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View Full Version : Off list FN FAL clone?


Steve O
12-13-2008, 12:14 AM
So what are the FN FAL guys doing for off list builds?

I'm researching for an old timer friend who wants to do a build.

C.G.
12-13-2008, 12:18 AM
DSA, Imbel and Entreprise receivers are off list. Good luck in getting Imbel, six months or so wait on DSA and I am not sure about Entreprise. Best place to check out:
http://www.falfiles.com

shooterdave
12-13-2008, 12:55 AM
your best bet at this point would be entreprise it's local and the wait isn't TOO long plus your supporting a local business. the quality is a lot better than before.

thedrickel
12-13-2008, 12:58 AM
Supposedly DSA is going to have some Type 2's next week and they recently had available a bunch of Type 1's w/o carry handle cut. Dealer price is $350 and many dealers will let you order for that + their transfer fee.

Czechsix
12-13-2008, 12:58 AM
DSA easy to find, Imbel like hen's teeth, Entreprise easy to find, all the others are spotty. I agree that Entreprise is better than before, but I never had any hellacious problems to begin with. I've seen issues with all of them, DSA included. They're an easy build, but don't wait too long......

shooterdave
12-13-2008, 12:59 AM
i would love to get a dsa but i'm broke right now.

Steve O
12-13-2008, 1:24 AM
Anyone selling complete rifles?

shooterdave
12-13-2008, 1:27 AM
other than entreprise and dsa it's pretty much build your own.

eric90503
12-13-2008, 2:29 AM
I have both Enterprise and DSA. Purchased brand new never been fired stg58 kits back in the day before SB23.
Enterprise built one on their frame and Triple H built one on the DSA. I've heard things have changed with Enterprise. But fit and finish was superior on the DSA.
Triple H is contemplating starting up again and getting back in the biz. Also local gunsmith.

domokun
12-13-2008, 2:50 AM
Anyone selling complete rifles?

I saw 2 DSA FALs for sale at Bay Area Gun Vault when I was over there this past Wednesday. Don't know if they still have them available. They have pinned magazines with a stripper clip loading dust cover.

Max-the-Silent
12-13-2008, 7:04 AM
What the others guy said, plus one:

SBL - made in Israel, milspec, metric, off list. Hard to find but they're out there.

wooger
12-13-2008, 7:30 AM
I forget the designation but FN made rifles that were not "FAL", although they are pricy.

Steve O
12-13-2008, 10:20 AM
I saw 2 DSA FALs for sale at Bay Area Gun Vault when I was over there this past Wednesday. Don't know if they still have them available. They have pinned magazines with a stripper clip loading dust cover.

I just called them. Said they have one complete rifle. I asked how much

"We don't do pricing over the phone..."

"Dude I'm going have to drive form Marin just to find out the price range!"

I got him to give it up.

He said "around" 1800 !!!

4 Brigada
12-13-2008, 11:29 AM
One thing to say the Imbels where so wanted because at one time they were dirt cheap and everywere. So those who have them and bought them a those less than 300 bucks in some cases dont want to part with them and if they do they want their weight in gold to sell them. I myself prefer the DSA and the Entreprise. They can keep those type 3 Imbel receivers

rhess595
12-13-2008, 11:57 AM
I saw 2 DSA FALs for sale at Bay Area Gun Vault when I was over there this past Wednesday. Don't know if they still have them available. They have pinned magazines with a stripper clip loading dust cover.

They were asking $1900 for each, the 16" and 18"

jamesob
12-13-2008, 12:02 PM
don't forget century.

Harrison_Bergeron
12-13-2008, 12:11 PM
What are the differences in the FAL receiver types?
I have been reading up on the various rifles that can be built with off the shelf parts, and it would seem that a FAL requires less gun specific tools and is easier to assemble, but that the receiver and kits cost more, when compared to AKs. Is that an accurate assessment? Would a FAL be good idea for a first build?

.454
12-13-2008, 12:15 PM
What are the differences in the FAL receiver types?
I have been reading up on the various rifles that can be built with off the shelf parts, and it would seem that a FAL requires less gun specific tools and is easier to assemble, but that the receiver and kits cost more, when compared to AKs. Is that an accurate assessment? Would a FAL be good idea for a first build?

A FAL was my first build. Nothing to be scared about. You can find all the information you need at FALFiles.com

wooger
12-13-2008, 12:22 PM
FAL is easy to build.

technique
12-13-2008, 12:57 PM
I have a Ent. Fal....It works. looks like its been in the ocean for a few years...when I got the parts kit it had grass stuck in the cosmoline...

heres a pic of the kit.
http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll42/technique408/fal001.jpg

NSR500
12-13-2008, 1:22 PM
I have a Ent. Fal....It works. looks like its been in the ocean for a few years...when I got the parts kit it had grass stuck in the cosmoline...

Must be because a lot of Guns are lost in Tragic Boating Accidents? :p

GM4spd
12-13-2008, 1:44 PM
Complete DSA are expensive (in CA legal configuration), you can get an
Entreprise for around $1000+ tax and they work---I have bought 2 since July
when I got back into the gun fraternity.I like them and I like supporting a
Cali company,DSA are overated and I have owned one of them also,plus a DSA CA legal rifle has a stubby 10 rd mag and is PERMANENTLY
fixed in place(weld),and for more money then Entreprise---choice is clear and for the FORGE RCVR people
remember the investment cast rcvr will outlive anyone reading this board.The forge rcvr is NO more
accurate or reliable then your investment cast.

This is my older Entreprise INCH rcvrd version from early ninties(dressed in black), parade uniform dressed in wood (2nd pic),California
legal,also

http://www.fototime.com/C204039F43E181B/standard.jpg

http://www.fototime.com/E40C1548111B6D9/standard.jpg
http://www.fototime.com/2A0A2E207E1CD43/standard.jpg

CaptMike
12-13-2008, 2:06 PM
I too have bought a fal from entreprise in the last 4 months. I love it. They are a great group of guys over there. Matt is a cool person to work with. And their gunsmith does a geat job at assebling fals. they are one of the few places locally that you can get a fal from fairly quickly. they have plenty of descent quality kits left and they build them and refinish them into fine california legal fal rifles. I highly recommend Entreprise. good luck

Mike

-hanko
12-13-2008, 3:05 PM
So what are the FN FAL guys doing for off list builds?

I'm researching for an old timer friend who wants to do a build.
Your friend needs to join the fal files and read marketplace ads religiously as that is THE website for fal stuff.

Check the 'reviews' and 'gunsmithing' forums for comments on receivers.

New dsa guns in what they call the 'original' series run $1600 & up.

Building your own is no major feat. But, you need a barrel vise, receiver wrench, and pin gages and headspace gages to make sure you assemble it correctly. A set of tools runs around $200-ish. Have your friend post a message in the gunsmith section of the fal files for assistance, he invariably will get volunteers to help him put the gun together.

If he's the type of person who can't understand how to assemble an AR lower, I'd advise against building an fal himself;)

PM me if you need more.

-hanko

wooger
12-13-2008, 4:01 PM
Hey GM,

Who made the wood? Looks great.

5hundo
12-13-2008, 4:49 PM
don't forget century.

Yup...

While CETME "Sporters" (..."made in Spain" etc.) are illegal, the R1A1 and other variations are off list...

You almost have to go with a bullet button though. There are no real options to negate the pistol grip.

Monsterman is working on one but he's been saying that there is a design problem. So, you can get a bullet button, and use 10 rounders but keep in mind, an R1A1 (or L1A1, etc) is NOT an FAL. It resembles one and uses the same mags but has some differences...

I actually like the recoil of the R1A1 but (as I've personally experienced) the craftsmanship of the Century R1A1s (or comparable) can be suspect. My FCG sucks (to say the least)...

GM4spd
12-13-2008, 5:39 PM
Hey GM,

Who made the wood? Looks great.

This is LOCAL in Northern CA,his name is Matt,makes a GREAT product
but FAL stuff is a long wait presently and the stuff is pricey but well
worth it because it FITS perfectly. Pete



http://www.ironwooddesigns.com/

westcoastr
12-14-2008, 11:09 AM
[QUOTE=GM4spd;1782103],DSA are overated and I have owned one of them also,plus a DSA CA legal rifle has a stubby 10 rd mag and is PERMANENTLY
fixed in place(weld)QUOTE]

just a slight clarification. DSA mags are not welded into the reciever. there is blob of weld on the upper that prevents the mag latch from releasing the mag without pulling the axis pin. if you buy or bulid an ak-style mag lever cover, you can file the weld out (15 minutes) and then release mags with a tool.

i have never owned any FAL except a DSA. I have shot others and found them great also, although only w/ irons so can't comment on accuracy.

my DSA took 27 weeks to get delivered - if you are willing to risk waiting forever, you won't be disappointed. my very basic handloads, with bulk FMJ and beat up brass are sub MOA

GM4spd
12-14-2008, 11:14 AM
[QUOTE=GM4spd;1782103],DSA are overated and I have owned one of them also,plus a DSA CA legal rifle has a stubby 10 rd mag and is PERMANENTLY
fixed in place(weld)QUOTE]

just a slight clarification. DSA mags are not welded into the reciever. there is blob of weld on the upper that prevents the mag latch from releasing the mag without pulling the axis pin. if you buy or bulid an ak-style mag lever cover, you can file the weld out (15 minutes) and then release mags with a tool.

i have never owned any FAL except a DSA. I have shot others and found them great also, although only w/ irons so can't comment on accuracy.

my DSA took 27 weeks to get delivered - if you are willing to risk waiting forever, you won't be disappointed. my very basic handloads, with bulk FMJ and beat up brass are sub MOA

If you have a sub MOA FAL made by anyone,make sure you hang on to
it---you have the exception and not the rule. I had a 16" barrel DSA FAL about 5 years ago and it worked fine, I didn't like the 2 tone finish withthe metal and the furniture but that is just me,again I saw no diff in accuracy
@100 yds,(iron sites,and military ball) then with either of my Entreprise FALs or the SAR48 I owned many years ago.Pete

http://www.fototime.com/4B8CAB36E00E9A6/standard.jpg

westcoastr
12-14-2008, 11:39 AM
[QUOTE=westcoastr;1784385]

If you have a sub MOA FAL made by anyone,make sure you hang on to
it---you have the exception and not the rule. I had a 16" barrel DSA FAL about 5 years ago and it worked fine, I didn't like the 2 tone finish withthe metal and the furniture but that is just me,again I saw no diff in accuracy
@100 yds,(iron sites,and military ball) then with either of my Entreprise FALs or the SAR48 I owned many years ago.Pete



i have no plans on parting ways with it. it is a bit of a riddle. even scoped, surplus aussie shoot 6-8 MOA!! just plain awful. Miwalls reloads are 2 MOA. my first batch of hand loads, twice fired LC brass, hornady bulk 150 gr FMJ and 45 grs Varget are grouping 0.65". it has a trigger job which helps imensely. other than that it is basically a 18" bbl congo, hampton lower and duracoated

GM4spd
12-14-2008, 11:50 AM
Yup...

While CETME "Sporters" (..."made in Spain" etc.) are illegal, the R1A1 and other variations are off list...

You almost have to go with a bullet button though. There are no real options to negate the pistol grip.

Monsterman is working on one but he's been saying that there is a design problem. So, you can get a bullet button, and use 10 rounders but keep in mind, an R1A1 (or L1A1, etc) is NOT an FAL. It resembles one and uses the same mags but has some differences...

I actually like the recoil of the R1A1 but (as I've personally experienced) the craftsmanship of the Century R1A1s (or comparable) can be suspect. My FCG sucks (to say the least)...

Question??? about the FAL BB--it looks to me like the action can't be
broken open with the BB in place,is that correct?:eek: I saw a BB on the
AR15 types and it looks real good and unobtrusive:cool2:--the FAL not so much. Pete

westcoastr
12-14-2008, 11:53 AM
the FAL BBs from thedrikel or jjperl will not allow you to open the action enough to remove the bolt and carrier. you have to pull the front pin

GM4spd
12-14-2008, 12:01 PM
the FAL BBs from thedrikel or jjperl will not allow you to open the action enough to remove the bolt and carrier. you have to pull the front pin

Thanks for the reply,that is what I thought.I guess pulling the pin isn't so bad but something I would rather not do on a regular basis.The BBs also don't do anything
for the fine lines on these rifles,but we do what we need to. Pete

5hundo
12-14-2008, 12:52 PM
Thanks for the reply,that is what I thought.I guess pulling the pin isn't so bad but something I would rather not do on a regular basis.The BBs also don't do anything
for the fine lines on these rifles,but we do what we need to. Pete

Really though, there's no other option, at this point. We're waiting with bated breath for a Monsterman solution. (at least I am)

Honestly, its probably for the best. I still need to do something about my buggered-up FCG. Suggestions? It's a Hesse R1A1...

Harrison_Bergeron
12-14-2008, 5:03 PM
Since FALs need the headspace measured and adjusted anyway does that mean that using a new U.S. barrel is less of a nuisance than with an AK?

Pronghorn
02-27-2009, 6:21 AM
What about the Century built hesse L1A1? Are they CA legal as long as they're configured properly?

C.G.
02-27-2009, 5:15 PM
What about the Century built hesse L1A1? Are they CA legal as long as they're configured properly?

Century is hit and miss. Some worked fine and others needed a lot of tweaking. Many threads about Century FrankenFals on FALfiles.com.

Pronghorn
02-28-2009, 7:50 AM
Century is hit and miss. Some worked fine and others needed a lot of tweaking. Many threads about Century FrankenFals on FALfiles.com.


I was mainly wondering about the legality. I don't see them mentioned in this thread.

westcoastr
02-28-2009, 8:08 AM
pulling the front pin to remove bolt and carrier to clean takes 5 seconds

C.G.
02-28-2009, 11:33 AM
I was mainly wondering about the legality. I don't see them mentioned in this thread.

That is because most people stay away from them, but they are legal.

Czechsix
02-28-2009, 12:06 PM
What about the Century built hesse L1A1? Are they CA legal as long as they're configured properly?

If it's not on the list, it's good to go. Check out the flowchart, it'll answer that question.

Personally, unless you have experience with fal's, or really know someone that does, I'd stay away from that Hesse, unless it's a screaming deal. There are good ones, and bad ones, but even the bad ones can be made to work, it just takes time, effort, and knowledge.