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Kingofthehill
11-19-2008, 9:18 PM
Thanks

dfletcher
11-19-2008, 9:41 PM
A PPT - which is the end paperwork result of a consignment - is exempt from the 1 per 30, Los Angeles being the only exception due to some local law which, beyond all my understanding, still survives. You're fine.

Kingofthehill
11-19-2008, 9:56 PM
Thanks

savageevo
11-19-2008, 10:37 PM
you should be fine, I bought a consignment gun and bought a new gun within a month and it came out fine.

Cardinal Sin
11-19-2008, 10:46 PM
From what I understand and experienced, any consignment gun is held for 30 days from the day it is put on consignment to make sure then gun isn't stolen, etc. When you purchase/dros the gun you have to wait the usual 10 days however, If your dros/purchase the gun while it is still in the 30 day consignment hold then you have to wait out the hold and the 10 day period. Now if you did a strait forward PPT then it would be nothing more than a 10 day wait. Now consignment or PPT you still can only purchase one handgun per month. I believe C&R may be a different situation though.

Kingofthehill
11-19-2008, 10:54 PM
Thanks

Cardinal Sin
11-19-2008, 11:03 PM
Just wait the time period to pass. Ask them to hold the other gun until the 30 day per gun period is up and then dros the other.

Kingofthehill
11-19-2008, 11:12 PM
Thanks

redcliff
11-19-2008, 11:27 PM
I"ve bought a number of consignment hanguns at a local ffl. They can run concurrently with a Dros for a new pistol in the dealer's inventory.

As long as they make the correct entries on the DROS for the consignment to show its a PPT and not from the dealer's inventory you have no problem.

rayra
11-19-2008, 11:28 PM
IIRC, PPT / consignment guns are not supposed to be part of the 30-day stricture.

http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/dlrfaqs.php#16G

Is there a maximum number of handguns that a person may purchase?
While no limitation exist for the number of handguns that a person may own, a person is generally limited to making no more than one application to purchase a handgun within any 30 day period. Handgun transactions related to law enforcement, private party transfers, returns to owners, and other specified circumstances are exempt from the one-handgun-per-30-day restriction.

(PC section 12072(a)(9))


(9) (A) No person shall make an application to purchase more than
one pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable of being concealed
upon the person within any 30-day period.
(B) Subparagraph (A) shall not apply to any of the following:
(i) Any law enforcement agency.
(ii) Any agency duly authorized to perform law enforcement duties.

(iii) Any state or local correctional facility.
(iv) Any private security company licensed to do business in
California.
(v) Any person who is properly identified as a full-time paid
peace officer, as defined in Chapter 4.5 (commencing with Section
830) of Title 3 of Part 2, and who is authorized to, and does carry a
firearm during the course and scope of his or her employment as a
peace officer.
(vi) Any motion picture, television, or video production company
or entertainment or theatrical company whose production by its nature
involves the use of a firearm.
(vii) Any person who may, pursuant to Section 12078, claim an
exemption from the waiting period set forth in subdivision (c) of
this section.
(viii) Any transaction conducted through a licensed firearms
dealer pursuant to Section 12082.
(ix) Any person who is licensed as a collector pursuant to Chapter
44 (commencing with Section 921) of Title 18 of the United States
Code and the regulations issued pursuant thereto and who has a
current certificate of eligibility issued to him or her by the
Department of Justice pursuant to Section 12071.
(x) The exchange of a pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable
of being concealed upon the person where the dealer purchased that
firearm from the person seeking the exchange within the 30-day period
immediately preceding the date of exchange or replacement.
(xi) The replacement of a pistol, revolver, or other firearm
capable of being concealed upon the person when the person's pistol,
revolver, or other firearm capable of being concealed upon the person
was lost or stolen, and the person reported that firearm lost or
stolen prior to the completion of the application to purchase to any
local law enforcement agency of the city, county, or city and county
in which he or she resides.
(xii) The return of any pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable
of being concealed upon the person to its owner.


12082 speaks partly to PPT, but says nothing about consignment either way.

rayra
11-19-2008, 11:33 PM
This 4yr-old THR topic has two references to consignment guns not being affected by the 30 day stricture, but no legally citations backing it up.

http://www.thehighroad.org/archive/index.php/t-78886.html

And Turners has been so often wrong the last couple years, it's almost easier to believe that the opposite of what they say is the law.
Which is a damned shame because I've bought a lot of guns from them over the years.

Kingofthehill
11-19-2008, 11:38 PM
Thanks

ke6guj
11-20-2008, 12:17 AM
other thing ive come across while reading around the forums is the mention of "LA County" being a little different.. Any idea if LA County does have different rules opposed to the rest of California?

Thanks again!

JOe

IIRC, there is something regarding LA, may be city or county, not sure, that has its own law that states 1 handgun per 30 days, with no exemptions for PPTs. So, you do need to check on that.

Kingofthehill
11-20-2008, 12:20 AM
Thanks

JDay
11-20-2008, 3:40 AM
Now consignment or PPT you still can only purchase one handgun per month. I believe C&R may be a different situation though.

This is FUD. There is no limit on how many handguns you can purchase each 30 days in a PPT, a consignment sale is a PPT therefore exempt from the one per 30 days limit. With a C&R and a COE you are also exempt from the one handgun per 30 days rule.

JDay
11-20-2008, 3:42 AM
Assuming they are Correct, what is the wost that can happen if i ask them to proceed with the DROS... I lose a few bucks?

JOe

Nothing will happen, the DROS will not be denied. The reason many shops do not know the actual rules on this kind of stuff is because the DOJ has in the past (still?) spread FUD to FFLs in the state.

JDay
11-20-2008, 3:43 AM
Thats whats going on right now.. I left a deposit on the "New" handgun and I pick up the one i bought on "Consignment" this saturday.

3 reasons why im asking...

1- im bored and wondering
2- I want to use it :)
3- If i wait it all out, that means i can purchase it in full December 13th.. then 10 day wait and thats december 23rd... and im gonna be out of town from December 20th to Jan 2nd... and curious if what im doing actually apply's to the 30 day wait rule.

JOe

Just put them both on the same DROS and be done with it.

JDay
11-20-2008, 3:49 AM
IIRC, there is something regarding LA, may be city or county, not sure, that has its own law that states 1 handgun per 30 days, with no exemptions for PPTs. So, you do need to check on that.

State firearms law preempts local regulations. Although I'm not sure if this preempts LA's one handgun per 30 days law, but it does cover licensing.

53701 GC State Preemption of Firearm Regulations (http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/dwcl/53701.php)

Electric Factory
11-20-2008, 6:11 AM
This seemed an appropriate time to bring this one back from the dead... rejuvenator !

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=115549

halifax
11-20-2008, 6:38 AM
From what I understand and experienced, any consignment gun is held for 30 days from the day it is put on consignment to make sure then gun isn't stolen, etc. When you purchase/dros the gun you have to wait the usual 10 days however, If your dros/purchase the gun while it is still in the 30 day consignment hold then you have to wait out the hold and the 10 day period. Now if you did a strait forward PPT then it would be nothing more than a 10 day wait. Now consignment or PPT you still can only purchase one handgun per month. I believe C&R may be a different situation though.

How is this check performed: by DOJ, local PD, FFL?

1064chubbs
11-20-2008, 7:13 AM
You will be fine a couple of months ago I purchased a new gun at turners and the next day I did a ppt at oak tree gun club and while I was there I saw a consignment gun I liked so I DROSed that one also and in 10 days I picked all three of them up.

Cardinal Sin
11-20-2008, 7:39 AM
This is FUD. There is no limit on how many handguns you can purchase each 30 days in a PPT, a consignment sale is a PPT therefore exempt from the one per 30 days limit. With a C&R and a COE you are also exempt from the one handgun per 30 days rule.
I have been corrected, ;)but I don't think it falls under fear, uncertainty or doubt.

How is this check performed: by DOJ, local PD, FFL?
Dont know personally. The numbers may be run through a database.

Kingofthehill
11-20-2008, 7:51 AM
Thanks

JDay
11-20-2008, 7:56 AM
1 Thing that makes me curious... under my DROS from OakTree on the "Consignment" handgun is how they listed the "Transaction Type" as a "Dealer Sale"


That is going to be a problem. http://calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=25298&page=2

You're going to need them to restart the DROS on that handgun. I'm not positive but I believe they need to mark consignment in the exemption box.

X-NewYawker
11-20-2008, 8:02 AM
Sometimes a store will tell you it's a "consignment" and that the seller needs a certain amount of money, so they can't bargain -- but they've booked it into their inventory as their own gun --

Or the guy filled out the DROS wrong

Either way you got 20 some odd days to wait...

Consider yourself lucky. I friend of mine had 12 handguns that had to be DROSSED because the store that was holding them for him lost its FFL -- he had to take them to Kings Gunworks and wait out ONE year to get the guns back (it actually took longer because during the year there were other guns he needed to DROS)

JDay
11-20-2008, 8:11 AM
the store that was holding them for him lost its FFL -- he had to take them to Kings Gunworks and wait out ONE year to get the guns back (it actually took longer because during the year there were other guns he needed to DROS)

Ouch :kest:

Kingofthehill
11-20-2008, 8:15 AM
Thanks

AJAX22
11-20-2008, 8:16 AM
If they did it as a dealer sale then you're stuck waiting the 30 days,

If they had done it properly then you would be exempted from the 1 per 30 wait.

I've purchased two consignment guns at the same time, and purchased a dealer inventory gun, a PPT gun and a separate PPT gun at a different FFL the same day so it can be done..

JDay
11-20-2008, 8:43 AM
Thanks for that link.. there seem's to be some confusion on the matter still.

I think im going to attempt the purchase of the new handgun today.. they just have a deposit and were waiting on the 30 day, suggesting 31 days (wich i was going to do)... Figure its only a few bucks to find out :D

You could always get yourself a C&R FFL and a COE and not have to worry about this in the future.

Anthonysmanifesto
11-20-2008, 8:53 AM
1 Thing that makes me curious... under my DROS from OakTree on the "Consignment" handgun is how they listed the "Transaction Type" as a "Dealer Sale"

http://i34.tinypic.com/j5h4k1.jpg

oops- you are now talking about a different subject in my opinion.

its going to be a dealer sale, with another dealer sale.

thats a 30 day wait my brother.

rayra
11-20-2008, 10:17 AM
1 Thing that makes me curious... under my DROS from OakTree on the "Consignment" handgun is how they listed the "Transaction Type" as a "Dealer Sale"

http://i34.tinypic.com/j5h4k1.jpg

Well that will screw you right there.

Might have been a brain fart on the part of the person filing the DROS, but it's in the system now as a dealer sale so another within 30days will almost certainly fail.

I would be sure to point that out when you return to Oak Tree and tell them how it has inconvenienced you. Verify that it was indeed a consignment deal and should not have been marked as a dealer sale.

ke6guj
11-20-2008, 10:26 AM
State firearms law preempts local regulations. Although I'm not sure if this preempts LA's one handgun per 30 days law, but it does cover licensing.

53701 GC State Preemption of Firearm Regulations (http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/dwcl/53701.php)

I would agree with you that it does sound like a preemption issue. But since I don't live in LA, I haven't taken the time to actually research the law on that matter. And then, it would probably take someone like TMLLP to get it fixed. Maybe this is in the works for after incorporation.

JDay
11-20-2008, 3:09 PM
I would agree with you that it does sound like a preemption issue. But since I don't live in LA, I haven't taken the time to actually research the law on that matter. And then, it would probably take someone like TMLLP to get it fixed. Maybe this is in the works for after incorporation.

This is definitely something that needs to be looked into, I remember when SF passed that handgun ban it wasn't legal because of state preemption.

Kingofthehill
11-20-2008, 5:13 PM
Thanks

ke6guj
11-20-2008, 5:50 PM
I called Oak Tree and they told me ALL of their consignment guns get listed as PPT... That may be the procedure, but does anyone have a copy of a PPT/cosignment DROS? Does the transaction type show as "dealer sale"?

RP1911
11-20-2008, 6:22 PM
From the CA Firearms laws booklet. page 33.

8. SALES, LOANS, AND OTHER TRANSFERS OF FIREARMS
Handgun Purchases Limited to One Per 30-Days
It is unlawful for a person to apply to purchase more than one handgun within any 30-day period.
(Penal Code 12072(a).)
Exceptions
The one-handgun-per-30-day limit does not apply to:
• Any law enforcement agency or agency duly authorized to perform law
enforcement duties.
• Any state or local correctional facility.
• Any private security company licensed to do business in California.
• Any person who is properly identified as a full-time paid peace officer who carries a firearm
during the course and scope of his or her employment as a peace officer.
• Any motion picture, television, or video production company or entertainment or
theatrical company whose production by its nature involves the use of firearms.
• Any person who may, pursuant to Penal Code section 12078, claim an exemption
from the waiting period set forth in Penal Code section 12072.
• Any transaction between private parties conducted through a licensed firearms
dealer.
• Any person who is licensed as a collector pursuant to Chapter 44 (commencing with Section
921) of Title 18 of the United States Code and the regulations issued
pursuant thereto and who has a current certificate of eligibility issued by the
Department of Justice.
• The exchange of a handgun where the dealer purchased that handgun from the
person seeking the exchange within the 30-day period immediately preceding the
date of exchange or replacement.
• The replacement of a handgun that has been reported to law enforcement as lost or
stolen prior to the time of application to purchase.
• The return of any pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable of being concealed upon
the person to its owner.

JDay
11-20-2008, 7:10 PM
I called Oak Tree and they told me ALL of their consignment guns get listed as PPT... SO i decided to try the DROS on the new gun at Turners... figured its worth the $30 lesson... So I will update this thread when i find out.

Thanks for all the help guys.

JOe

They still didn't fill in the exemption box regardless.

Kingofthehill
11-20-2008, 9:19 PM
Thanks

AYEAREFIFTEEN
11-21-2008, 1:59 PM
You could always get yourself a C&R FFL and a COE and not have to worry about this in the future.

Most FFLs do not recognize the C&R/COE exemption to the one handgun every 30 days rule.

ke6guj
11-21-2008, 2:12 PM
Most FFLs do not recognize the C&R/COE exemption to the one handgun every 30 days rule.In multiple cases posted here, the buyer has been able to contact CADOJ and have them inform the FFL about the exemption. In many cases, the FFL is just not aware that the exemption exists, not that they refuse to accept the exemption once informed.

12voltguy
11-22-2008, 7:23 AM
the real question
why buy anything from turners?

Max-the-Silent
11-22-2008, 1:59 PM
Hi, first post... Big fan :p

So on November 12th I bought a handgun at Oak Tree Gun Club. It was a used xd40 on Consignment, so it was IN their glass case... 6 days later I purchased a NEW gun at Turners in Pasadena. They said that the "Consignment" gun at Oak Tree still counts as 1 handgun per 30 day rule.

I know PPT's can be done anytime, but this was consignment.. is that were the law is coming in?

If its not clear im wondering if i still have to wait the 30 to DROS it and then the 10 day on the new one?

Thanks!

JOe

FUD

A consignment gun purchase does not count towards the "one gun a month" nonsense. I've gone through the process so many times myself that I'd have to look through my receipt file to give you an exact number.

"Exceptions
The one-handgun-per-30-day limit does not apply to:

Any law enforcement agency or agency duly authorized to perform law
enforcement duties.

Any state or local correctional facility.

Any private security company licensed to do business in California.

Any person who is properly identified as a full-time paid peace officer who carries a firearm during the course and scope of his or her employment as a peace officer.

Any motion picture, television, or video production company or entertainment or theatrical company whose production by its nature involves the use of firearms.

Any person who may, pursuant to Penal Code section 12078, claim an exemption from the waiting period set forth in Penal Code section 12072.

Any transaction between private parties conducted through a licensed firearms dealer.

Any person who is licensed as a collector pursuant to Chapter 44 (commencing with Section 921) of Title 18 of the United States Code and the regulations issued pursuant thereto and who has a current certificate of eligibility issued by the Department of Justice.

The exchange of a handgun where the dealer purchased that handgun from the person seeking the exchange within the 30-day period immediately preceding the date of exchange or replacement.

The replacement of a handgun that has been reported to law enforcement as lost or stolen prior to the time of application to purchase.

The return of any pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable of being concealed upon the person to its owner.

ke6guj
11-22-2008, 3:50 PM
Hey Max, how bout reading the entire thread before reposting the same info that has been posted multiple times already.

You'd also find out that there may be other issues involved for the OP. Whether or not the intial DROS was properly DROSed as a PPT/Cosignment transaction. If it wasn't, when the second DROS goes in, it may get bounced back as a 1-in-30 violation.

HowardW56
11-22-2008, 3:51 PM
Hi, first post... Big fan :p

So on November 12th I bought a handgun at Oak Tree Gun Club. It was a used xd40 on Consignment, so it was IN their glass case... 6 days later I purchased a NEW gun at Turners in Pasadena. They said that the "Consignment" gun at Oak Tree still counts as 1 handgun per 30 day rule.

I know PPT's can be done anytime, but this was consignment.. is that were the law is coming in?

If its not clear im wondering if i still have to wait the 30 to DROS it and then the 10 day on the new one?

Thanks!

JOe

TURNERS is always confused...

Kingofthehill
11-25-2008, 3:05 PM
Thanks

12voltguy
11-25-2008, 3:07 PM
Well, i just got a call from Turners. Looks like the DROS failed. Oak Tree filled out the paperwork wrong and its not showing as a "Consignment" sale.

SO.... that money's gone and gonna have to wait till December 13th to DROS it again.

JOe


like I said before
why shop there at all?

Kingofthehill
11-25-2008, 3:29 PM
Thanks

ke6guj
11-25-2008, 3:43 PM
So now you need to complain to OakTree that they did the cosignment DROS wrong and it cost you $$ for a failed DROS, and that they technically did cause you to commit a crime (infraction with a possible $50 fine for first offense). However, I have not heard of this beeing enforced.


12072(5)(A) A first violation of paragraph (9) of subdivision (a) is an infraction punishable by a fine of fifty dollars ($50).
(B) A second violation of paragraph (9) of subdivision (a) is an infraction punishable by a fine of one hundred dollars ($100).
(C) A third or subsequent violation of paragraph (9) of subdivision (a) is a misdemeanor.
(D) For purposes of this paragraph each application to purchase a pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable of being concealed upon the person in violation of paragraph (9) of subdivision (a) shall be deemed a separate offense.

Kingofthehill
11-25-2008, 3:49 PM
Thanks

nick
11-25-2008, 4:03 PM
From what I understand and experienced, any consignment gun is held for 30 days from the day it is put on consignment to make sure then gun isn't stolen, etc. When you purchase/dros the gun you have to wait the usual 10 days however, If your dros/purchase the gun while it is still in the 30 day consignment hold then you have to wait out the hold and the 10 day period. Now if you did a strait forward PPT then it would be nothing more than a 10 day wait. Now consignment or PPT you still can only purchase one handgun per month. I believe C&R may be a different situation though.


Not so, PPTs are exempt from the 1 handgun per 30 days rule, and consignments are essentially PPTs.

nick
11-25-2008, 5:24 PM
IIRC, there is something regarding LA, may be city or county, not sure, that has its own law that states 1 handgun per 30 days, with no exemptions for PPTs. So, you do need to check on that.

That Turners is in Pasadena, and there's no such law in L.A. County. Must be the City.

hill billy
11-25-2008, 7:01 PM
This is the third time in as many months that I have heard of this happening at Oak tree. Maybe some education is in order.

Kingofthehill
11-26-2008, 11:07 AM
Thanks

lcrken
11-26-2008, 8:33 PM
I went through this with the Turners in Reseda earlier this year. Except for Los Angeles County, private party transfers don't count towards the 1 per month rule. Unfortunately, LA has it's own rules. I had recently purchased a S&W Model 41 as a private party transfer, handled by Tom at "A Place to Shoot", and a week later I went to Turners to buy one of the German P6 Sigs they were selling. I thought I would be okay because the only gun I had bought in the last month was the Smith, but I mentioned it to the sales guy anyhow. He said if they sent the DROS in, LA would cancel it for sure, and I'd have to wait and pay the DROS fee again when 30 days were up. He said this happened with them a lot, and they were careful to explain the LA law to buyers. I waited for the 30 days to expire, and then did the paperwork and waited another 10 days. Finally got the Sig with no problem.

hill billy
11-27-2008, 4:17 AM
I went through this with the Turners in Reseda earlier this year. Except for Los Angeles County, private party transfers don't count towards the 1 per month rule. Unfortunately, LA has it's own rules. I had recently purchased a S&W Model 41 as a private party transfer, handled by Tom at "A Place to Shoot", and a week later I went to Turners to buy one of the German P6 Sigs they were selling. I thought I would be okay because the only gun I had bought in the last month was the Smith, but I mentioned it to the sales guy anyhow. He said if they sent the DROS in, LA would cancel it for sure, and I'd have to wait and pay the DROS fee again when 30 days were up. He said this happened with them a lot, and they were careful to explain the LA law to buyers. I waited for the 30 days to expire, and then did the paperwork and waited another 10 days. Finally got the Sig with no problem.
I have heard there may be a 1 in 30 day rule in LA CITY but certainly not in LA county. I have purchased three handguns in the past three weeks in LA county.