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ImprezaSTI
12-13-2008, 4:25 PM
I'm thinking about acquiring an AR-15 that is OLL and has a bullet button but was wondering if the cops or people at the range harass you. For those who've got one, can you please share your experiences? Also, has anyone ever been arrested by an ignorant cop who doesn't know about the legal configurations of AR-15s in California?

MILLITIAof1
12-13-2008, 4:32 PM
get one, just be smart about having it.

40caldeserteagle
12-13-2008, 4:44 PM
I'm thinking about acquiring an AR-15 that is OLL and has a bullet button but was wondering if the cops or people at the range harass you. For those who've got one, can you please share your experiences? Also, has anyone ever been arrested by an ignorant cop who doesn't know about the legal configurations of AR-15s in California?

You've been here how long ?

David F.

Desert_AIP
12-13-2008, 4:44 PM
I usually find it's a good education tool at the range.

Just yesterday a guy asked "What is that" pointing to my new 18" 6.8 SPR.
I explained the rifle and it's config including the bullet button, I showed him how you need a tool to drop the mag.
He asked "Is that California legal?"
I said "Yes. As long as it has the locked magazine and you only use 10 round magazines, you can have all the "evil features" you want.
We talked a little more and I think the education was worthwhile.

ImprezaSTI
12-13-2008, 4:49 PM
You've been here how long ?

David F.

Yeah I know I sound like a newb but I've only been into handguns and just recently got interested in AR's.

ktom300
12-13-2008, 5:05 PM
I was at Chabot (Oakland) yesterday with my G19 and 10/22. There were 3 people shooting AR15's and something I didn't recognize. None were hassled by anyone. The training range next door was full of cop (most of them overweight) and they said nothing.
Can't wait to finish my first AR build and take it out.

Blacktail 8541
12-13-2008, 5:19 PM
Although OLLs are not 100% known in the leo community, they are getting there. The odds are you will not have any problem with one if it is configured properly.

haodoken
12-13-2008, 5:39 PM
I'm thinking about acquiring an AR-15 that is OLL and has a bullet button but was wondering if the cops or people at the range harass you. For those who've got one, can you please share your experiences? Also, has anyone ever been arrested by an ignorant cop who doesn't know about the legal configurations of AR-15s in California?

I would prefer to say some of my collegues are "uninformed" vs "ignorant". I, as well as many of my fellow partners do not have the ENTIRE Penal, Vehicle, H&S, B&P Codes memorized verbatim. If you know anyone who has, please let me know, since I would like to shake their hands. Many LEOs are just not interested in firearms outside work. To many, it's just a tool to accomplish their work. On the other hand, I am a fellow Calgunner which means I'm a gun nut like the rest of you and often keep up with the laws regarding them. :D

I personally have no issues with OLLs. I have 10+ legally configured OLLs and often explain the legalities to my co-workers. Also the Sacramento PD memo has been extremely helpful in educating others in LE. I have given the memo out and have been met with positive results.

Personally, what would draw my attention is people do the following:

1) Someone who has an OLLs which is properly configured with a BB.
2) They insert a 30rd magazine (which creates an illegal AW) and "let 'er rip". (Somewhat obvious since they keep shooting after 10rds)
3) They then quickly drop their hi-cap mag using their tool and insert another 30rd magazine.

Range staff is responsible for their range. If you don't like their rules you'll have to find another one more to your liking. But most seem to be okay with OLLs. I go to Burro Canyon and they don't seem to have a problem with OLLs.

Just my $0.02.

Arkalius
12-13-2008, 5:50 PM
One thing to remember is that many cops are people just like you and me. Some of them have their own OLLs and are as happy about being able to own one as you and I are. Most of them have no interest in harassing good people, especially when off duty.

They are perfectly legal to own and use. If you are worried about being harassed by an uniformed law enforcement agent, then maybe having the text of the laws that shows why it is legal with you is not a bad idea?

hoffmang
12-13-2008, 5:53 PM
I don't think you have to worry when PD's are publishing things like this (http://www.hoffmang.com/firearms/Sacramento-PD-OLL_Training_Bulletin-2008-11-18.pdf).

-Gene

homerm14
12-13-2008, 6:10 PM
I was at Chabot (Oakland) yesterday with my G19 and 10/22. There were 3 people shooting AR15's and something I didn't recognize. None were hassled by anyone. The training range next door was full of cop (most of them overweight) and they said nothing.
Can't wait to finish my first AR build and take it out.

Maybe they were to fat and lazy to walk over there. Or maybe they did'nt give a rats *** what you and others were doing. Probably just fat and lazy.:sleeping:

Gp100
12-13-2008, 7:13 PM
Last thanksgiving,I told my brother In-law(SoCal)police officer about OLL rifles
and showed mine, He had no Idea they where legal,I told him everything.
He is buying a colt AR15 30 round mag for work and can shoot it at the range,
so what Im saying if you look clean cut other police will think your a cop, range masters always offer me a LEO discount. If you don't fell comfortable at the range go to your national forest shooting area, It cost 10 for a adventure pass and you can take 5-8 people with you,yes you have to drive on a dirt road but you can shoot anything you want, TV's,sodas,pots and pans, anything there is no one to watch you! I even shot targets out of my truck while some one was driving it slowly, it's pure freedom so check out your national parks.

tombinghamthegreat
12-13-2008, 7:20 PM
It is no big deal, i have taken my saiga rifle to the range without any issues it it looks like an AK with a detachable mag.

slappomatt
12-13-2008, 7:27 PM
I don't think you have to worry when PD's are publishing things like this (http://www.hoffmang.com/firearms/Sacramento-PD-OLL_Training_Bulletin-2008-11-18.pdf).

-Gene

the funny thing is that last picture where they say

"At first glance the rifle below appears to be an assault rifle. However, it is a completely legal
firearm in California. The rifle is an off-list, semiautomatic, centerfire rifle with a telescoping
stock, pistol grip, a fixed 10 round magazine and overall length of 31 inches."

they then show a picture of a 22 cal RIMFIRE rifle with a DETACHABLE mag. lol. oh well at least they are the ones enforcing these horible laws....

mecam
12-13-2008, 7:31 PM
I was at Chabot (Oakland) yesterday with my G19 and 10/22. There were 3 people shooting AR15's and something I didn't recognize. None were hassled by anyone. The training range next door was full of cop (most of them overweight) and they said nothing.
Can't wait to finish my first AR build and take it out.

Don't tell me overweight SWAT... My goodness, what agency was that?

ImprezaSTI
12-13-2008, 7:36 PM
Last thanksgiving,I told my brother In-law(SoCal)police officer about OLL rifles
and showed mine, He had no Idea they where legal,I told him everything.
He is buying a colt AR15 30 round mag for work and can shoot it at the range,
so what Im saying if you look clean cut other police will think your a cop, range masters always offer me a LEO discount. If you don't fell comfortable at the range go to your national forest shooting area, It cost 10 for a adventure pass and you can take 5-8 people with you,yes you have to drive on a dirt road but you can shoot anything you want, TV's,sodas,pots and pans, anything there is no one to watch you! I even shot targets out of my truck while some one was driving it slowly, it's pure freedom so check out your national parks.

Which National forest shooting area do you speak of?
I was reading about people going to BLM areas to shoot and there was one guy who said he was shooting in the middle of nowhere when all of a sudden 2 black SUV's raced over to his area and pulled out with their M4's and had him on the ground and arrested him. He was taken into police custody and questioned for hours as to why he was there and why he was shooting those AR's. I think he said it turned out there was some intelligence of drug dealers in the area or something like that and he was just in the wrong place at the wrong time with AR-15s! :D
That's not something I ever want to experience so I wonder if it's really worth it.

BlackonBlack
12-13-2008, 10:34 PM
I cant imagine you'll have a problem with it. It's legal according to the law. It is possible you'll come across someone uneducated that thinks it's an illegal AW but rare in my guess.

I always wondered the REAL law when it comes to good-citizen gun owners. I mean most cops are obviously in to guns and usually support gun rights.

tombinghamthegreat
12-13-2008, 10:58 PM
Which National forest shooting area do you speak of?
I was reading about people going to BLM areas to shoot and there was one guy who said he was shooting in the middle of nowhere when all of a sudden 2 black SUV's raced over to his area and pulled out with their M4's and had him on the ground and arrested him. He was taken into police custody and questioned for hours as to why he was there and why he was shooting those AR's. I think he said it turned out there was some intelligence of drug dealers in the area or something like that and he was just in the wrong place at the wrong time with AR-15s! :D
That's not something I ever want to experience so I wonder if it's really worth it.

FUD

sorensen440
12-13-2008, 11:02 PM
I have never been hassled

532Fastback
12-13-2008, 11:14 PM
The first time i took my OLL to the range, 3 off duty Sacramento PD were there shooting their new Sig .223
They messed with me a bit but they were just joking with me, they admitted they had OLLs at home as well.

532Fastback
12-13-2008, 11:18 PM
Last thanksgiving,I told my brother In-law(SoCal)police officer about OLL rifles
and showed mine, He had no Idea they where legal,I told him everything.
He is buying a colt AR15 30 round mag for work and can shoot it at the range,
so what Im saying if you look clean cut other police will think your a cop, range masters always offer me a LEO discount. If you don't fell comfortable at the range go to your national forest shooting area, It cost 10 for a adventure pass and you can take 5-8 people with you,yes you have to drive on a dirt road but you can shoot anything you want, TV's,sodas,pots and pans, anything there is no one to watch you! I even shot targets out of my truck while some one was driving it slowly, it's pure freedom so check out your national parks.

who told you can shoot anything you want?

RobT2K
12-14-2008, 12:00 AM
you can shoot anything you want, TV's,sodas,pots and pans, anything there is no one to watch you!

You are cleaning up after yourself right?
I helped at a local clean up of one of the last BLM sites it's still ok to shoot at. It's in danger of being shut down due to the amount of trash and crap out there left by people who think they can do/shoot what ever they want. There were several TVs and they weren't fun to clean up. Glass/plastic shards everywhere. I wouldn't shoot one on purpose if I knew I had to clean up after myself.

Just remember they may not be watching you at the time, but they sure as hell see the results of you being there. When I was in High school there were much closer spots to go, but they got shut down due to misuse.

ImprezaSTI
12-14-2008, 12:19 AM
First of all,I shoot a totally CA legal rifle when im in a National forest,If I want to shoot my AR full everything I go to Arizona and you can rent magazines or they will let you use them for free when you tell them your from CA. You must look up your nearest national park on the web,they should have a shooting area,and you can find if they are open that day due to fire hazard, You can shoot any type of targets you want there. Now National parks are patrolled by park rangers. Im in Southern california and have never been stopped, respectfully your story doesn't make sense unless he was breaking the law.

It's not my story. If you do a search on shooting in BLM, you'll find out about this guy. I don't know if it's true or not but it scared me from ever shooting out in the desert.

Gp100
12-14-2008, 12:48 AM
You are cleaning up after yourself right?
I helped at a local clean up of one of the last BLM sites it's still ok to shoot at. It's in danger of being shut down due to the amount of trash and crap out there left by people who think they can do/shoot what ever they want. There were several TVs and they weren't fun to clean up. Glass/plastic shards everywhere. I wouldn't shoot one on purpose if I knew I had to clean up after myself.

Just remember they may not be watching you at the time, but they sure as hell see the results of you being there. When I was in High school there were much closer spots to go, but they got shut down due to misuse.
I usually shoot 1 gallon bottles of water or old pans,yes I do clean up my mess.I never shot a TV but I was using that example to illustrate that there is
no guy on a speaker system telling you "1 shot a second,no double taps".
You are right there are old shotgun shells all over the place and that sucks.

Gp100
12-14-2008, 12:53 AM
who told you can shoot anything you want?

I maid that rule up on my own and thats what I do. Why shoot at paper when you can blow up water bottles,test helmets,phone books its a good way to see what your gun can do.

domokun
12-14-2008, 12:57 AM
I always wondered the REAL law when it comes to good-citizen gun owners. I mean most cops are obviously in to guns and usually support gun rights.

That is unless you're talking about selected SFPD officers or the small contingent of cops who do their job well but believe that nobody should be able to own a firearm at all except for the police and the military.

Gp100
12-14-2008, 1:13 AM
Which National forest shooting area do you speak of?
I was reading about people going to BLM areas to shoot and there was one guy who said he was shooting in the middle of nowhere when all of a sudden 2 black SUV's raced over to his area and pulled out with their M4's and had him on the ground and arrested him. He was taken into police custody and questioned for hours as to why he was there and why he was shooting those AR's. I think he said it turned out there was some intelligence of drug dealers in the area or something like that and he was just in the wrong place at the wrong time with AR-15s! :D
That's not something I ever want to experience so I wonder if it's really worth it.Sorry man I took this the wrong way.It is safe to shoot at national parks only in the designated areas,you can also call your nearest ranger station and ask them where you can shoot also get a adventure pass to place in your window for that day.If a person just went to any part of a national Forrest and started shooting that is highly illegal unless you are in designated wilderness area,

VW*Mike
12-14-2008, 7:49 AM
I have heard stories of COPS and Military getting harassed by BLM people. Where I go with some friends, you won't see anyone for days. I'm not worried with mine, I will keep the 10 rounders in it, and have the flow chart from here printed out and kept with the gun. It may keep me from getting arrested by a new officer who may not be familiar with the situation at best, at least educate someone.

IMO and experience, officers always try to do the right thing. The intent of the law is to use where needed, not cut and dry black or white. They are citizens, just like us. If you are up to no good, thats when you should be worried. If you are following the laws and being responsible, they may ask a few questions, but that's their job. I'm sure most of us on here follow the laws, and set a good example of gun ownership, unfortunately our good deeds, attitude, responsibility and voice seem to go unnoticed in the mainstream.

1BigPea
12-14-2008, 9:17 AM
To the OP: Never had anyone, LE, Ranger, Range Officer even take a 2nd glance while shooting my AR's. I do however when shooting somewhere have curious onlookers come up and ask about my rifles because they look so damn sexy. :D

They ask the typical questions, "how is that legal?" or "How much did it cost?" Things like that.

I do however follow the LAWS to the the T. BB installed, only 10 rnd mags, I do own plenty of 10/30's but you can tell they are not hi-cap once you shoot 10 and don't keep going. Just be smart like others have said, don't try and get away with anything illegal because it will probably bite you in the a**.

There's plenty of info on CALGUNS like the flowchart and the Sac PD memo that you can/should print out and keep with your rifle case. Print out a couple extra copies even and give them to the people asking questions to you.

Good to see another person interested in the AR game, it's a lot of fun to build, shoot, clean and have around.

my .02

norcal-ar
12-14-2008, 9:32 AM
I usually find it's a good education tool at the range.

Just yesterday a guy asked "What is that" pointing to my new 18" 6.8 SPR.
I explained the rifle and it's config including the bullet button, I showed him how you need a tool to drop the mag.
He asked "Is that California legal?"
I said "Yes. As long as it has the locked magazine and you only use 10 round magazines, you can have all the "evil features" you want.
We talked a little more and I think the education was worthwhile.

same thing happened to me and we even exchanged phone numbers. he called me a week later and had bought a complete and a stripped lower!LOL the range is the best place to educate guys on how to have a LEGAL ca compliant rifle!

norcal-ar
12-14-2008, 9:33 AM
who told you can shoot anything you want?


off topic but dana hows the fast back coming?