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View Full Version : I am uncomfortable with Sig single-shot pistol conversions


bwiese
11-20-2008, 10:16 AM
I am uncomfortable with Sig single-shot pistol conversions.

(If you have to ask 'which pistol', it doesn't apply to you and don't ask; it will be obvious to those thinking.)

I'm not gonna go into further details to avoid tilting hand.

If problems ensue they're readily defendable, but it's suboptimal situation.

If you're thinking of one, hold off.

People got all gun-horny - and improperly extrapolated these conversions from the AR single-shot pistol plan, which was carefully thought out for maximal compliance.

Some people just don't friggin' think, dammit.

Adonlude
11-20-2008, 12:37 PM
So where does the difference lie btw the Sig and AR conversion?

stphnman20
11-20-2008, 12:40 PM
People got all gun horny

Some people just don't friggin' think, dammit.
Tell me about it.. I hate seeing those posts too!!

adamsreeftank
11-20-2008, 12:57 PM
Do your concerns apply to AK single shot pistols as well?

ptoguy2002
11-20-2008, 1:00 PM
If I am not mistaken, or correct me if I'm wrong:
An AR pistol starts life as a virgin receiver and is built in to a single shot pistol from the get go, by means of a bob sled mag and no gas tube. The action must be manually manipulated to chamber and eject casing, just like any other (real) single shot pistol. After its dros'd, you can semi auto it.

The sig pistol start life as a semi auto pistol, and how they disable the gas system so it won't recoil and eject a round, or otherwise make it into a single shot, I don't know. I think that might be what Bill is getting at.....

On a sig, the upper is the receiver too, not like an AR.

hawk1
11-20-2008, 1:05 PM
If I am not mistaken, or correct me if I'm wrong:
An AR pistol starts life as a virgin receiver and is built in to a single shot pistol from the get go, by means of a bob sled mag and no gas tube. The action must be manually manipulated to chamber and eject casing, just like any other (real) single shot pistol. After its dros'd, you can semi auto it.

The sig pistol start life as a semi auto pistol, and how they disable the gas system so it won't recoil and eject a round, or otherwise make it into a single shot, I don't know. I think that might be what Bill is getting at.....

On a sig, the upper is the receiver too, not like an AR.

Remember also, disabling the gas system is not mandatory. Only an additional precaution.

EBR Works
11-20-2008, 1:06 PM
So, does this concern apply to AK pistols purchased out of state and shipped to an intermediary for single shot conversion prior to shipment to Cali?

bwiese
11-20-2008, 1:13 PM
Remember also, disabling the gas system is not mandatory. Only an additional precaution.

Um, no.

I believe that it's near mandatory to remove "semiautoness" and not have it risk being regarded as a 'broken' semiauto. I think you want far more clear delineation as to its S/S status than just a sled.

Think about what happens in a police evidence locker.

This single-shot pistol crap is starting to go sideways. People aren't following recipes that have been carefully thought out and have overextrapolated from the AR situation.

At least the good folks sending in S/S AR pistols are blocking gas port with 1/2" of gas tube installed upside down.

bwiese
11-20-2008, 1:18 PM
So, does this concern apply to AK pistols purchased out of state and shipped to an intermediary for single shot conversion prior to shipment to Cali?

I don't see why people can't get the friggin' general concept thru extrapolation./

Have the damned gun away from semiauto status as much as possible and remove major semi componentry from gun and block gas port. How you block an AK with various designs I dunno, smart AK people can think that one up.

Remember, the gun has to
(1) be a single shot (use a maglocked sled)
(2) work and be useful (i.e, not be nonworking parts) as an S/S pistol;
(3) be safe to shoot (no hot gas on your hands thus blocked gas port);
(4) should not have useless semiauto hardware on it.

ptoguy2002
11-20-2008, 1:27 PM
So, does this concern apply to AK pistols purchased out of state and shipped to an intermediary for single shot conversion prior to shipment to Cali?

I would think that Bill's concerns apply to pretty much everything.

How do you convert a semi auto pistol, whether its AK or Sig, to single shot?
I understand how it'd be done on an AR with the gas tube, but you can't really do that on a sig or ak?

hawk1
11-20-2008, 1:30 PM
I would think that Bill's concerns apply to pretty much everything.

How do you convert a semi auto pistol, whether its AK or Sig, to single shot?
I understand how it'd be done on an AR with the gas tube, but you can't really do that on a sig or ak?

It can be done, now I'm hearing the word "permanent" being thrown around...
Go figure...:confused:

grammaton76
11-20-2008, 1:39 PM
First off, for those wondering I'm pretty sure Bill's talking about the Sig 556 pistol, although at first I was thinking of the Sig 250 (very neat modular pistol system)

Either that, or folks were transferring them without the gas system disabled - just a single shot sled. Which would technically still be a single shot pistol, however the AR's are taking a second step and rendering it non semi.

I imagine if this is the case, the 'right answer' would be to rent an utterly mutilated single-shot Sig upper out that's had its gas system permanently nailed. The price would be about double the price of a Sig pistol, and you'd get the mutilated upper plus the normal one. I'm not sure how the gas piston is installed on a Sig, but if you were to unthread it, life should be pretty easy.

...then you'd return the mutilated upper for a refund of 1x the price of a Sig pistol.

The AR pistol stuff started out with the rental of pretty much permanently non-semi-auto uppers, and moved away from it a bit, and I think Bill would like it to move back there.

The big problem with rental is folks who didn't return the rented uppers - I know BSP lost theirs that way. The solution's simple - I'd just charge a high enough purchase price that if the customer doesn't return the rental, I make a profit.

Now, as for the AK's... while you could remove the gas piston, it helps align the bolt carrier. The way my PAR-1 is put together, I would almost go so far as to say that you couldn't really have a working non-semi-auto AK pistol without a gas piston for alignment purposes.

hawk1
11-20-2008, 1:52 PM
Good post grammaton76. The gas valve on the upper can be changed to not allow any gas to vent from the barrel. This is rather simple fix but would require a second "sealed" valve that will not vent onto the piston..

JeffM
11-20-2008, 2:01 PM
Now, as for the AK's... while you could remove the gas piston, it helps align the bolt carrier. The way my PAR-1 is put together, I would almost go so far as to say that you couldn't really have a working non-semi-auto AK pistol without a gas piston for alignment purposes.

If an AK pistol is built from a rifle kit, the gas block is moved to the rear, which places it over a section of barrel that has not been drilled. To convert to semi, one would need to drill the new gas port.

On my flat build, I cut the gas piston, but left enough length that it would extend slightly into the gas block. This leaves enough length to attach the piston head if I ever convert it to semi.

DrunkSkunk
11-20-2008, 2:15 PM
First off, for those wondering I'm pretty sure Bill's talking about the Sig 556 pistol,

It's a purdy gun . . . this is not mines of course ;)

http://i294.photobucket.com/albums/mm116/drunkskunk12/IMG_1835.jpg

artherd
11-20-2008, 2:17 PM
One would want to be very careful here to avoid having something readily restorable to a semi-auto pistol with a magazine outside the grip (an assault weapon.)

This is precautionary - but remember we're dealing not with detachable magazines here (which are defined in statute and recent legislative intent) but with other terms and laws - which are far more vauge and could go either way for you in court very easily

You know me.

You know I am not needlessly risk adverse.

Don't do this. Please.

grammaton76
11-20-2008, 2:25 PM
Good post grammaton76. The gas valve on the upper can be changed to not allow any gas to vent from the barrel. This is rather simple fix but would require a second "sealed" valve that will not vent onto the piston..

Careful with this. The FS2000 will still function in semi with its gas piston's vent piece (a little cap towards the front) filled with a block of aluminum, and it's also a 5.56mm system.

Based on my experiences there, I'd be very cautious about trying this with a gas valve mod.

yellowfin
11-20-2008, 3:58 PM
I can think of a very good way to make any non-revolver pistol single shot, but it'd be too costly to do it unless you could get a run of a thousand or more done.

JeffM
11-20-2008, 4:01 PM
I can think of a very good way to make any non-revolver pistol single shot, but it'd be too costly to do it unless you could get a run of a thousand or more done.

If it's a universal product, I'm sure there are 1k handguns that aren't on the safe list looking for good homes in CA.

yellowfin
11-20-2008, 4:53 PM
It isn't universal, but if you had a large volume of a certain series you could get at an affordable price it would work.

hawk1
11-21-2008, 7:22 AM
Careful with this. The FS2000 will still function in semi with its gas piston's vent piece (a little cap towards the front) filled with a block of aluminum, and it's also a 5.56mm system.

Based on my experiences there, I'd be very cautious about trying this with a gas valve mod.

Cautious? I can test this in a 556 rifle. I have no input concerning the FS2000 and it's gas system, but can try and help add another layer for the Sig.
Guess this is why things are done in smokey dark rooms by certain individuals and the info kept for their own use....:sleeping:

grammaton76
11-24-2008, 10:41 AM
Cautious? I can test this in a 556 rifle. I have no input concerning the FS2000 and it's gas system, but can try and help add another layer for the Sig.
Guess this is why things are done in smokey dark rooms by certain individuals and the info kept for their own use....:sleeping:

The rifle sounds like a perfectly good test environment. I was just saying folks should be careful about relying on an aluminum block working 100% without prior testing.