josh3239
12-15-2008, 12:03 AM
As long as EoTech's have power they will keep on working. Plus I don't believe any red dot sight can beat the reticle.

http://www.binocularsbestbuy.com/Shared/Images/EOTech/EOxxx-EOTech-Holosight-Broken-Window.jpg

aplinker
12-15-2008, 12:05 AM
As long as EoTech's have power they will keep on working. Plus I don't believe any red dot sight can beat the reticle.

http://www.binocularsbestbuy.com/Shared/Images/EOTech/EOxxx-EOTech-Holosight-Broken-Window.jpg


Except battery terminal connections, overheating and electronics issues have caused serious issues - not broken screens.

BP88
12-15-2008, 12:39 AM
Go with an Aimpoint. Trust me.

You will experience 0 issues guaranteed.

Maddog5150
12-15-2008, 1:41 AM
p.s. How many Chinese knock-offs are in use by active military in the field? How many Eotech and Aimpoints are in use? Ever wonder why?

They put a bid lower than the chinese? ;)

quickcf
12-15-2008, 1:42 AM
Go with an Aimpoint. Trust me.

You will experience 0 issues guaranteed.

Where can I find one?

Juicymeat
12-15-2008, 2:37 AM
Opticsplanet is a reliable source for new ones. AR15's EE and the market place works as well. Be wary of fakepoints and clones trying to be passed off as the real deal. Use this thread as a reference:

http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=18&t=367860&page=1

I paid 280 for a used Aimpoint M2 a year ago. I would not go back to EOTech again if given the choice.

Josh3239, the reticle on the EOTech is a bit much for me, lots of stuff in the way. As other's have put it, the reticle is too "busy". The simple and bright dot of an Aimpoint is IMO a far simpler and better system.

As far as battery life goes, I can attest to EOTech's not having great battery life. My version used the N-type batteries but if you get the AA (ie 552 or 512) versions, you'll have a bit better battery life, but nothing compared to the thousands of hours of an Aimpoint.

Solidsnake87
12-15-2008, 8:47 AM
Depends on the application. The cheap stuff is great for airsoft or rimfire. Battery life, durability, and quality construction are the main diffs between cheap and high end. I've used them all and like the higher quality stuff better since excellent warraty service accompanies them. If ur cheapo dot dies, ur better of buying new.

I had an Eotech crap out on me once. It was an older model that was "the store window model" for a few years and sold to me as "new". The batteries were never changed and when they expired, they corroded the site's internals. Since I bought it "new" as the original customer, they replaced my site with the newest model at no charge besides shipping.

I've also forgotten to turn off my Aimpoints a few times and have comes back a week or two later and its still bright as new! :D No cheapo does that!

dchang0
12-15-2008, 8:49 AM
if the reticle is fuzzy there is a good chance that you either are focusing on it and not the target or you have a vision problem.

I was referring to the "pixelation" that ke6guj was kind enough to provide the term for... But yes, there are complaints from people with vision problems about double-reticles, and other fuzziness.

dreyna14
12-15-2008, 9:02 AM
In actual use, there is no real difference between Eotechs and cheap red dots. If I was going to combat, I'd go with the more expensive stuff which will be environmentally sealed and be tested to withstand the punishment. But for typical range use, even a cheap BSA red dot from Walmart works excellent. I had one on my AR for a few weeks and it was very accurate out to 300+ yards and held zero just fine. The only problem with the cheaper stuff is battery life. And this is mainly because of the use of small button cell batteries. Other than that, highly recommended.

savage1
12-15-2008, 9:08 AM
I wish i didnt have astigmatism in both eyes... that Eotech sounds like such a cool idea. I'll look through one some day and see how bad the blurring is.

I have an astigmatism in both eyes. I have no problems with the reticle when wearing contacts. Could not tell you how it is with glasses, I have never checked. I would try one first, just to make sure you like it but don't discount the eotech just becuase of your astigmatism. I own both tan aimpoint and eotech. I like the eotech for faster target aquisition. I (knock on wood) have never had a problem with my eotech and it is a newer model 557. I've had the same batteries in it for about the last year, YMMV.

Jicko
12-15-2008, 9:08 AM
Except battery terminal connections, overheating and electronics issues have caused serious issues - not broken screens.

That's why you'd need BUIS! :D

Learn to use them, and learn to have a back up plan....

I enjoyed my EOTech, but if it got ANY issue, I had learnt to deploy and use my BUIS quickly and effectively.

brando
12-15-2008, 9:10 AM
The main things that will separate a cheap optic from a quality is durability and precision. If you're risking your life with your weapon then these should be top concerns. Quality optics tend to take a beating and hold zero better than cheaper alternatives. However, if you're just plinking at the local range then by all means save some money and get a cheap optic.

bobfried
12-15-2008, 9:12 AM
Except battery terminal connections, overheating and electronics issues have caused serious issues - not broken screens.

+1000

I don't know how many times I've seen that as somehow a selling point for the Eotech's. That's like saying the seat belts will work on a Daewoo even when it get's hit; as long as your willing to deal with a car that will not start occasionally, break down intermittently and needs to have it's battery changed weekly. And yes that is only inherent in a few Daewoo's, but if it was your only car and your life depended on it you'd be smart to pay a wee bit more for a Honda.

Go Aimpoint T-1!

PIRATE14
12-15-2008, 9:18 AM
What's the difference bwtn a 100 optic and a 500 dollar optic.....besides the 400 bucks....

One is a toy....

The other is an OPTIC for a rifle.....

EOTECH....or AIMPOINT.....

Pers...I go Aimpoint....

But we sell a ton of EOTECHs....

Peashooter
12-15-2008, 9:21 AM
Does anybody have problems seeing the reticle in bright daylight with the Eotech?

dchang0
12-15-2008, 9:35 AM
Does anybody have problems seeing the reticle in bright daylight with the Eotech?

Absolutely not, but that's not a problem for Aimpoint or C-More either... They are all bright enough to see easily in bright daylight.

Fate
12-15-2008, 9:39 AM
Beware buying used Aimpoints. Those labeled as follows are US Government Property:
CompM2 ###### (# = serial number)
Made in Sweden

I confirmed this via a phone call to the head of Customer Relations and Sales a few months ago.

And as Government Property, they're illegal to buy/sell on the free/black market. AR15.com has even had individuals post about being contacted and having their Aimpoints confiscated by the DoD. Now whether or not that's going to happen if you buy one, hard to tell. But buying an Aimpoint that's been stolen from a frontline soldier by a REMF is pretty bad karma.

Clodbuster
12-15-2008, 11:48 AM
Since when does shelling out a hundred bucks for an optic make the optic a "toy"? Attaching the word "mil-spec" or "used by the military" to anything adds huge profit margins to the mfg., but it does not necessarily make it a better more reliable product than something that costs less.


Clod


What's the difference bwtn a 100 optic and a 500 dollar optic.....besides the 400 bucks....

One is a toy....

The other is an OPTIC for a rifle.....

EOTECH....or AIMPOINT.....

Pers...I go Aimpoint....

But we sell a ton of EOTECHs....

Alaric
12-15-2008, 12:05 PM
Does anybody have problems seeing the reticle in bright daylight with the Eotech?

Never had a problem, and I shoot in desert brightness with my Eotech 512 regularly.

Did you try adjusting the brightness? The reticle should be just barely bright enough to see, without interfering with seeing your target.

trinydex
12-15-2008, 12:35 PM
There are probably three reasons to have an Eotech over a red dot:

1) Faster dot acquisition than a regular red dot--the O-ring "donut of death" is very easy for your eye to catch as you bring your gun up, and it leads you to the center dot quicker than if you're just hunting for a tiny red dot all alone.

2) The Eotech is the only sight I know of with a 1MOA center red dot. The next smallest is the 2MOA C-More red dot sight module.

3) The donut itself can be used for aiming--for super-close range work, the bottom of the donut can be used for aiming, especially for PS90 owners who have a super-high sight-over-bore.

Cons:

1) Worst is battery life--Eotechs eat batteries for breakfast, lunch and dinner.

2) The reticle is fuzzy-looking without the 3X or 4X magnifiers. With the magnifier, it's really sharp, a benefit of the holographic technology.

the reticle is only fuzzy if you focus on it. if you focus on the target then the reticle should brighten up substantially. you also have to have a target to focus on, looking at a white wall with not light isn't going to help a lot.

one actual con of the eotech is that people with mild astygmatism or other eye problems that their optometrist does not bother to correct with prescription will see the 1 moa dot skew a couple pixels diagonally or in some other asymetric way, making it more difficult to use it as a precision "crosshair" type point.

i think one reason why the eotech is more expensive is because of waterproofing... anyone else know about this?

ldivinag
12-15-2008, 3:09 PM
dont forget the real plus of the HOLOsight of the eotech.

if you move your head around, you'll notice the reticle move around, but where ever that red dot is, that is where the bullet would go.

cheap eotech clones dont have the holographic thing.

bobfried
12-15-2008, 4:04 PM
Oh and the

DONUT OF DEATH

Is not what the Eotech has, it has a reticule. The only DOD out there belongs on the ACOG TA-11.

http://img83.imageshack.us/img83/748/item2971lghm4.jpg

dchang0
12-15-2008, 4:26 PM
Oh and the

DONUT OF DEATH

Is not what the Eotech has, it has a reticule. The only DOD out there belongs on the ACOG TA-11.

http://img83.imageshack.us/img83/748/item2971lghm4.jpg

LOL-- I thought that one's called the LOLLIPOP OF DEATH!

(Or the red chevron on BDC = CHRISTMAS TREE OF DEATH.)

M. Sage
12-15-2008, 4:39 PM
0Cons:

1) Worst is battery life--Eotechs eat batteries for breakfast, lunch and dinner.

2) The reticle is fuzzy-looking without the 3X or 4X magnifiers. With the magnifier, it's really sharp, a benefit of the holographic technology.

1) It's not that bad. The problem is when you let an EOTech sit for long periods between uses. They don't actually have an off function. Like a lot of modern electronics, they have a standby mode. It's still on, it's just in a low-power mode. I'm actually embarrassed that I didn't figure that one out right away - the "turn it on and off with the brightness adjust buttons" was a dead giveaway, there has to be a closed circuit. The Aimpoints are "better" in part because they actually have a rotary switch that turns them off (off meaning that there are no closed circuits).

2) Not on any EOTech I've ever looked through. Quit focusing on the reticle and it'll sharpen right up. It can get a bit fuzzy if you turn it up too bright, too. Make sure that it's only one or two brightness settings above invisible. It shouldn't be bright, you should be able to almost see through it, IMO. Oh, and keep both eyes open and focus on the target!

I like my Aimpoint (Comp M2) better, though. It lacks the 1MOA reticle, but big deal. Are you going to be using a 1MOA rifle/ammo combination under the optic? I won't, nor will I be needing theoretical 1 MOA accuracy - accuracy that I'm incapable of under anything but the most ideal circumstances and when the planets are properly aligned.

One reason I like the Aimpoint is because it's easier to mount it low. You can't mount an EOTech any lower than it already is, but you can get a low-rise mount that fits an Aimpoint and mount it on rifles that aren't related to the AR and still have a cheek weld. ;)

SuperSet
12-15-2008, 5:22 PM
Does anybody have problems seeing the reticle in bright daylight with the Eotech?

Have you called EOTech (L3 Communications) yet? Someone on ARFCOM had this same problem and they had to replace the laser in his unit.