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hamster
12-13-2008, 6:32 PM
http://www.midwestindustriesinc.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=category.display&category_id=185

anyone have this upper? I looked on CMMG's website and didn't see this there, and midwest industries doesn't have a price listed and i won't be able to call till monday. any opinions on this upper?

MILLITIAof1
12-13-2008, 6:33 PM
its good

shark92651
12-13-2008, 10:56 PM
It's a standard CMMG carbine with gov't profile barrel and the two-piece MI rails. I doubt they have any in stock though. I have quite a few CMMG uppers on order but they are few and very far between.

gunrun45
12-13-2008, 11:18 PM
+1 for shark92651
Looks like their standard upper with some drop on parts that you could easily put on yourself at home. Depending on the price it might be a good deal or it might now be.

aplinker
12-14-2008, 12:36 AM
yuck, carbine gas.

Get a mid-length.

MT1
12-14-2008, 1:06 AM
My carbine gas guns are flawless with thousands of rounds with only a couple ammo induced failure to feeds.

Blue Label
12-14-2008, 1:09 AM
yuck, carbine gas.

Get a mid-length.

How about a cabine piston?

aplinker
12-14-2008, 1:56 AM
My carbine gas guns are flawless with thousands of rounds with only a couple ammo induced failure to feeds.

There was once a guy in China who smoked 3 packs of cigarettes a day and lived to be 106.

So, obviously cigarettes don't cause cancer.

How about a cabine piston?

Why pay $400 for a piston when you can just drill the gas port in the right place (for free)?

Blacktail 8541
12-14-2008, 7:20 AM
If you plan on only one or two ARs, get the Mid length upper as suggested by uclaplinker. Less wear on the rifle with a mid length gas system.

oldrifle
12-14-2008, 8:14 AM
It's a standard CMMG carbine with gov't profile barrel and the two-piece MI rails. I doubt they have any in stock though. I have quite a few CMMG uppers on order but they are few and very far between.

I sent you a PM asking you when you think you might have CMMG uppers in stock. I'm about to order one from you. Thanks

shark92651
12-14-2008, 9:08 AM
I sent you a PM asking you when you think you might have CMMG uppers in stock. I'm about to order one from you. Thanks

Best thing to do is just order one on the website and it will reserve your place in line. We fill the orders in the order they come in. Be prepared for a wait though.

oldrifle
12-14-2008, 9:31 AM
Best thing to do is just order one on the website and it will reserve your place in line. We fill the orders in the order they come in. Be prepared for a wait though.

No problem. I'll go ahead and put my order in now. Thank you.

MT1
12-14-2008, 11:08 AM
There was once a guy in China who smoked 3 packs of cigarettes a day and lived to be 106.

So, obviously cigarettes don't cause cancer.


:rolleyes:

This is a mechanical object not biological - with the right combination of parts you should be able to duplicate a properly functioning carbine length gun every time, there's no mysterious magic bubble around those with systems that work.

Barbarossa
12-14-2008, 11:41 AM
No problem. I'll go ahead and put my order in now. Thank you.

What are you getting in line for?

I've been waiting on a lead time estimate and my bonus. :(

oldrifle
12-14-2008, 1:00 PM
What are you getting in line for?

I've been waiting on a lead time estimate and my bonus. :(

CMMG 16" Midlength Specter upper. Thanks to those who helped me figure out what I want/need.

I haven't gotten my bonus yet but I'm spending it now. Fortunately it's part of my regular compensation so I know I'll be getting one and roughly how much it will be. :)

hamster
12-14-2008, 2:11 PM
how would you rank these uppers? Stag, CMMG, BCM? i have a CMMG LPK, so i figure i'd get a CMMG upper, but i know they're all interchangeable. those three seem to be in my price range, i'd like to get the best for my money.

aplinker
12-14-2008, 5:21 PM
:rolleyes:

This is a mechanical object not biological - with the right combination of parts you should be able to duplicate a properly functioning carbine length gun every time, there's no mysterious magic bubble around those with systems that work.

Sure, it will function, but it won't function as well. It's subject to more recoil and harsher operation parameters. It will also be subject to a higher probability of failure.

Is there a reason you hold the carbine system near and dear?

MT1
12-14-2008, 6:58 PM
Is there a reason you hold the carbine system near and dear?

I don't any more than the other gas systems, I just feel that like any other mechanical system the finicky ones can be more difficult to make function properly, but that doesn't mean that it can't be done. Some companies or builders don't take the time to science out the combination needed and so they have a bad reputation.

aplinker
12-15-2008, 12:20 AM
I don't any more than the other gas systems, I just feel that like any other mechanical system the finicky ones can be more difficult to make function properly, but that doesn't mean that it can't be done. Some companies or builders don't take the time to science out the combination needed and so they have a bad reputation.

Sure, Colt and LMT do good work with the carbine, but why go with an inferior gas system when it costs nothing to go with something superior?

Even a perfect carbine will be hard on parts (particularly the bolt) and have harsher recoil.

PIRATE14
12-15-2008, 10:40 AM
Sure, Colt and LMT do good work with the carbine, but why go with an inferior gas system when it costs nothing to go with something superior?

Even a perfect carbine will be hard on parts (particularly the bolt) and have harsher recoil.

Reg carbines are just fine......

UCLAs mission is to convert the entire world to midlength gas system......

aplinker
12-15-2008, 12:26 PM
Reg carbines are just fine......

UCLAs mission is to convert the entire world to midlength gas system......

:shrug:

My mission is for people to buy the best they can for their money. The data and experience are there to support mid-length.

It used to be that the argument against it was lack of availability of gas tubes and, since the military doesn't use it, it can't be as good. Now, there's really no arguing that mid-length isn't superior and, since it's free, why choose otherwise?

Not to mention, you don't need to buy a heavy buffer, the extra strength extractor spring, deal with port erosion.........

Barbarossa
12-15-2008, 1:11 PM
CMMG 16" Midlength Specter upper. Thanks to those who helped me figure out what I want/need.

I haven't gotten my bonus yet but I'm spending it now. Fortunately it's part of my regular compensation so I know I'll be getting one and roughly how much it will be. :)

Damn same here. Guess I'll be in line behind you. I'm waiting for my bonus before I spend it. (Been waiting since September)

7222 Hawker
12-15-2008, 1:42 PM
:shrug:

My mission is for people to buy the best they can for their money. The data and experience are there to support mid-length.

It used to be that the argument against it was lack of availability of gas tubes and, since the military doesn't use it, it can't be as good. Now, there's really no arguing that mid-length isn't superior and, since it's free, why choose otherwise?

Not to mention, you don't need to buy a heavy buffer, the extra strength extractor spring, deal with port erosion.........

I am glad there are guys who are looking our for our best interest/buying capability. But, I have a few questions...
1. Why do some of you guys not like the carbine length? I have two that are great.

2. Having served in the USMC for two tours, the military doesn't always go for practical/best quality. (I lived in a condemned barracks for two years.)

3. Is Mid length only superior due to barrel length? My carbines are fantastic when accuracy is concerned.

Most AR manufacturers at this point are producing pretty high quality products right? If they weren't they would not be in businnes long. Thoughts?

aplinker
12-15-2008, 2:12 PM
I am glad there are guys who are looking our for our best interest/buying capability. But, I have a few questions...
1. Why do some of you guys not like the carbine length? I have two that are great.
Carbine gas ports are located close to the chamber, which means the gas pressure is higher, the cycle time is short and the dwell time is long(amount of time there's pressure in the system - a function of distance from gas port to muzzle). This means the carbine system operates with high pressure before the cartridge has had time to contract. This requires more energy (so more of that gas is needed) which is hard on the bolt. M4 armorers see about 30% bolt breakages. M16 see a few in their career.

2. Having served in the USMC for two tours, the military doesn't always go for practical/best quality. (I lived in a condemned barracks for two years.)
Always pisses me off it's such.


3. Is Mid length only superior due to barrel length? My carbines are fantastic when accuracy is concerned.
The mid-length has reduced recoil (needs less pressure to operate) and is less harsh on the parts (longer life). Accuracy is not the primary issue here.

Most AR manufacturers at this point are producing pretty high quality products right? If they weren't they would not be in businnes long. Thoughts?
It all depends on your requirements. For most users any well known maker will be sufficient. For heavy use (LE, carbine classes, competition) you will want something that can stand up to it. Some are better than others. m4carbine.net is a good resource.


my answers.

oddball
12-15-2008, 2:20 PM
I agree that midlengths have a slight advantage as far as gas characteristics and possible mechanical durability, but the carbine ain't exactly crap, IMHO.
I have some M4geries, and I love them. They are all durable, 100% trouble-free, and more accurate than my old eyes. The recoil in my carbines is not noticeably harsher than my one CMMG middy. I much prefer to shoot my LMT and BCM carbines instead (and would choose to keep 'em rather than the CMMG). But then, I don't exactly put these rifles through a lot of abuse either ;).

7222 Hawker
12-15-2008, 2:42 PM
my answers.

Thank you sir. This is why I joined CALGUNS - because there are those out there with more knowledge than me. ( And I ain't exactly a slouch.) Will take your thoughts and advice on board.

Bimmer2
12-15-2008, 3:21 PM
how would you rank these uppers? Stag, CMMG, BCM? i have a CMMG LPK, so i figure i'd get a CMMG upper, but i know they're all interchangeable. those three seem to be in my price range, i'd like to get the best for my money.

Based not on firsthand experience, but a lot of scuttlebutt on the errornet, I'd rank them BCM, CMMG, Stag. I have a CMMG.

If you want AR info, poke around M4c.net.

Pvt. Cowboy
12-15-2008, 4:02 PM
I read an entire page linked here about carbine length vs rifle length vs midlength gas systems and let my head get filled with a lot of arcane minutia about 'dwell time', 'port erosion', recoil buffer assemblies, and potential parts breakage.

I put it all together and came to the conclusion that the nut of the issue is that if you choose a carbine gas system, you risk the failure of a $37 part after 25,000 rounds.

hamster
12-15-2008, 4:45 PM
I read an entire page linked here about carbine length vs rifle length vs midlength gas systems and let my head get filled with a lot of arcane minutia about 'dwell time', 'port erosion', recoil buffer assemblies, and potential parts breakage.

I put it all together and came to the conclusion that the nut of the issue is that if you choose a carbine gas system, you risk the failure of a $37 part after 25,000 rounds.

Thank you for saving me a lot of reading! :) I think im going to go with the carbine.

doughboy334
12-15-2008, 7:05 PM
Who sells middys besides CMMG and BCM? I plan on saving up and getting a BCM middy in the future (when they're in stock), but it doesn't come with a bolt carrier group...

aplinker
12-15-2008, 7:36 PM
I read an entire page linked here about carbine length vs rifle length vs midlength gas systems and let my head get filled with a lot of arcane minutia about 'dwell time', 'port erosion', recoil buffer assemblies, and potential parts breakage.

I put it all together and came to the conclusion that the nut of the issue is that if you choose a carbine gas system, you risk the failure of a $37 part after 25,000 rounds.

Along with adding a heavy buffer, stronger extractor, etc. to get proper performance and needing to up the buffer weight as the port erodes. Round count isn't that high on bolt breakage (which is a $65 part) with even the best stuff, and most people don't buy or use Colt bolts.

Regardless, it's your money and your choice.

aplinker
12-15-2008, 7:37 PM
Who sells middys besides CMMG and BCM? I plan on saving up and getting a BCM middy in the future (when they're in stock), but it doesn't come with a bolt carrier group...

Sabre Defence & Noveske

Pvt. Cowboy
12-16-2008, 12:22 PM
Along with adding a heavy buffer, stronger extractor, etc. to get proper performance and needing to up the buffer weight as the port erodes. Round count isn't that high on bolt breakage (which is a $65 part) with even the best stuff, and most people don't buy or use Colt bolts.

Regardless, it's your money and your choice.

What gas options are available with an 11.5" barrel? That's what I bought.

aplinker
12-16-2008, 1:14 PM
What gas options are available with an 11.5" barrel? That's what I bought.

Obviously that's where a carbine gas system is appropriate.

It still has high pressure and faster cycling (which can be reduced with a heavier buffer), but it doesn't have the long dwell time.

The point is that for 14.5-16" barrels it's really best to use mid-length. You want to be around the magic 5" of barrel past the gas port.

landser1102
12-16-2008, 5:02 PM
Who sells middys besides CMMG and BCM? I plan on saving up and getting a BCM middy in the future (when they're in stock), but it doesn't come with a bolt carrier group...

Sabre Defense got mid lengths also.