PDA

View Full Version : Translating for somone to get HSC...


kenjimatic
11-20-2008, 9:01 AM
I've been lurking here on calguns for awhile and I have a legal question to ask. My uncle would like to purchase a handgun but he can't read, write or speak english. I was wondering if I can go with him to a dealer and translate the test for him. My uncle has a hunting saftey certificate and has gone hunting for about 3-4 years(and is a veteran from the Secret War) so he does know how to handle a firearm correctly. He feels the need to purchase a handgun because he only carries a .22 Mag and don't want to encounter a hungry anything while hunting.

Any comments are appreciated

Thanks in advance,
Kenji

JDay
11-20-2008, 9:23 AM
I looked through the HSC site and I cannot find an answer to that, I would think that it would be okay but you should call the DOJ to clarify this. Get it in writing if possible (email) and bring it with you to the FFL when he takes the test.

http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/hscinfo.php

Riodog
11-20-2008, 11:27 AM
I'm not going for that one at all. Who's answers would we really be getting and if the powers that be don't trust people that were born, raised, and speak the langauge here then why would they trust someone that does not speak the language.

Why don't we just spend a few more million that we don't have and have the booklets and tests printed in 150 different languages?
Straw that broke the camels back,
Rio

rivviepop
11-20-2008, 11:39 AM
A gut instinct on my part is that your uncle can pay for a state certified interpreter to accompany him to the FFL to take his HSC test, much like you would for a driving test. The two are not directly related (with a driving test it's required that you read English well enough to understand road signs, etc.) but they would seem awfully familiar.

I would also hazard a guess that in order to purchase the handgun and fill out the DROS, the same state-certified interpreter must be present for him to answer the YES/NO questions about being a convicted felon and so forth.

When calling the DOJ this might be the way to ask the question... (i.e. "Hello, may a state certified interpreter be used by an individual to obtain a HSC and fill out DROS forms at a FFL for a non-English speaking person?")

geeknow
11-20-2008, 11:40 AM
Why don't we just spend a few more million that we don't have and have the booklets and tests printed in 150 different languages?

They do print the test in multiple languages.

Ironchef
11-20-2008, 11:41 AM
What language?

Synergy
11-20-2008, 12:28 PM
It should be like the DMV drivers exam. Its available in 20 or so languages. When I took my test the guy told me the only one he ever saw fail, without studying was using a interpreter.

grammaton76
11-20-2008, 1:19 PM
Secret War? Which one was that?

On a side note, I think you can just call up DOJ and they'll be forced to provide translation services into whatever language you require. I know hospitals are forced to do this.

rivviepop
11-20-2008, 1:31 PM
Secret War? Which one was that?

My guess is the Laos civil war in the 60's & 70's -- it's the only one popularly referred to as the CIA's "Secret War in Laos" for the most part. Given that I would think his uncle speaks Vietnamese.

Librarian
11-20-2008, 2:08 PM
What language?

English and Spanish is all they document on the web site (http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/hscinfo.php).

JDay
11-20-2008, 2:33 PM
My guess is the Laos civil war in the 60's & 70's -- it's the only one popularly referred to as the CIA's "Secret War in Laos" for the most part. Given that I would think his uncle speaks Vietnamese.

Nope, if he was involved in the "Secret War" and is now living here my guess would be that he is Hmong, therefore he would speak one of the dialects of Hmong.

Rob454
11-20-2008, 2:33 PM
My uncle has a hunting saftey certificate and has gone hunting for about 3-4 years(and is a veteran from the Secret War) so he does know how to handle a firearm correctly.

My question is if he doesnt write read or speak english how did he get a hunting safety certificate?

scarry scarney
11-20-2008, 2:37 PM
Sorry, already answered above

dfletcher
11-20-2008, 2:41 PM
The state certified translator makes much sense - seems reasonable to me so far as administering the test in a formal and impartial manner. And of course having another shooter in our state is always welcome. I do have a concern with the practical challenge of this fellow's ability to follow range instructions for example. How would that be overcome? The only solution - aside from learning those commands very quickly and very well - would be to have a family member or someone who speaks the same language accompany him to the range and translate. Best of luck.

Meplat
11-20-2008, 2:49 PM
If that is true and he has a hunter safety certificate and military experience, and can read and write Spanish, their should be no problem. A nine year old with a room temperature IQ can pass that test on common sence alone. No study is needed. :rolleyes:

They do print the test in multiple languages.

rivviepop
11-20-2008, 3:39 PM
And of course having another shooter in our state is always welcome. I do have a concern with the practical challenge of this fellow's ability to follow range instructions for example. How would that be overcome?

Recently at a match I was talking to someone about the World Match taking place in Bali and we got on the subject of range commands; I tend to say "please load and make ready" but the actual rulebook says I guess "make ready" only. The person I talked to pointed out that for many folks at the World Shoot, they don't speak English and in fact do learn the exact words used in the range commands. He also pointed out the hazard of saying any words other than the rules during the course of fire other than strictly dictated in the rulebook, as it may cause a non-English speaker a moment of carelessness as they maybe turn around and wonder what you said. $0.02.

G17GUY
11-20-2008, 4:53 PM
what is this secret war stuff

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/local/247217_hmongvets05.html

fairfaxjim
11-20-2008, 4:56 PM
From the HSC Manual, "Handgun Safety Certificate Test Guidelines
If an HSC test applicant is unable to read, the DOJ Certified Instructor shall administer the test orally. If an HSC Ttest applicant is unable to read English or Spanish, a translator may be used to administer the test orally. The DOJ Certified Instructor must inform the translator that only the language of an HSC test may be interpreted. No further explanation of the questions or answers to the questions may be provided.

Meaning that the actual DOJ certified instructor whose certificate is used to give the test at that location (not a designated employee) can administer a test orally, or instruct the translator. The translator must only translate the questions and possible answers litterally to the applicant without any addditional information. No certified or other qualifications are required for a translator.

Glock22Fan
11-20-2008, 5:00 PM
I know it is a stupid system anyway, but it really is open to abuse if they let a friend or relative translate.

Unless the certified instructor knows the language (in which case an interpreter would not be needed) what is to say that the interpreter isn't telling them the answer instead of the question?

Though, having said that, they let me sit next to my wife when she took hers, with the solitary clerk at the other end of the store dealing with a customer. She didn't need any help, but I could easily have given her some.

Just goes to show, it isn't a "real" test, it's just another hurdle.

fairfaxjim
11-20-2008, 6:20 PM
Just goes to show, it isn't a "real" test, it's just another hurdle.

There you go again - trying to use logic in an illogical arena. It really has nothing to do with safety, it is, as you said, another hurdle designed to make aquiring a handgun harder, and hopefully discouraging someone, somewhere, from going through the motions to buy one.

510dat
11-20-2008, 7:16 PM
it seems to me that if they came here they should be speaking english by now.i don't no if we should have been obligated to ship people over here.after all we tried to help them out.if they didn't want communism in their country then why wouldn't they help fight against it.if they wanted it then of course they would be on the other side.why do we need to keep picking up the pieces? are we going to do the same with iraq or maybe somalia

You really should read this link:

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/local/247217_hmongvets05.html

or this one:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laotian_Civil_War

The Hmong put themselves at huge risk, betting that the Americans would keep their word about backing them against the Vietnamese. They took a tremendous burden off of the US, and did so in a location that politically we couldn't go.

When things went sour, the US pulled out and left most of them to dry, facing a very powerful NVA. Those who were left were typically slaughtered by the Vietnamese, or later, the Pathet Lao (see: The Killing Fields). The lucky ones ended up in Thai refugee camps.

Several years later, following several years of pressure from U.S. conservatives and human rights activists, the U.S. government reversed a long-standing policy of denying immigration rights to Hmong refugees, who had fled Laos for refugee camps in Thailand. In a major victory for the Hmong, tens of thousands of Hmong later were afforded expedited U.S. immigration rights by the U.S. government.[10]

Those that are here certainly earned their stay. Though I do think that they should make an effort to learn English.

Salty
11-20-2008, 7:33 PM
My question is if he doesnt write read or speak english how did he get a hunting safety certificate?


From the DFG Roster of Hunters ED Classes:
http://www.dfg.ca.gov/huntered/classes.aspx

Merced Co., Gepao Lor (209) 628-8169, Hmong and Laos

Madera Co., Jean Mondeau (559) 645-0943, Spanish

Monterey Co., Angel Soto (831) 455-9519, Spanish

One interesting point to make is that in Monterey County the only class in the entire county is in Spanish.

Salty
11-20-2008, 7:36 PM
Recently at a match I was talking to someone about the World Match taking place in Bali and we got on the subject of range commands; I tend to say "please load and make ready" but the actual rulebook says I guess "make ready" only. The person I talked to pointed out that for many folks at the World Shoot, they don't speak English and in fact do learn the exact words used in the range commands. He also pointed out the hazard of saying any words other than the rules during the course of fire other than strictly dictated in the rulebook, as it may cause a non-English speaker a moment of carelessness as they maybe turn around and wonder what you said. $0.02.

Just like getting commands in various Asian languages if you study martial arts. It's easy enough to learn a few simple words and phrases.

Glock22Fan
11-20-2008, 9:06 PM
Just like getting commands in various Asian languages if you study martial arts. It's easy enough to learn a few simple words and phrases.


And the first few phrases they should learn are variations on:

"Police, DROP THAT GUN!"

kenjimatic
12-03-2008, 12:20 PM
Okay, I emailed DOJ right after i read the second post on here and I finally got a call from DOJ. He didn't give his name and I forgot to ask. He told me that it's up to the dealers discretion and that if they(as in DOJ) don't know wouldn't hurt them because he does have a hunting safety certificate.
I dont think that, that was a good thing to tell me but that was what he said..

Yes we are Hmong. My uncle(and a few of my other aunts and uncles) just recently arrived from Thailand about 3-4 years ago and he is a senior(67 years old) so it'll be very hard to learn a totally new language. Most of my aunts and uncles were the last generation who were left in Laos after the war. Most of them came to the US in the early 90's and they all can speak read and write(not fluently but enough to live in the US) english. The last few finally came to the US within the last few years. It was the Hmong people who helped the US soldiers during the Vietnam war which later turned into the Secret war and none of the Hmong people ever got credit for it. The worst part was the US left them for dead and they had to flee into the jungle... As of right now there are still around 100 Hmong people in the jungles of Laos trying to survive the genocide.