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View Full Version : AR-15 or 308 (AR-10 type)?


Phil3
12-12-2008, 12:43 PM
If I am just shooting holes in paper at 100 yards, is there anything that the .308 AR-10 type rifle can do that the .223 can't, other than kick harder, make more noise and flash, and cost me more to build and shoot? I do LIKE the noise and flash, and also the exclusivity of the thing compared to an AR-15, but functionally, it sounds like I could get much of this, and superior accuracy using a bolt action sniper type rifle. And maybe for less $$$. ???

The AR-10 certainly has the more evil looks, and it is hard to ignore human nature's desire to buy something which government authority may later say I can't have... I guess I am wrestling with irrational emotional wants vs logic.

Thoughts?

- Phil

GMONEY
12-12-2008, 12:46 PM
Start with the ar-15... if you like the bang and flash buy an AK!

technique
12-12-2008, 12:48 PM
My first OLL was a Hesse .308. No regrets here.

Phil3
12-12-2008, 12:52 PM
I can get a Noveske .308 lower now, and given the current climate, buying something like this (or any AR) later may not be possible. So, trying to map the collection out now and buy key parts (lowers) in advance.

- Phil

technique
12-12-2008, 1:59 PM
Get what you can.:chris: Its good to have both. A .308 build is gonna cost more to build and shoot.

aplinker
12-12-2008, 2:18 PM
No

The AR10 and AR15 look the same from a distance. Their only difference is size.

If I am just shooting holes in paper at 100 yards, is there anything that the .308 AR-10 type rifle can do that the .223 can't, other than kick harder, make more noise and flash, and cost me more to build and shoot? I do LIKE the noise and flash, and also the exclusivity of the thing compared to an AR-15, but functionally, it sounds like I could get much of this, and superior accuracy using a bolt action sniper type rifle. And maybe for less $$$. ???

The AR-10 certainly has the more evil looks, and it is hard to ignore human nature's desire to buy something which government authority may later say I can't have... I guess I am wrestling with irrational emotional wants vs logic.

Thoughts?

- Phil

_Odin_
12-12-2008, 2:57 PM
If you want a .308 get an M14 - much better than an AR10.

PIRATE14
12-12-2008, 3:10 PM
If you want a .308 get an M14 - much better than an AR10.


Sure.........:rolleyes:

rg_1111@yahoo.com
12-12-2008, 4:26 PM
Now that's funny.

Quote:
Originally Posted by _Odin_
If you want a .308 get an M14 - much better than an AR10.

To Phil3,
The AR-10 has more stopping power.

_Odin_
12-12-2008, 4:51 PM
Now that's funny.

Quote:
Originally Posted by _Odin_
If you want a .308 get an M14 - much better than an AR10.

To Phil3,
The AR-10 has more stopping power.

The M14 is more reliable, easier to clean, easier to maintain and more rugged than the AR10 - which is probably why when it comes to .308 (7.62NATO) the us military still uses the M14 (not the AR10... not even sure if the US ever used the AR10):

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c7/TroopBaghdadM14s.jpg

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/e/ec/CSA-2006-10-17-093634.jpg/752px-CSA-2006-10-17-093634.jpg

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/a0/Sniper_rifle.jpg/750px-Sniper_rifle.jpg

Blacktail 8541
12-12-2008, 5:33 PM
Deletedo

Owned is not a word I would use. It would be more of a 1956 mind set of "wood not plastic."

While I truly like the m14 rifle, it has a lot of short commings compared to the modern AR10. The gas system being the main problem. As in being to sensitive of gas port pressures. While this can be corrected with proper powder selection, it will in turn limit top velocities.

Another item is the time and cost to produce. The amount of time to machine is very expensive for forged steel, espessially for the tollerances that must be maintained on the m14 rifle.

One last thing that I will bring up is the difficulty of mounting optics compared to the AR10. No comparison neded.

grammaton76
12-12-2008, 5:43 PM
The M14 is more reliable, easier to clean, easier to maintain and more rugged than the AR10 - which is probably why when it comes to .308 (7.62NATO) the us military still uses the M14 (not the AR10... not even sure if the US ever used the AR10):


Look up the KAC SR-25, which is a relative of the AR-10, and you'll find a LOT more involvement of AR-10 family rifles than you're presently finding when you search for the AR-10.

Also, consider that when you go talking about the sniper rifles (as opposed to service rifles), I guarantee you that you CAN'T go beating on a high-end M14 anywhere near as much as you can beat on a standard issue M14 without suffering degradation in performance.

The AR-10... I don't think there's as much increase in sensitivity between the tricked out variants and the service-grade variants.

heycorey
12-12-2008, 6:22 PM
Look up the KAC SR-25, which is a relative of the AR-10, and you'll find a LOT more involvement of AR-10 family rifles than you're presently finding when you search for the AR-10.

And another variant (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M110_Semi-Automatic_Sniper_System) ...


OP, if all you're going to do is punch paper, get an AR-15. On the other hand, if you've got access to an AR-10 lower, I'd buy it. If a new AWB is enacted, it'll be harder to get your hands on one later than an AR-15.

rg_1111@yahoo.com
12-12-2008, 7:29 PM
Odin,
I will be done cleaning my AR-10 & drinking a diet pipsi before you clean a M14.

mr2.0
12-12-2008, 9:01 PM
Here we go again....:lurk5:

Infidel
12-12-2008, 9:11 PM
I say buy both lowers and build them as you go...If you want help making a decision on which to buy first...I say buy the AR-15 lower first then before building the AR-15 buy an AR-10 lower

Spyduh
12-12-2008, 9:44 PM
the us military still uses the M14 (not the AR10... not even sure if the US ever used the AR10):


Future Weapons:M110
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=klL6qjcaX5c
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=klL6qjcaX5c

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8zhfCBRSIAk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8zhfCBRSIAk

*cough* that looks like an AR10 and it sure looks like the Military's using it.

J_Rock
12-12-2008, 9:58 PM
The M14 is more reliable No, its really not, they are having alot of problems with the M14 in iraq which is why they are switching to the M110

easier to clean, easier to maintain and more rugged than the AR10 Completely wrong on this one, have you ever stripped a AR10 or any AR for that matter? You need tools for the gas nut with the M14. You just need your fingers with the AR10, hows that for easy. Also since the AR10 uses a heavier bolt and is more gassed it tends to be more reliable than its smaller cousin

which is probably why when it comes to .308 (7.62NATO) the us military still uses the M14 (not the AR10... not even sure if the US ever used the AR10):

Completely wrong again, ever hear of the SR25? Its been in use with SOCOM since the 90's


I will try and be nicer to fellow CG members;)

_Odin_
12-13-2008, 1:47 AM
No, its really not, they are having alot of problems with the M14 in iraq which is why they are switching to the M110

Fail.

The M14 SAGE EBR and Sage M14ALCS are still in use w/ the M14- these have not been replaced - only the M24s were. Nice try at mashing random facts together to pass your opinion off as truth.

Completely wrong on this one, have you ever stripped a AR10 or any AR for that matter? You need tools for the gas nut with the M14. You just need your fingers with the AR10, hows that for easy. Also since the AR10 uses a heavier bolt and is more gassed it tends to be more reliable than its smaller cousin

Yup - I own 3 ARs and several M14s - the M14 is MOST CERTAINLY easier to strip and clean than the AR platform (AR10/15 or otherwise). I'm not going to debate the various steps in the process - look for yourself and stop acting like an "internet tough-guy" -> http://www.m1-m1a-ar15.com/careandcleaning.html

Completely wrong again, ever hear of the SR25? Its been in use with SOCOM since the 90's

alright, so I over looked that variant(s) -CONGRATULATIONS! Want a cookie?

Although going back to the OPs question about what he should get - and to J-Rock the know-it-all: I'm not going to recommened buying some gimmped rifle w/ a bullet button/monsterman grip etc. over a solid M14/M1A!! You put a BB on that AR and it's practically a novelty item compared to an LRB Arms/Smith Enterprise M14 - The MM grip is just flatout cumbersome. And than theres the issue of being accosted at the range by clowns that don't know the law, gun-grabing LEO's that think a legal config is illeagl, range officers that won't let you shoot, having to carry around a folder of PD memos and copies of the penal code to prove it's legal etc... Too much hassel for a gun that's neatured by CA law and has an infeior setup to begin with. Just go with the M14 - it's quality and you won't be outgunned.. :chris:

FMJBT
12-13-2008, 2:28 AM
If I am just shooting holes in paper at 100 yards, is there anything that the .308 AR-10 type rifle can do that the .223 can't, other than kick harder, make more noise and flash, and cost me more to build and shoot? I do LIKE the noise and flash, and also the exclusivity of the thing compared to an AR-15, but functionally, it sounds like I could get much of this, and superior accuracy using a bolt action sniper type rifle. And maybe for less $$$. ???


Punching holes in paper may get a bit boring after a while. If the long range syndrom ever sets in, the AR-15 will get you out to about 800 yards, give or take depending on barrel length. The AR-10 will get you out to about 1000 or just a little over, again depending on barrel length and rifle configuration. For punching paper though, the AR-10 has no appreciable advantage over the AR-15, other than the fact that chicks dig them just a bit more.....

As far as bolt vs. AR for accuracy, a well built AR will give most bolt guns some stiff competition. Generally speaking though, the bolt action rifle will be able to get the same accuracy for less money, especially if stock rifles like the Savage 10FP, Remington PSS, and Tikka T3 are taken into consideration. These are all sub moa capable bolt guns that are priced under $1000. Most AR-15's capable of the same accuracy will run over $1000. Precision AR-10's will run into the $2000 and up range typically.

kalieracer
12-13-2008, 11:48 AM
If you want a .308 get an M14 - much better than an AR10.

LOL.....

-hanko
12-13-2008, 1:51 PM
At least we now know never to take any of your "opinions" seriously.
+1.

Res ispa loquitur.

First time in many years I've used the ignore list...gunkid was close but this Scandinavian god-guy is definitely a step beyond that;)

-hanko

Phil3
12-14-2008, 10:16 AM
I am the OP, and thanks for the lively discussion. After some thought and listening to the posts, I decided to venture into the AR-10 type world and have purchased a Noveske N6 .308 lower receiver. This will accompany one or two AR-15s. The reasons to go this route are many, and apply to the purchase of many firearms, especially those that are arguably "overkill". I may start another thread on that.

- Phil

ivanimal
12-15-2008, 2:50 PM
OK I have 3 M1A's and one AR10 I like the M1A's almost as much as the AR10. Other days I like the M1A's more. I will say the Ar10 turns more heads. The M1A's hold their accuracy better, but that usually depends on me really.




Edit; P.S. cut the crap or it will be time off.