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View Full Version : 80 grain hornady A-MAX load to length?


richmondshooter
12-10-2008, 7:43 PM
I plan on shooting a hornady 80 grain AMAX in my ar15 service rifle(223) at 600 yards. I plan on starting with 22.5 grains of N140 and a CCI 400 primer. What should my load to legth be? I do not have a caliper to measure the distance to the lands so I am looking for a OAL, if that is safe to load to without any further information.

CSACANNONEER
12-10-2008, 8:31 PM
Your OAL should be partialy determined by your chamber. You want the bullet to be .002-.005 off the lands (not touching). Every chamber is a little different so, use a Stoney Point type gauge, Cerro cast your chamber or figure out another way to measure your chamber. If you ar planning to mag feed these rounds, your OAL will have to be short enough to fit into the mag.

ocabj
12-10-2008, 8:49 PM
You need to check the Hornady manual. They have a generic OAL listed for the 80gr A-Max, which should be safe in a .223 Wylde or 5.56 NATO chamber. You can call Hornady and they'll give you this information over the phone. If with that reference measurement, you'd still want to seat a dummy round at that length and try seating it and checking for a stuck bullet or hard contact in the lands.

Or you can just find someone at your club that has the gauge. You shoot HP? I'm sure at least one HP shooter in your area has the Stoney Point / Hornady gauge.

Ahhnother8
12-10-2008, 9:52 PM
Ask some of the juniors at Richmond. They were/are sponsored by Hornady, so likely know. You could just load them long, slip them into the chamber, and let the bolt seat them. No, not kidding.

Also, the CCI400 is a very soft primer, so it will show pressure even with low velocities. Need to find a thicker cupped primer and push the bullets fast for 600.

Lane

NRAhighpowershooter
12-10-2008, 10:00 PM
Also, the CCI400 is a very soft primer, so it will show pressure even with low velocities. Need to find a thicker cupped primer and push the bullets fast for 600.

Lane


since when???? CCI's have one of the hardest cups....

rayra
12-10-2008, 10:37 PM
The OP seems to have left max OAL which will fit in his magazine out of consideration. Something that becomes important with heavier / longer bullets.

NRAhighpowershooter
12-10-2008, 10:43 PM
The OP seems to have left max OAL which will fit in his magazine out of consideration. Something that becomes important with heavier / longer bullets.

once you get to the heavier bullets you can't load to mag length and still load the powder you need to make the bullets work out to 600yds+

The Hornady 75gr and the Sierra 77's can and are loaded to mage length for the short lines but dont even consider it for the heavier stuff.

EOD3
12-10-2008, 10:53 PM
I plan on shooting a hornady 80 grain AMAX in my ar15 service rifle(223) at 600 yards. I plan on starting with 22.5 grains of N140 and a CCI 400 primer. What should my load to legth be? I do not have a caliper to measure the distance to the lands so I am looking for a OAL, if that is safe to load to without any further information.

No offense intended but, I'm thinking you're a little short on experience reloading for the AR. First, I can't find any 80 grain AMAX loads in any of my load manuals. Hornady lists a 75 grain AMAX but cautions that it can't be loaded to magazine length so you have to feed rounds by hand. The 75 grain AMAX is shown in the .223 Service Rifle data and has a COL of 2.390 inches. The 75 grain bullet "should" stabilize in a 1:9 twist but anything longer/heavier would require a minimum of 1:8 and maybe 1:7.

The 80 grain AMAX is for the 22-250 and similar cartridges.

Loading any cartridge longer than the SAAMI maximum COL of 2.250 inches without knowing exactly where the chamber ends and the rifling begins is about the same as Russian Roulette with a 1911.

And last but not least, 22.5 of N-140 in commercial brass behind an 80 grain bullet sounds like a VERY hot load, in G.I. brass it's probably WAY over MAX.

No, I'm not picking on you and, if you already know everything I just posted then "nevermind" :)

ocabj
12-11-2008, 5:02 AM
The 80 grain AMAX is for the 22-250 and similar cartridges.
...
First, I can't find any 80 grain AMAX loads in any of my load manuals.
...
And last but not least, 22.5 of N-140 in commercial brass behind an 80 grain bullet sounds like a VERY hot load, in G.I. brass it's probably WAY over MAX.

Actually, the 80gr 22cal A-Max was designed for .223 Service Rifle shooters.

The 80gr A-Max should be listed in Hornady's most recent manual. If not, I know for a fact Hornady released an addendum PDF file on their website with the 80gr A-Max load data when they released the 80gr A-Max bullet. I was trying to locate the file on my laptop, because I remember downloading it. Unfortunately, I don't think I saved it, since I never used the data anyway.

22.5gr of N140 is a very mild load.

The most common charge for N140 in a 1:7 to 1:8 20" SR barrel is between 23.5gr - 24.5gr for a 75 - 80gr bullet, given your individual barrel. And believe it or not, many people use more powder to push an 80gr than they do a 77gr (with the same powder and same brass manufacturer) simply because when you seat an 80, there is more case capacity since the bullet isn't seated as deep as a 77gr BTHP will be (mag length).

I used 24.0gr of RL15 to push the 80gr A-Max out of a .223 Wylde chambered barrel in LC brass. This was only for a 200 yard practice load, too. While I haven't bothered to develop an 80gr A-Max load for mid-range (600 yards), since I use 80gr Berger VLDs for that, I would most likely use 24.5gr RL15 in a LC case since that's what I use for 80gr SMKs.

Ahhnother8
12-11-2008, 7:38 AM
since when???? CCI's have one of the hardest cups....

Ask, and ye shall receive...

http://www.jamescalhoon.com/primers_and_pressure.php


No offense intended but, I'm thinking you're a little short on experience reloading for the AR. First, I can't find any 80 grain AMAX loads in any of my load manuals. Hornady lists a 75 grain AMAX but cautions that it can't be loaded to magazine length so you have to feed rounds by hand. The 75 grain AMAX is shown in the .223 Service Rifle data and has a COL of 2.390 inches.

This was not directed to me, but...I shot the prototype 80 grain Hornady about 3 years ago. Don't remember for sure, but likely used 25-27 grains of N540 (my normal load range). They shot about the same as the Sierra 80 grain bullets at 600 yards. At 600 yards, it is single loading only, so the COAL is whatever will chamber in the rifle. And just FYI, it IS possible to load even 80 grain VLD's to magazine length. Just screw down the seater die and go to town... ;)


And believe it or not, many people use more powder to push an 80gr than they do a 77gr (with the same powder and same brass manufacturer) simply because when you seat an 80, there is more case capacity since the bullet isn't seated as deep as a 77gr BTHP will be (mag length).

I think more importantly, a 77 has a LOT of bearing surface versus an 80 VLD which has very LITTLE bearing surface. It simply takes more powder to get the velocities desired.

Lane

richmondshooter
12-11-2008, 8:32 AM
thanks

I called hornady and they told me 2.390

EOD3
12-12-2008, 1:41 PM
Actually, the 80gr 22cal A-Max was designed for .223 Service Rifle shooters.

The 80gr A-Max should be listed in Hornady's most recent manual. If not, I know for a fact Hornady released an addendum PDF file on their website with the 80gr A-Max load data when they released the 80gr A-Max bullet. I was trying to locate the file on my laptop, because I remember downloading it. Unfortunately, I don't think I saved it, since I never used the data anyway.

22.5gr of N140 is a very mild load.

The most common charge for N140 in a 1:7 to 1:8 20" SR barrel is between 23.5gr - 24.5gr for a 75 - 80gr bullet, given your individual barrel. And believe it or not, many people use more powder to push an 80gr than they do a 77gr (with the same powder and same brass manufacturer) simply because when you seat an 80, there is more case capacity since the bullet isn't seated as deep as a 77gr BTHP will be (mag length).

I used 24.0gr of RL15 to push the 80gr A-Max out of a .223 Wylde chambered barrel in LC brass. This was only for a 200 yard practice load, too. While I haven't bothered to develop an 80gr A-Max load for mid-range (600 yards), since I use 80gr Berger VLDs for that, I would most likely use 24.5gr RL15 in a LC case since that's what I use for 80gr SMKs.

Excellent advice!!! Obviously, you have personal experience with this loading. My remarks were based on abstract experience acquired during my career in Army EOD and my years in the Research & Advanced Technologies (RAT) group of United Technologies chemical systems division (rocket motors)... Please, NO rocket scientist jokes.

While I'm certain your information is 100%, it will be a cold day in LLEH when I recommend unpublished data to a novice re-loader that doesn't even have a dial caliper.