Powder for both .308 and .223?

[Donut]

In reading all the manufacturer's descriptions, it seems like there are few powders that say they are good for both. But according to the Sierra Manual, Ramshot TAC would work well for all my applications. I tried to crosss reference the Lee Manual, but no mention of the TAC.

The .223 loads will be for a Siaga and an AR, both 16 inch barrels - so 55gr plinking ammo and probably a little more accurate 77gr stuff now and then (Only for the AR).

The .308 loads will be for a 22-inch bbl bolt-action, using 168 and 175 SMKs.

I really don't know much about how to choose a powder, but is the TAC any good? Is there something better for what I'm wanting to reload?

[freakshow10mm]

I run Varget in all my rifles.

[bruceflinch]

4064 for both/very similar to Varget

[buffybuster]

You can use Ramshot TAC in both 223 & 308. It's a fine ball powder and meters very well. If you're going to run heavy .223 then Varget is a better choice. There's not too much data on RS powders since they are relatively new. Check their website for data.

[Teletiger7]

I recently worked up some loads with varget in both .308 and .223. I really like it for .308. It also worked well for .223, depending on what you wanna do, but I found that I had to almost fill up the case(27+ grains) to even get close to normal velocities for a 55gr .223 blasting load. It worked well with 69gr SMKs.

[Donut]

Here's my line of thinking, and like I said, I don't know squat, so if I'm way off base, let me know...

For the 55gr .223, @ 3000fps VARGET is at a max loading, while TAC is one step above minimum @ 3000fps (M193-spec is 3100 out of a 20in BBL, right?)

For the 77gr, Varget max load is at 2550 and TAC's starting load is at 2500 and max load at 2750.

For 168gr .308 Varget has a wider range than the TAC (2400-2700fps) while the TAC's range is 2500-2700 fps.

For 175gr, Varget maxes at 2500, while the TAC maxes at 2600fps



Now, I'm thinking, those aren't extreme barrel-burning velocities (are they? All my barrels are 4 inches shorter than the test bbls, oddly enough) and that more velocity is more accurate - if all other things are equal?

Is that a sane line of thought, or am I missing something important?

[kurac]

If you barrels are shorter than you will notice more of a velocity drop with slower burning powders vs. faster burning powders.

Have you looked into Winchester's 748?

[Teletiger7]

Higher velocity does not necessarily mean higher accuracy for your rifle. It depends on your rifle and your barrel. If you chrono and shoot for groups you will find some charges/velocities that are more accurate than others. Sometimes a slower load is more accurate. Sometimes you will have a slow load that is accurate and then after testing faster and faster loads you'll find another one that is considerably faster to also be accurate but there may be a gap in the middle of velocities that give you worse performance out of your barrel.

[jandmtv]

I use TAC for my .223 plinking rounds, 24.5gr TAC under 55gr Hornady FMJBT works very well. It will work for 308 also. Plus it is cheaper than other powders.

[NRAhighpowershooter]

Here's my line of thinking, and like I said, I don't know squat, so if I'm way off base, let me know...
For 175gr, Varget maxes at 2500, while the TAC maxes at 2600fps.



Actually with the 175gr SMK's and Varget you can easily get 2650fps

for 600yds you need 2550fps and that can be achieved with 42.5gr Varget and for 1K yds you need 2650fps and that can be done with 44.0gr -45.0gr Varget(depending on rifle) BUT work up slowly!!!

[pottymouth310]

I run Varget in all my rifles.

+1 Can't go wrong with the Varget

[jandmtv]

I can't stand Vargay, my AR's and my Remmy 700 hate Vargay with a passion. All of my rifles seem to shoot better with RL15.

[lazuris]

varget is great for 223 but meters poorly, better to use a digital dispenser. I find RL15 is better for 308 than varget with the 168g stuff. The one power idea works more for pistol than rifle. Don't be cheap just get one of each.

Also i don't recomend trying to beat your rifle up. You want to push past 3000fps why? Remember as a rule of thumb fps greater than 3000 starts increased barrel wear. It sounds like you have a 1:7 twist so i'd slow it down a bit and push the bigger stuff. Besides you only have a 16" barrel its gonna be hard to reach 3000fps with a carbine length barrel.

[buffybuster]

In my experience, R15 is too slow for use in .223 with 55gr bullets. You run out of case capacity.

For dual use (.223 & .308) Varget or IMR4895/H4895 would work well. TAC will also work but doesn't seem as accurate as the extruded powders (varget, 4895). If you're looking for nice blasting ammo then TAC, W748 or BLC-2 would be fine. Is there any reason that want 3000fps for your .223 loads, other than seeing those zeros? Nothing wrong with 2900fps. With the .308, any load that gives over 2600fps with 168/175gr will suffice.

[Jicko]

I really don't know much about how to choose a powder, but is the TAC any good? Is there something better for what I'm wanting to reload?

I did EXTENSIVE research on this exact topic including getting a lb of many different powders and test them out (including Varget, RL15, VV, TAC, etc etc...)

For 77gr 223 and 175gr SMK .308, RL15 and Varget seems to be the winner.

PS. FYI, Ramshot TAC is dirty!!! (as compare to RL15 and Varget); and also the ES and accuracy suffers for TAC. Lastly TAC is quite temperature sensitive, so MV varies quite a bit, even between morning and afternoon....

[Solidmch]

I run Varget in all my rifles.

me too

[Ground Loop]

I run H335 in my .223 55gr loads, and also my .308 light-duty ammo. It meters wonderfully, especially in the Dillon.

I've gone back and forth with Varget in .308. I know it's supposed to be The Bomb, but I'm getting almost identical results with H335. Varget meters for crap too.. I have to weigh each load. H335 with a rotary doser is always within .1gr.

[rayra]

Guessing the OP doesn't own a reloading manual. Mine has plenty of powders listed as suitable for both.


/been using 3031 myself for Garand .30-06 and .223. But like R15 it's too bulky for more than a low-end charge to fit in the case.

[thmpr]

Varget

[Pryde]

IMO Varget is only good if you are gonna handload your rounds. If you are running a progressive press (which you damn well should if you are reloading .223) you won't be able to throw good consistent charges out of Varget. Varget may be accurate for both rounds but for me its not worth the time to measure out each freakin charge and decrease the speed of my reloading by 300%.

If you are gonna be reloading on a progressive and you need a powder that will meter well for mass production that works for .223, I would suggest WCC846 or its commercial equivalents BLC-2 or Win748.

[jdberger]

3031 is pretty nice for both. It isn't the greatest mass production powder though. Sometimes it meters funny through my Dillon.

[Donut]

In my experience, R15 is too slow for use in .223 with 55gr bullets. You run out of case capacity.

For dual use (.223 & .308) Varget or IMR4895/H4895 would work well. TAC will also work but doesn't seem as accurate as the extruded powders (varget, 4895). If you're looking for nice blasting ammo then TAC, W748 or BLC-2 would be fine. Is there any reason that want 3000fps for your .223 loads, other than seeing those zeros? Nothing wrong with 2900fps. With the .308, any load that gives over 2600fps with 168/175gr will suffice.

Only reason I said 3000+fps is because that's what all the M193-spec stuff I have lists velocity as, out of a 20-inch bbl.

I did EXTENSIVE research on this exact topic including getting a lb of many different powders and test them out (including Varget, RL15, VV, TAC, etc etc...)

For 77gr 223 and 175gr SMK .308, RL15 and Varget seems to be the winner.

PS. FYI, Ramshot TAC is dirty!!! (as compare to RL15 and Varget); and also the ES and accuracy suffers for TAC. Lastly TAC is quite temperature sensitive, so MV varies quite a bit, even between morning and afternoon....

Awesome - exactly the kind of info I was looking for on TAC. I guess I'll start out with Varget and see how that works out.

Guessing the OP doesn't own a reloading manual. Mine has plenty of powders listed as suitable for both.


/been using 3031 myself for Garand .30-06 and .223. But like R15 it's too bulky for more than a low-end charge to fit in the case.


I'm guessing you only read my thread title, since I quoted data straight out of the Sierra manual. ;)

[GW]

IMR 4895!