Switchblades

[holyhandgrenade]

Im not sure if this should go in here or not, but I figure knives are "arms" so might as well put it here. Feel free to move it if should be.

In light of all the other stuff thats going on, this may seem like small potatoes, but Im interested to get some of your guys' takes on this. Basically Im interested in getting a switchblade (legally). Its not worth it to me to get into any trouble as its mostly just for grins, but I think I have a way to do it and still comply with the law. Also, I am talking about a knife that has a blade over 2 inches.

I know that there are both Federal and State laws to contend with.
My plan is to order a kit that basically takes an otherwise legal knife (I assume a button lock knife, such as a Boker Magnum, would be legal), adds a spring and turns it into a switchblade. I would basically be manufacturing a switchblade, for all intents and purposes.

If I read the Federal Switchblade Act correctly, the only manufacture of switchblades that is illegal is the manufacture of them for interstate commerce, is this correct? So assuming I dont sell it across state lines, which I wouldnt, I should be in the clear Federally, right?

As for state law, Section 653k states, " Every person who possesses in the passenger's or driver's area of any motor vehicle in any public place or place open to the public, carries upon his or her person, and every person who sells, offers for sale, exposes for sale, loans, transfers, or gives to any other person a switchblade knife having a blade two or more inches in length is guilty of a misdemeanor."

No where in here is there anything that bans possession (except in the passenger's or driver's area of a motor vehicle) or the manufacture of switchblades.
So am I correct in believing that as long as I leave it at home, dont carry it, or sell/give it away, I am ok?

[ke6guj]

If I read the Federal Switchblade Act correctly, the only manufacture of switchblades that is illegal is the manufacture of them for interstate commerce, is this correct? So assuming I dont sell it across state lines, which I wouldnt, I should be in the clear Federally, right?Thats the way I understand it. My Ca-legal 1.9" auto was made by GT knives, in Ontario, CA, IIRC, and was bought from a CA resident, so no interstate commerce issues there. Pro-Tech knives are the same way, you can legally purchase them in CA without Federal issues.

As for state law, Section 653k states, " Every person who possesses in the passenger's or driver's area of any motor vehicle in any public place or place open to the public, carries upon his or her person, and every person who sells, offers for sale, exposes for sale, loans, transfers, or gives to any other person a switchblade knife having a blade two or more inches in length is guilty of a misdemeanor."

No where in here is there anything that bans possession (except in the passenger's or driver's area of a motor vehicle) or the manufacture of switchblades.
So am I correct in believing that as long as I leave it at home, dont carry it, or sell/give it away, I am ok?
correct, 653k only concerns the carrying or sale of 2+" switchblades. If you have one, it is legal to own at home, but gaining possession is usually the hard part. Making one for your collection seems to be legal.

[tyrist]

You can have it sitting on a table in your home but never on your person; even in your house. If for some reason the Police were in your home and you had it on you it would be a crime.

[holyhandgrenade]

You can have it sitting on a table in your home but never on your person; even in your house. If for some reason the Police were in your home and you had it on you it would be a crime.

Ha oh wow, I didnt even think of that. I guess Ill have to be careful then lol. No that the police are ever in my house, but still.

Well, it seems that I should be good to go then. Im really glad it looks like Ill finally be able to add one to the collection.

Thanks for the replies!

[Alan Block]

Auto knife kits. I'm not talking about the cheap italian style switch but real quality knives. They also sell conversion tools and parts to make them from other knives like Buck 110s. Its not easy and you have to drill a couple holes in the blade. Mikovs can be OK but the quality varies alot. Boker toplock knives often have the conversion done and only need a coil spring.

[Vacaville]

I've got a Kershaw assisted-opening knife. Pretty close to a switchblade and there's no question about legality.

[domokun]

In our "great" state, the following is true (summary):

1. Assisted Opening knives are legal in CA.
2. Fully-Automatic opening knives aka switchblades are legal as long as they're under 2 inches in blade length.

See here for the full summary:

http://www.ninehundred.net/~equalccw/knifelaw.html

[Vacaville]

In our "great" state, the following is true (summary):

1. Assisted Opening knives are legal in CA.
2. Fully-Automatic opening knives aka switchblades are legal as long as they're under 2 inches in blade length.

That's just big enough to pick your teeth with. :D

[Liberty1]

Once "bear" is ironed out it will be easier to expand "arms" to non firearms. Hopefully knife "arms" don't get limited to just a knife bayonet. I'd like to see batons legalized and constitutionally protected in Ca (all bearable arms for that matter).

[Captain Evilstomper]

a company called the Edge Co. used to sell automatic knife kits. they still do IIRC but they are military or LEO limited sales.

[holyhandgrenade]

Once "bear" is ironed out it will be easier to expand "arms" to non firearms. Hopefully knife "arms" don't get limited to just a knife bayonet. I'd like to see batons legalized and constitutionally protected in Ca (all bearable arms for that matter).

You have no idea how happy I would be if ASPs were legalized. Thats another thing I really want to add to my collection. Plus I think they would be great for self defense. At present though, its not worth the trouble.

I also have an unnatural fascination with brass knuckles, I dont see the law changing on those anytime soon, and they REALLY aint worth a felony but I would love to have some.

Vacaville: I actually have a Kershaw Chive that I use as my school carry knife. Its cool and I really like it, but theres something about a real switch that attracts me. Especially since it looks like I have a way around the laws.

[sytfu_RR]

I've got a Kershaw assisted-opening knife. Pretty close to a switchblade and there's no question about legality.

I have two, I used to carry one all the time until a Walnut Creek PD stopped me, and told me that it is illegal, and that it could be confiscated and I "charged" with some sorta misdemeanor. :TFH: So now I carry an UN-assisted folder. ( with the seatbelt cutter & glass breaker ) Funny how my Kershaw knife which is sold in walmart/big 5/sports authority is apparently illegal! :rolleyes:

[Ballistic043]

i also use one of the speed safe knives- "blur" tanto model. very nice indeed. i was turned on to the knife by a good friend who is also LEO. when i first saw it, i told him i couldn't believe thats legal! but he assured me that wal mart sold them legitimately to everyone old enough to buy them. so i got one and never looked back.

but, carrying the knife DOES make me a bit nervous. it is incredibly fast and similar to how a switch blade works. (the only difference really is in the hidden mechanics) so i printed a paper that i take with me wherever i go. it details 3 things primarily: state laws, definitions of a switch blade, and municipal/city knife laws-which should ALWAYS be researched thoroughly. it makes me feel more prepared if (when) i get hassled

here is an example of my print out-

-----------------------------------------------------------
CA STATE LAW: REF: CARRY AND USE OF KNIVES - CA PC.12020 (a) (4) (24)

PC 12020.

(a) Any person in this state who does any of the following
is punishable by imprisonment in a county jail not exceeding one year
or in the state prison:

/////

(4) Carries concealed upon his or her person any dirk or dagger.

/////

(24) As used in this section, a "dirk" or "dagger" means a knife
or other instrument with or without a handguard that is capable of
ready use as a stabbing weapon that may inflict great bodily injury
or death. A nonlocking folding knife, a folding knife that is not
prohibited by Section 653k, or a pocketknife is capable of ready use
as a stabbing weapon that may inflict great bodily injury or death
only if the blade of the knife is exposed and locked into position.

------------------------------------------------------------------------

CA STATE LAW: REF: DEFINITION OF SWITCH BLADES (SEC. 653K)

653k.

Every person who possesses in the passenger's or driver's area of any motor vehicle in any public place or place open to the public, carries upon his or her person, and every person who sells, offers for sale, exposes for sale, loans, transfers, or gives to any other person a switchblade knife having a blade two or more inches in length is guilty of a misdemeanor.

///////

For the purposes of this section, "switchblade knife" means a knife having the appearance of a pocketknife and includes a spring-blade knife, snap-blade knife, gravity knife or any other similar type knife, the blade or blades of which are two or more inches in length and which can be released automatically by a flick of a button, pressure on the handle, flip of the wrist or other mechanical device, or is released by the weight of the blade or by any type of mechanism whatsoever. "Switchblade knife" does not include a knife that opens with one hand utilizing thumb pressure applied solely to the blade of the knife or a thumb stud attached to the blade, provided that the knife has a detent or other mechanism that provides resistance that must be overcome in opening the blade, or that biases the blade back toward its closed position.

------------------------------------------------------------------------

HUNTINGTON BEACH MUNICIPAL CODE: REF: CONCEALED WEAPONS

HBMC, Title 9.80 (75-5/11,3293-8/95)


9.80.010 Prohibited. No person, other than a Public Officer, or person having secured a permit so to do, shall wear or carry concealed on or about his person, any pistol, dirk or other dangerous weapon or deadly weapon. (75-5/11)


9.80.020 Exceptions. The ordinary penknife, pocketknife or toilet shears are not deemed
dangerous or deadly weapons within the provisions of this chapter. (75-5/11)

------------------------------------------------------------------------


honestly, i cant really understand the whole 2 inch switch blade thing. unless you're going for a super leet box cutter, what's the point of carrying a fast knife that isnt long enough to reach vitals.

[AJAX22]

heh, I'm waiting for the definintion of arms to be expanded so that I can get a ballistic knife...

switchblades are fun, but they've got nothing on the ones that can shoot across the room.

[Ballistic043]

lol. kinda like this? :) (toward the end)



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hb0pq20AAy4

[AJAX22]

lol. kinda like this? :) (toward the end)



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hb0pq20AAy4

No.... thats just an OTF switchblade with the rear catch ground off.... (sucks by comparison)

A Russian ballistic knife looks like a sex toy from hell and can really do damage.

[Ballistic043]

thats why i said its KINDA like.....


more reading, less being anal

[daerror12]

If you dont care about laws and you have lots of money try this guy. http://www.burnknives1.com/homestartpage2.html he makes custom switchblades. really nice and really expensive.

[ilbob]

I think the "carries upon his or her person" part could get you even if it was sitting on your kitchen table, unless you glued it to the table, it would be fairly easy to surmise that you had at some point carried it to the table. While it would be difficult to prove exactly when you carried, an exact time when a crime was committed is not required for prosecution.

[bohoki]

I think the "carries upon his or her person" part could get you even if it was sitting on your kitchen table, unless you glued it to the table, it would be fairly easy to surmise that you had at some point carried it to the table. While it would be difficult to prove exactly when you carried, an exact time when a crime was committed is not required for prosecution.


i guess you could say you raked it out of a wheelbarrow onto the table

or you just whiskbroomed it across the floor and up a ramp

[Beelzy]

Switchblades are in fact legal to own at one's residence, and the trunk of a car. The law only stipulates "posession" not ownership.

Now in N.J. one cannot even own one, period.

[AJAX22]

thats why i said its KINDA like.....


more reading, less being anal

sorry if I'm knit picking, but they are really cool...

back when I was young(er) and dumb(er) I screwed around with one of those otf things trying to make it work like Arnold's knife from commando... it never worked right.

http://www.securityarms.com/20010315/galleryfiles/2300/2375.htm

here is a link to a pic of one of the real ballistic knives...

They are actually quite nasty.

[CaliforniaCarry]

As for state law, Section 653k states, " Every person who possesses in the passenger's or driver's area of any motor vehicle in any public place or place open to the public, carries upon his or her person, and every person who sells, offers for sale, exposes for sale, loans, transfers, or gives to any other person a switchblade knife having a blade two or more inches in length is guilty of a misdemeanor."


I just realized that, unlike high-capacity magazines, importing switchblades is not mentioned. Does this mean that for personal use (without intent to sell) it is legal to purchase a switchblade knife having a blade longer than 2 inches from an out-of-state party, and then bring it back with you into CA? Would this violate anything at a federal level?

[Glock22Fan]

That's just big enough to pick your teeth with. :D


I was friends with a retired British special forces knife-fighting instructor. He said that 2 inches was enough to kill anyone anytime, longer just meant easier.

[lioneaglegriffin]

I just realized that, unlike high-capacity magazines, importing switchblades is not mentioned. Does this mean that for personal use (without intent to sell) it is legal to purchase a switchblade knife having a blade longer than 2 inches from an out-of-state party, and then bring it back with you into CA? Would this violate anything at a federal level?

you can bring it in but all you can do is leave it at home and look at it.

i bought this:

http://www.tetragon.ca/product_images/large/Benchmade3100.jpg

Benchmade 3100 in baltimore, maryland and brought it back but its legal because of its 1.95 blade.

IMO its better than automatics made here in CA. (I love Benchmade.)

i would get the protech tantilla if were double action like the infidel.

[holyhandgrenade]

I just realized that, unlike high-capacity magazines, importing switchblades is not mentioned. Does this mean that for personal use (without intent to sell) it is legal to purchase a switchblade knife having a blade longer than 2 inches from an out-of-state party, and then bring it back with you into CA? Would this violate anything at a federal level?

I would think that might be construed as interstate commerce, Im not at all sure though.

[CaliforniaCarry]

I would think that might be construed as interstate commerce, Im not at all sure though.

What if you became a resident of another state, purchased a switchblade there, and then moved back to CA with it?

I know I'm probably sounding really hypothetical here, but I actually have a friend that is worried about this exact situation. He wants to move away for school, but plans to return to CA after he finishes. The state he is considering moving to has much more relaxed regulation of switchblades, and he's looking forward to purchasing a really nice one after he moves. However, he's concerned that if he was to decide to return to CA he'd have to get rid of it.

[bohoki]

does anybody have the definition of "blade"

as it applies to blade length

to me the blade length is the sharpened area but it seems that somehoe the california meaning is the length of metal from tip to handle

how long is the blade of a screwdriver? the tip is sharp but the length of the shaft is not blade right?

but then there is the sks spike bayonet how long is its blade?

[holyhandgrenade]

What if you became a resident of another state, purchased a switchblade there, and then moved back to CA with it?

I know I'm probably sounding really hypothetical here, but I actually have a friend that is worried about this exact situation. He wants to move away for school, but plans to return to CA after he finishes. The state he is considering moving to has much more relaxed regulation of switchblades, and he's looking forward to purchasing a really nice one after he moves. However, he's concerned that if he was to decide to return to CA he'd have to get rid of it.

To be honest, Im really not sure. What is and what isnt considered interstate commerce is really above my head. I would think an actual lawyer would have to look into that. Im not sure if a CA resident going to AZ, buying one and coming back would be or not (though I kinda assume it is).

Ill bet your friend would be able to get away with it if he was a resident of that other state... and as was noted, importation isnt banned apparently.

As for blade length, I would just assume it is handle to tip. There was that case with the Leatherman on school grounds (cant remember the name of the case right now), I would assume that precedent would be used in most knife cases.

[lioneaglegriffin]

http://pweb.netcom.com/~brlevine/ca.txt

Switchblades


653k. Every person who possesses in the passenger's or driver's
area of any motor vehicle in any public place or place open to the
public, carries upon his or her person, and every person who sells,
offers for sale, exposes for sale, loans, transfers, or gives to any
other person a switchblade knife having a blade two or more inches in
length is guilty of a misdemeanor.
For the purposes of this section, "switchblade knife" means a
knife having the appearance of a pocketknife and includes a
spring-blade knife, snap-blade knife, gravity knife or any other
similar type knife, the blade or blades of which are two or more
inches in length and which can be released automatically by a flick
of a button, pressure on the handle, flip of the wrist or other
mechanical device, or is released by the weight of the blade or by
any type of mechanism whatsoever. "Switchblade knife" does not
include a knife that opens with one hand utilizing thumb pressure
applied solely to the blade of the knife or a thumb stud attached to
the blade, provided that the knife has a detent or other mechanism
that provides resistance that must be overcome in opening the blade,
or that biases the blade back toward its closed position.
For purposes of this section, "passenger's or driver's area" means
that part of a motor vehicle which is designed to carry the driver
and passengers, including any interior compartment or space therein.


Meaning your friend can have the knife but he can't take it outside into the public. He may only use it at home, and can not carry it on his person or have it be accessible in a car. So the gist of the use is a switchblade is a Home Defense weapon.

the punishments are for possession not ownership.

[lioneaglegriffin]

To be honest, Im really not sure. What is and what isnt considered interstate commerce is really above my head. I would think an actual lawyer would have to look into that. Im not sure if a CA resident going to AZ, buying one and coming back would be or not (though I kinda assume it is).

Ill bet your friend would be able to get away with it if he was a resident of that other state... and as was noted, importation isnt banned apparently.

As for blade length, I would just assume it is handle to tip. There was that case with the Leatherman on school grounds (cant remember the name of the case right now), I would assume that precedent would be used in most knife cases.

People v Rosalio S. 41 Cal Rptr.2d 534 deals with a leatherman and the 2.5" school limit, finding the leatherman illegal because blades are legally measured from tip to handle, not just along the sharpened edge

[tyrist]

I was friends with a retired British special forces knife-fighting instructor. He said that 2 inches was enough to kill anyone anytime, longer just meant easier.

2 inches can slice the neck and kill you...however 2 inches is too short to hit any vital organs in the torso.

[lioneaglegriffin]

2 inches can slice the neck and kill you...however 2 inches is too short to hit any vital organs in the torso.

you can go for the brain stem too.

[bohoki]

http://pweb.netcom.com/~brlevine/ca.txt

Switchblades


653k. Every person who possesses in the passenger's or driver's
area of any motor vehicle in any public place or place open to the
public, carries upon his or her person, and every person who sells,
offers for sale, exposes for sale, loans, transfers, or gives to any
other person a switchblade knife having a blade two or more inches in
length is guilty of a misdemeanor.
For the purposes of this section, "switchblade knife" means a
knife having the appearance of a pocketknife and includes a
spring-blade knife, snap-blade knife, gravity knife or any other
similar type knife, the blade or blades of which are two or more
inches in length and which can be released automatically by a flick
of a button, pressure on the handle, flip of the wrist or other
mechanical device, or is released by the weight of the blade or by
any type of mechanism whatsoever. "Switchblade knife" does not
include a knife that opens with one hand utilizing thumb pressure
applied solely to the blade of the knife or a thumb stud attached to
the blade, provided that the knife has a detent or other mechanism
that provides resistance that must be overcome in opening the blade,
or that biases the blade back toward its closed position.
For purposes of this section, "passenger's or driver's area" means
that part of a motor vehicle which is designed to carry the driver
and passengers, including any interior compartment or space therein.


Meaning your friend can have the knife but he can't take it outside into the public. He may only use it at home, and can not carry it on his person or have it be accessible in a car. So the gist of the use is a switchblade is a Home Defense weapon.

the punishments are for possession not ownership.

didn't they have an exception in the law for persons with one arm
i swear i read that in some lawbook in 1993

[Mulay El Raisuli]

Im not sure if this should go in here or not, but I figure knives are "arms" so might as well put it here. Feel free to move it if should be.


To my mind, this is a suitable subject for the forum. While firearms are the main subject here, The "Right to Keep & Bear Arms" isn't limited to guns. So, while the main effort will be to un-infringe guns, my hope is to have the 2nd re-applied to ALL arms. Like switchblades, swords, sword canes, brass knuckles, etc.

The Raisuli

[CaliforniaCarry]

didn't they have an exception in the law for persons with one arm
i swear i read that in some lawbook in 1993

Yep, but it's federal. 15USC1244 (http://frwebgate3.access.gpo.gov/cgi-bin/TEXTgate.cgi?WAISdocID=84119931694+0+1+0&WAISaction=retrieve) contains the following exception:

(4) the possession, and transportation upon his person, of any
switchblade knife with a blade three inches or less in length by any
individual who has only one arm.

[ivsamhell]

these are nice.

http://www.uniqueblade.com/catalog/Leverletto_stilettos-22-1.html

[CaliforniaCarry]

Anybody else care to chime in on the interstate commerce issue?

I know almost nothing of interstate commerce issues, and I'm really interested to know at what point one has "introduced" something into interstate commerce.

[lioneaglegriffin]

Anybody else care to chime in on the interstate commerce issue?

I know almost nothing of interstate commerce issues, and I'm really interested to know at what point one has "introduced" something into interstate commerce.

if you bring a long auto into the state you cannot sell it. nor can you have one shipped to you from another state per federal law. The only form of importation is personal say you go to nevada and you buy one and you bring it back provided its not accessable in your car or on your person while going thru airport security. you get it home and it stays there basically. im not even sure of the proper way to transport a long automatic knife, maybe in a locked bag, or box i would assume.

[tyrist]

didn't they have an exception in the law for persons with one arm
i swear i read that in some lawbook in 1993

correct a one armed man can have a switchblade.

[Stubby]

For once having one arm is a good thing!!:rofl2: